Has Gaelic Football lost it's appeal?

ArielAtom

Dannyriver wrote: »

ArielAtom wrote: »

As I said, I watch a lot of both and my observations are that football is more tactical, it's an observation, it's not a slight on either sport. I love watching both for different reasons.

I understand that but I'm making the point that you are wrong , possession is paramount in the modern hurling game and working the ball up the field from the back has replaced the long ball system that you maligned in your original post.

I think you may be talking about the elite teams here, I am talking about from club hurling as well. You are obviously a hurling person, don't take it as me being critical of the way the sport is played. It is an observation of both county and club hurling. SO you're point in me being wrong is wrong itself.

robbiezero

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think you may be talking about the elite teams here, I am talking about from club hurling as well. You are obviously a hurling person, don't take it as me being critical of the way the sport is played. It is an observation of both county and club hurling. SO you're point in me being wrong is wrong itself.

ya club football is more tactical than club hurling. you certainly wouldn't see the likes or the above video clip in club hurling thankfully.

blanch152

irishguitarlad wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSLHP23qJpI Great video on the state of gaelic football.

To be honest, I found it quite difficult to get past the image of some teenager on the Xbox in his living-room talking to the lads on Wayne's World so the video quickly got boring and I stopped after about five minutes.

Fann Linn

nice_guy80 wrote: »

in those previous decades successful counties weren't getting huge sums of money centrally from the GAA in order to run their underage and games development and to improve standards across the whole county.


how many full time coaches do Dublin have?
and full time staff in their games development office?
they even have a full time primary schools coordinator.

Is any of your rant Dublin's fault?
A 'yes' or 'no' will do.

Dannyriver

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think you may be talking about the elite teams here, I am talking about from club hurling as well. You are obviously a hurling person, don't take it as me being critical of the way the sport is played. It is an observation of both county and club hurling. SO you're point in me being wrong is wrong itself.

Of course I am , any sport played badly is not a true reflection of what the game is about. We don t judge the state of soccer or Rugby by basing our opinions on watching Bray Wanderers in the LOI or Dolphin in the AIL . I'm absolutely sure you are right that hurling at club level [bar a few a the top] is still relying on shoulder to shoulder and the long ball game. But at inter county level there are at least 8 teams playing fast skillful hurling that builds from the back in the same way football does. The difference being where it's a basic skill to hand pass from the back in football it is exhilarating when done so in hurling due to the speed and accuracy needed and of course the size of the sliothar.

The high horse brigade

Fann Linn wrote: »

Is any of your rant Dublin's fault?
A 'yes' or 'no' will do.

The usual deflection. A simple acknowledgment by the Dublin fans that they have an unfair advantage will do. Dublin are professional, they have taken the game to the next level, the rest of the counties are struggling to keep up.

ArielAtom

“Has Gaelic football list it’s appeal”. I’ll leave that there for any poster that does not understand the question.

Fann Linn

No deflection at all. In fact no complaints on this side of the house.

Just wondering why no one raised the issue of all those unfair advantages Dublin have had over the past 15/20 years, or was it of no concern when Dublin were winning nothing.

Btw, I see the Dublin over 40s team are in the All Ireland Final on Saturday. Perhaps this financial doping stretches back to the Heffo days of the 70s.

shockframe

As bad as the Magherafelt video is why is there a constant mention of Jim Mcguiness in the supposed decline of Football.

Donegal played some smart top class football in 2012. They weren't the first team to be defensive and they won't be the last.

Slattsy

Fann Linn wrote: »

No deflection at all. In fact no complaints on this side of the house.

Just wondering why no one raised the issue of all those unfair advantages Dublin have had over the past 15/20 years, or was it of no concern when Dublin were winning nothing.

Btw, I see the Dublin over 40s team are in the All Ireland Final on Saturday. Perhaps this financial doping stretches back to the Heffo days of the 70s.

Im going to join that team......in 5 years.
Might get a free car and all meals delivered to me :pac:

Gael85

Slattsy wrote: »

Im going to join that team......in 5 years.
Might get a free car and all meals delivered to me :pac:

Free Dominos? 😉

blanch152

The high horse brigade wrote: »

The usual deflection. A simple acknowledgment by the Dublin fans that they have an unfair advantage will do. Dublin are professional, they have taken the game to the next level, the rest of the counties are struggling to keep up.

What is unfair about the advantage?

It is not unfair that the kids of Dublin are appropriately supported. It is not unfair that the population imbalances remain as they were before, it is natural.

Slattsy

Gael85 wrote: »

Free Dominos? ��

With all our money, surely Dublin GAA can afford daily Patrick Guilbaud deliveries.

ArielAtom

robbiezero wrote: »

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think you may be talking about the elite teams here, I am talking about from club hurling as well. You are obviously a hurling person, don't take it as me being critical of the way the sport is played. It is an observation of both county and club hurling. SO you're point in me being wrong is wrong itself.

ya club football is more tactical than club hurling. you certainly wouldn't see the likes or the above video clip in club hurling thankfully.

A one off clip, I suppose “drive it up the field” never happens in club hurling!!!! Tactical no, but great to watch.

robbiezero

blanch152 wrote: »

Sure that is the reason behind most of the threads around here - Get Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/comment-dublin-shouldnt-concern-themselves-with-the-joyless-dismal-illinformed-criticism-aimed-at-them-37300336.html

Liked this article about it.

Wow. I almost got diabetes from reading that. I haven't much time for MacKenna and his bitter vitriol about the money Dublin are getting, but this is the other extreme.

Watching Ciaran Kilkenny, the ginger Modric, unlocking doors and facilitating beauty

Good god. A hugely effective player yes, ginger Modric facilitating beauty - no.

Football has many significant issues: A team setting new standards in excellence, a county attracting new recruits to the game, are not among them

Dublins dominance however much people might disagree on the reasons for it is quite a significant issue for the game with people turning away in their droves and it looks like it will only get worse.

And so he returned to conduct that beautiful Sky Blue symphony, a soaring aria

Did he even watch the All-Ireland final. A well executed process it was. A soaring aria, it was not.

tritium

patmac wrote: »

Things have changed a lot, maybe it's me, maybe I'm getting old but being from Westmeath to get to a Leinster Final would have been a huge occasion but we did it twice in a row 2015 and 2016, I went to the first one I could barely watch the second one on television. I think we are the last team to beat Dublin in Leinster outside of Meath in 2004. It's not a level playing field especially in Leinster. Some may bemoan people like me banging on about population and financial advantages that Dublin have but at the end of the day we just won't watch it and move on to other things.
I cannot remember an All-Ireland final that I or anyone I spoke to had as little interest in.

But the problem here isn’t Dublin, it’s a Leinster that is chock full of teams that can’t compete with the best teams in the country. And that problem greatly predates this current Dublin team. Basically Leinster football with the exception of Dublin is very poor overall.

If Dublin were the great distortion then all those Leinster teams would be sneaking in through the back door and looking competitive when we get to the business end of the all Ireland. In fact they look utterly out of the championship. Kildare are starting to show shoots of something but it’s not that long ago that they shipped 7 goals against Kerry. Meath are a mess at the moment.

The only way to make Leinster competitive imho would be to invest money and to be fair the GAA are looking to rebalance this. That’s however will take time, the same as it has with Dublin. It will also require a long term plan for these counties

aroundthehouse

based on this, yes Football has lost its appeal and a lot more with it....

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/derry-slaughtneil-magherafelt-176507

Niles Crane

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/paul-earley-football-needs-more-contests-for-the-ball-1.3624740

Paul Earley: Football needs more contests for the ball

Ex-Roscommon star favours 45-metre kick-outs and tweaks to black card

Seán Moran


As the debate about the future of football picks up momentum, Paul Earley has called for a more widespread consultation process to establish what the game’s stakeholders want and adds that he favours the 45-metre kick-out and tweaks to the black card.


Earley’s credentials are extensive. The former Roscommon player, who was the first Gaelic footballer to try his hand at Australian rules, is one of the GAA’s most highly-qualified coaches and was a key member of the Football Review Committee as well as managing Ireland’s International Rules team in 2013 and ’14.


He was speaking to The Irish times, having completed the weekend’s Pink Ribbon Tour to aid breast cancer research and accepted that the football season just passed hadn’t been vintage.


“It was disappointing but for a handful of matches. For instance of the Super 8s (All-Ireland quarter-finals), only five of the 12 ended in a margin of three points or less and the other seven were very one-sided. There were a few exciting matches but they were the exception rather than the rule.”


He echoes calls by a number of people, including former Dublin player-manager Tony Hanahoe, for a central committee to review the game and to decide what direction it should take.


At present Croke Park has asked counties to submit proposals for rule changes but Earley isn’t convinced this is a sufficiently thorough canvass.
“If the county boards have conducted research to find out what the broad view of a county is, that would be fine but if it’s just an administration view I think it needs to be broader.


“The Football Review Committee started with that and decided to look to the public to get a steer and through the website we got 3,000 submissions from the public and players. The consensus was that they wanted to see high catching, long-range kicking and score-taking; they were the key ones.”

One of the FRC recommendations was the mark, which has been part of the game in the past two seasons and the consensus would be that it has been an addition to the game, encouraging high catching between the 45s.
“No doubt,” says Earley. “We proposed it but it didn’t get passed because it got 60 per cent [as opposed to two-thirds – a restriction since relaxed] but subsequently it was accepted.
“You could expand that and have all kick-outs over the 45, which creates more contests and should result in more catches.
Great fielders

“If it’s a core skill people want to see more and it is a major tradition then we need to encourage it and I would be in favour of requiring the kick-out to go beyond the 45. Opponents say, ‘ah, that won’t work at club level’. If that’s the problem, simply change the rule on kick-outs and like in the women’s game, use the 20-metre line for kicking out.”
That requirement for all kick-outs to pass the 45 is now used in the international game, an initiative that arose when Earley was Ireland manager.


“It came about by accident. After my first year involved when the AFL sent over the indigenous team and we beat them comprehensively the Aussies wanted to make rule changes and they wanted to get their big ruck men involved in the game.


“I spoke to Pat Daly [GAA director of games], who said that they wanted a throw-up in the middle after every score and I said that would be madness because there are so many scores there’d be stoppages all the time and proposed instead to facilitate the big men in their game by making every kick-out go over the 45, which in theory was an advantage to them.
“They accepted that and it was good because we were forced to plan for it the following year and did a lot of work. As it has turned out, Ireland have been more dominant under the kick-out in general, which highlights the fact that we have some great fielders in the game.
“Hurling has had a great year. One of the reasons I believe is that there is a contest for the ball every 20 seconds and people love to watch the contest. None of us want to see the ball being moved side-to-side, over-and-back and over-and-back, let’s be honest. The contest is what the games have been built on. I believe we need to encourage that in Gaelic football and the kick-out over 45 metres would do that.
“It would also encourage high fielding and cut out the laboured build-up with so much hand passing because the possession game comes from the short kick-out, players retreating and then teams holding the ball through the middle. You’re also just one kick away from the scoring zone when you make the catch so it becomes a more exciting prospect.”


He feels that the black card has been effective in a number of respects but that it needs refinement.


“There are still some contentious issues around the black card, such as deliberate fouling at the end of games when it loses its bite as a punishment. Maybe some of the other FRC proposals such as bringing frees forward could be considered in those circumstances.


Paul Earley took part in the Pink Ribbon tour at the weekend to raise funds for breast cancer research. Donations are still being taken at pink-ribbon-tour.everydayhero.do.

The 45 metre kick out illustrates the complete nonsense stakeholders bring to the table.

What does a team do if they're playing into a wind?
Have the ball thrown up at every kick out for a half each?.
What about someone struggling for power or underage.
Are players supposed to stand and wait for a kick bouncing over the line and can an opposition player only nip in and steal it?.

Other nonsense suggestions are the players having to remain forward.
Imagine a back breaking and his market having to stop at a white line as too many players retreated... Would be farcical to watch and also police.

The simplest solution would be to eliminate hand passing.
It would be one small adjustment requiring no massive tweaks to refereeing, teams sitting deep would struggle to kick it out on a counter and you could press teams higher up who are trying to retain possession while bringing the real skills back to the fore.

Niles Crane

gilberto_eire wrote: »

The 45 metre kick out illustrates the complete nonsense stakeholders bring to the table.

What does a team do if they're playing into a wind?
Have the ball thrown up at every kick out for a half each?.
What about someone struggling for power or underage.
Are players supposed to stand and wait for a kick bouncing over the line and can an opposition player only nip in and steal it?.

Other nonsense suggestions are the players having to remain forward.
Imagine a back breaking and his market having to stop at a white line as too many players retreated... Would be farcical to watch and also police.

The simplest solution would be to eliminate hand passing.
It would be one small adjustment requiring no massive tweaks to refereeing, teams sitting deep would struggle to kick it out on a counter and you could press teams higher up who are trying to retain possession while bringing the real skills back to the fore.

Elimnating handpassing altogether is much dafter than anything else being proposed

You need to have some amount of hadpassing as a game with only long kicking allowed would mean the game would lack any precision and just be endless hit and hope kicking of the ball.

A huge amount of of scores are got form a ball being handpassed back to a forward who kicks the ball over the bar.

Dannyriver

Niles Crane wrote: »

Elimnating handpassing altogether is much dafter than anything else being proposed

You need to have some amount of hadpassing as a game with only long kicking allowed would mean the game would lack any precision and just be endless hit and hope kicking of the ball.

A huge amount of of scores are got form a ball being handpassed back to a forward who kicks the ball over the bar.

Agreed but they should return to the idea of using the fist as opposed to palm.

Ceist_Beag

For every negative story published there is a positive story waiting to get out. To counter the Slaughtneil debacle at the weekend, Kerins O'Rahillys beat Dr Crokes at the weekend on a scoreline of 3-18 to 2-17! It's a shame we can't take a leaf out of the hurling fraternity and promote the good news stories a bit more!

BarryD2

The administrators and players can tinker all they want but ultimately it'll be down to the public and punters to give their verdict. I think it's fair to say that what the punter wants are games that are competitive, a season where a number of teams are in even contention and everyone thinks they may be in with a fair chance. The standards of the game, the rules are less important, reffing is to the extent that it's applied fairly.

Currently, the county game and AI does not deliver the above, so people are voting with their feet and wallets.

One way of introducing more punter interest into the current AI is an open All Ireland draw, no seeding, no backdoor, no draws with results on the day. Straight knockout. By all means have separate competition(s) for those knocked out early to give more games. But at least with above, every dog can have it's day and smaller counties would feel that the odds aren't stacked again them quite so heavily. So what if Mayo come against Dublin in the 1st round or Tyrone v Kerry. There's always next year and the toss side of this is that some other counties might have an easier draw and progress further. It would certainly bring back a strong element of interest and excitement.

Bonniedog

aroundthehouse wrote: »

based on this, yes Football has lost its appeal and a lot more with it....

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/derry-slaughtneil-magherafelt-176507

Saw that. Dreadful stuff but while Slaughtneil's keep ball was farcical to watch they were playing a team which with a strong wind and a point down coming to half time totally refused to leave their own half or try to turn Slaughtneil over! Slaughtneil were under no obligation to entertain anyone least of all a totally negative joke of a team. Dublin do same but obviously Dublin have far better players and the ability not only to counter this bullsh1t but to create openings.

This is exactly the type of cr@p that McGuinness was advocating for Tyrone in the AI final. It begs the question: how in the name of jaysus do teams like Magherafelt and there are hundreds of them at all levels from minor to inter county senior expect to win anything? Or do they even care?


The nightmare scenario of course is that if a negatve team does steal a lead then they will reduce the game to a farce. What would Tyrone have done had they led by 5/6 points at half time in the final?


We are close to seeing a 0 - 2 to 0- 2 draw someday soon.


Anyway, we can look forward to Cork and Dublin serving up proper competitive sporting entertainment on Sunday.

Bonniedog

BarryD2 wrote: »

The administrators and players can tinker all they want but ultimately it'll be down to the public and punters to give their verdict. I think it's fair to say that what the punter wants are games that are competitive, a season where a number of teams are in even contention and everyone thinks they may be in with a fair chance. The standards of the game, the rules are less important, reffing is to the extent that it's applied fairly.

Currently, the county game and AI does not deliver the above, so people are voting with their feet and wallets.

One way of introducing more punter interest into the current AI is an open All Ireland draw, no seeding, no backdoor, no draws with results on the day. Straight knockout. By all means have separate competition(s) for those knocked out early to give more games. But at least with above, every dog can have it's day and smaller counties would feel that the odds aren't stacked again them quite so heavily. So what if Mayo come against Dublin in the 1st round or Tyrone v Kerry. There's always next year and the toss side of this is that some other counties might have an easier draw and progress further. It would certainly bring back a strong element of interest and excitement.

I would agree with the straight knockout. but apropos the references to the Derry SFC game, it is not the fault of creative teams - Dublin, Mayo, Kerry, and Galway and Kildare to a growing extent - if others choose an almost completely negative and cynical approach to the game.

The Lost Sheep

BarryD2 wrote: »

The administrators and players can tinker all they want but ultimately it'll be down to the public and punters to give their verdict. I think it's fair to say that what the punter wants are games that are competitive, a season where a number of teams are in even contention and everyone thinks they may be in with a fair chance. The standards of the game, the rules are less important, reffing is to the extent that it's applied fairly.

Currently, the county game and AI does not deliver the above, so people are voting with their feet and wallets.

One way of introducing more punter interest into the current AI is an open All Ireland draw, no seeding, no backdoor, no draws with results on the day. Straight knockout. By all means have separate competition(s) for those knocked out early to give more games. But at least with above, every dog can have it's day and smaller counties would feel that the odds aren't stacked again them quite so heavily. So what if Mayo come against Dublin in the 1st round or Tyrone v Kerry. There's always next year and the toss side of this is that some other counties might have an easier draw and progress further. It would certainly bring back a strong element of interest and excitement.

An open draw all ireland with no back door no seeding just wouldnt help most sides. Yes there would be the odd shock but what benefit, other than some smaller/weaker counties getting through a few rounds with luck of draw, is there with this in place?
Would inter county players really want this?

Mehapoy

It seems to be the aim in hurling is to get your forwards into space and create scoring opportunities while in football its not to give posession up.
Why don't they introduce a proper tackle, like the intl rules, that way players are punished for holding onto posession and there wont be the mess of players taking the ball into contact and all the pulling and dragging that involves. The kick out going over 45 metres would be worth it too.
Should be increasing the no of points a goal is worth too so teams might actualy practise and plan to get goals, at th moment the keeper is only there to restart thr game after a point at this stage.

BarryD2

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

An open draw all ireland with no back door no seeding just wouldnt help most sides. Yes there would be the odd shock but what benefit, other than some smaller/weaker counties getting through a few rounds with luck of draw, is there with this in place?
Would inter county players really want this?

Inter county players very likely wouldn't like an open draw, straight knockout, particularly those in the stronger counties.

But their views ultimately matter? If there are steadily falling attendances at matches, do they want to play before diminishing crowds? Do the county boards and GAA HQ want diminishing crowds?

D9Male

I agree that football at intercounty level, and increasingly at senior club level in Dublin, is getting tough to watch. I have been playing and watching gaelic football for 30 years and this is the first year that I have been struggling to watch Dublin games (I think I only attended two this year).

I think talk of Dublin is a red herring - maybe something needs to be done about Dublin's dominance, but I watched Tyrone Monaghan last month and the game was rubbish and that was nothing to do with the Dubs.

It is tough to know what to change. The mark has helped, but it is just a minor thing. I agree that any type of restrictions on kickouts or where players can stand/run won't work.

To my mind, the main issues with the game are with the tackle and with the handpass. It is too difficult to regain possession because of both of these.

The two things that come to mind are a complete overhaul of the tackle so it is like Australian Rules football, and a restriction on handpasses, so that only one is allowed consecutively.

I can see issues with both of these, but I think we're fooling ourselves if we don't recognise the issues in the current game.

Niles Crane

I think restricting consecutive handpassing could work well I didn't for a while but once you know that is the case the attacking moves will be set up with mainly the intent of sending direct ball into the forwards to avoid being caught out with a rule restricting on handpassing.

I think a mark all round the field like in Aussie Rules would encourage teams to play the ball long more often and hit proper footpasses of 20-30 yards more often.

I think the game should have went to 13 a side about 15 years ago when it was obvious how much fitness levels had increased.

The problem of course is almost certainly managers would interpret these changes in a nagative fashion and become even more defensive so I still think a ban on the blanket defence may be the only real thing to bring about change but more long kicking would be good for the game there is nothing as enjoyable as along ball into a big full forward.