Connacht Team Talk Thread V - The Friend Zone

macslash

Mul, it's over

Just looking at that list there, the scrum half position is very exciting. Huge chance for the two younger lads if either of Marms or Blade pick up an injury or international call up.

Utopia Parkway

ClanofLams wrote: »

Alex Wooton joining on one year loan.

Fairly underwhelming but given the position need and the finances going forward in the short term it's probably as good as can be expected. Hope he does well.

Still think the squad has taken a not inconsiderable dip in quality overall. Really depending on some of the (many) young players making a serious impact to counter balance this.

connachta

macslash wrote: »

Just looking at that list there, the scrum half position is very exciting. Huge chance for the two younger lads if either of Marms or Blade pick up an injury or international call up.

Most Irish U20 SH are Connachtmen we're blessed in this position

Lucas44

connachta wrote: »

Murray just reach 110k from 100k during lockdown. He may lose weight during open season and training.

So here are in your list those who are really comparable








In this list only 2 are high-profile players.

every player in that list was named in the 6nations squad this year for their respected country 🀦*♂️

connachta

Lucas44 wrote: »

every player in that list was named in the 6nations squad this year for their respected country ��*♂️

No sorry a squad player for Italy or Wales is not better than a PRO14 Squad player (which he is btw).
If N.Murray is higher-profile, he has to be compared (weight also) to Irish, English N-Z and S-Af 3 main locks

Wegians89

The Friend Zone

connachta wrote: »

No sorry a squad player for Italy or Wales is not better than a PRO14 Squad player (which he is btw).
If N.Murray is higher-profile, he has to be compared (weight also) to Irish, English N-Z and S-Af 3 main locks

Can we not write him off before he’s even got on the pitch? He looked good anytime last season and had the potential to be one of the best players to come out of the Connacht academy in years. He’ll need time but I’d rather he played and learned than signing a journey man lock who weighs 120kg

connachta

Wegians89 wrote: »

Can we not write him off before he’s even got on the pitch? He looked good anytime last season and had the potential to be one of the best players to come out of the Connacht academy in years. He’ll need time but I’d rather he played and learned than signing a journey man lock who weighs 120kg

My point never has been to write him off.
But to say he's not the starting solution or game-changer for now.

He gained 10 Kg in 1 year. He could well add 5-6 more in the next years, he's only 20. He may be the future, no problem about this. But I'm worried for this season to have light and very young back-ups (Dowling and him) right behind our 3 main.


I think Gallagher have a pivotal role to play as TH lock

realhorrorshow

Your first choice 23 as the squad is now?

1. Denis Buckley
2. Dave Heffernan
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Gavin Thornbury
5. Quinn Roux
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Jarrad Butler
8. Paul Boyle
9. Caolin Blade
10. Jack Carty
11. Alex Wootton
12. Bundee Aki
13. Tom Farrell
14. John Porch
15. Tiernan O'Halloran
16. Shane Delahunt
17. Paddy McAllister
18. Dom Robertson-McCoy
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Eoghan Masterson
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Conor Fitzgerald
23. Sam Arnold

Dillane vs Thornbury is a toss up for me, each has outperformed the other at different points over the past couple of seasons. Ditto Blade/Marmion. Hopefully we'll sign a starting 8, with Boyle dropping into the 20 jersey, but realistically starting a lot at 6 when O'Brien isn't available. Have given the nod to Farrell over Arnold based on past performances, but the best policy could be to rotate himself and Arnold on a horses for courses basis. I'd definitely be happier with Arnold on a wet December day in the RDS. Wootton over Healy is questionable, we'll have to see what sort of form either can sustain.

connachta

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Your first choice 23 as the squad is now?

1. Denis Buckley
2. Dave Heffernan
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Gavin Thornbury
5. Quinn Roux
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Jarrad Butler
8. Paul Boyle Sure a big NIQ will be our final and marquee signing here
9. Caolin Blade Marmion back to his best said Friend
10. Jack Carty
11. Alex Wootton I'd trust S.Fitzgerald for defence
12. Bundee Aki
13. Tom Farrell
14. John Porch
15. Tiernan O'Halloran
16. Shane Delahunt
17. Paddy McAllister
18. Dom Robertson-McCoy
19. Ultan Dillane
20. Eoghan Masterson Boyle there, then, but close call with SOB/Masterson
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Conor Fitzgerald
23. Sam Arnold

Dillane vs Thornbury is a toss up for me, each has outperformed the other at different points over the past couple of seasons. Ditto Blade/Marmion. Hopefully we'll sign a starting 8, with Boyle dropping into the 20 jersey, but realistically starting a lot at 6 when O'Brien isn't available. Have given the nod to Farrell over Arnold based on past performances, but the best policy could be to rotate himself and Arnold on a horses for courses basis. I'd definitely be happier with Arnold on a wet December day in the RDS. Wootton over Healy is questionable, we'll have to see what sort of form either can sustain.

We agree!

realhorrorshow

connachta wrote: »

We agree!

Wonder when Stephen Fitz will be back, did his ACL in January.

Wegians89

The Friend Zone

Think McAllister will push Buckley for a starting spot. I’d probably start Thornbury-Roux with Dillane on the bench for big matches. Marmion probably starts for me over blade.

McAllister/ Buckley
Heff
Bealham
Thornbury
Roux
Sob
Butler
Boyle / new signing
Marmion
Carty
Wootton
Bundee
Farrell
Porch
Toh

Delahunt
Buckley/ McAllister
McCoy
Dillane
Masterson
Blade
C Fitz
S Fitz

Bazzo

Mul, it's over

I think Dillane starts with Roux for me, Thornbury is a very good player but always felt that combination complement each other best. Probably moot anyway as we're lucky to have all 3 fit.

connachta

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Wonder when Stephen Fitz will be back, did his ACL in January.

we can expect at the begining of October, that's the important thing

connachta

We all assume Butler is moving to 7, but no sign of this for now AFAIC...
Oliver will play a far prominient role if it doesn't happen
I'm convinced, even if E.Masterson is more versatile, Conor will be useful, and efficient. He's pretty much the same profile than Fainga'a, after all. Small, fast, smart 7 .

Bazzo

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

We all assume Butler is moving to 7, but no sign of this for now AFAIC...
Oliver will play a far prominient role if it doesn't happen
I'm convinced, even if E.Masterson is more versatile, Conor will be useful, and efficient. He's pretty much the same profile than Fainga'a, after all. Small, fast, smart 7 .

I think Oliver has to prove himself before leapfrogging Boyle in the pecking order.. 6. O'Brien 7. Butler 8. Boyle

FACECUTTR

Bazzo wrote: »

I think Oliver has to prove himself before leapfrogging Boyle in the pecking order.. 6. O'Brien 7. Butler 8. Boyle

Good balance there especially as Boyle has put on some kgs. O'Brien needs a season injury free.

FACECUTTR

Bazzo wrote: »

I think Oliver has to prove himself before leapfrogging Boyle in the pecking order.. 6. O'Brien 7. Butler 8. Boyle

Good balance there especially as Boyle has put on some kgs. O'Brien needs a season injury free.

realhorrorshow

connachta wrote: »

We all assume Butler is moving to 7, but no sign of this for now AFAIC...
Oliver will play a far prominient role if it doesn't happen
I'm convinced, even if E.Masterson is more versatile, Conor will be useful, and efficient. He's pretty much the same profile than Fainga'a, after all. Small, fast, smart 7 .

Butler was moved to 8 because Fainga'a was so good and they both needed to be accommodated somehow. I'm optimistic about Oliver but not to that extent. Size =/= power, he and Fainga'a may be a similar size but Fainga'a is a much more physical player.

ClanofLams

Mul, it's over

Marmion at 9 for me too but will need to be at his best to hold off blade. Second row is tricky, Roux would probably be first choice for me.

Haven’t seen much of Wooton. Didn’t expect him to be first choice immediately to be honest.

realhorrorshow

ClanofLams wrote: »

Marmion at 9 for me too but will need to be at his best to hold off blade. Second row is tricky, Roux would probably be first choice for me.

Haven’t seen much of Wooton. Didn’t expect him to be first choice immediately to be honest.

At his best in 17/18 he was playing at a higher level than any of our wingers have been over the past season or so. Whether he can hit those heights again remains to be seen. Just about to turn 26 so time is on his side.

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

Marmion at 9 for me too but will need to be at his best to hold off blade. Second row is tricky, Roux would probably be first choice for me.

Haven’t seen much of Wooton. Didn’t expect him to be first choice immediately to be honest.

Roux has conceeded 2 pens per games when he played...
I'd go with Dillane/Thornbury, even if i'm the 1st to say we lack power
that's why we need so much this big ball-carrying n°8

ClanofLams

Mul, it's over

connachta wrote: »

Roux has conceeded 2 pens per games when he played...
I'd go with Dillane/Thornbury, even if i'm the 1st to say we lack power
that's why we need so much this big ball-carrying n°8

Have you a stat for that? Or just estimate? He gives away some silly penalties but would be surprised if it was as high as two per game.

Roux’s form for first half of this season before he got injured was excellent, best any second row Connacht has had in last few years, that’s no disrespect to Dillane or Thornbury who have both been playing well generally, especially the latter.

Think Dillane still hasn’t quite hit heights expected of him after debut season but has had off field issues and still has plenty of time. Might be a case of unfair expectations too.

ClanofLams

Mul, it's over

The odd one in exceptional cases is fine but I wouldn’t like loans to become a regular thing. They would diminish Connacht were that the case.

connachta

ClanofLams wrote: »

Have you a stat for that? Or just estimate? He gives away some silly penalties but would be surprised if it was as high as two per game.

Estimation but then I've found stats as you asked


395 minutes played, 7 pens conceeded


7 you devide by 5 full-games


1.4 pens per game


Bit better than my estimation but still too high


At the best level, a team may conceed 10-12 pens a game


No player should be allowed to conceed more than one...

testtech05

Some Like It TOH

connachta wrote: »

Estimation but then I've found stats as you asked


395 minutes played, 7 pens conceeded


7 you devide by 5 full-games


1.4 pens per game


Bit better than my estimation but still too high


At the best level, a team may conceed 10-12 pens a game


No player should be allowed to conceed more than one...

When Roux came first he was a bit of a liability for the penalties I'll give you that but he has really improved in fairness to him!!

It's a bit harsh to just say oh gives away 2 penalties every game!!

Lucas44

connachta wrote: »

No sorry a squad player for Italy or Wales is not better than a PRO14 Squad player (which he is btw).
If N.Murray is higher-profile, he has to be compared (weight also) to Irish, English N-Z and S-Af 3 main locks

Hahaha what about the french and Irish squad players I mentioned... so according to that logic a player good enough to get picked for an 6 nations squad is not better than the average player playing in the same league as them that they are potentially starting ahead of for their club? Can’t wrap my head around that.. btw he’s 2kg lighter than Gallagher and he’ll surpass him by the end of the year but yet Gallagher is a th lock according to you at 112kg. Come on take off the hater shades and sit back and watch Him develop [/quote]

Burkie1203

Mul, it's over

ClanofLams wrote: »

The odd one in exceptional cases is fine but I wouldn’t like loans to become a regular thing. They would diminish Connacht were that the case.

Wootton moving adds Zero to the IRFU outgoings. At this stage the IRFU finances dictate everything as it looks like crowd numbers will be seriously limited for some time

connachta

Wootton tackling rate based on the past 3 seasons (Pro14 only) :

73%

Adeolokun tackling rate based on the past 3 seasons (Pro14 only) :

74%

Niyi is not a great tackler but at least we could say it is not a loss

connachta

Comparison (based on the same Pro14 stats on the last 3 years)

Lowe 71%
D.Kearney 71%
Conway 79%
Earls 83%
Sweetnam 79%
Gilroy 70%
Ludik 88%
Stockdale 74%

Some time to re-calculate pluriannual rates, but it gives a better indication, based on samples of 84 to 187 tackles

(players without meaningful numbers on the 3 seasons -injuries, not arrived in 2017, no Pro14 gametime, not pure back-3- have not be selected)

sydthebeat

The Friend Zone

Numbers meaningless without an understand of defense systems.

Leinster play a very aggressive blitz most of the time, and trust their scramble.... Where other teams would be more inclined to push and drift and aim to slow ruck's.