Has Gaelic Football lost it's appeal?

robbiezero

blanch152 wrote: »

When any team dominates a sport for a number of years, there is a loss of appeal. Whether it is Celtic in Scottish soccer or Kilkenny in hurling, we have seen this happen repeatedly.

It is easy therefore to blame Dublin for the loss of appeal. However, the problems of football are mostly linked to the effectiveness of defensive set-ups and counter-attacking.

It was interesting listening to the Sunday Game, and particularly to Lee Keegan and Michael Murphy who both seemed to agree that you wouldn't beat Dublin by playing a defensive-type game. If that is followed through, and we see a return to full forward pressing and 15 on 15, we could see a different type of game next year, a much better spectacle, and inevitably Dublin will be beaten sooner or later, though hopefully not next year.

Ya I think that could happen. Tyrone copped it this year, but are not at it long enough or dont have the players to implement it to the required level.
You need great pace in the team and you need to be very good in the one-on-one tackle, both of which Mayo had.
A striking element of last Sunday was how easily Tyrone were either burnt for pace in one on one situations by the likes of McCaffrey, Fenton etc or shrugged off in the tackle by O'Callaghan, MDMA etc. I guess they have been so long defending in big numbers, that their ability to tackle one on one is not what it should be.

blanch152

robbiezero wrote: »

Ya I think that could happen. Tyrone copped it this year, but are not at it long enough or dont have the players to implement it to the required level.
You need great pace in the team and you need to be very good in the one-on-one tackle, both of which Mayo had.
A striking element of last Sunday was how easily Tyrone were either burnt for pace in one on one situations by the likes of McCaffrey, Fenton etc or shrugged off in the tackle by O'Callaghan, MDMA etc. I guess they have been so long defending in big numbers, that their ability to tackle one on one is not what it should be.

I noticed that too. If both teams commit to attacking and traditional full-forwards come back into vogue, then space will open up as much harder to tackle one-on-one.

I think the problem may well be that in the early stages of the Championship in smaller county grounds, it will still be possible to win games with the defensive systems in place.

Sassygirl1999

DaltonHurler wrote: »

Well everyone,

just after the all Ireland Final I was wondering what do people think about football in this day and age. Like do people just get sick of Dublin winning it. Like we have to apprentice this 4-in-a-row team but for the neutral supporters what do they think?

While in hurling there have been five different winners in the last 6 years (Clare, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Galway and Limerick). Like I'm being honest I probably watched 40 mins of the final yesterday, so what do ye people think?

lost its appeal? It's a scam, the players are being taken for a ride

Sassygirl1999

DaltonHurler wrote: »

Well everyone,

just after the all Ireland Final I was wondering what do people think about football in this day and age. Like do people just get sick of Dublin winning it. Like we have to apprentice this 4-in-a-row team but for the neutral supporters what do they think?

While in hurling there have been five different winners in the last 6 years (Clare, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Galway and Limerick). Like I'm being honest I probably watched 40 mins of the final yesterday, so what do ye people think?

prior to that Kilkenny won almost ten in a row in the hurling

robbiezero

eagle eye wrote: »

That'd be all Dublin matches then.

Quite a few of them. Kerrys stroll through Munster was a farce also. Both Connacht semi-finals were hidings. Couple hidings in Ulster too, although it is far and away the most competitive.

shockframe

Too much handpassing, not enough kick passing, all fitness and no skill, no entertainment, people turning away in their droves, game is too slow nowadays, much better back in my day, something has to be done etc etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/gaa-ensures-we-don-t-enjoy-life-too-much-by-reminding-us-of-our-inadequacies-1.3618291

blanch152

shockframe wrote: »

Too much handpassing, not enough kick passing, all fitness and no skill, no entertainment, people turning away in their droves, game is too slow nowadays, much better back in my day, something has to be done etc etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/gaa-ensures-we-don-t-enjoy-life-too-much-by-reminding-us-of-our-inadequacies-1.3618291

Brilliant article.

tritium

BloodyBill wrote: »

I think Football is in trouble on a few fronts. The battle between it 'going more soccer or Rugby ' has been won by Soccer. I don't want to over simplify the issue but I observed the sight of Ciaran Kilkenny continuously going laterally across the field. In rugby he'd be annihilated. In Gaelic football he isn't touched. No shoulders anymore and the constant throws...the black card farce and the dominance of Dublin. It's not good.
Even Kerry doing so well at minor is a mirage. Dublin dont push players at the minor grade..They just keep training them up and then slip in the diamonds when they are ready without the pressure of being superstar underage players.

I love how there’s always posters with a reason not to worry about any imbalance when the most historically successful team are doing well at some level.

tritium

shockframe wrote: »

Too much handpassing, not enough kick passing, all fitness and no skill, no entertainment, people turning away in their droves, game is too slow nowadays, much better back in my day, something has to be done etc etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/gaa-ensures-we-don-t-enjoy-life-too-much-by-reminding-us-of-our-inadequacies-1.3618291

The way most big teams set up now it would make no difference what you do about the hand pass. Dublin at the end of the donegal game could have hand passed, kick passed or anything else they wanted. Donegal’s only interest was massing ranks in front of their goal. If you fix the blanket defence I reckon an awful lot of other things will sort themselves out

Niles Crane

shockframe wrote: »

Too much handpassing, not enough kick passing, all fitness and no skill, no entertainment, people turning away in their droves, game is too slow nowadays, much better back in my day, something has to be done etc etc.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/gaa-ensures-we-don-t-enjoy-life-too-much-by-reminding-us-of-our-inadequacies-1.3618291

He's 100% correct (however it still doesn't mean some changes shouldn't be made).

The same thing occurs with baseball in America where people have been coomplaining about it forever and yet it still manages to be popular, I suppose the more you care about something the more likely you are to complain about it.

blanch152

Niles Crane wrote: »

He's 100% correct (however it still doesn't mean some changes shouldn't be made).

The same thing occurs with baseball in America where people have been coomplaining about it forever and yet it still manages to be popular, I suppose the more you care about something the more likely you are to complain about it.

Hurling has turned into a moving version of the Poc Fada competition but I am not bothered enough to point out that while that makes for exciting contests, so does table tennis and lawn tennis. If you just enjoy back and forth and the ball going from one end of the pitch/court/table to the other, then enjoy it.

I don't find it anyway interesting and have never watched any of those three sports in detail.

Hurling was much more interesting when ground hurling featured. Nowadays, we have a scrum followed by a long puck followed by a scrum followed by a score from a puck. And back again down the field.

I can't be bothered complaining about it, because I can't be bothered by the game.

Niles Crane

blanch152 wrote: »

Hurling has turned into a moving version of the Poc Fada competition but I am not bothered enough to point out that while that makes for exciting contests, so does table tennis and lawn tennis. If you just enjoy back and forth and the ball going from one end of the pitch/court/table to the other, then enjoy it.

I don't find it anyway interesting and have never watched any of those three sports in detail.

Hurling was much more interesting when ground hurling featured. Nowadays, we have a scrum followed by a long puck followed by a scrum followed by a score from a puck. And back again down the field.

I can't be bothered complaining about it, because I can't be bothered by the game.

I posted something similar a few weeks ago and I agree, I used to love hurling in the 90's up to the late 00's but for for my taste it's now way too easy to score because of the distance the ball could be pucked these days as the equipment being used and players are much better.

There used to be a lot more actual hurling in the the game in the 90's and you had lots of ground hurling which I always enjoyed, sadly ground hurling has all but disappeared from the game in open play.

Pixel Eater

Niles Crane wrote: »

I posted something similar a few weeks ago and I agree, I used to love hurling in the 90's up to the late 00's but for for my taste it's now way too easy to score because of the distance the ball could be pucked these days as the equipment being used and players are much better.

There used to be a lot more actual hurling in the the game in the 90's and you had lots of ground hurling which I always enjoyed, sadly ground hurling has all but disappeared from the game in open play.

Totally agree, players scoring from their won half is commonplace these days and the sheer glut of wides is annoying. 90s hurling had a great mix of ground hurling, in the air and still plenty of scores - just not the massive totals racked up these days. And it was even more competitive with the likes of Offaly, Westmeath and Antrim having fairly decent teams.

legendary.xix

The county championships are going to be in full swing. Enjoy these championships.

Powerhouse

Deleted User wrote: »

I dont wholly buy into the financial/population argument. Yes it is a plus for Dublin to have a big pick and great sponsorship etc, but surely during the noughties when Dublin failed to win a single All Ireland during that whole decade (and only won one during the 90s too) that this financial and population advantage could easily apply to those teams?

We are possibly being a little ungracious on Jim Gavin who has to motivate and prepare the team before they go out on the field at the end of the day and also Pat Gilroy before him. And we are also forgetting that Dublin haven't exactly cleaned up at underage (they've had some success but haven't swept the board by any means).

What is to stop other top footballing counties from at least matching them in all honesty? Kerry have lost their way the last few years and maybe didnt blood enough youngsters and the same with Mayo. Cork have completely fallen off a cliff, Tyrone while competitive have been overly cagey against Dublin aside from last Sunday and Donegal have found life after Jim McGuinness very difficult.

Do Kildare or Meath have an excuse really? Or Galway?
I mean by the logic of sponsorship and population shortage Monaghan would have a good excuse to just down tools or accept their fate? Or perhaps little Carlow as they took to the field against their neighbours Kildare this summer?

Im not denying that Dublin have their advantages but they have always had these same advantages and i think some other counties should be far better than they are.

To emphasise a point which emerges from some of the points made here and it is this: isn't it amazing that in an era when there is more money and science available than ever that so many teams are so bad so often. For example, how the hell are Cork, Meath and Kildare so bad for so long with such resources? There is no reason why Monaghan or Roscommon should be doing better than these counties. I'm sure it costs a fortune to train these teams and money is thrown around like confetti but to what end? Their recent records are shambolic.

At least Dublin appear to be putting their resources to decent use. And some people think they are the problem! :eek:

blanch152

Powerhouse wrote: »

To emphasise a point which emerges from some of the points made here and it is this: isn't it amazing that in an era when there is more money and science available than ever that so many teams are so bad so often. For example, how the hell are Cork, Meath and Kildare so bad for so long with such resources? There is no reason why Monaghan or Roscommon should be doing better than these counties. I'm sure it costs a fortune to train these teams and money is thrown around like confetti but to what end? Their recent records are shambolic.

At least Dublin appear to be putting their resources to decent use. And some people think they are the problem! :eek:

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/alan-brogan-dublin-worked-slavishly-hard-for-their-allireland-successes-and-its-an-insult-to-attribute-it-to-money-37290634.html


Alan brogan explains it better than any of us could.

Corcaigh84

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Totally agree, players scoring from their won half is commonplace these days and the sheer glut of wides is annoying. 90s hurling had a great mix of ground hurling, in the air and still plenty of scores - just not the massive totals racked up these days. And it was even more competitive with the likes of Offaly, Westmeath and Antrim having fairly decent teams.

I think I counted two instances in the AIF where a Limerick man whipped on the ball to get it out of danger. Those instances jumped out at me since they're so rare these days. As a sore Corkman I was still delighted to see a Munster team pulling on it

Simple solution lads - the ball must be made heavier. Will the GAA bother to do anything about it is another matter.

robbiezero

thefloss wrote: »

I think I counted two instances in the AIF where a Limerick man whipped on the ball to get it out of danger. Those instances jumped out at me since they're so rare these days. As a sore Corkman I was still delighted to see a Munster team pulling on it

Simple solution lads - the ball must be made heavier. Will the GAA bother to do anything about it is another matter.

Its not that simple.
The scoring zone now is usually around 80 metres. If the ball is made heavier and lets say the scoring zone becomes 60 metres. That is 20 metres less on the pitch that you have to defend ergo teams can drop back in numbers and crowd their defence more. The Derek McGrath system would become quite workable in that scenario.

Corcaigh84

robbiezero wrote: »

Its not that simple.
The scoring zone now is usually around 80 metres. If the ball is made heavier and lets say the scoring zone becomes 60 metres. That is 20 metres less on the pitch that you have to defend ergo teams can drop back in numbers and crowd their defence more. The Derek McGrath system would become quite workable in that scenario.

You could argue that this approach would increase the value of goals relatively if less points are being scored. It could also increase goalmouth action, which adds to the excitement and drama. I just don't think 100 meter scoring adds much to the game.

Sonny678

For me many people dont understand how sucess is gained in gaa or sucess in GAA overall. I think the reason for this is 90s and early 00s. This was extraordinary competitive time gaa in hurling and football. You had 8 different counties win senior All Ireland in 1990s compared to 3 now eg in 90s Cork Meath Down Derry Donegal Kerry Dublin and Galway won Sam in 90s only Dublin Donegal and kerry have in this decade. And in leinster between 95 and 04 you had 5 different leinster winners to 1 winner in last 8 years eg Dublin won leinster in 95, Meath in 96, Offaly in 97 , kildare in 98, Meath in 99, kildare in 00, Meath in 01, Dublin in 02, Laois in 03 and Westmeath in 04. Compare that run to the last 8 years in leinster.

This was unprecedented. The only other time you had so many different winners in leinster or football in general was 1940s and 1950s. In leinster in 40s and 50s , Meath Dublin kildare Wexford Carlow Laois louth all won leinster. In football Roscommon Mayo kerry Dublin Meath Galway Cork Cavan Louth all won senior All-Irelands. The 90s early 00s and 40s and 50s were the most competitive periods in football. Outside that you had less competitive eras. The 90s has left this idea that many counties are sucessful when the fact is many many great football counties are starved of even provicial sucess and only handful of counties have had consistent sucess
.

For since Independence the most sucessful counties consistently with strong teams in each decade 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s 00 were kerry Dublin Cork Galway Meath. In last 30 years Mayo have replaced Galway ( with more consistent sucess eg 9 All Ireland senior finals to Galways 3. Of course Galway have two wins, but Mayo have been more consistent). While in last 20 years Tyrone have replaced Meath ( with 4 All Ireland final appearances to Meaths 1 since 2000). Donegal have also became a very recent football superpower in last 25 years . Beginning in 1992 the year they had their first ever championship win in Croker. In the early days Cavan had huge sucess up to 50s while Down had sporadic sucess eg 60s and 90s. And other counties had one off All Ireland sucess eg Wexford 14 to 18, kildare 20s, Roscommon 40s, Louth 50s, Offaly 71 to 82, Derry 90s.

So you have counties that have had huge sucess then declined eg Cavan 1900 to 1950 Meath 1930 to 2010 Galway 1900 to 2001.
Counties that had one off sucess eg Wexford, Kildare 20s, Roscommon 40s, louth 50s Offaly 70s And never won an All Ireland since.

The beloe stats will tell a better picture

Limerick have not won a Munster title or an All Ireland football title in 120 years
Waterford have not won Munster title or an All Ireland football title in 120 years
Tippearey havent won Munster title in 80 years
Clare have 1 senior Munster football title in 90 years
Roscommon havent won an All Ireland in 70 years and played in 1 All-Ireland senior final in 50 years
Mayo have not won an All Ireland in 70 years
Galway have won 2 All Irelands in 50 years ( Kerry Dublin Cork Meath Down Tyrone and Offaly have won more in same period)
Sligo have won 2 Connacht titles in 120 years
leitrim have won 1 Connacht title in 90 years
Antrim havent won an Ulster title in 70 years
Cavan have not won All Ireland in 70 years and have 1 Ulster title in 50 years
Fermanagh have never won an Ulster title
Monaghan have never won an All Ireland title
Down have not won an Ulster title in 25 years
Wexford have not won a leinster title in 70 years and an All Ireland in 100 years
Carlow have not won an leinster title in 70 years
Laois have won 1 leinater title in 60 years
Longford havent won leinster title in 50 years
Westmeath have won 1 leinster title in 120 years
Offaly have 1 leinster title in 35 years and havent won an All Ireland in 35 years
Wicklow have never won leinster title
Kildare have won 2 leinster titles in 60 years and havent won an All Ireland in 90 years
Louth havent won a leinster or an All Ireland title in 60 years.

So basically the vast majority of counties have had little or no sucess for generations eg 60 or 70 years. Others have had All Ireland sucess when Ireland had just become independent country after civil war, while others had sucess only 30 or 40 years after the famine.

This idea of a competitive championship is a myth. This idea that counties should be doing better is bogus. Because the vast majority of counties have never had real sucess, been starved of sucess for decades. When people say counties should be doing better. Do they not realise that football you cannot buy players. You have to wait for a golden generation and great manager to appear on the scene. That might happen every 30 or 40 years or every 60 or 70 years. Of course kerry and Dublin always had strong teams for different reasons. So did Cork and Galway. The reasons why counties are sucessful are easy to explain eg great players great manager underage sucess. The reasons why a county is unsuccessful is multi layered and very complicated. The reasons why a county declines is multi layered and very complicated.

aroundthehouse

I cant bare watching football at this stage, I loved the game but its absolutely gone to sh1te, its as bad as watching Ireland playing soccer.

Not taking anything away from Dublin, in fact themselves and Mayo are the only teams to throw up a decent final since 2012, kerry are brutal at the back but apart from that football in nearly every other county apart from maybe Monaghan is dire. It all comes down to how teams are now trained, all the emphasis on stats and smoothies and sh1te and not on kicking the effin ball over the bar, something has to be done because game attendance is down, viewership is down and hurling is on the up

blanch152

aroundthehouse wrote: »

I cant bare watching football at this stage, I loved the game but its absolutely gone to sh1te, its as bad as watching Ireland playing soccer.

Not taking anything away from Dublin, in fact themselves and Mayo are the only teams to throw up a decent final since 2012, kerry are brutal at the back but apart from that football in nearly every other county apart from maybe Monaghan is dire. It all comes down to how teams are now trained, all the emphasis on stats and smoothies and sh1te and not on kicking the effin ball over the bar, something has to be done because game attendance is down, viewership is down and hurling is on the up

Much preferred last Sunday's All-Ireland to the muck served up in 1980 for example.

legendary.xix

I'm listening to people at work speak about their county championships. GAA followers will attend these games.

Dannyriver

thefloss wrote: »

You could argue that this approach would increase the value of goals relatively if less points are being scored. It could also increase goalmouth action, which adds to the excitement and drama. I just don't think 100 meter scoring adds much to the game.

Hurling has never been better as far as I'm concerned, the way they have borrowed from Soccer/football by passing out from the back is a joy to behold. The speed of the ball the accuracy the way it's delivered and received. Brilliant.

ThunbergsAreGo

blanch152 wrote: »

Much preferred last Sunday's All-Ireland to the muck served up in 1980 for example.

Yeah for all the defensive football , there were some big scores this year

People seem to equate "good" with close. The quality of the hurling final was dire for the most part yet it was close and therefore exciting for 2 minutes and therefore good

Fann Linn

Dannyriver wrote: »

Hurling has never been better as far as I'm concerned, the way they have borrowed from Soccer/football by passing out from the back is a joy to behold. The speed of the ball the accuracy the way it's delivered and received. Brilliant.

And all those wides.

Dannyriver

Fann Linn wrote: »

And all those wides.

That s about poor options which has nothing to do with the actual state of the game. All sport is about options when to shoot when to not, when to stay back when to break. if players are going to go for hail Marys then your gonna have more wides.

robbiezero

naughtb4 wrote: »

Yeah for all the defensive football , there were some big scores this year

People seem to equate "good" with close. The quality of the hurling final was dire for the most part yet it was close and therefore exciting for 2 minutes and therefore good

I didn't think there was that much talk about it being a good match. It had a good finish and a winner for the first time in 45 years, but from what I saw was widely acknowledged to have been a poor game.

robbiezero

thefloss wrote: »

You could argue that this approach would increase the value of goals relatively if less points are being scored. It could also increase goalmouth action, which adds to the excitement and drama. I just don't think 100 meter scoring adds much to the game.

Watch the camogie All-Ireland on Sunday to get an idea of what might happen to hurling if the scoring area was lessened.

thesultan

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Niles Crane wrote: »

The problem is that those games are few and far between.

Last years all ireland final was one of the greatest games of all time but there were not too many other quality games in the whole championship season.

The average game has declined in entertainment value the great games (which have always been rare in any sport) are great but the average game has declined massively in entertainment value, I stopped going to watch Offaly a few years ago as I honestly couldn't take anymore of the crap football being played and I suspect I'm not the only one in the country who became fed up with the type of football on show.

The rules of the sport badly need to be changed as this negative era has been allowed to go on for far too long and something needs to be done to stop it.When you here so many former and current players and so many fasn constantly complaining about the sport it's a sign that there is something seriously wrong which needs to be fixed.

We must have watched different championships. Last year Mayo went to extra time against two different teams and went to a replay of the semi final against Kerry before meeting Dublin. I thought it was a fantastic spectacle. This year watching Fermanagh & Kildare was entertaining as there were two underdog teams trying to go the distance. I’m undecided about the Super 8’s, not sure they really worked, although I did enjoy seeing Kerry go crashing out.

Fermanagh monaghan was fairly torturous.