Two time zones in Ireland after Brexit

FTA69

Patww79 wrote: »

We're not "the Republic", we're Ireland.

Why is it so important to you to vociferously deny the concept of Irishness to Irish people who happen to be from north of a border they had no hand on creating? Like is it some sort of personal validation or what?

Ireland was one country that was divided by the dictat of a British government, a border that split farms, communities and villages. Scotland is a part of the UK, it's still Scotland. Tyrone and Fermanagh are also part of the UK, they're still in Ireland.

I never understood this seething Free Statism that some people have.

FishOnABike

Infini wrote: »

Honestly I would prefer they just get rid of Summer Time and just leave the clock's unchanged on GMT. Midday/Midnight should actually mean that and not be an hour ahead of what it actually is. If mainland Europe wants to be 1hr ahead all year round that's fine by me but not here.

Shouldn't we be half an hour behind GMT then?

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Why is it so important to you to vociferously deny the concept of Irishness to Irish people who happen to be from north of a border they had no hand on creating? Like is it some sort of personal validation or what?

Ireland was one country that was divided by the dictat of a British government, a border that split farms, communities and villages. Scotland is a part of the UK, it's still Scotland. Tyrone and Fermanagh are also part of the UK, they're still in Ireland.

I never understood this seething Free Statism that some people have.

Pat posts a fair bit in the GAA forum so I'm surprised he hasn't advocated (yet) that the All-Ireland championships be restricted to Southern counties only.

OldMrBrennan83

Deleted User wrote: »

Pat posts a fair bit in the GAA forum so I'm surprised he hasn't advocated (yet) that the All-Ireland championships be restricted to Southern counties only.

No comment.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

Pat posts a fair bit in the GAA forum so I'm surprised he hasn't advocated (yet) that the All-Ireland championships be restricted to Southern counties only.

There's always one po-faced idiot stomping their feet about this kind of stuff thankfully nobody tends to take them seriously.

OldMrBrennan83

FTA69 wrote: »

There's always one po-faced idiot stomping their feet about this kind of stuff thankfully nobody tends to take them seriously.

Yeah just let everyone be wrong instead. So long as it fits in with some romantic idealism.

FTA69

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah just let everyone be wrong instead. So long as it fits in with some romantic idealism.

Ha ha next all-Ireland final there with Tyrone in it you can stage a one-man protest Pat. You can shout at the Tyrone fans for standing for their anthem and flag and maybe you can tell everyone who's listening about how the match should be boycotted? Everyone will think you're a great lad, and most importantly, right.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Patww79 wrote: »

We're not "the Republic", we're Ireland.

Either is fine. We all know the republic of Ireland act. I even put the republic of in parentheses so you wouldn’t pollute the thread with more irrelevant cretinous nonsense. We are talking about Ireland the island here. There will be two time zones in Ireland the island. Do we have to keep typing ireland the island so you know that when people say ireland in the context it is meant here it means the island. Or do you not know the islands name.

There will be two time zones on the island.

bobbysands81

Patww79 wrote: »

We're not "the Republic", we're Ireland.

Nope, the Republic is in the name Pat. Keep up.

Ireland also refers to the island which includes our pals in the occupied 6.

DChancer

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Nope, the Republic is in the name Pat. Keep up.

Ireland also refers to the island which includes our pals in the occupied 6.

According to the Constitution the name of this state is Ireland or in the Irish Language Éire.
There are no "occupied 6" this state has 26 counties, the remaining 6 counties on this island form part of the UK because a majority of those living there choose to.

CountingCrows

DChancer wrote: »

the remaining 6 counties on this island form part of the UK because a majority of those living there choose to.

And when exactly did they 'choose' that?

bobbysands81

DChancer wrote: »

According to the Constitution the name of this state is Ireland or in the Irish Language Éire.
There are no "occupied 6" this state has 26 counties, the remaining 6 counties on this island form part of the UK because a majority of those living there choose to.

...and all these people in “Northern Ireland” are as Irish as you or me if they want to be.

According to the constitution there are occupied parts of the island of Ireland as the constitution talks about uniting Ireland through consent.

Demographics and common sense will give us that consent in the very near future.

DChancer

CountingCrows wrote: »

And when exactly did they 'choose' that?

When they voted to accept the Good Friday Agreement.

bobbysands81

DChancer wrote: »

When they voted to accept the Good Friday Agreement.

Are you actually being serious???

bobbysands81

bobbysands81 wrote: »

...and all these people in “Northern Ireland” are as Irish as you or me if they want to be.

According to the constitution there are occupied parts of the island of Ireland as the constitution talks about uniting Ireland through consent.

Demographics and common sense will give us that consent in the very near future.

are there vacant parts of ireland?

if not, then the whole country is occupied.

Berserker

All for two time zones on the island, for kicks and giggles.

FTA69 wrote: »

Ha ha next all-Ireland final there with Tyrone in it you can stage a one-man protest Pat. You can shout at the Tyrone fans for standing for their anthem and flag and maybe you can tell everyone who's listening about how the match should be boycotted? Everyone will think you're a great lad, and most importantly, right.

Doesn't make any difference who is there, Dublin will win it. #GAAExpert

bobbysands81 wrote: »

...and all these people in “Northern Ireland” are as Irish as you or me if they want to be.

Demographics and common sense will give us that consent in the very near future.

And they are also British, if they want to be or Northern Irish, as a good number of the people I know prefer to be. You need a clear majority in a democratic referendum to get that consent. Common sense will never favour your agenda.

bobbysands81

Berserker wrote: »

All for two time zones on the island, for kicks and giggles.



Doesn't make any difference who is there, Dublin will win it. #GAAExpert



And they are also British, if they want to be or Northern Irish, as a good number of the people I know prefer to be. You need a clear majority in a democratic referendum to get that consent. Common sense will never favour your agenda.

Absolutely they’re British. If people in Ireland wish to identify as British I have no issue with that.

The common sense argument will unite the country, it always comes down to money and economics. The economic argument to unite the island will be resoundingly won over the next few years as it will be the clear winner once the debate actually begins.

The democratic will of the people will be listened to, Brexit will ensure 50% +1 person.

Berserker

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Absolutely they’re British. If people in Ireland wish to identify as British I have no issue with that.

The common sense argument will unite the country, it always comes down to money and economics. The economic argument to unite the island will be resoundingly won over the next few years as it will be the clear winner once the debate actually begins.

The democratic will of the people will be listened to, Brexit will ensure 50% +1 person.

At last, someone who is going to present the economic argument for it. Post away, please.

DChancer

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Are you actually being serious???

`Yes.
The voters of Northern Ireland had their say at the ballot box and accepted that N.I. is and will remain part of the U.K. until a majority of voters in N.I. decide otherwise.
It called democracy.
On the same day the voters of this State dropped all territorial claims to the 6 counties in Northern Ireland, replacing the claims with an aspiration to a United Ireland.

bobbysands81

Berserker wrote: »

At last, someone who is going to present the economic argument for it. Post away, please.

A lot of economists are forecasting a contraction in Britain’s finances post-Brexit. Less money in Britain means less money to subvent to an oversea colony such as their one in Ireland... never mind the resulting rise in costs and inevitable recession.

Meanwhile Ireland continues to boom. unionism will turn away from Great Britain and towards Ireland.

Without the debate even properly beginning it looks like it’s already happening - https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-united-ireland-4215779-Sep2018/%3famp=1

DChancer

bobbysands81 wrote: »

A lot of economists are forecasting a contraction in Britain’s finances post-Brexit. Less money in Britain means less money to subvent to an oversea colony such as their one in Ireland... never mind the resulting rise in costs and inevitable recession.

Meanwhile Ireland continues to boom. unionism will turn away from Great Britain and towards Ireland.

Without the debate even properly beginning it looks like it’s already happening - https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/brexit-united-ireland-4215779-Sep2018/%3famp=1

Please grow up with "colony" rubbish.
And as for Ireland booming, we have the 3rd highest National debt per capita in the developed world and can ill afford to take on the basket case that is N.I.

bobbysands81

DChancer wrote: »

Please grow up with "colony" rubbish.
And as for Ireland booming, we have the 3rd highest National debt per capita in the developed world and can ill afford to take on the basket case that is N.I.

It is a colony.

We can afford the north no problem #LoveUlster.

The continued growth in our economy is predicated on more workers as we near full employment. What better way to fill these vacancies than by getting our nearest and dearest friends to fill them?

DChancer

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It is a colony.

We can afford the north no problem #LoveUlster.

The continued growth in our economy is predicated on more workers as we near full employment. What better way to fill these vacancies than by getting our nearest and dearest friends to fill them?

Your knowledge of economics is almost as deficient as your knowledge of history and politics.
Apt username, cowboy economics from a cowboy worshipper.

ectoraige

biko wrote: »

If only there was a way that Ireland could make these decisions on our own without faceless unelected bureaucrats making them for us.

If this would have been possible we could adapt to what is best for the island, not what's best for the continent.

Just a daring thought...

"Faceless unelected bureaucrats." Sigh.

This is a follow-on from a EU-wide public consultation that had 4.6 million respondents, 84% of whom favoured scrapping daylight savings. In Ireland there were over 11,000 responses, and 88% favoured abolition.

The figures are published here.

This came from work carried out by the EU Commissioner for Transport, Violeta Bulc who is Slovenia's representative on the Commissions. Ireland's representative on the Commission is Phil Hogan, with responsibility for Agriculture. Commissioners are nominated by the democratically elected government of their country, and approved by the democratically elected EU parliament.

For daylight savings to actually be abolished across Europe, the democratically elected MEPs in the EU parliament would have to agree to it as would the democratically elected governments of each and every country.

When you hear "EU commision proposal" it means something that could happen if everybody agrees to it.
When you hear "EU commission decision" or "directive" it means something that has been agreed by our democratically elected government, and our democratically elected MEPs.

So grow up and stop with the "faceless bureacrat" nonsense.

ectoraige

yrreg0850 wrote: »

Why do we have to take dictation from the mandrins in Brussles.
You can be sure Theresa may will not take any nonsence from our masters.

Surely it is in our own interest to have the same time zone as the north.

And if the "mandarins" in the UK decides to change without the EU changing, should we change?

bobbysands81

DChancer wrote: »

Your knowledge of economics is almost as deficient as your knowledge of history and politics.
Apt username, cowboy economics from a cowboy worshipper.

Attacking the man is always a sign of losing the argument.

Berserker

bobbysands81 wrote: »

A lot of economists are forecasting a contraction in Britain’s finances post-Brexit. Less money in Britain means less money to subvent to an oversea colony such as their one in Ireland... never mind the resulting rise in costs and inevitable recession.

Meanwhile Ireland continues to boom. unionism will turn away from Great Britain and towards Ireland.

Unionism is as likely to turn away from GB, as Nationalism is to turn away from the RoI. You do know that the RoI will suffer because of Brexit also?

bobbysands81 wrote: »

We can afford the north no problem #LoveUlster.

The continued growth in our economy is predicated on more workers as we near full employment. What better way to fill these vacancies than by getting our nearest and dearest friends to fill them?

How can we afford it when we can't afford to break even at the moment? Much investment is needed in health, housing, education etc to meet the demands of the population at the moment. We are nearing full employment, as you say but we are still in debt up to our eyeballs.

Are you suggesting that the people of NI are going to fill the low paid, temporary jobs that are created during a boom?

Taytoland

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

cfuserkildare

What has this got to do with 2 different Time Zones???

dxhound2005

cfuserkildare wrote: »

What has this got to do with 2 different Time Zones???

Nothing. But even if there were two time zones on the island, I don't see why it would matter. The people of Kentucky, and 11 other "lower 48" States can manage it, so why not us?

http://www.timebie.com/us/kentucky.php

bobbysands81

Taytoland wrote: »

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

Average house prices would fall and cost of healthcare would reduce overnight with a unified country.

Taytoland

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

Average house prices would fall and cost of healthcare would reduce overnight with a unified country.

With astronomical tax rises. How on earth would the cost reduce? It would rise if anything and the pressures on the health service would be enormous and crippling.

ohnonotgmail

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Average house prices would fall and cost of healthcare would reduce overnight with a unified country.

and what will happen to all the civil servants who would be made redundant? they have nearly as many civil servants as we do for an economy a fraction of the size.

HonalD

Back on topic......

Ireland uses “Ireland Standard Time IST” in the summer months according to our statute books. So we’re using a different time at the moment, technically.

Out of interest, did anyone fill out the EU consultation questionnaire on their website for this?

An Claidheamh

Taytoland wrote: »

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

We could afford it a lot easier if loyalists in the 6 counties actually made an effort to work and pay taxes.

So much for the Protestant work ethic. 😉

The Brits have had decades to end the state sponging in the North and have made it even more dependent.

The Dáil and EU will have to oversee its economy's progression into something mimicking a 21st century Western region.
Westminster may pay towards this via their EU tarriffs.

ELM327

Taytoland wrote: »

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

There will be a cut in funding for the North of Ireland either way, as the UK won't be able to afford the yearly subvention.


If you're thinking that the post brexit UK economy would be better positioned to afford the black hole that is the NI budget, compared to the free state, you are mistaken.

I work for a global company and I like the fact we are on UCT. I know in reality the changes would be minor and forgotten about in a year, but being the centre of the world is kind of cool.

CruelCoin

biko wrote: »

If only there was a way that Ireland could make these decisions on our own without faceless unelected bureaucrats making them for us.

If this would have been possible we could adapt to what is best for the island, not what's best for the continent.

Just a daring thought...

The EU brings in the policy, the vast majority of the populace hates it.

The EU proposes scrapping what they themselves brought in and dislike, and now it's whinging about them doing that.

Truth be told you just wanna whinge.

(I do agree with the anti-EU undertone though. The EU can get ****ed.)

Taytoland

ELM327 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The Irish Republic has housing crisis, a health crisis and some think the state can afford to take on Northern Ireland by forking out money they simply don't have. Fantasy stuff.

There will be a cut in funding for the North of Ireland either way, as the UK won't be able to afford the yearly subvention.


If you're thinking that the post brexit UK economy would be better positioned to afford the black hole that is the NI budget, compared to the free state, you are mistaken.

The UK economy is much larger than the ROI's. It is not in our interests to join the Republic of Ireland economically speaking as others have pointed out with civil service and public sector jobs, the currency etc.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Before we go on:

1) The name of the state most of us live in is Ireland.
2) The name of the Island most of us live in is Ireland. This is what we talk about when we say there are two time zones in Ireland. Obviously. Nobody thinks theres going to be two in the Republic of Ireland.
3) The state that is called Ireland can be described as the Republic of Ireland which I just did. Particularly useful to avoid ambiguity between the State and the Island, is officially recognised by the Republic of Ireland Act 1948, and there are official documents that use that title.

Revenue generally use Republic of Ireland, to avoid ambiguity. For instance here:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/contact-us/index.aspx

"If you do not reside in the Republic of Ireland, you can access a list of contact numbers here."

If they said Ireland here people who live in the North but work in the Republic might be confused as what to do.

Now thats sorted, pray continue.

ELM327

Taytoland wrote: »

The UK economy is much larger than the ROI's. It is not in our interests to join the Republic of Ireland economically speaking as others have pointed out with civil service and public sector jobs, the currency etc.

The UK economy yes, it is now.
But in future post brexit years, specific to the north of Ireland, (ie excluding Britain) there will be no entity that can afford the annual subvention that is needed to run the north of ireland in its current state.


Therefore the best option would be economies of scale, reunify the state of Ireland and remove the need for such government subvention at all.


The brits won't be able to afford Narnia when their currency plummets and jobs leave after brexit - particularly if it's a hard brexit.

Taytoland

ELM327 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The UK economy is much larger than the ROI's. It is not in our interests to join the Republic of Ireland economically speaking as others have pointed out with civil service and public sector jobs, the currency etc.

The UK economy yes, it is now.
But in future post brexit years, specific to the north of Ireland, (ie excluding Britain) there will be no entity that can afford the annual subvention that is needed to run the north of ireland in its current state.


Therefore the best option would be economies of scale, reunify the state of Ireland and remove the need for such government subvention at all.


The brits won't be able to afford Narnia when their currency plummets and jobs leave after brexit - particularly if it's a hard brexit.

Evidence of this?

ELM327

Taytoland wrote: »

Evidence of this?

Evidence of what?
The estimated £7bn annual cost to the UK exchequer?
The £14k per person cost?
That is a matter of public record.


The fact that the british economy will contract after brexit is based on pretty much every rational economist's viewpoint. Look at all the jobs that have already left. I work at a multinational in the free state and we have a "BCP plan" in place regarding our UK offices in the case of a hard brexit, as I'm sure do many other international companies currently based in the UK as part of the EU. The UK does not have enough indigenous economy to continue the current standard of living.


When times are tough you cut off the cancer to keep the rest of the body alive, and, while I'm not calling the north of Ireland a cancer, I'm calling it a black hole where 30% of the UK budget deficit went in 2007 - which is the most recent figure I can find on the subject.

bobbysands81

Taytoland wrote: »

The UK economy is much larger than the ROI's. It is not in our interests to join the Republic of Ireland economically speaking as others have pointed out with civil service and public sector jobs, the currency etc.

Demographics is dictating that the numbers gap between the two communities is closing fast and will some time soon show a nationalist majority. Brexit will ensure that the argument turns from a religious headcount to an economic argument. Demographics show that even when being fed directly from the teet that unionists have been screwed over by their masters within and without the north.

It’s end game for unionism with Brexit. Soft unionists are already showing strong signs of siding with the EU/Ireland. Young people, regardless of background, are far more likely to pick a vibrant, confident, forward thinking, outward looking country with fantastic opportunity than one run by outdated, closed, regressive, fundamentalist, conservative Christian political dinosaurs largely reliant on a public sector that has spiraled out of control.

Unionism is afraid to look to the future and as a result is rooted in the past.

Unionists intelligent enough to look to the future would do worse than to start trying to frame the debate of what a United Ireland would look like to ensure the continuance of their culture through reform of flags, institutions, political alliances etc...

We need to discuss this shared future and we need to ensure that unionists are warmly welcomed in it.

Taytoland

ELM327 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Evidence of this?

Evidence of what?
The estimated £7bn annual cost to the UK exchequer?
The £14k per person cost?
That is a matter of public record.


The fact that the british economy will contract after brexit is based on pretty much every rational economist's viewpoint. Look at all the jobs that have already left. I work at a multinational in the free state and we have a "BCP plan" in place regarding our UK offices in the case of a hard brexit, as I'm sure do many other international companies currently based in the UK as part of the EU. The UK does not have enough indigenous economy to continue  the current standard of living.


When times are tough you cut off the cancer to keep the rest of the body alive, and, while I'm not calling the north of Ireland a cancer, I'm calling it a black hole where 30% of the UK budget deficit went in 2007 - which is the most recent figure I can find on the subject.

It's more than 7 billion, so you are wrong with that for starters. The Northern Ireland block grant will increase in real terms to 2020 as it currently is. So this fantasy that Northern Ireland will not be affordable because of Brexit is just that, it's already being covered. Even infrastructure spending has been increased. 

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The UK economy is much larger than the ROI's. It is not in our interests to join the Republic of Ireland economically speaking as others have pointed out with civil service and public sector jobs, the currency etc.

Demographics is dictating that the numbers gap between the two communities is closing fast and will some time soon show a nationalist majority. Brexit will ensure that the argument turns from a religious headcount to an economic argument. Demographics show that even when being fed directly from the teet that unionists have been screwed over by their masters within and without the north.

It’s end game for unionism with Brexit.  Soft unionists are already showing strong signs of siding with the EU/Ireland. Young people, regardless of background, are far more likely to pick a vibrant, confident, forward thinking, outward looking country with fantastic opportunity than one run by outdated, closed, regressive, fundamentalist, conservative Christian political dinosaurs largely reliant on a public sector that has spiraled out of control.

Unionism is afraid to look to the future and as a result is rooted in the past.

Unionists intelligent enough to look to the future would do worse than to start trying to frame the debate of what a United Ireland would look like to ensure the continuance of their culture through reform of flags, institutions, political alliances etc...

We need to discuss this shared future and we need to ensure that unionists are warmly welcomed in it.

Why do Irish Republicans talk about Unionists being rooted in the past and somehow they are super progressive and don't hold any traditional principles which have existed since Wolfe Tone? Irish Republicanism has a history of traditionalism and principles of which you would not deem progressive until the recent imposters. 

Being a Unionist is not some big conspiracy, it's simply wanting to retain and sustain the Union, people of all walks of life or colour or religion can be a Unionist. The DUP compared to what it was 20 years ago is getting more "progressive" on a number of issues to the dismay of some. 

I do challenge the notion that the idea of progressiveness must dictate the future of either state on the Island. Why do you think it's so important to be a progressive and not conservative?

Berserker

Taytoland wrote: »

I do challenge the notion that the idea of progressiveness must dictate the future of either state on the Island. Why do you think it's so important to be a progressive and not conservative?

Because it's fashionable at the moment.

ectoraige

HonalD wrote: »

Back on topic......

Out of interest, did anyone fill out the EU consultation questionnaire on their website for this?

Trying to stay in topic, yes, I filled it out a few months back, said I would like it gone as there's little tangible benefit anymore.

bobbysands81

Taytoland wrote: »

It's more than 7 billion, so you are wrong with that for starters. The Northern Ireland block grant will increase in real terms to 2020 as it currently is. So this fantasy that Northern Ireland will not be affordable because of Brexit is just that, it's already being covered. Even infrastructure spending has been increased. 



Why do Irish Republicans talk about Unionists being rooted in the past and somehow they are super progressive and don't hold any traditional principles which have existed since Wolfe Tone? Irish Republicanism has a history of traditionalism and principles of which you would not deem progressive until the recent imposters. 

Being a Unionist is not some big conspiracy, it's simply wanting to retain and sustain the Union, people of all walks of life or colour or religion can be a Unionist. The DUP compared to what it was 20 years ago is getting more "progressive" on a number of issues to the dismay of some. 

I do challenge the notion that the idea of progressiveness must dictate the future of either state on the Island. Why do you think it's so important to be a progressive and not conservative?

Precisely the attitude that’s killing unionism.

Taytoland

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

It's more than 7 billion, so you are wrong with that for starters. The Northern Ireland block grant will increase in real terms to 2020 as it currently is. So this fantasy that Northern Ireland will not be affordable because of Brexit is just that, it's already being covered. Even infrastructure spending has been increased. 



Why do Irish Republicans talk about Unionists being rooted in the past and somehow they are super progressive and don't hold any traditional principles which have existed since Wolfe Tone? Irish Republicanism has a history of traditionalism and principles of which you would not deem progressive until the recent imposters. 

Being a Unionist is not some big conspiracy, it's simply wanting to retain and sustain the Union, people of all walks of life or colour or religion can be a Unionist. The DUP compared to what it was 20 years ago is getting more "progressive" on a number of issues to the dismay of some. 

I do challenge the notion that the idea of progressiveness must dictate the future of either state on the Island. Why do you think it's so important to be a progressive and not conservative?

Precisely the attitude that’s killing unionism.

You just disagree. I am a conservative Unionist.

MikeyTaylor

Unionism is dead.