EU to recommend abolishing DST

The Cush

seamus wrote: »

The proposal here is that all EU countries will stop moving clocks back and forward. It's not that all EU countries will engage in clock harmonisation.

As confirmed in the press release last week

In parallel to the daylight saving time arrangement in the European Union, the Member States apply three different time zones or standard times. The decision on the standard time is a national competence.

Irish Kings

Riskymove wrote: »

but you will have an extra hour of light in the evening for your outdoor work

VinLieger wrote: »

It will only negatively affect them if they refuse to adapt, the number of hours of daylight will still be exactly the same so they should just adjust their days accordingly

I don't think some people understand often difficult and complex outdoor work.
Daylight is much more beneficial earlier in the working day than at the end of the day.

Granted as more and more people are sedentary office drones these days, this becomes less important/known, but optimal infrastructure development and food supply are still important parts of a solid economy.

And before anyone get's their panties in a big twist, I don't care what the clocks do, I'm just trying to explain some of the reasons why the present situation exists in the first place.

Infini

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

No you are incorrect.What is being proposed is that EU countries will be on GMT+1 all year round from March 2021 onwards. If each member country agrees to this DST will be the standard time all year round.

Well im Not in favour of permenant DST. Would like them to abandon it outright as in GMT year round not permenant "Summer time".

facehugger99

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It seems to me that as Seamus says the bright morningers (like me) are firmly in a minority.
Sending groggy kids out to school, cycling etc, in the dark is absolutely reckless and irresponsible. At least in the evenings they will be more alert and as I said earlier the dark evenings don't last long,

Nor will the dark mornings you're complaining about.

Riskymove

Latest from EU

http://www.thejournal.ie/clock-changing-must-stop-european-commission-want-to-abolish-seasonal-clock-changes-4231600-Sep2018/

Riskymove

Irish Kings wrote: »

Daylight is much more beneficial earlier in the working day than at the end of the day.

why is this? (honest question)

At deepest winter we get what?, 7 hours of light

if this is 10-5 rather than 9-4 what is the big difference? Can outdoor workers not work from 10 instead of 9?

Irish Kings

Riskymove wrote: »

why is this? (honest question)

At deepest winter we get what?, 7 hours of light

if this is 10-5 rather than 9-4 what is the big difference? Can outdoor workers not work from 10 instead of 9?

Most outdoor workers start a lot earlier than 9, and you really want them to go home even later to their families ?

Riskymove

Irish Kings wrote: »

Most outdoor workers start a lot earlier than 9, and you really want them to go home even later to their families ?

??
Sorry You've lost me

dxhound2005

Riskymove wrote: »

??
Sorry You've lost me

They are trying to keep you in the dark.

Irish Kings

Riskymove wrote: »

??
Sorry You've lost me

they still have to work a full day, and you want them to start later ?

Irish Kings

Irish Kings wrote: »

I don't think some people understand often difficult and complex outdoor work.
Daylight is much more beneficial earlier in the working day than at the end of the day.
.

You only say this as you are obviously a morning person. I work in an office but I worked on the buildings for years while studying and have worked on the farm since I was a child and will be doing so for many years to come and I have been calling for summer time to be adopted all year round long before most. I never started on a building site before 9 (often later) and the first hour or so is just waking up (same as in an office job) much more beneficial to have a bit more light in the afternoon when you are into the full swing of things rather than being half asleep.

From a farming perspective it’s very rarely we start on weekends until after 10am and if checking stock, doing any morning feeding before work etc in the winter it’s going to be dark either way. However especially as the days start to stretch a bit the bit of light in the evenings might allow you to get some stuff done on the farm after work in the evening which would be very helpful.

The sooner the clock changing is scrapped the better.

Irish Kings wrote: »

they still have to work a full day, and you want them to start later ?

So what if they have to start later, many people prefer later starts and finishing later again those who aren’t fond of the morning like myself. Also it doesn’t really make sense if they are starting so early then they are working in the dark as things are anyway so if they choose to keep their early starts that’s their choice but if they start work in the dark now then they can obviously do the work in the dark (or with artificial lighting) thus they can still work in the but of extra morning dark if the clocks changing is scrapped.

If this was voted on I’d expect a massive majority would opt for stick with summer time including people who work outdoors.

Irish Kings

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

You only say this as you are obviously a morning person. I work in an office but I worked on the buildings for years while studying and have worked on the farm since I was a child and will be doing so for many years to come and I have been calling for summer time to be adopted all year round long before most. I never started on a building site before 9 (often later) and the first hour or so is just waking up (same as in an office job) much more beneficial to have a bit more light in the afternoon when you are into the full swing of things rather than being half asleep.

From a farming perspective it’s very rarely we start on weekends until after 10am and if checking stock, doing any morning feeding before work etc in the winter it’s going to be dark either way. However especially as the days start to stretch a bit the bit of light in the evenings might allow you to get some stuff done on the farm after work in the evening which would be very helpful.

The sooner the clock changing is scrapped the better.



So what if they have to start later, many people prefer later starts and finishing later again those who aren’t fond of the morning like myself. Also it doesn’t really make sense if they are starting so early then they are working in the dark as things are anyway so if they choose to keep their early starts that’s their choice but if they start work in the dark now then they can obviously do the work in the dark (or with artificial lighting) thus they can still work in the but of extra morning dark if the clocks changing is scrapped.

If this was voted on I’d expect a massive majority would opt for stick with summer time including people who work outdoors.

Read the post again, especially this bit

Irish Kings wrote: »

And before anyone get's their panties in a big twist, I don't care what the clocks do, I'm just trying to explain some of the reasons why the present situation exists in the first place.

The Cush

Some Q&As on the Commission's proposal to put an end to seasonal clock changes in today's State of the Union 2018 speech

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-5709_en.htm
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-5641_en.htm

The legislative process starts here - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/soteu2018-discontinuing-seasonal-changes-time-directive-639_en.pdf

The commission is proposing to end the changing of clocks next year, 2019. Member states will decide in 2019 their permanent standard time, summertime or wintertime, and notify the commission by April next.

The Commission proposes to stop the bi-annual clock changes in the EU in 2019. This would put an end to the practice of changing the clock forward by one hour in March and backward by one hour in October. In order to avoid any fragmentation in the internal market, Member States will decide whether they want to maintain permanent summer- or wintertime. They will notify the European Commission of their decision. After this, they will no longer able to apply seasonal clock changes. Member States will remain free to decide which time zone to apply to their territories.

Does the Commission propose permanent summertime/wintertime all across the European Union?

No. The European Commission's proposal is about putting an end to seasonal clock changes in a coordinated manner. The decision to apply permanent summer- or wintertime will be taken by each Member State. It is desirable that Member States take the decisions on the standard time that each of them will apply as from 2019 in a concerted manner.

Why can't some Member States continue to apply seasonal clock changes if they wish to do so?

The Commission proposes to put an end to seasonal clock changes for the entire European Union. In other words, Member States will no longer maintain national arrangements of seasonal clock changes. This is to safeguard the proper functioning of the internal market and avoid disruptions by uncoordinated action by Member States. This includes potential disruption to the scheduling of transport operations and the functioning of information and communication systems, higher costs to cross-border trade, or lower productivity for goods and services. A continued harmonised regime – whereby all Member States abolish the bi-annual clock changes – is therefore essential.

How and when would the proposed change be implemented?

To allow for a smooth transition, under the Commission's proposal each Member State would notify by April 2019 whether it intends to apply permanent summer- or wintertime. This should be based on coordination between Member States, possible consultations and assessments at national and European level.

The last mandatory change to summertime would take place on Sunday 31 March 2019. After this, the Member States wishing to permanently switch back to wintertime would still be able to make one last seasonal clock change on Sunday 27 October 2019. Following that date, seasonal changes would no longer be possible.

This timeline is conditional on the European Parliament and the Council adopting the Commission's proposal by March 2019 at the latest.

Niles Crane

The Cush wrote: »

Some Q&As on the Commission's proposal to put an end to seasonal clock changes in today's State of the Union 2018 speech

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-5709_en.htm
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-5641_en.htm

The legislative process starts here - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/soteu2018-discontinuing-seasonal-changes-time-directive-639_en.pdf

The commission is proposing to end the changing of clocks next year, 2019. Member states will decide in 2019 their permanent standard time, summertime or wintertime, and notify the commission by April next.

Have we the right to just leave things as they are.

CruelCoin

Niles Crane wrote: »

Have we the right to just leave things as they are.

"You vill not stop ze eva closa union, ya?"

Short answer, not if the rest of the EU overrules.

bnt

I've occasionally wondered why Ireland follows UK time, when Ireland is about 24-44 minutes behind UK time, geographically. Dublin gets the Sun about 25 minutes behind Greenwich, while Tralee is 39 minutes behind. Logically, Ireland should be in a time zone 1/2h behind the UK's.

So if Ireland was to adopt a fixed summer time zone, equal to BST but 1h ahead of GMT, it would actually mean about 27 minutes extra morning Sun on average: 35 minutes in Dublin, and only about 20 mins in the far West.

Niles Crane

CruelCoin wrote: »

"You vill not stop ze eva closa union, ya?"

Short answer, not if the rest of the EU overrules.

Just as I thought.

Show you the joke the EU has become because it's been put out there that each individual member gets to decide but I suppose a bit like the Lisbon treaty we only get to decide if we happen to agree with what the EU wants.

This could cause me to have to leave my job as I could mean being forced to work 10-6 rather than 9-5.

Cork Boy 53

Niles Crane wrote: »

Have we the right to just leave things as they are.

If you mean keep changing the clocks twice a year, it seems the answer is no.

Doctor Jimbob

Niles Crane wrote: »

Just as I thought.

Show you the joke the EU has become because it's been put out there that each individual member gets to decide but I suppose a bit like the Lisbon treaty we only get to decide if we happen to agree with what the EU wants.

This could cause me to have to leave my job as I could mean being forced to work 10-6 rather than 9-5.

Sounds like the issue here is your employer more than the EU.

Niles Crane

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Sounds like the issue here is your employer more than the EU.

It is aswell.

But each country should be allowed to decide for itself whether it wants to keep things as they are or change with the new rules.

Infini

CruelCoin wrote: »

"You vill not stop ze eva closa union, ya?"

Short answer, not if the rest of the EU overrules.

What they're specifically looking to do is end the practise of changing times twice a year BUT doing so in a coordinated manor. State's basically decide to pick a timezone to stay in and this applies from the end of next year.

What I don't want myself is permanent Summertime if were to abandon the practise it would be better to be on GMT time permenantly or have our own proper IST which would be 30m behind GMT average. That would mean midday and midnight are the true one's and not off by an hour.

The + side would be there would be no dark morning's in the winter. The downside would be we would have sunrise at 3am in the summer though that being said noone will notice if they're asleep.

Niles Crane

Niles Crane wrote: »

Just as I thought.

Show you the joke the EU has become because it's been put out there that each individual member gets to decide but I suppose a bit like the Lisbon treaty we only get to decide if we happen to agree with what the EU wants.

This could cause me to have to leave my job as I could mean being forced to work 10-6 rather than 9-5.

What’s wrong with working 10-6? It’s much nicer working 10-6 than 9-5. As I’m flexible at work and I’d always drift much more towards starting later and finishing later as I just prefer sleeping in the morning and working a little later in the evening. It also means I leave the house at or after 9 thus miss all the traffic and can get from home to my city Centre (not Dublin) parking spot in about 15 to 20 mins rather than anything from 25 to 40mins leaving at say 8:20.

I really hope this happens (permenant summer time that is, no way should we have permenant winter time) as I have been calling for it for years. I’d it goes to a vote it will fly through as most will be in favor or else hopefully the eu just forces it through. If It’s left up to the gov to make a decision who knows what will happen.

Niles Crane

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

What’s wrong with working 10-6? It’s much nicer working 10-6 than 9-5. As I’m flexible at work and I’d always drift much more towards staying later and finishing later as I just prefer sleeping in the morning and working a little later in the evening. It also means I leave the house at or after 9 thus miss all the traffic and can get from home to my city Centre (not Dublin) parking spot in about 15 to 20 mins rather than anything from 25 to 40mins leaving at say 8:20.

I really hope this happens (permenant summer time that is, no way should we have permenant winter time) as I have been calling for it for years. I’d it goes to a vote it will fly through as most will be in favor or else hopefully the eu just forces it through. If It’s left up to the gov to make a decision who knows what will happen.

I live in the midlands work in Dublin.

It would mean getting home after 8pm each night.

I won't beenfit from the supposed extra daylight we are going to get either.

I have a feeling most people would rather start work earlier and finish earlier than the other way around, thats certainly how my colleagues feel anyway.

EdgeCase

I'd say it would actually make more of a difference in the Nordic region where they're further north than here but also tend to start work at 8am, rather than 9.

I think in an Irish context, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. The winter days are short enough that it's going to be fairly dark one way or the other in the morning anyway.

VinLieger

All i know is I would definitely keep our sunny summer evenings, we already have dark winter mornings

EdgeCase

VinLieger wrote: »

All i know is I would definitely keep our sunny summer evenings, we already have dark winter mornings

Even with GMT in summer, you'd have sunset on 21st June in Dublin at 9pm and dusky conditions for a couple of hours after that.

We have hugely long days in the summer due to the latitude rather than the clock adjustments.

seamus

Niles Crane wrote: »

Have we the right to just leave things as they are.

Yes, we do.

VinLieger

EdgeCase wrote: »

Even with GMT in summer, you'd have sunset on 21st June in Dublin at 9pm and dusky conditions for a couple of hours after that.

We have hugely long days in the summer due to the latitude rather than the clock adjustments.

And the sun would rise at 4:00 am wheres the sense in that?

Niles Crane

Niles Crane wrote: »

I have a feeling most people would rather start work earlier and finish earlier than the other way around, thats certainly how my colleagues feel anyway.

Not sure I’d agree with that as I said I have very flexible working hours as do the others in my office, the place opens at 7am and closes at 12 midnight and you will find more people in the office at 10pm than 8am. The odd time I’m in a little before 9 for a 9am call (though I often just take these early calls from home rather than have to get up) the place is very quiet at 9am, it’s really only from about 9:15 or so people start to filter in up until about 10am or a bit after.

VinLieger

Simply put if we choose to stick with winter time we are choosing to lose an hour of daylight during the summer, if we stick with summer time, we keep the same number of hours of daylight during the winter it just shifts forward a bit later in the day.

Why would we choose to lose an hour of daylight for 7 months?