Connacht Team Talk Thread V - The Friend Zone

gally74

The Friend Zone

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Watched it for the first time in ages there today. Connacht played unbelievably well the first 30 minutes. Leinster were barely hanging on really.

For a side that don't get too many finals it was pretty amazing for them to turn up in one and play that well. That said they were really on a roll by that stage of the season and playing with so much confidence.

The double games against glasgow was the difference, they were so tough and so good that season, rem they were holders after that 31 13 win against munster...

Bazzo

Mul, it's over

Haven't looked through the articles yet but guessing if the papers are right about the wrap up to the Heineken cup and reduced teams next season then we'll be excluded. Bit of a kick in the nuts.

gally74

The Friend Zone

Bazzo wrote: »

Haven't looked through the articles yet but guessing if the papers are right about the wrap up to the Heineken cup and reduced teams next season then we'll be excluded. Bit of a kick in the nuts.

if were able to go into the Clan again and stand with People and Enjoy sport, maybe a beer or two, Conn can lose every game at home and it will still be better than the past 8 weeks.

Were a shade off being competitive in the Hein cup anyway, main thing is to keep friend.. and keep building, For an ex pat, im sure they are thinking about being in their home land next winter inc ase this kicks off again,

connachta

Bazzo wrote: »

Haven't looked through the articles yet but guessing if the papers are right about the wrap up to the Heineken cup and reduced teams next season then we'll be excluded. Bit of a kick in the nuts.

not the only option. Would be a pure scandal, as again, it's Pro14 place which is at stake
10 qualified only for 4 countries, now they want us to have 6 instead of 8, then 7

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

not the only option. Would be a pure scandal, as again, it's Pro14 place which is at stake
10 qualified only for 4 countries, now they want us to have 6 instead of 8, then 7

It's not a scandal. It's an unprecedented circumstance. If it's 18 teams comp, its 6 teams from each of the 3 league's

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

It's not a scandal. It's an unprecedented circumstance. If it's 18 teams comp, its 6 teams from each of the 3 league's

So you buy the French/English vision of "league parity" to hinder every Celtic nations. Good for you.

6 years ago 10 qualified
now 6
Scandal.
We should move to a closed league with all the 6 S-Af provinces. Pro 18
one game vs any outside your nation + derbies

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

So you buy the French/English vision of "league parity" to hinder every Celtic nations. Good for you.

6 years ago 10 qualified
now 6
Scandal.
We should move to a closed league with all the 6 S-Af provinces. Pro 18
one game vs any outside your nation + derbies

It is not a scandal.

There is already talk of summer tours being played in october, finishing off this season's champions cup, the 6n to be finished etc. There is also the Lions tour next summer (if it goes ahead) which means a Mid (ish) May deadline for finishing next season

That's a hell of a lot of rugby to squeeze into just under 9 months. Cutting down the Champions Cup even for 1 season is the most logical option, but also going forward too it had it's merits from a meritocracy and competition standard POV


Competition structures change. That's life. The rugby calendar is in dire need of change.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

It is not a scandal.

There is already talk of summer tours being played in october, finishing off this season's champions cup, the 6n to be finished etc. There is also the Lions tour next summer (if it goes ahead) which means a Mid (ish) May deadline for finishing next season

That's a hell of a lot of rugby to squeeze into just under 9 months. Cutting down the Champions Cup even for 1 season is the most logical option, but also going forward too it had it's merits from a meritocracy and competition standard POV


Competition structures change. That's life. The rugby calendar is in dire need of change.

No 100 times no


There's the 24-club option on the table, which would not add anything to the exceptionally reduced calendar (8 pools of 3)


Or this Malthusian option, which is the long-term view of English league for Europe

Richie_Rich89

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

No 100 times no


There's the 24-club option on the table, which would not add anything to the exceptionally reduced calendar (8 pools of 3)


Or this Malthusian option, which is the long-term view of English league for Europe

Good idea. Seven or eight pools of three allows all 20 teams to be included without any drawbacks I can think of.

I'd be a bit suspicious of the motives of PRL in suggesting a change in format. They were trying to float the idea of a reduced European Cup with six pools of three and two-legged qfs before there was any Covid-19 disruption.

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Good idea. Seven or eight pools of three allows all 20 teams to be included without any drawbacks I can think of.

I'd be a bit suspicious of the motives of PRL in suggesting a change in format. They were trying to float the idea of a reduced European Cup with six pools of three and two-legged qfs before there was any Covid-19 disruption.

All 20 teams?

There is no way we can go back to having all 12 Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian sides automatically entered into the champions cup if thats what your hinting at.

Bazzo

Mul, it's over

Burkie1203 wrote: »

All 20 teams?

There is no way we can go back to having all 12 Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian sides automatically entered into the champions cup if thats what your hinting at.

?? There are 20 teams in the current competition format.

connachta

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Good idea. Seven or eight pools of three allows all 20 teams to be included without any drawbacks I can think of.

I'd be a bit suspicious of the motives of PRL in suggesting a change in format. They were trying to float the idea of a reduced European Cup with six pools of three and two-legged qfs before there was any Covid-19 disruption.

Thank you! Here's what I mean!

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

Bazzo wrote: »

?? There are 20 teams in the current competition format.

The whole rugby landscape has changed the last 2 month's. Whatever intentions are or were, the next 18 months are going to be extremely tough and i expect changes.

International rugby drives the finances for a lot of unions so regardless of the FFR and RFU motives, it comes down to Money now and getting it as quick as possible. FIR, WRU and SRU, and probably even the IRFU, will likely need internationals to be played ASAP.

Cutting Champions cup down to 18 makes more sense then expanding it to 24 again. Top 6 from each league is a far better prospect

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The whole rugby landscape has changed the last 2 month's. Whatever intentions are or were, the next 18 months are going to be extremely tough and i expect changes.

International rugby drives the finances for a lot of unions so regardless of the FFR and RFU motives, it comes down to Money now and getting it as quick as possible. FIR, WRU and SRU, and probably even the IRFU, will likely need internationals to be played ASAP.

Cutting Champions cup down to 18 makes more sense then expanding it to 24 again. Top 6 from each league is a far better prospect

utter silliness, it changes nothing to the calendar reduction, would bring far more money than forcing clubs in Challenge Cup (unfairly for Toulouse/Clermont and Connacht), and just suits the English Malthusian agenda

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

utter silliness, it changes nothing to the calendar reduction, would bring far more money than forcing clubs in Challenge Cup (unfairly for Toulouse/Clermont and Connacht), and just suits the English Malthusian agenda

So a competition should be arranged to suit Connacht playing in it.

The whole structure of rugby calendar needs to change and IMO an 18 team comp with 6 groups of 3 with the top 6 from each league is a better option then having 6 more teams. When we last had 24 teams there was always a lopsided nature to it.

Bazzo

Mul, it's over

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The whole rugby landscape has changed the last 2 month's. Whatever intentions are or were, the next 18 months are going to be extremely tough and i expect changes.

International rugby drives the finances for a lot of unions so regardless of the FFR and RFU motives, it comes down to Money now and getting it as quick as possible. FIR, WRU and SRU, and probably even the IRFU, will likely need internationals to be played ASAP.

Cutting Champions cup down to 18 makes more sense then expanding it to 24 again. Top 6 from each league is a far better prospect

I have absolutely no idea why you've aimed this massive response at me.

Just to actually weigh in I do think that being disappointed about getting the short end of the stick if 2 teams get cut is a totally reasonably position to have. Any team on the planet would be sore if they were the oens cut and would be looking at other available options.

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

Bazzo wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea why you've aimed this massive response at me.

Just to actually weigh in I do think that being disappointed about getting the short end of the stick if 2 teams get cut is a totally reasonably position to have. Any team on the planet would be sore if they were the oens cut and would be looking at other available options.

I understand that, but I don't think some.pelple fully understand what the next 18 months will entail. A streamlined champions cup could be of higher value for TV and sponsors.

connachta

And how it works?
Have we had any proof reducing from 24 to 20 have improved HCup revenue?

Champions league in football to go to a closed league is the same. Just rich clubs wanting to avoid "upsets" as low-budget clubs like Connacht, Edinburgh and Ulster often do despite the money power they face

Former Former

You've got a Friend in me

This was the second season of a four-year TV deal. It's hard to see how BT are going to sit by and let their live content be cut without looking for a sizeable discount in what they're paying for it. So, chances are it won't be reduced (yet).

That said, if we had to drop to 18, 6-6-6 is the fairest solution and taking the top 6 at time of cessation is the fairest way to pick the teams. Not sure what else you could do.

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

And how it works?
Have we had any proof reducing from 24 to 20 have improved HCup revenue?

Champions league in football to go to a closed league is the same. Just rich clubs wanting to avoid "upsets" as low-budget clubs like Connacht, Edinburgh and Ulster often do despite the money power they face

Embra and Ulster would qualify as both are currently top 6.

The 24 team tournament was lopsided. Pro12 teams qualified automatically etc. Some groups were extremely poor quality. Cutting down the teams and having home and away QF looks a far more attractive option to me. Far less dead rubber games too

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Embra and Ulster would qualify as both are currently top 6.

The 24 team tournament was lopsided. Pro12 teams qualified automatically etc. Some groups were extremely poor quality. Cutting down the teams and having home and away QF looks a far more attractive option to me. Far less dead rubber games too

Except Zebre sometimes (and they don't qualify anymore) there are very few dead rubber games. Connacht and Treviso are now deserving their spots.
20 clubs produce a very homogenous level, the rest is just about Malthus aberration.


France may organize play-off to give Montpellier and Toulouse a chance to get there. But when it comes to Pro14 I can bet you poor Connacht and Dragons won't have this chance


"According to whether you are powerful or miserable, the judgments of court will return to you white or black" French author Jean De la Fontaine

Scottmactom

word is leinster and ireland u20 lock/blindside Cian Prendergast will be joining Connacht Academy next season.

CowboyTed

Former Former wrote: »

This was the second season of a four-year TV deal. It's hard to see how BT are going to sit by and let their live content be cut without looking for a sizeable discount in what they're paying for it. So, chances are it won't be reduced (yet).

That said, if we had to drop to 18, 6-6-6 is the fairest solution and taking the top 6 at time of cessation is the fairest way to pick the teams. Not sure what else you could do.

How is that fair...

Our league consists of 4 countries in the 6 nations (ie the golden goose of rugby).

The Magniers League is consistently better than the other two leagues and apart from Saracens(who were breaking English rules) the English league is a a good bit behind the others.

Now Maginers has not only a new country but the world champions and talk of even more expansion... The English league is grossly over hyped for the league it is... The games are more competitive because the Magnier league take responibility of growing the games in weaker areas. They should not be punished for that..

salmocab

CowboyTed wrote: »

How is that fair...

Our league consists of 4 countries in the 6 nations (ie the golden goose of rugby).

The Magniers League is consistently better than the other two leagues and apart from Saracens(who were breaking English rules) the English league is a a good bit behind the others.

Now Maginers has not only a new country but the world champions and talk of even more expansion... The English league is grossly over hyped for the league it is... The games are more competitive because the Magnier league take responibility of growing the games in weaker areas. They should not be punished for that..

In fairness on the fairness thing if (and I really don’t care about the wider topic) a competition is 18 teams then 3 leagues supplying 6 teams each makes sense. The amount of countries in a particular league is irrelevant.

connachta

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness on the fairness thing if (and I really don’t care about the wider topic) a competition is 18 teams then 3 leagues supplying 6 teams each makes sense. The amount of countries in a particular league is irrelevant.

It is not.
The 4th Irish or 2nd Scottish is deserving more exposition than a Xth English/French Club.
It's called fairness

sydthebeat

The Friend Zone

connachta wrote: »

It is not.
The 4th Irish or 2nd Scottish is deserving more exposition than a Xth English/French Club.
It's called fairness

How is the 4th Irish club out of 4 more deserving of a place than the 6th English club out of 12??

There are valid arguments in both sides, but the above is just plain rubbish.

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

How is the 4th Irish club out of 4 more deserving of a place than the 6th English club out of 12??

Because Ireland have provinces.
When France will do the same "effort" and reduce its league to 6 provinces, they will be on the same page.


They can't use the argument "we've more clubs, give us more spots than provincialised countries"
In this case, let's disband Leinster, have 3 big clubs in Dublin which would still be competive, and ask for more european spots.

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

It is not.
The 4th Irish or 2nd Scottish is deserving more exposition than a Xth English/French Club.
It's called fairness

connachta wrote: »

Because Ireland have provinces.
When France will do the same "effort" and reduce its league to 6 provinces, they will be on the same page.


They can't use the argument "we've more clubs, give us more spots than provincialised countries"
In this case, let's disband Leinster, have 3 big clubs in Dublin which would still be competive, and ask for more european spots.

France population 60 million
Ireland (island) population 6 million

Of course France has more clubs at the highest level (the provinces are effectively clubs in that regard). Divide the French up into regions of similar population to say Leinster and you get 30 regions.

But you know that. This isn't about fairness. It's a hissy fit because Connacht may miss out


The 4th Irish club is 7th (?) in the pro14 allowing for conference split. The entry to Europe from pro14 cannot be based on geography. It takes away from the competition to have a team in 8th or 9th auto qualifying when teams in 7th in other leagues won't.

Former Former

You've got a Friend in me

In a world gone mad, there is a comforting familiarity about the current discussion.

salmocab

connachta wrote: »

It is not.
The 4th Irish or 2nd Scottish is deserving more exposition than a Xth English/French Club.
It's called fairness

No that’s just nonsense, the 4th Irish or 2nd Scottish is not more deserving, it’s qualifying from a league and if those clubs aren’t in whatever qualifying position is required then they aren’t deserving.
If you want everyone from Ireland and Scotland to qualify just because then surely all the french and English clubs should too?