Has Gaelic Football lost it's appeal?

The Talking Bread

Tyrone v Meath, Meath v Longford, Waterford v Wexford, Armagh v Roscommon, Kildare v Mayo, Kildare v Monaghan, Kildare v Galway, Kerry v Monaghan, Leitrim v New York, Monaghan v Tyrone and Offaly v Clare and Kildare v Longford probably the best games of the Summer.
Outside of that, apart from the whole Carlow and Fermanagh narratives, it was all very forgettable.

tayto lover

I found the game to be very poor skill wise on Sunday. The Tyrone shooting in particular was hit and hope. After the Dubs got in front there was only one winner and they cruised to the title.

The craic in the pubs before the game was poor. You usually get a good bit of banter but not on Sunday and the Dubs were not there in numbers until late.

puzl

Having one team so dominant would be fine on its own. Throw on top of that the often expressed frustration with this current style of play and I admit I struggle to watch a full match. If this continues for too long it could hurt football's appeal, if it hasn't already.

Fann Linn

tayto lover wrote: »

I found the game to be very poor skill wise on Sunday. The Tyrone shooting in particular was hit and hope. After the Dubs got in front there was only one winner and they cruised to the title.

The craic in the pubs before the game was poor. You usually get a good bit of banter but not on Sunday and the Dubs were not there in numbers until late.

Dubs are known for being late to games. Maybe someone should start a thread on it.

coolshannagh28

Dannyriver wrote: »

Because it's a pretty basic skill set to practice, and it encourages the blanket defense.

Running and handpassing favours athletes , higher value skills are being omitted , the game needs to be tweaked right now and could be transformed.

rm75

Dots1982 wrote: »

Next 10 years will be a Dublin Kerry carve up so nothing is going to change.

If it wasn’t for mayo these problems would have been a bigger deal before now.

Dublin are a great team and an enjoyable team to watch. It’s just we have only one Dublin and their level is incredible

Yeah agree with this, very excited over this possibility i have to say. We are on the cusp of a golden era for our great game

You would hope the likes of Tyrone and Galway can up their game as well. Be rare you would have more then 3 teams as realistic challengers in football or hurling.

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Tyrone v Meath, Meath v Longford, Waterford v Wexford, Armagh v Roscommon, Kildare v Mayo, Kildare v Monaghan, Kildare v Galway, Kerry v Monaghan, Leitrim v New York, Monaghan v Tyrone and Offaly v Clare and Kildare v Longford probably the best games of the Summer.
Outside of that, apart from the whole Carlow and Fermanagh narratives, it was all very forgettable.

The fact that there isn't a provincial final, provincial semi-final, All Ireland final or semi final and only 25% of the "super" 8's in that list speaks volumes.

I think the Championship will be well served by focusing a bit more, where possible on the qualifiers, from tv coverage POV (but in fairness I know it's almost impossible given the fixture congestion)

The Talking Bread

rm75 wrote: »

Yeah agree with this, very excited over this possibility i have to say. We are on the cusp of a golden era for our great game

You would hope the likes of Tyrone and Galway can up their game as well. Be rare you would have more then 3 teams as realistic challengers in football or hurling.

Laugh if you like but Kildare will be ever more in that third level with Galway, Donegal and Tyrone with Kerry just below Dublin, and the omission of Mayo is silly, they will be back. Monaghan probably had their best chance to get to an AI final,

robbiezero

rm75 wrote: »

Yeah agree with this, very excited over this possibility i have to say. We are on the cusp of a golden era for our great game

You would hope the likes of Tyrone and Galway can up their game as well. Be rare you would have more then 3 teams as realistic challengers in football or hurling.

We may be, we may not be. Minor success even to that degree is no guarantee that it will transfer to senior success especially into a senior team in serious need of a bit of rebuilding

I would have thought you would fairly regularly have 3 or more challengers in football. The last decade at different times would have seen Galway, Kildare, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo, Kerry, Dublin, Meath, Cork and maybe even Down.
This decade you have really only had 4 and I think we are down to 1 for next year.

The_Honeybadger

Nermal wrote: »

Why is skillful, patient, probing buildup by hand-passing so hated?

I don't understand why hoofing 50/50 balls into the middle of the field is 'exciting', but organised play is not. It's weird attitude.

I find the hand passing very boring tbh. It’s incredibly effective and I understand why teams do it but it’s ugly and hard to watch. It’s a consequence of packed defences where kick passing is totally ineffective now so teams are left with no option.

Hoofball is also a bit unfair. There is a middle ground. That kickout that Cluxton hit on Sunday for McCaffery to run on to was one of the best plays I’ve seen in years and is a good example of the excitement that a kicking game can bring. It was magical and completely caught Tyrone out, Beggan did a similar thing v Kerry this year. That’s the kind of thing that gets the crowd on its feet, not 30 hand passes in a row before working in in to the D for a tap over.

legendary.xix

Dublin are the team to reignite the Railway Cup. Have Dublin competing against the other 4 provinces. It's the competition to embrace the level Dublin have brought to the game.

rm75

robbiezero wrote: »

We may be, we may not be. Minor success even to that degree is no guarantee that it will transfer to senior success especially into a senior team in serious need of a bit of rebuilding

I would have thought you would fairly regularly have 3 or more challengers in football. The last decade at different times would have seen Galway, Kildare, Tyrone, Armagh, Mayo, Kerry, Dublin, Meath, Cork and maybe even Down.
This decade you have really only had 4 and I think we are down to 1 for next year.

The counties you have listed were never all challenging at the same time. Meath, Kildare, Dublin and Galway were not serious challengers when Armagh and Tyrone were challenging Kerry for example.

I would dispute that (other then the early to mid 90's with the ulster teams) it would be normal to have more then 3 realistic challengers.

In the late 70's early 80's it was Kerry and Dublin who were then replaced by Offaly. Not hugely different then now to be honest.

The Rape of Lucretia

I think so. It was always the poor relation of the team field games, being fundamentally flawed and at the lowest level of skill. Modern levels of fitness and strategy have exposed this to an even greater degree at the top levels, which tends to set people perception of the game. At the lower levels it is still fundamentally competitive and provides low level entertainment to spectators with an allegiance to a team, but absolutely zero interest for neutrals. There will always be some traditional supporters of it, but it is very hard to see any solution to improve it as a sport.

Straight Talker

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Did hurling lose its appeal when Kilkenny were so dominant? Did soccer lose its appeal when Man United/Barcelona were winning the league every year? Did tennis lose its appeal when Sampras or Federer was doing it? Tiger Woods in golf. Davis or Hendry in snooker. Phil Taylor in darts.

It's up to the rest to get better. People in general love to watch and admire teams or individuals excel. Except Dublin... for reasons of the sour grape variety.

I think there really needs to be a limit, on the amount of sponsorship and government funding that Dublin receives.Finances are not the only factor behind Dublins success, but they are nonetheless quite a substantial factor.Sadly i fear the GAA won't act, until Dublin win 5 or 6 in a row.I mean look at a great GAA county like Offaly, who are left to rot in the sidelines.I doubt that we will see a company like AIG sponsoring the likes of Wicklow Laois Leitrim or Carlow anytime soon either.So all in all Dublins success is down to 1 A great football development structure. 2 Great management and coaching.3 Great players and 4 Several multi million euro notes.

Niles Crane

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think so. It was always the poor relation of the team field games, being fundamentally flawed and at the lowest level of skill. Modern levels of fitness and strategy have exposed this to an even greater degree at the top levels, which tends to set people perception of the game. At the lower levels it is still fundamentally competitive and provides low level entertainment to spectators with an allegiance to a team, but absolutely zero interest for neutrals. There will always be some traditional supporters of it, but it is very hard to see any solution to improve it as a sport.

Nice try man.I notice this is your first ever post in the GAA forum.

You may have had a point if there haven't been any top quality games ever but of course there have been loads of those like any other sport, 82,000 people went to Dublins first round matches in Leinster before Dublin were so much better than there competitors so clearly the game had some appeal to people as you don't get 82K going to matches at any sport too often in Ireland.

A few rule changes to get rid of the blanket defence and things would be fine.

dwayneshintzy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think so. It was always the poor relation of the team field games, being fundamentally flawed and at the lowest level of skill.

If you're comparing it to other "team field games"......what other sports does Gaelic football require a "lower level of skill" than? Other than hurling?

Danjamin1

legendary.xix wrote: »

Dublin are the team to reignite the Railway Cup. Have Dublin competing against the other 4 provinces. It's the competition to embrace the level Dublin have brought to the game.

You must have mentioned this proposal at least 6 times at this stage and not once has a single person agreed with you.

warofthebutton

Niles Crane wrote: »

One on one contests for the ball have been taken out of the game, one of the great things in the lead up to games years ago were all the one on one battles and who would get the better of them but this has been taken out of the game as it's very rare a long kick pass is sent where the corner forward, wing forward has to beat his man to the ball.That was the type of football I grew up playing and watching and it's all but disappeared.

I don't remember the 90's too well, but recently I watched the 96 All Ireland replay on Sky and I was amazed at how different a game it was. The skill execution was definitely poorer (especially shooting from anywhere past the 30)but what really struck me was how entertaining the 1 on 1 duels were. I think we underestimate how big a loss this is in modern football. Any modern game that has been deemed a classic (Kerry Mayo replay in 14, Dublin Kerry in 13, Mayo Dublin in last year's final) were ones that featured great individual duels. (e.g. Higgins vs O'Donoghue in limerick was incredible to watch). Any rule change that might facilitate a return to this should definitely be trialled.

legendary.xix

Danjamin1 wrote: »

You must have mentioned this proposal at least 6 times at this stage and not once has a single person agreed with you.

People need time to reflect on the idea. It's not going to happen overnight.

Danjamin1

legendary.xix wrote: »

People need time to reflect on the idea. It's not going to happen overnight.

Or more likely people recognise it as a poor idea. I know I wouldn't want to see my county team playing as part of a provincial team in the main tournament. Kerry & Mayo have pushed Dublin close in recent times, there's no need to amalgamate them with other counties if they can perform on their own.

As myself & others have pointed out the Dublin team is not drawing from a player pool of the total Dublin population, it's still restricted to the senior football teams of the clubs at the top level in the county. That's not that many players relative to some other counties. Cork has nearly as many registered players as Dublin so if population is the main advantage you might expect them to perform better.

Jaden

legendary.xix wrote: »

People need time to reflect on the idea. It's not going to happen overnight.

Back to HS with you.

robbiezero

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Or more likely people recognise it as a poor idea. I know I wouldn't want to see my county team playing as part of a provincial team in the main tournament. Kerry & Mayo have pushed Dublin close in recent times, there's no need to amalgamate them with other counties if they can perform on their own.

As myself & others have pointed out the Dublin team is not drawing from a player pool of the total Dublin population, it's still restricted to the senior football teams of the clubs at the top level in the county. That's not that many players relative to some other counties. Cork has nearly as many registered players as Dublin so if population is the main advantage you might expect them to perform better.

If comparing playing populations, I think it is fairer to count the number of adult footballers in the county rather than the number of senior clubs.
Tipperary has 28 senior hurling clubs, KK has 12 so the number of senior clubs does not necessarily have any bearing on the strength of the county.

Danjamin1

robbiezero wrote: »

If comparing playing populations, I think it is fairer to count the number of adult footballers in the county rather than the number of senior clubs.
Tipperary has 28 senior hurling clubs, KK has 12 so the number of senior clubs does not necessarily have any bearing on the strength of the county.

Fair enough but you could expand on that and say number of senior players playing in top tier competition in that case. You don’t tend to have too many players making the county team playing for the 3rd team at their club.

robbiezero

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Fair enough but you could expand on that and say number of senior players playing in top tier competition in that case. You don’t tend to have too many players making the county team playing for the 3rd team at their club.

For me, the more adult players you have available, the better your county team is likely to be all other things being equal.
Just to note, I'm not whining about Dublin have a playing population advantage - I'm not even sure if they do. I'd imagine Kerry, Cork and Mayo etc have fairly sizeable numbers of adult footballers too.
But I would note that Monaghan have probably a much smaller number than the above listed counties, so it really is a great achievement that they have been competitive at such a high level for as long as they have.

Danjamin1

robbiezero wrote: »

For me, the more adult players you have available, the better your county team is likely to be all other things being equal.
Just to note, I'm not whining about Dublin have a playing population advantage - I'm not even sure if they do. I'd imagine Kerry, Cork and Mayo etc have fairly sizeable numbers of adult footballers too.
But I would note that Monaghan have probably a much smaller number than the above listed counties, so it really is a great achievement that they have been competitive at such a high level for as long as they have.

Oh I agree with that. There definitely are playing population differences across the counties I just hate hearing how people like to include everyone and their granny in those numbers.

robbiezero

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Oh I agree with that. There definitely are playing population differences across the counties I just hate hearing how people like to include everyone and their granny in those numbers.

Ya, I get the point. But for me you have to even count the junior d players if you want to get an accurate comparison of the effect of playing population.

gerryg80

I think the appeal has gone slightly with one team so easily dominating the championship without getting out of third gear. I also think the GAA needs to realise that funding a county team that already has advantages re population & sponsorship deals etc is not going lead to an exciting championship.

Between 2005 and 2009, the government made €5m available to them and them alone. Between 2010 and 2014, in central games development money, per registered player, Tyrone got €21, Mayo €22, Kerry €19, while Dublin got €274.40. In that category, between 2007 and 2017, Dublin received €16.6m from the association, Tyrone were bang around the average of the rest at €560,000. When their 2016 accounts were leaked, they showed they'd spent €523,954 on office salaries and €134,557 on miscellaneous.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-gaelic-football-is-dying-and-if-the-dublin-problem-isnt-tackled-it-will-soon-be-in-the-ground-37282516.html

rm75

gerryg80 wrote: »

I think the appeal has gone slightly with one team so easily dominating the championship without getting out of third gear. I also think the GAA needs to realise that funding a county team that already has advantages re population & sponsorship deals etc is not going lead to an exciting championship.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-gaelic-football-is-dying-and-if-the-dublin-problem-isnt-tackled-it-will-soon-be-in-the-ground-37282516.html

Given Kerrys dominance at minor level would you say Dublins funding needs to be increased ?

gerryg80

rm75 wrote: »

Given Kerrys dominance at minor level would you say Dublins funding needs to be increased ?

Well clearly the €197,600 that Kerry received in 2016 has been put to better use, than the €1,463,400 that Dublin received for that same year :rolleyes:

blanch152

gerryg80 wrote: »

Well clearly the €197,600 that Kerry received in 2016 has been put to better use, than the €1,463,400 that Dublin received for that same year :rolleyes:

Last I checked, Kerry got €1.354m in grants in the year to end October 2017. They were also entitled to a share of the Munster grants of €1.26m.

Dublin got €1.978m in the same period.