Has Gaelic Football lost it's appeal?

gerryg80

rm75 wrote: »

Given Kerrys dominance at minor level would you say Dublins funding needs to be increased ?

Well clearly the €197,600 that Kerry received in 2016 has been put to better use, than the €1,463,400 that Dublin received for that same year :rolleyes:

blanch152

gerryg80 wrote: »

Well clearly the €197,600 that Kerry received in 2016 has been put to better use, than the €1,463,400 that Dublin received for that same year :rolleyes:

Last I checked, Kerry got €1.354m in grants in the year to end October 2017. They were also entitled to a share of the Munster grants of €1.26m.

Dublin got €1.978m in the same period.

BloodyBill

I think Football is in trouble on a few fronts. The battle between it 'going more soccer or Rugby ' has been won by Soccer. I don't want to over simplify the issue but I observed the sight of Ciaran Kilkenny continuously going laterally across the field. In rugby he'd be annihilated. In Gaelic football he isn't touched. No shoulders anymore and the constant throws...the black card farce and the dominance of Dublin. It's not good.
Even Kerry doing so well at minor is a mirage. Dublin dont push players at the minor grade..They just keep training them up and then slip in the diamonds when they are ready without the pressure of being superstar underage players.

Fann Linn

gerryg80 wrote: »

I think the appeal has gone slightly with one team so easily dominating the championship without getting out of third gear. I also think the GAA needs to realise that funding a county team that already has advantages re population & sponsorship deals etc is not going lead to an exciting championship.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-gaelic-football-is-dying-and-if-the-dublin-problem-isnt-tackled-it-will-soon-be-in-the-ground-37282516.html

Is that the same journalist who put posters on ignore when they disputed his figures?

The Talking Bread

FFS, I am sick of the conversations ON HERE about funding as they are generally petty, repetitive and posters that you don't agree with are treated with contempt if they dismiss your POV, (on both sides of the argument) but you would want to be one naive or reluctant or out of touch person to not acknowledge that there is a big correlation between Dublin's funding/commercial income etc and their ability to nurture their players, training, backroom staff etc etc.

There are so many facets to how players etc are positively influenced by being exposed to financial aid.


It baffles me that your average Dublin fan can't or doesn't want to even discuss this without mocking the idea. It isn't playing down the brilliance of the current crop of players but moreso a criticism of the GAA to continually ignore what is plain obvious. I am all for these teams and players becoming a bit more professional so I have no issue with Dublin for taking advantage of their opportunity but GAA not attempting to be more open or approachable about the issue is what irritates me.

I would like to see the GAA hierarchy come out and have a reasonable debate on the issue. I don't even think it is that much out of control at the minute as people like McKenna consistently mouth on about compared to what it could potentially be if it continues to incrementally divide Dublin from the rest, in the professional sense.

nice_guy80

Kevin McStay resigned as Roscommon manager this evening, more or less citing the lack of equitable funding for the county as one of the main reasons
and they are a county that reached the last 8 and won a provincial title last year!
from his resignation statement

Success is what we all crave but we must understand our reality too. While Roscommon is a proud football county, it is a small county with a limited playing pool and deficits in resources and facilities. The budget required to finance success at the highest level demands year-round attention. Facilities, Catering, Kit & Equipment, Professional expertise and, especially, Travel costs are major financial drainers and they are placing a massive burden on voluntary officers that is often overwhelming.

Dannyriver

The Talking Bread wrote: »

FFS, I am sick of the conversations ON HERE about funding as they are generally petty, repetitive and posters that you don't agree with are treated with contempt if they dismiss your POV, (on both sides of the argument) but you would want to be one naive or reluctant or out of touch person to not acknowledge that there is a big correlation between Dublin's funding/commercial income etc and their ability to nurture their players, training, backroom staff etc etc.

There are so many facets to how players etc are positively influenced by being exposed to financial aid.


It baffles me that your average Dublin fan can't or doesn't want to even discuss this without mocking the idea. It isn't playing down the brilliance of the current crop of players but moreso a criticism of the GAA to continually ignore what is plain obvious. I am all for these teams and players becoming a bit more professional so I have no issue with Dublin for taking advantage of their opportunity but GAA not attempting to be more open or approachable about the issue is what irritates me.

I would like to see the GAA hierarchy come out and have a reasonable debate on the issue. I don't even think it is that much out of control at the minute as people like McKenna consistently mouth on about compared to what it could potentially be if it continues to incrementally divide Dublin from the rest, in the professional sense.

Good point

pcuser

I will add my tuppence worth to this thread,

Im a Limerick man living in Kerry for many years, Its all football down here. In my opinion the only way people can enjoy football is if they are born in a football County (Not too many of them).

If you are not born in to a football County it is a very slow and at times boring sport to "Get in to" I have said that to people down here and they agree some bit. I always say the best game of football is worse than an average game of hurling.

I noticed when Limerick were playing the final this year the Kerry people were shouting for them to when and genuinely enthralled by the sport.

I cant say if Football is losing its appeal as I do not know enough about it, Maybe people realize that hurling is a much better game and football is a slow boring sport compared to it.

Stoner

The Talking Bread wrote:

It baffles me that your average Dublin fan can't or doesn't want to even discuss this without mocking the idea.

I've mentioned here more than once that funding should be addressed.

It is very difficult to discuss it when we have so many threads opened up on the issue, with spam accounts and WUMs.

It would be nice to talk about football and not have every thread littered with it. That's couldn't happen this year again.

It's not as if a thread has existed that supported decent debate on it without it being populated with spammy same old same old text from both sides

I remember talk about Dublin not producing natural footballers, there were no Dublin footballers in your list but you had Kildare ones.

These type of statements carry that air of superiority that some lads pick up, some shake it and some don't. It's the same superiority that some Dubs drip with too. It's roots are in the same place. It falls in line with thinking that there is an "average Dublin fan" that has a collective illogical opinion to challenge.

This attitude is hard to take I'd have to suck it up from some Kerry supporters or Cork/Tip/Kilkenny hurling supporters.

Particularly when Johnny Doyle and Early are offered as natural footballers versus none from Dublin.

Funding supports the fittness levels argument and imo your ingrained position on same.

So again I will offer that I think that the funding levels need to be addressed.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

pcuser wrote: »

I will add my tuppence worth to this thread,

Im a Limerick man living in Kerry for many years, Its all football down here. In my opinion the only way people can enjoy football is if they are born in a football County (Not too many of them).

If you are not born in to a football County it is a very slow and at times boring sport to "Get in to" I have said that to people down here and they agree some bit. I always say the best game of football is worse than an average game of hurling.

I noticed when Limerick were playing the final this year the Kerry people were shouting for them to when and genuinely enthralled by the sport.

I cant say if Football is losing its appeal as I do not know enough about it, Maybe people realize that hurling is a much better game and football is a slow boring sport compared to it.

There are far more football counties than hurling counties.

keepalive213

I'm not a GAA fan but I do listen to radio quite a lot so I would have an idea of who's winning etc...
I think that having a team as dominant as Dublin now are, has to be bad for the game. I'd imagine it would lead to less people travelling to games, reduced revenue, less interest in the sport.
If game results are a forgone conclusion counties will get jaded with having their ass handed to them.
I'm just glad it's over for another year.

I dont wholly buy into the financial/population argument. Yes it is a plus for Dublin to have a big pick and great sponsorship etc, but surely during the noughties when Dublin failed to win a single All Ireland during that whole decade (and only won one during the 90s too) that this financial and population advantage could easily apply to those teams?

We are possibly being a little ungracious on Jim Gavin who has to motivate and prepare the team before they go out on the field at the end of the day and also Pat Gilroy before him. And we are also forgetting that Dublin haven't exactly cleaned up at underage (they've had some success but haven't swept the board by any means).

What is to stop other top footballing counties from at least matching them in all honesty? Kerry have lost their way the last few years and maybe didnt blood enough youngsters and the same with Mayo. Cork have completely fallen off a cliff, Tyrone while competitive have been overly cagey against Dublin aside from last Sunday and Donegal have found life after Jim McGuinness very difficult.

Do Kildare or Meath have an excuse really? Or Galway?
I mean by the logic of sponsorship and population shortage Monaghan would have a good excuse to just down tools or accept their fate? Or perhaps little Carlow as they took to the field against their neighbours Kildare this summer?

Im not denying that Dublin have their advantages but they have always had these same advantages and i think some other counties should be far better than they are.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont wholly buy into the financial/population argument. Yes it is a plus for Dublin to have a big pick and great sponsorship etc, but surely during the noughties when Dublin failed to win a single All Ireland during that whole decade (and only won one during the 90s too) that this financial and population advantage could easily apply to those teams?

We are possibly being a little ungracious on Jim Gavin who has to motivate and prepare the team before they go out on the field at the end of the day and also Pat Gilroy before him. And we are also forgetting that Dublin haven't exactly cleaned up at underage (they've had some success but haven't swept the board by any means).

What is to stop other top footballing counties from at least matching them in all honesty? Kerry have lost their way the last few years and maybe didnt blood enough youngsters and the same with Mayo. Cork have completely fallen off a cliff, Tyrone while competitive have been overly cagey against Dublin aside from last Sunday and Donegal have found life after Jim McGuinness very difficult.

Do Kildare or Meath have an excuse really? Or Galway?
I mean by the logic of sponsorship and population shortage Monaghan would have a good excuse to just down tools or accept their fate? Or perhaps little Carlow as they took to the field against their neighbours Kildare this summer?

Im not denying that Dublin have their advantages but they have always had these same advantages and i think some other counties should be far better than they are.

The finance issue has only arisen in recent years though has it not especially in areas already mentioned here countless times so talking about 90s and even early noughties is irrelavent.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The finance issue has only arisen in recent years though has it not especially in areas already mentioned here countless times so talking about 90s and even early noughties is irrelavent.

Dublin have always had vast population and always had bigger sponsorship packages then the rest so your argument is nonsense. There was a proposal back in 2002 to split Dublin in 2 and yet they failed to win a single All Ireland that decade. Were thumped by Tyrone in 2008, Kerry in 2009. Lost to Laois and Westmeath in 2004 in Leinster.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/the-great-divide-should-dublin-be-split-in-two-36512040.html

Adam261

As much as Dublin fans would hate to hear, the issue around the funding difference between Dublin and all other counties needs to be addressed especially given their already enormous advantages!!

Optimalprimerib

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Did hurling lose its appeal when Kilkenny were so dominant? Did soccer lose its appeal when Man United/Barcelona were winning the league every year? Did tennis lose its appeal when Sampras or Federer was doing it? Tiger Woods in golf. Davis or Hendry in snooker. Phil Taylor in darts.

It's up to the rest to get better. People in general love to watch and admire teams or individuals excel. Except Dublin... for reasons of the sour grape variety.

Yes to all. If there is one competitor that far ahead of the pack, the sport becomes unwatchable. But it's not only Dublin. There is massive gaps throughout county football.

Years ago anything over a 5 point victory was a hammering. Now it's a close game. 10+ point victories are common and the new super 8 structure will make these gaps bigger.

Adam261

Adam261 wrote: »

As much as Dublin fans would hate to hear, the issue around the funding difference between Dublin and all other counties needs to be addressed especially given their already enormous advantages!!

I agree they are getting quite alot of funding for a fairly self sufficient county and that funding should be distributed as evenly as possible to give the smaller counties a chance.... but the likes of Kerry, Mayo, and the fairly densely populated traditional football counties cant use Dublins superior finance as an excuse for their failings. Dublins superior finance didnt for example cause Donie Vaughan to get himself sent off after John Small had just been red carded.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin have always had vast population and always had bigger sponsorship packages then the rest so your argument is nonsense. There was a proposal back in 2002 to split Dublin in 2 and yet they failed to win a single All Ireland that decade. Were thumped by Tyrone in 2008, Kerry in 2009. Lost to Laois and Westmeath in 2004 in Leinster.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/the-great-divide-should-dublin-be-split-in-two-36512040.html

But the finance issue has only really came up in recent years because Dublin are winning. Yes it was discussed then but not anywhere near the scale it is now by a lot of people. And my argument isnt nonsense it really has only become a major issue in recent years because Dublin got their crap together.

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But the finance issue has only really came up in recent years because Dublin are winning. Yes it was discussed then but not anywhere near the scale it is now by a lot of people. And my argument isnt nonsense it really has only become a major issue in recent years because Dublin got their crap together.

Yeah kinda my point too

However, i think the 90s and noughties are very much relevant and the reason Dublin (who previously won 21 all irelands up to 1983) only managed to win one All ireland between 1983 to 2011 (1995) is due to many reasons that didnt justify the money they were receiving and they still received far more per capita then the other counties back then. There was little to stop them being the juggernaut then as they are now if it was merely a case of money.

The financial model is a good argument for the likes of Longford, etc.in terms of long term competition .. but i dont think Kerry can use it as an excuse. I personally think while they will remain ultra competitive that they will be beaten if not next year then perhaps the year after.

Fann Linn

Adam261 wrote: »

As much as Dublin fans would hate to hear, the issue around the funding difference between Dublin and all other counties needs to be addressed especially given their already enormous advantages!!

Its not up to the Dublin Co. Board to address the finance issues. Its upto GAA HQ which have representatives from all counties and hold AGMs every year.

I'd be starting there if I had a problem with it.

nice_guy80

Fann Linn wrote: »

Its not up to the Dublin Co. Board to address the finance issues. Its upto GAA HQ which have representatives from all counties and hold AGMs every year.

I'd be starting there if I had a problem with it.

The gaa is run by full time officials now.
They decide where the money goes

nice_guy80

It has taken 15 years for the Dublin funding to reap full results

The 25 year olds on the Dublin panel would have been 10 year olds.
Think of what funded the coaching system they went through in schools, clubs (yes most coaches are volunteers) and most importantly the county scene

bruschi

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah kinda my point too

However, i think the 90s and noughties are very much relevant and the reason Dublin (who previously won 21 all irelands up to 1983) only managed to win one All ireland between 1983 to 2011 (1995) is due to many reasons that didnt justify the money they were receiving and they still received far more per capita then the other counties back then. There was little to stop them being the juggernaut then as they are now if it was merely a case of money.

The financial model is a good argument for the likes of Longford, etc.in terms of long term competition .. but i dont think Kerry can use it as an excuse. I personally think while they will remain ultra competitive that they will be beaten if not next year then perhaps the year after.

the game has changed hugely since then though to be honest. The scientific advances, knowledge about training etc, S&C specific college courses. Its hugely different.

However the biggest difference for me has been the full time coaching access available to Dublin and its clubs. Clubs in Dublin have grown massively and you know have many big clubs with their own full time coaches and with more funds than many counties. So effectively now, Dublin has miny county developments to input into its entire county set up. The donkey work for underage county teams etc is being done by the clubs, whereas in most other counties it is only done to that level when they are in the county set up. Its a huge advantage to them that is vastly different than 20+ years ago

bruschi

and as an aside to the above, Gaelic football has lost its appeal not only due to Dublin being dominant. I havent read through the thread, but its far from Dublin that is causing the full loss of appeal.

Niles Crane

bruschi wrote: »

and as an aside to the above, Gaelic football has lost its appeal not only due to Dublin being dominant. I havent read through the thread, but its far from Dublin that is causing the full loss of appeal.

Dublin is not really the big issue but unfortuntely the real issue is being constantly deflected because of Dublins dominance.

The last 2 days in Irish Independent and Irish Times Martin Breheny and Ciaran Murphy have both wrote articles about how the sport is in trouble, go to any GAA forum and there are constant threads about the game being in trouble and changes need to be mde yet the GAA really don't seem to be acting fast enough.It would be really helpful if the GAA actually came out and publicly stated that serious rule changes are going to be introduced, I could put up with this crap we've been enduring this decade if you felt there was some light at the end of the tunnel.

The problem with the GAA is that everything moves far too slowly and you feel that even if rule changes are suggested they won't be approved and we could be looking ath the same type of riubbish we've had to endure for the last decade for another 10 years or more and a whole generation of fans will be lost.

It was obvious what path the game was heading down for quite a while and yet the GAA sat on their arses and done nothing when the issues of over defensive styles of football being played and excessive handpassing should have been addressed a long time ago.

blanch152

bruschi wrote: »

and as an aside to the above, Gaelic football has lost its appeal not only due to Dublin being dominant. I havent read through the thread, but its far from Dublin that is causing the full loss of appeal.

When any team dominates a sport for a number of years, there is a loss of appeal. Whether it is Celtic in Scottish soccer or Kilkenny in hurling, we have seen this happen repeatedly.

It is easy therefore to blame Dublin for the loss of appeal. However, the problems of football are mostly linked to the effectiveness of defensive set-ups and counter-attacking.

It was interesting listening to the Sunday Game, and particularly to Lee Keegan and Michael Murphy who both seemed to agree that you wouldn't beat Dublin by playing a defensive-type game. If that is followed through, and we see a return to full forward pressing and 15 on 15, we could see a different type of game next year, a much better spectacle, and inevitably Dublin will be beaten sooner or later, though hopefully not next year.

ebbsy

I still think there needs to be 2 tiers, A and B. Promotion and relegation. Groups of 4. Do away with the provinces.

The league is a true reflection of where everyone is. Wicklow where I'm from are in Division 4 for a reason. Why did we play Dublin ? It shouldn't happen. Do we play Limerick in hurling? No we do not.

Lot of deluded counties out there.

dublin7d7

How about the scenario where 1 of the Leinster teams will eventually pull out of the championship , and that will bring the whole house of cards down?

The costs will no longer be sustainable, funding will eventually dry up for the money sink hole that is intercounty management.
They’s say fcuk this, appoint some well-meaning local lad for the county seniors

They’ll play in the League, have a god cut at it, and disband in May
This allows a clear summer run at club competitions, lads can come and go, and they save a truckload of money.

Once the first county goes (say Carlow), then Longford, Louth Wicklow, Laois, Offaly and so on, until you’re left with Dublin, Meath & Kildare

robbiezero

ebbsy wrote: »

I still think there needs to be 2 tiers, A and B. Promotion and relegation. Groups of 4. Do away with the provinces.

The league is a true reflection of where everyone is. Wicklow where I'm from are in Division 4 for a reason. Why did we play Dublin ? It shouldn't happen. Do we play Limerick in hurling? No we do not.

Lot of deluded counties out there.

The provincial championships are an absolute nonsense in this day and age.
Some of the problem with football is that you have a pain in your hole from crap one-sided matches in the championship, that there is not much patience left when the business end of the championship comes round. Then to revert to a league format after a lot of muck takes from it as well. The league format certainly has merit, but needs to be at start like hurling.

Hurling started with a bang and maintained it all through even though there was the odd dud game, it quickly faded from the memory - Provincials need to go in hurling also. Most unfair to have 5 top teams in Munster knocking ****e out of each other and basically 3 to qualify out of 4 in Leinster.

eagle eye

robbiezero wrote:

Some of the problem with football is that you have a pain in your hole from crap one-sided matches in the championship.

That'd be all Dublin matches then.