Armstrong Cup 2018-19

Past_Pawn_99

sodacat11 wrote: »

I will supply the pigeons.

I've got the stamps

Danville

Dublin 0-Kilkenny 3, 5 Games yet to be played.

Joedryan

Danville wrote: »

Dublin 0-Kilkenny 3, 5 Games yet to be played.

How come 5 games have not been played?

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

How come 5 games have not been played?

Dublin only have three chess sets.

mikhail

Joedryan wrote: »

How come 5 games have not been played?

Dublin had a team at the European Chess Team Cup.

sodacat11

Where exactly do Trinity play their home games and is there any free parking in the area on a Saturday afternoon?

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Round 1: Gonzaga B 2.5-5.5 Gonzaga A

Tim Harding

Trinity home venue is room 1.18b in the Biosciences building (only about 2 years old) on 152-160 Pearse Street. This is a better room than last season.
I believe there is free parking on Saturdays in the area; another regular poster may clarify. Looking at an old message in our Whatsapp group, somebody said it's behind Goldsmith Hall; take turn by the Ginger Man pub. But don't take my word for it as I go by bus.

Tim Harding

mikhail wrote: »

Dublin had a team at the European Chess Team Cup.

But only half their Armstrong regulars played the ECC. I prefer Sodacat's explanation.

Tim Harding

In my opinion far too many postponements are being permitted by the League and games played in advance are not ideal either as it's a much better experience playing the whole match on the same (scheduled) day.

In any other league I ever played in, clubs just fielded whoever they could on the day and if somebody was away, too bad. In the Armstrong in the 1980s, postponements were allowed for people representing Ireland in olympiads and that was it. I am not sure when or why the present lax system developed.

The rule says:

7.7 Subject to agreement between the respective team captains, games may be played in advance of the scheduled date. If a team wishes to postpone games in a match, the approval of the divisional controller must be obtained in advance, which approval shall be given only in extenuating circumstances.

For the second year in a row, we are in danger of the ICU being unable to submit the Armstrong round 1 and 2 results to FIDE in time for inclusion in the November list. This affects anyone from Ireland who plays in the league and will be playing a rated game abroad in November.
All outstanding games would need to be played this Saturday, at latest,and the results promptly confirmed by both captains to the division controller, so that he can pass on the results to the ICU rating officer not later than Tuesday 30 October.

Let's take a look at the games still not reported on the LCU site.

Round 1 (supposed to be played on 29 Sept.), one missing result from the Kilkenny-Bray match: Quinn v De Verdier. Neither of them were at either the olympiad or the ECC.
So has this game been played or not? What were the "extenuating circumstances" that meant the division controller agreed for it to be postponed?

Gonzaga A v B was affected by the Millfield junior event and two players being away for the Olympiad, but the match has been completed now and the result is on the LCU site.

Round 2. St Benildus v Balbriggan. John Healy v Sean Nolan. Healy was at the ECC so fair enough - but if not played yet, it should be played at latest this Saturday. (Balbriggan matches are always on Saturday.) Benildus were at the ECC but still managed to play seven of the games as scheduled.

Round 2. Gonzaga A v Trinity. This match has finished 4-4 after the board 2 game was played last Saturday. That was delayed because Ioana Miller was at the Olympiad as women's captain, fair enough.

Round 2. Kilkenny v Dublin. Scheduled for 13 October but five of Dublin's ten declared players were at the ECC; so postponement is reasonable - but to what date? We are told unofficially that three games have been played. So teams must have been declared before that could happen. There is no information online so we don't know which games were played or which ones are outstanding. Will they play on Saturday?

In all, Kilkenny have 9 results holding up the rating. Does anybody from that club read this board and can help out here? Or one of the Dublin players?

sodacat11

Tim Harding wrote: »

In my opinion far too many postponements are being permitted by the League and games played in advance are not ideal either as it's a much better experience playing the whole match on the same (scheduled) day.

In any other league I ever played in, clubs just fielded whoever they could on the day and if somebody was away, too bad. In the Armstrong in the 1980s, postponements were allowed for people representing Ireland in olympiads and that was it. I am not sure when or why the present lax system developed.

Another annoying trend is this dubious practice of players agreeing draws in the Armstrong without playing a game at all. One Kilkenny player used to draw an amazing amount of games every season and I'm not even sure if he was even in the country for half of them. Another I.M , who shall remain nameless, is also guilty of this carry on which not only distorts the league table but also gives completely unmerited rating points to lower rated players. One player I heard about has gained at least 20 rating points in the past twelve months through these "non games".

Tim Harding

sodacat11 wrote: »

Another annoying trend is this dubious practice of players agreeing draws in the Armstrong without playing a game at all. One Kilkenny player used to draw an amazing amount of games every season and I'm not even sure if he was even in the country for half of them. Another I.M , who shall remain nameless, is also guilty of this carry on which not only distorts the league table but also gives completely unmerited rating points to lower rated players. One player I heard about has gained at least 20 rating points in the past twelve months through these "non games".

That of course is another abuse arising from allowing advance or postponed games. I regret I have allowed my name to be used in this way a couple of times to save my club from fielding a weakened team against Gonzaga (not this year) - but the second time I only regained a few rating points I had conceded the first time.

Joedryan

I never liked the games being postponed or played in advance in the Armstrong, it kind of messes up the whole feeling of the team and the match.
Interestingly in the Catalan leagues points are awarded for the team winning the match. e.g. 5.5-4.5 win would be just as good as a 9-1 thrashing and all games are played on the day.
This leads to some interesting scenarios with players running around frantically looking at the other boards to see if they should agree a draw or push for the win.

cdeb

Could never understand the logic of that tbh. A 9-1 win is clearly better than 5.5-4.5, and game points makes the 9-1 interesting until the end too.

10 boards is a lot though. Nigs on being captain for that

Joedryan

cdeb wrote: »

Could never understand the logic of that tbh. A 9-1 win is clearly better than 5.5-4.5, and game points makes the 9-1 interesting until the end too.

10 boards is a lot though. Nigs on being captain for that

I used to think the same, but it does introduce the element of team strategy to matches, instead of every man/woman for themselves.

cdeb

I think you can be strategic with game points as well though. I've put out plenty of unusual line-ups in my time based on trying to maximise points.

I think also if the last two games don't count for anything because the score is already, say, 4½-1½, then that does become the case of every man/woman to himself that you're trying to avoid. But with game points, those last two games are still of equal importance to the team.

I can kind of understand match points in Swiss tournaments like the Olympiad/European Club Cup, but in an all-play-all league, game points make far more sense.

In my opinion, of course.

Joedryan

Strategic with line ups is one thing, but with match points the "strategy" can literally change every 10 mins depending on the ongoing games.
Players are allowed to consult team captains on draw offers which means the team captain really needs to be a strong player with a good idea of what is going on in every board.
Better if the players can keep an eye themselves.
Its just different, I dont think either system is better or worse than the other.

cdeb

Joedryan wrote: »

Players are allowed to consult team captains on draw offers which means the team captain really needs to be a strong player with a good idea of what is going on in every board.

This happens in the Leinster leagues too though? Granted, more on the last day of the leagues than every week. But when it happens, it's with far more detail, because it's one thing judging a match result, but it's another to judge a series of game results.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Tim Harding wrote: »

Let's take a look at the games still not reported on the LCU site.

Round 1 (supposed to be played on 29 Sept.), one missing result from the Kilkenny-Bray
Gonzaga A v B was affected by the Millfield junior event and two players being away for the Olympiad, but the match has been completed now and the result is on the LCU site.

Round 2. St Benildus v Balbriggan. John Healy v Sean Nolan. Healy was at the ECC so fair enough - but if not played yet, it should be played at latest this Saturday. (Balbriggan matches are always on Saturday.) Benildus were at the ECC but still managed to play seven of the games as scheduled.

Round 2. Gonzaga A v Trinity. This match has finished 4-4 after the board 2 game was played last Saturday. That was delayed because Ioana Miller was at the Olympiad as women's captain, fair enough.

Round 2. Kilkenny v Dublin. Scheduled for 13 October but five of Dublin's ten declared players were at the ECC; so postponement is reasonable - but to what date? We are told unofficially that three games have been played. So teams must have been declared before that could happen. There is no information online so we don't know which games were played or which ones are outstanding. Will they play on Saturday?

In all, Kilkenny have 9 results holding up the rating. Does anybody from that club read this board and can help out here? Or one of the Dublin players?

Round 1 games are now complete. Draw in the Quinn vs MDV game. League table updated.

Just awaiting the Healy-Nolan and KK-Dub games for round 2.

Having updated some results - I can confirm what Cdeb said previously: that the results update automatically and instantly once both captains submit matching team sheets. If they don’t match, the league controller emails the captains to confirm.

The delays are likely due to captains not having time to submit their scoresheets or mismatching scoresheets. (The system to update results, having never done it before this season, is very easy to use and takes 2 minutes).

cdeb

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Having updated some results - I can confirm what Cdeb said previously: that the results update automatically and instantly once both captains submit matching team sheets. If they don’t match, the league controller emails the captains to confirm.

I'll correct that - you can update once one captain submits the result. There is a check then once the second half of the scoresheet comes in, but if it's the same, then the system just confirms that fact and updates nothing.

mikhail

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Just awaiting the Healy-Nolan and KK-Dub games for round 2.

The former will be played tomorrow.

(The system to update results, having never done it before this season, is very easy to use and takes 2 minutes).

Cdeb showed me the current iteration of the system the other day. It's a good deal handier than it was when I last used it.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Benildus 4-4 Balbriggan.

League table remains fascinating at both ends (compared to previous years at least). Slow start from Benildus unexpectedly, fast start from Trinity. Dun Laoghaire have a mountain to climb.

Lots of interesting fixtures in round 3 but pick of them must be:
Elm Mount vs Gonzaga A

Tim Harding

Round 3 starts on Saturday.

Any update on Dublin v Kilkenny from round 2?

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Hasn't been completed yet.

We've submitted Heidenfeld and Ennis for November rating. Armstrong will be rated in December now unfortunately. Hopefully 3-4 will also be submitted then.

Rathminor

Trinity 3.5 Rathmines 1.5
Board 2 still in play.
Boards 1 and 4 playing Monday night.

sodacat11

Rathminor wrote: »

Trinity 3.5 Rathmines 1.5
Board 2 still in play.
Boards 1 and 4 playing Monday night.

I feared as much when I left but with our new board one strengthening the team greatly I don't think that relegation will be an issue

Rathminor

Gonzaga B 8 Balbriggan 0
Big result for both ends of the league table this round.

sodacat11

Rathminor wrote: »

Gonzaga B 8 Balbriggan 0
Big result for both ends of the league table this round.

What price Gonzaga "A" & "B" finishing first and second in the Armstrong within the next five years?
Balbriggan can start putting the Heidenfeld venues into their Google Maps for next season.

cdeb

Bray 3-2 St Benildus, with the remaining games on Wednesday

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Kilkenny 5-2 Dun Laoghaire
Trinity 4.5-1.5 Rathmines

Gonzaga B 16.5/24
Trinity 15.5/22
Bray 12.5/21
Kilkenny 11/18
Elm Mount 9.5/16
Gonzaga A 9.5/16
Benildus 9/21
Blanch 8.5/16
Rathmines 8/22
Balbriggan 6.5/24
Dun Laoghaire 5.5/23
Dublin 4/11

prey

gb tr br kk ga em bn bl rm bb dl db #
gonzaga b - 2.5 6 8 16.5
trinity - 4 4.5 7 15.5 2
bray - 5 3 4.5 12.5 3
kilkenny 3 - 5 3 11 6
gonzaga a 5.5 4 - * 9.5
elm mount * - 5.5 4 9.5
benildus 2 - 3 4 9 3
blanchardstown 3.5 5 - * 8.5
rathmines 2 1.5 - 4.5 8 2
balbriggan 0 4 3.5 - 7.5
dun laoire 1 2 2.5 - 5.5 1
dublin 0 4 * - 4 5

Tim Harding

Trinity 6 Rathmines 2

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Elm Mount 1-7 Gonzaga A

Past_Pawn_99

Blanchardstown 4 - 4 Dublin

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Our reign didn’t last long.. gaps starting to appear at the top and bottom. Up to KK and Bray to join the leading pack.
Trinity 17/24
Gonzaga B 16.5/24
Gonzaga A 16.5/24
Bray 12.5/21
Blanch 12.5/24
Kilkenny 11/18
Elm Mount 10.5/24
Benildus 9/21
Rathmines 8.5/24
Dublin 8/19
Balbriggan 6.5/24
Dun Laoghaire 5.5/23

prey

tr ga gb br bl kk em bn rm db bb dl #
trinity - 4 6 7 17
gonzaga a 4 - 5.5 7 16.5
gonzaga b 2.5 - 6 8 16.5
bray - 4.5 5 3 12.5 3
blanchardstown 3.5 - 5 4 12.5
kilkenny 3 - 3 5 11 6
elm mount 1 - 4 5.5 10.5
benildus 2 3 - 4 9 3
rathmines 2 2 - 4.5 8.5
dublin 4 0 4 - 8 5
balbriggan 0 4 3.5 - 7.5
dun laoire 1 2 2.5 - 5.5 1

Joedryan

Uff - Dun Laoire, I can fly in for a few games.

Edit - early days mind.

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

Uff - Dun Laoire, I can fly in for a few games.

Edit - early days mind.

Even with your valuable assistance Dun Laoire have about as much chance of avoiding relegation as your beloved Man U have of winning the Premiership :pac:

Joedryan

sodacat11 wrote: »

Even with your valuable assistance Dun Laoire have about as much chance of avoiding relegation as your beloved Man U have of winning the Premiership :pac:

Great result against Juventus though

sodacat11

Joedryan wrote: »

Great result against Juventus though

Daylight robbery after being completely outplayed for 85 minutes. It was reminiscent of their flukey champion league finals V Bayern and Chelsea.
Mourinho really is an arse these days.

macelligott

It may surprise Sodacat11, but some of us have absolutely no interest in club soccer

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

It may surprise Sodacat11, but some of us have absolutely no interest in club soccer

Nothing about the members of the chess community surprises me.:D

sodacat11

Anyone know the results of the postponed Armstrong games that were supposed to have been played on Wednesday?

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Bray 4.5-3.5 Benildus according to the Benildus website. Cdeb can probably confirm.

cdeb

Yep; 3½-4½

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Round 3 is now complete with a few team submissions to be completed/corrected (all scores now showing though).

A lot of very closely matched fixtures in round 4. First up is Benildus vs Gonzaga B where Benildus will have to shake off an uncharacteristically slow start while the Gonzaga Bs will have to prove they are "for real" if they want to keep pace with TCD and Gonzaga A (and KK if they can finish well against Dublin).

Dun Laoghaire will have their first bite at a (on paper) bottom 6 team in Blanchardstown. But Blanch have shown teeth thus far and would hope to get their second match win.

The next 2 matches; Rathmines vs Elm Mount, Dublin vs Bray, are close on paper with Rathmines now strengthed by adding Mel (and Darren) for this season.

Lastly, the league leaders, TCD, take on Balbriggan while Gonzaga A face their fourth top 6 team in 4 matches, Kilkenny. The latter match probably being the pick of the bunch if Kilkenny can call on Baburin, Quinn, McPhillips and Wallace.

Tim Harding

Balbriggan asked for two advance games v Trinity and scored 1.5 pts today to bounce back from their Gonzaga B disaster.
Former Polish junior international Antonina Gora played her first game for them in two years and drew with me.
Alex Pachalov beat Gavin Melaugh.
I think the rest of the match will be played on the scheduled date.

macelligott

Does anyone know when the postponed R2 match: Dublin v Kilkenny will be played ?

Tim Harding

macelligott wrote: »

Does anyone know when the postponed R2 match: Dublin v Kilkenny will be played ?

I don't know the circumstances apart from some Dublin players going to the European Club Cup - but that was ages ago now.

Also most clubs going to the Euros don't send their full Armstrong squad so they should just play their Armstrong matches anyway without those players.
Or play their games in the match before they leave.
The Olympiad should be the only exception allowed.

It's a disgrace this match is still outstanding, and if some boards have been played the results should be on the LCU website.

The rules need to be tightened in future to prevent this kind of thing. I would suggest a maximum two weeks after the scheduled date to complete a match, with any unplayed boards after that scored 0-0. Or if the players were already nominated but then one player couldn't make it on the agreed date then they lose.

macelligott

Tim,
"Off with their heads" is what I say :-)