Should Dublin ban Burqas and Hijabs?

timthumbni

Wibbs wrote: »

suicide_circus wrote: »

the danger is that banning could lead to consequences far worse for society than a few women being unidentifiable. I don't know. let's watch France and Denmark for a while and see what happens there.

Indeed SC and this is a symptom of the failure of the experiment in "multiculturalism". Fear. When a society is afraid of an alien minority that blatantly advertises its intolerance to that society to the degree that it pussyfoots around actually confronting it, that society is weak.

There is no doubt that most of the Western European countries are very weak. They seem to have no problem bending over backwards for people who despise them and exploit their weaknesses and stupidity to the hilt. Things aren’t so bad today perhaps but one day and it will be soon our children or our grandchildren will be asking wtf did we allow this to happen. We will only have ourselves to blame.

blinding

The Germans in Chemnitz are making their concerns known .

Many have tried ( peacefully ) before but the politicians haven’t listened .

When you see Violence Working for Islam....Well Quid Pro Quo .

cfuserkildare

Skinhead Kane wrote: »

Greetings guys and girls,

I have been thinking about this topic for quite some time now and have yet to make a real judgement on what truly would be a correct answer. If were to go to a country populated by the Muslim community we would be asked to cover up and follow their religious procedure.

Therefore in Britain and Ireland I believe we are within our rights to ban something that isolates woman and was made by men to oppress them. If I were to show my hair/head in their countries, I would be seen as obscene.

Recently came back from a trip and had some female friends been told by locals to cover their arms and legs as well as hair before entering out of the city centre areas. It was a very aggressive approach to and almost demanded 'or we leave the country' type of attitude. Now not using this as a reason or motive to make this topic, but it has however got me thinking.

If I could vote on it, I would ban burqas and possibly hijab.


What's your take on this guys?

Regards,

Sk

For safety and security reasons then Yes they should be banned.

banie01

Along with Burkes and Hickeys!
Ban Culchies and any hint of non conformity!
Keep Dublin English I say!

Wanderer78

Oh, the scary foreigners! Boring!

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm fearing what we would have become rather than violence, although that can't be ruled out. that's how they really win, is it not? by turning us into them.

They win by disregarding and disrespecting the culture they find themselves in. To be frank, I'm no cultural relativist. I consider some cultures overall better than others and make no apologies for that. I consider Western culture superior to Islamic on a few levels*. A culture that must be rigorously defended







*It's time dependent as well. EG I would have considered Islamic culture superior to Western culture in the 10th century, but that's a long time ago. After an all too brief flowering of light and civilisation the Islamic world has been in reverse ever since.

Malayalam

Wibbs wrote: »

They win by disregarding and disrespecting the culture they find themselves in. To be frank, I'm no cultural relativist. I consider some cultures overall better than others and make no apologies for that. I consider Western culture superior to Islamic on a few levels*. A culture that must be rigorously defended







*It's time dependent as well. EG I would have considered Islamic culture superior to Western culture in the 10th century, but that's a long time ago. After an all too brief flowering of light and civilisation the Islamic world has been in reverse ever since.

Bravely said, you will take some criticism for that. Although I do think there are moderate and progressive voices in Islam who have a lot to offer to western culture going forwards. They are being drowned out though as are moderate western voices by cultural relativists and religious ideologues, a two pronged silencer we will one day regret

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

culture that must be rigorously defended

and the inherent weakness in western culture is that calling for western culture to be defended is seen as a dangerous right wing notion. freedom isn't free I guess. if we want to hold on to the liberties and quality of life we enjoy we may have to compromise on a few things.

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote:

and the inherent weakness in western culture is that calling for western culture to be defended is seen as a dangerous right wing notion. freedom isn't free I guess. if we want to hold on to the liberties and quality of life we enjoy we may have to compromise on a few things.

There's no such thing as freedom on this planet, but we continually try convince ourselves there is

suicide_circus

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's no such thing as freedom on this planet, but we continually try convince ourselves there is

Deep.
We enjoy liberties that many across the globe do not.

Roger Hassenforder

Hijab- no. If you want to wear it as an expression of your faith fine, just scan my rashers and rum please.

Burqa - yes.
Nothing screams "we/I've no interest integrating in your society" than a burka.


I'd love to see some genuine independent study on how many women genuinely want to wear it , and how many are obliged/forced to wear one.
Anyone got anything?

timthumbni

Malayalam wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

They win by disregarding and disrespecting the culture they find themselves in. To be frank, I'm no cultural relativist. I consider some cultures overall better than others and make no apologies for that. I consider Western culture superior to Islamic on a few levels*. A culture that must be rigorously defended







*It's time dependent as well. EG I would have considered Islamic culture superior to Western culture in the 10th century, but that's a long time ago. After an all too brief flowering of light and civilisation the Islamic world has been in reverse ever since.

Bravely said, you will take some criticism for that. Although I do think there are moderate and progressive voices in Islam who have a lot to offer to western culture going forwards. They are being drowned out though as are moderate western voices by cultural relativists and religious ideologues, a two pronged silencer we will one day regret

I’ve said many times that our pants down and bend over attitude will haunt our future generations. So many people defend isalmic sadistic practices simply to be seen as right on.

It was the same during the Cold War when some would do anything to defend communism despite all the evidence of the horrors it caused. The soviets had a term for these people. Useful idiots..

There are still a plethora of useful idiots in Ireland, the uk and most of Western Europe. We need to wise the feck up... and quickly...

suicide_circus

I don't have anything particularly against the Burqa or Hijab. They're fine in the countries of their origin. I don't see why they should be tolerated in western countries though, since we don't have a cultural/historical background for having them, and I don't see it as desirable that we should develop such a culture.

The fact is that when you visit any Islamic country, there are laws/rules which determine your dress. While the Burqa/Hijab might not be required for foreigners (that means us), there are strict cultural demands to cover legs, shoulders, hair etc. Depending on the nation, those demands increase or decrease in severity and punishment.

"“If you want to be accepted and value the opportunity to befriend locals, dress modestly," says Telegraph Travel's Dubai expert Lara Dunston. "Women should wear skirts to the knees or longer, tops with sleeves, and nothing too tight or revealing; men should wear trousers/jeans and tops with sleeves. While you’ll see foreigners wearing less, this is highly offensive to Emiratis and it reduces your chances of meeting locals and getting the most out of your visit. Don’t even think about wearing swimwear away from the beach or hotel swimming pool. Do so and you risk being fined or, at worst, jailed.” "

I always find it amazing this expectation that Europeans should be so welcoming.... that they should, themselves, put aside any discomfort for other cultures & their habits, when it's the case, that in many countries around the world, the opposite is true.

Could some explain to me why Europe/Ireland needs to be so different from these countries? Why does the discomfort of local Irish/Europeans matter so little? After all, wouldn't you want us to respect the local culture when we go to Islamic countries?

suicide_circus wrote: »

listen lads, I agree that the multiculturalism experiment in europe has utterly failed and perhaps strong stances such as banning the Burka are the only solution I really don't know.

I wouldn't say it's the only solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

But TBF, I would feel the same about any religious mode of dress which drastically sets people apart and encourages people to be different. I'd suggest that you can't encourage integration into a foreign culture, by allowing practices which prevent that integration. Such dress codes such as the Hijab set people apart. It's distinguishes them as being different.

And before someone jumps in with some inane or obviously stupid minor example, no, it's not the same.

The Hijab/Burqas are more than simply religious expressions. They're cultural. They make a very clear statement that your beliefs do not align with Western values.


Secondly, in consideration for the failure of multiculturalism, the rise of modern terrorism, and the unrest/friction that has occurred in Europe (less so in Ireland yet), there is a lot of grievance against Islam. There is a growing anger and hostility throughout Europe, regarding the presence and behavior of Muslims. That hostility will likely turn to stronger expressions relatively soon. No doubt, posters will say that these Europeans would be wrong to behave that way, but the simple fact is that we have no way to diminish that anger. In spite of all your welcoming speeches/attitudes, you're not going to remove that anger which is developing... and the Hijab/Burqa give a very clear distinguishing sign that this person is a target. They distinguish the person as being not European. It makes far more sense to ban the use of Burqas/Hijabs until such a time that we have a working system in place to integrate Muslims, without encouraging the anger that currently exists.

No doubt the attitude will be that the Europeans should change and be more welcoming... so... tell me how that will happen? Seriously. Would love to know how you (those defending Muslim rights) propose to diminish that anger/dislike/hatred of Muslims which is sweeping Europe?

Discodog wrote: »

You progress by educating not banning.

Educating who? Surely the mere presence of western cultural freedoms would be educating them to their possibilities and freedoms?

The point though is that such dress is reinforced by parents, husbands, mothers, etc. (yup, there's a rather large % of Islamic women who enforce the demands for the Hijab/Burqa and will report lack of use to others) How do you educate them, and even more importantly, how do you convince them that their cultural habits are wrong?

You can't. So, you give an option. You can wear these things in Islamic countries, and when you live in a western nation, then you live as a westerner.... Don't like it or can't accept it? You're very welcome to move to an Islamic nation.

timthumbni

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't have anything particularly against the Burqa or Hijab. They're fine in the countries of their origin. I don't see why they should be tolerated in western countries though, since we don't have a cultural/historical background for having them, and I don't see it as desirable that we should develop such a culture.

The fact is that when you visit any Islamic country, there are laws/rules which determine your dress. While the Burqa/Hijab might not be required for foreigners (that means us), there are strict cultural demands to cover legs, shoulders, hair etc. Depending on the nation, those demands increase or decrease in severity and punishment.

"“If you want to be accepted and value the opportunity to befriend locals, dress modestly," says Telegraph Travel's Dubai expert Lara Dunston. "Women should wear skirts to the knees or longer, tops with sleeves, and nothing too tight or revealing; men should wear trousers/jeans and tops with sleeves. While you’ll see foreigners wearing less, this is highly offensive to Emiratis and it reduces your chances of meeting locals and getting the most out of your visit. Don’t even think about wearing swimwear away from the beach or hotel swimming pool. Do so and you risk being fined or, at worst, jailed.” "

I always find it amazing this expectation that Europeans should be so welcoming.... that they should, themselves, put aside any discomfort for other cultures & their habits, when it's the case, that in many countries around the world, the opposite is true.

Could some explain to me why Europe/Ireland needs to be so different from these countries? Why does the discomfort of local Irish/Europeans matter so little? After all, wouldn't you want us to respect the local culture when we go to Islamic countries?

suicide_circus wrote: »

listen lads, I agree that the multiculturalism experiment in europe has utterly failed and perhaps strong stances such as banning the Burka are the only solution I really don't know.

I wouldn't say it's the only solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

But TBF, I would feel the same about any religious mode of dress which drastically sets people apart and encourages people to be different. I'd suggest that you can't encourage integration into a foreign culture, by allowing practices which prevent that integration. Such dress codes such as the Hijab set people apart. It's distinguishes them as being different.

And before someone jumps in with some inane or obviously stupid minor example, no, it's not the same.

The Hijab/Burqas are more than simply religious expressions. They're cultural. They make a very clear statement that your beliefs do not align with Western values.


Secondly, in consideration for the failure of multiculturalism, the rise of modern terrorism, and the unrest/friction that has occurred in Europe (less so in Ireland yet), there is a lot of grievance against Islam. There is a growing anger and hostility throughout Europe, regarding the presence and behavior of Muslims. That hostility will likely turn to stronger expressions relatively soon. No doubt, posters will say that these Europeans would be wrong to behave that way, but the simple fact is that we have no way to diminish that anger. In spite of all your welcoming speeches/attitudes, you're not going to remove that anger which is developing... and the Hijab/Burqa give a very clear distinguishing sign that this person is a target. They distinguish the person as being not European. It makes far more sense to ban the use of Burqas/Hijabs until such a time that we have a working system in place to integrate Muslims, without encouraging the anger that currently exists.

No doubt the attitude will be that the Europeans should change and be more welcoming... so... tell me how that will happen? Seriously. Would love to know how you (those defending Muslim rights) propose to diminish that anger/dislike/hatred of Muslims which is sweeping Europe?

Discodog wrote: »

You progress by educating not banning.

Educating who? Surely the mere presence of western cultural freedoms would be educating them to their possibilities and freedoms?

The point though is that such dress is reinforced by parents, husbands, mothers, etc. (yup, there's a rather large % of Islamic women who enforce the demands for the Hijab/Burqa and will report lack of use to others) How do you educate them, and even more importantly, how do you convince them that their cultural habits are wrong?

You can't. So, you give an option. You can wear these things in Islamic countries, and when you live in a western nation, then you live as a westerner.... Don't like it or can't accept it? You're very welcome to move to an Islamic nation.

An excellent post. I agree with everything you said.

Omackeral

A full body and face covering in a crowded place is 100% cool though.

It's funny, I said this before that I walked into a shopping centre and within 5 seconds was approached and instructed to take down my hood. The responses from the usual candidates was that I must be a scumbag if security came over and told me to lower my hood. I'm not. The other one was that another fella regularly goes shopping with his hood up and nothing is said to them. Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you friend.

Taytoland

One eyed Jack wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Women in Muslim society are very much second class citizens within their own type. That’s not even a debate. It’s Amazing how many excuses people make.

Of course it’s debatable as you’re using Western standards to comment on standards in Muslim societies. You’re basically comparing apples and oranges. If you’re going to attempt to make that comparison then by the same standards, women in Western society are also just as much ‘second class citizens within their own type’.

Absolute joke of a post. Unbelievable. And yes they should be banned. If they don't like it get on the first boat or plane and go live in Muslim countries.

riffmongous

cournioni wrote: »

That’s all well and good, but allowing a garment that covers up identifiable features just because of their culture or religion is just as dangerous. What makes them any different from an avid motorcyclist who likes to wear their helmet into shops?

Creating one rule for one person and another for a person just based on their religion is absolutely wrong. The whole pastafarian thing summed it up nicely.

What'll happen at Halloween then? No more trick or treating or party costumes. Interestingly the Austrian law specifically says 'oh it's grand if it's part of our culture'

riffmongous

Taytoland wrote: »

Absolute joke of a post. Unbelievable. And yes they should be banned. If they don't like it get on the first boat or plane and go live in Muslim countries.

I think we should ban the Union Jack, be it a fleg or on an item of clothing, that's far more offensive to our culture and history than something worn by a mere handful of people. Sashes and Orange Lodges too, and rangers jerseys.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's no such thing as freedom on this planet, but we continually try convince ourselves there is

Sure there is... but it comes down to degrees of freedom. Human societies with an sizable population need a structure. Without structure comes chaos, and the group breaks apart violently. Freedom needs to be constrained because absolute freedom is destructive towards any structure which allows people to work together.

Let me put it this way. I've lived 8 years in China, and while I live there, I feel more free than I do in western countries. China is a police state but the laws aren't really enforced that heavily on the level of the average person unless you come to the attention of the government. Stay quiet and you can live your life without may laws/regulations. This can be seen though in the general low quality of services, the low quality of products, etc. The difference though is that in Western countries everything is regulated. There are laws to cover most interactions, and there are bodies in place to ensure that those regulations are enforced. So, over time, you're exposed to more rules/regulations which limit your choices. The State has far more involvement in the lives of the average person in the West than in China. Obviously it's far worse in China when the government does take an interest in you, but with the population involved, it's much easier to stay under the radar.

Then, there are Islamic countries, like Iran, where you have both the government regulations regarding your way of life, but also a very strict cultural system where average people are expected to monitor each others behavior. In this case, it doesn't matter how effective the govt regulations/laws are, there's no escaping the social/cultural aspects, and so your overall freedom is massively reduced. [Yes, I've spent time in Iran]

I really people need to get out and experience other countries (and cultures in their natural setting) before making these kinds of statements. Freedom is far more available in Western countries because you're "entitled" to it, and have the legal means to protect your own freedoms. Other countries don't have this. In China, the constitution is simply a promotional piece. The books of law can be suspended at any time, and often are. Not so in the West.

So.. Freedom? You have freedom. Freedom to break the rules, and deal with the consequences of your actions.

Phil.x

Yes they should be banned.

Taytoland

riffmongous wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Absolute joke of a post. Unbelievable. And yes they should be banned. If they don't like it get on the first boat or plane and go live in Muslim countries.

I think we should ban the Union Jack, be it a fleg or on an item of clothing, that's far more offensive to our culture and history than something worn by a mere handful of people. Sashes and Orange Lodges too, and rangers jerseys.

Yawn, predictable. Stop making excuses for Islamism.

Shenshen

Between this thread and the one about Luas drivers not being able to figure out how to keep their sandwiches cool and threatening strike action about it, I do wonder if the world doesn't have any other problems any more.

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

I think we should ban the Union Jack, be it a fleg or on an item of clothing, that's far more offensive to our culture and history than something worn by a mere handful of people. Sashes and Orange Lodges too, and rangers jerseys.

If it is encouraging an environment of discomfort, and/or hostility, then yes, they should be banned. We have laws which prevent hate speech. We have laws which come into play to diminish the promotion of actions (and imagery) that may result in violence.

If someone can show that displaying the Union Jack will encourage violence against those wearing the Union Jack, then it should be banned. Both for the sake of the 'victim' and the people doing the attacking. [I put victim in '' because they might be wearing it knowing that they would encourage such a reaction]

There is a growing sense of resentment and hostility to Islam in Europe. Not in Ireland (yet, or maybe never), but there is in Europe. Would you agree to that?

timthumbni

riffmongous wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Absolute joke of a post. Unbelievable. And yes they should be banned. If they don't like it get on the first boat or plane and go live in Muslim countries.

I think we should ban the Union Jack, be it a fleg or on an item of clothing, that's far more offensive to our culture and history than something worn by a mere handful of people. Sashes and Orange Lodges too, and rangers jerseys.

Union flag you mean. A jack is ones that are on ships. Sashes are rarely worn nowadays by orange men. They wear collarettes mostly. Deflection is becoming a habit for you.

And I’m still very interested on exactly what forum on here you are a mod. I would assume there wasn’t any other volunteers.....

Are you happy to defend outdated and sadistic Islamic practices or just happy to have a dig at the brits again.?

Try_harder

jaxxx wrote: »

Worldwide. Way past time we grew a pair and refused to accept archaic customs into our countries. Religious garment or not, as far as I'm concerned it has always been and always will be a sign of oppression against women. Keep it out of the Western world where women aren't treated as objects.

Women aren't treated as objects in the west???

Discodog

cournioni wrote: »

What way will you be educating them?

I wouldn't ban the burqa but I would ban Muslim schools & catholic schools. Millions of Muslims don't wear the burqa or hijab. They make up their own mind because, like ever other religion, Islam is open to interpretation.

Children should be taught about world religions & their customs. Then they can make up their own minds.

Discodog

cournioni wrote: »

What makes you think that this is the right thing to do? Why are you right and religious people wrong?

Before you say it I’m not a religious person. I just find your point of view a little far fetched, and quite arrogant.

Educate together schools seem to manage fine & are very popular. Religious practice is for the home not school.

Discodog

cournioni wrote: »

I think all clothing that doesn’t allow reasonable identification of a person in public should be banned. The hijab is fine, the niqab and burqua not fine.

The number one item used to hide identification is the hoody & baseball cap.

Discodog

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s that mean? Are you hoping for an Irish education system that attacks conservative Muslim dress?

Of course not. I want an education system that teaches kids to be open minded & to learn about all religions but not practice them in school.

Yer Da sells Avon

Omackeral wrote: »

It's funny, I said this before that I walked into a shopping centre and within 5 seconds was approached and instructed to take down my hood. The responses from the usual candidates was that I must be a scumbag if security came over and told me to lower my hood. I'm not. The other one was that another fella regularly goes shopping with his hood up and nothing is said to them. Yeah, I'm not sure I believe you friend.

I'd have no major issue with banning burqas (or motorcycle helmets, or balaclavas) from shops, shopping centres, etc, but not hijabs (or hoodies or hats, for that matter).

Banning an item of clothing from outdoor public places though? No, that's just pure fash.

Try_harder

Iran was quite free til the West supported a regime change

Discodog

Wibbs wrote: »

What does that even mean? It sounds great as a comforting soundbite but it has little value behind it. Tell me: How do you "educate" against a 1500 year old set of codes that have proven themselves extremely resilient and fault tolerant that will resist such "education" from any source it sees as a threat? You're applying a post Reformation Western worldview onto something that is very different and it's at best naive, at worst bloody dangerous.

Oh sure go back a few years and places like Iran and Afghanistan some women threw off the headscarfs in a brief hint at modernism. But here's another hint; it didn't last very long did it?

So I say yes, ban them. If someone doesn't want to adhere to the codes and mores of Western culture then they should not be encouraged in flaunting their dissent.

So would you adopt the French model ? If so then every religious symbol has to be removed from every school. Why is it dangerous to allow people to wear what they want ?

blinding

Would you be happy if everyone bar you was wearing a Burka .

Why should one section of society be allowed to do what another section of society can’t .

Would men be allowed to wear a burka ?

Try_harder

Try_harder wrote: »

Women aren't treated as objects in the west???

Well, it depends on what you consider being treated as an object. What do you define it as? I'm guessing it's a pretty broad perception.

And for my own perception, then I would say that many women are treated as objects, and in 'many' cases, those women sought to be treated that way. Perhaps they wished to be sexual objects because of the rather obvious benefits (financial, security, excitement, popularity, etc) that come with living that way.

But the idea that "women" in Ireland (or the west) are treated as objects in the same manner as in Islamic countries is beyond retarded. Any woman in Ireland has the same legal rights as any man. They have the ability to demand respect as a person from the law. They're protected from discrimination under the law, and even, within social/cultural perspectives. You won't find that in Islamic countries.

The fact is that women in the west have far more choice in how they want to live, and how they will be perceived by others (based on their own choices regarding clothes, appearance, work, etc) than the vast majority of countries in the world.. And in many ways, their spectrum of choice is greater to that of men. Choices/decisions in life have consequences.

Yer Da sells Avon

blinding wrote: »

Would you be happy if everyone bar you was wearing a Burka .

Being unhappy about something and wanting it to be made illegal are two completely different things.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

I wouldn't ban the burqa but I would ban Muslim schools & catholic schools. Millions of Muslims don't wear the burqa or hijab. They make up their own mind because, like ever other religion, Islam is open to interpretation.

Actually, no... Islam is not open to interpretation. The fact that Islam can be broken up into hundreds of groups with different interpretations of what the Koran (or Mohammad) says, and how these people apply that perception, doesn't even remotely suggest that Islam is an open religion for interpretation, or behavior. AND There are plenty of passages in the Koran or made by Mohammad which are very exact, and there is no room for personal interpretation. Thieves should have their hands cut off. There is no leeway.

For every group that is relaxed about Islamic rules, you will find five which are far more strict for both themselves, and for how those external to their group should behave.

Children should be taught about world religions & their customs. Then they can make up their own minds.

Indeed they should... however, parents have a far greater influence in determining the choice on religion than schools. How do you factor that in?

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, no... Islam is not open to interpretation. The fact that Islam can be broken up into hundreds of groups with different interpretations of what the Koran (or Mohammad) says, and how these people apply that perception, doesn't even remotely suggest that Islam is an open religion for interpretation, or behavior. AND There are plenty of passages in the Koran or made by Mohammad which are very exact, and there is no room for personal interpretation. Thieves should have their hands cut off. There is no leeway.

For every group that is relaxed about Islamic rules, you will find five which are far more strict for both themselves, and for how those external to their group should behave.



Indeed they should... however, parents have a far greater influence in determining the choice on religion than schools. How do you factor that in?

I know Muslims that don't even attend the mosque, let alone wear the burqa. All religions have different levels. There are some fanatical christians that are every bit as dangerous as radical muslims. I always thought that Buddhism was fairly innocuous until the radical Buddists started murdering Rohinga.

If the parents know that how their child will be educated they can decide if Ireland is for them. It would naturally filter out the more radical of all religions.

Mutant z

They are security hazards and for that alone they should be banned and its nothing to do with culture but to control women, its also nothing to do with protecting your face from the sand otherwise men would also wear them, its about a hostile culture showing its utter contempt for a more civilised one.

riffmongous

timthumbni wrote: »

Union flag you mean. A jack is ones that are on ships. Sashes are rarely worn nowadays by orange men. They wear collarettes mostly. Deflection is becoming a habit for you.

And I’m still very interested on exactly what forum on here you are a mod. I would assume there wasn’t any other volunteers.....

Are you happy to defend outdated and sadistic Islamic practices or just happy to have a dig at the brits again.?

Yeah I think everyone's heard that before a few times now but everyone still calls it the union jack don't they.

I'm just an ordinary poster here timmy like everyone else, if you don't like what I post either report it or get over it

Option 2 definitely, when our resident backward ideology supporters come out so strongly in favour of banning another backwards ideology it's hard to just ignore it

Mutant z

BTW its not up to Dublin but the whole country to enforce such a ban Dublin doesn't have the power to do anything but Ireland as a country certainly has.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

I know Muslims that don't even attend the mosque, let alone wear the burqa.

And can you estimate what percentage compared to the overall population of Muslims would behave that way? 1%, 5%, etc?

And where are they from? Their own cultural background determines the extent in which they apply those behaviors. There are many forms of Islam, and the application of different traditions. You make the case that there are many kinds of Muslims or different interpretations, but then lump them together in this post.

All religions have different levels. There are some fanatical christians that are every bit as dangerous as radical muslims. I always thought that Buddhism was fairly innocuous until the radical Buddists started murdering Rohinga.

And? What? Comparisons with extremists in Catholicism has no relevance. We're not talking about extremists.

If the parents know that how their child will be educated they can decide if Ireland is for them. It would naturally filter out the more radical of all religions.

Radical Islam won't care, one way or another. We're not discussing those who follow radical/extreme Islam. We're talking about Islam in general.

And the fact is that the majority of Muslims coming into Europe are not seeking to embrace western culture. They're coming for economic reasons. There is no view that their own original culture is wrong... and so, why would they encourage a different view in their children, simply because they're in Ireland?

I'm surprised to see hijabs brought up, they're just headscarves. Irish women wore them for many years.
Some of them are really pretty looking as well!

Discodog

So ban the burqa but keep this legal ?

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

So ban the burqa but keep this legal ?

So you would favor banning all of it?

I certainly would.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

And can you estimate what percentage compared to the overall population of Muslims would behave that way? 1%, 5%, etc?

And where are they from? Their own cultural background determines the extent in which they apply those behaviors. There are many forms of Islam, and the application of different traditions. You make the case that there are many kinds of Muslims or different interpretations, but then lump them together in this post.



And? What? Comparisons with extremists in Catholicism has no relevance. We're not talking about extremists.



Radical Islam won't care, one way or another. We're not discussing those who follow radical/extreme Islam. We're talking about Islam in general.

And the fact is that the majority of Muslims coming into Europe are not seeking to embrace western culture. They're coming for economic reasons. There is no view that their own original culture is wrong... and so, why would they encourage a different view in their children, simply because they're in Ireland?

So we ban a garment that only a microscopic number in Ireland wear & still allow hoodies, baseball caps, balaclavas etc :rolleyes:

However, the 1,900 figure is reportedly a significant over-inflation of the initial figures released by the French secret service, who were charged with collecting this data. It originally found that only 367 women wore the burqa. This represents an even lower percentage of the population: 0.01% of the French Muslim population, and 0.00058% of the general population

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/what-is-the-burqa-and-how-many-muslim-women-actually-wear-it/

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

So we ban a garment that only a microscopic number in Ireland wear & still allow hoodies, baseball caps, balaclavas etc :rolleyes:

Except that I didn't make that statement. You're reaching. Perhaps deal with what I have written?

However, the 1,900 figure is reportedly a significant over-inflation of the initial figures released by the French secret service, who were charged with collecting this data. It originally found that only 367 women wore the burqa. This represents an even lower percentage of the population: 0.01% of the French Muslim population, and 0.00058% of the general population

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/what-is-the-burqa-and-how-many-muslim-women-actually-wear-it/

So... the population is low, so we shouldn't discuss it?

And the fact is that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I'm amazed at the short-sighted viewpoints here. They are a minority now, and likely will remain a minority, however, I have stated previously why I feel it should be banned.... perhaps take a look and deal with that?

Wibbs

Discodog wrote: »

So would you adopt the French model ? If so then every religious symbol has to be removed from every school. Why is it dangerous to allow people to wear what they want ?

I would follow the French model. Get shot of all of it. And it's little enough to do with "wearing what they want". Their "choice" to not wear it is limited within that culture, the wearing of it is a clear cultural and political statement about that culture. We're not talking jokey tee shirt here.

Discodog wrote: »

There are some fanatical christians that are every bit as dangerous as radical muslims.

Yeah I must have missed the news of radical Christians mowing down people in trucks, going on stabbing sprees, blowing themselves up in crowds and threatening violence on on anyone who questions their religious saviour. It's been a good while since Christians were doing that on any sort of level.

If the parents know that how their child will be educated they can decide if Ireland is for them. It would naturally filter out the more radical of all religions.

You can't be serious... Many of the parents quite simply don't care. They'll pressure the local schools to bend to their cultural will out of "tolerance", or they'll set up their own schools. Have you been looking at Europe over the last decades? Now I can understand the humanity involved with those who believe in the tolerance of western liberal societies, but the naivete in view is kinda crazy when it's right there in front of them played out in every single European country that has had a large influx of people from non European cultures. With the extra cultural colour you get a lot of social problems. Shoot me down in flames, but I'd really prefer if Ireland doesn't follow this same utterly stupid path just to look "tolerant". It's not too late, yet.

So ban the burqa but keep this legal ?

I'd restrict that too. Try walking into a bank wearing that.

bluewolf wrote:

I'm surprised to see hijabs brought up, they're just headscarves. Irish women wore them for many years.
Some of them are really pretty looking as well!

Aye, there's some confusion on this. I'd not ban headscarves. The niqab and burkas would be the types I have issue with. The chador would be a grey area for me.

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

So you would favor banning all of it?

I certainly would.

So how would your Stazi monitor & enforce the law? Do you get banned for carrying sunglasses or just wearing them ? It would be fun when the next beast from the east arrives. Hundreds arrested for keeping out the cold :pac:

LirW

Discodog wrote: »

So ban the burqa but keep this legal ?

Austria did it, it banned Burqas but in order to keep it non-discriminating they banned all face covers. The thing is though that there are a lot of cyclists in the cities and winters are terribly cold, so many of them pull their scarfes up to cover mouth and noses. In the year it was brought in no Burqa was penalised (because it's not really worn) but plenty of cyclists.

Discodog

Wibbs wrote: »

I would follow the French model. Get shot of all of it. And it's little enough to do with "wearing what they want". Their "choice" to not wear it is limited within that culture, the wearing of it is a clear cultural and political statement about that culture. We're not talking jokey tee shirt here.

Yeah I must have missed the news of radical Christians mowing down people in trucks, going on stabbing sprees, blowing themselves up in crowds and threatening violence on on anyone who questions their religious saviour. It's been a good while since Christians were doing that on any sort of level.

You can't be serious... Many of the parents quite simply don't care. They'll pressure the local schools to bend to their cultural will out of "tolerance", or they'll set up their own schools. Have you been looking at Europe over the last decades? Now I can understand the humanity involved with those who believe in the tolerance of western liberal societies, but the naivete in view is kinda crazy when it's right there in front of them played out in every single European country that has had a large influx of people from non European cultures. With the extra cultural colour you get a lot of social problems. Shoot me down in flames, but I'd really prefer if Ireland doesn't follow this same utterly stupid path just to look "tolerant". It's not too late, yet.

I'd restrict that too. Try walking into a bank wearing that.

Aye, there's some confusion on this. I'd not ban headscarves. The niqab and burkas would be the types I have issue with. The chador would be a grey area for me.

I actually find your posts on this subject disappointing. In all my years on Boards I would of viewed you as wise, sensible & moderate.