EIRE signs from WW2

Creative83

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Our neutrality wasn't shameful. It was... something most minor nations did, unless they were forced into the war by a dow/invasion. The idea that most countries jumped into the war to fight voluntarily is pure propaganda drivel. They didn't. Most of them entered the war because Hitler/Japan didn't give them any choice.

And Irish neutrality leaned very sideways towards the Allies.

Out of curiosity, at what stage/year should have Ireland joined the war, and what realistic contributions could the Irish back then have made?

Noveight

Creative83 wrote: »

To me and to a lot of other people our neutrality during WW2 was shameful.

Really? Would you say the majority share that view? I wasn't aware that that opinion would be a common one. A poll would be interesting.

I think the EIRE signs are somewhat fascinating.

Gimme A Pound

Very easy to throw out an emotive word like "shameful" when you don't have to serve in the armed forces.

Creative83

Creative83 wrote: »

The Irish government could have put it's full backing into the defence of Western Europe as it should of done!

Full backing? Do you have any idea of the state of Ireland back then? I'm getting the impression that you don't know much of the period and are just slinging mud.

How many other nations sacrificed their own while we sit on the sidelines. Disgraceful behavior from our government at the time

Well, lets see. The US. Russia. Spain. Turkey. Oh. You mean countries that did join in voluntarily... ?

You do realise that Germany declared war on the US, and without that, they wouldn't have joined the European theatre until much later, if at all?

Anything to say about the men and women from Ireland who did contribute to the war effort from Britain?

Sure. They have my admiration. I suspect they'd prefer that to your rather shallow outrage.

Creative83

Creative83 wrote: »

The EIRE signs are a sign of weakness and cowardice... I wonder which fool in the government at the time would actually think the Luftwaffe would turn away

Unlike you, they probably realised that Bombing at that time was extremely hard to do, and finding the right target was incredibly difficult. I suspect they believed a German pilot might be lost and want to know they're going in the wrong direction. :rolleyes:

GarIT

WW2 would have been tough to get involved in. The guys who are in the wrong vs the guys who ****ed you over at every opportunity is difficult to decide between.

fergus1001

Creative83 wrote:

The EIRE signs are a sign of weakness and cowardice... I wonder which fool in the government at the time would actually think the Luftwaffe would turn away

what are you smoking mate

we were a country for about a decade before Hitler started his war drums and we had little to no industrial capacity, no air force, no tanks

The war would have bankrupted the country in a mater of weeks

even today we have enough ammunition in our depots for about 2 hours of sustained full scale fighting

Fann Linn

As a 'neutral' country we probably did as much as we could for the Allies considering the circumstances at the time, Ie, 'the Donegal Corridor', repatriating Allied sailors and airmen to Belfast, passing on essential Met Eireann info for the DDay landings, sending emergency services and other supplies to the North when that came under attack.

Manic Moran

Whether they are a dark part of Irish history or not, they are a part of the nation’s history in a period of time of global consequence. Where is the problem in restoring it?

Fann Linn

Creative83 wrote: »

Nationwide humiliation... but it seems that on Boards nobody has proper pride in their country

Or maybe just a better grasp of history.

Creative83

Creative83 wrote: »

You totally missed the point! Dublin & Belfast were bombed... did the EIRE signs make a bit of difference?

"In 1938 four Gloster Gladiator biplane fighters were delivered – a further eight were ordered but were embargoed by the outbreak of the Second World War. Other aircraft purchased from the United Kingdom before the outbreak of war included 16 Avro Anson Mark I maritime patrol bombers, 3 Supermarine Walrus amphibians, 6 Westland Lysander Mark II army co-operation aircraft and a number of trainers.[11]"

The Irish Airforce was tiny and used, for the most part, outdated planes. Novice pilots. No radar coverage. No established anti-aircraft placements. A minuscule navy. And you expected Ireland to do what? Fight against vetern Luftwaffe pilots experienced in shooting down planes across half of Europe? Our little navy to go up against essentially an imperial navy?

"In June 1940, an Irish Marine and Coastwatching Service Motor Torpedo Boat (MTB) made two separate trips to rescue allied soldiers during the Dunkirk evacuation.[5][not in citation given] The government subsequently ordered an additional 4 MTBs. By the end of 1940 the Irish Marine and Coastwatching Service consisted of 2 MTBs and 4 other assorted craft"

The Irish airforce, and the Irish navy consisted of equipment sold off by the British and of far lesser use than modern equipment. And... The Irish were to face up against the Alliance that had defeated France? I think you're playing around too much with hindsight.

And... let's consider your outrage.. Why should Ireland have become involved in the war? The Holocaust wasn't discovered and made known until late into the war. In the eyes of Irish people, this was simply an European war. It's not as if there hadn't been a previous World War where an estimated 35k-40k Irish men died in the trenches, and millions of others died. Why would Ireland commit themselves to such a war, when their population was tiny, with any loss in men being a massive drain... and when their armed forces were essentially equipped badly for a WW1 situation nevermind about a WW2 situation.

Your outrage is naive, and ignorant. Frankly, you don't have a clue what you're complaining about. Do some bloody research. Shameful? Your attitude is shameful.

endacl

Deleted User wrote: »

and what realistic contributions could the Irish back then have made?

Cookie_Monster

Fann Linn wrote: »

As a 'neutral' country we probably did as much as we could for the Allies considering the circumstances at the time, Ie, 'the Donegal Corridor', repatriating Allied sailors and airmen to Belfast, passing on essential Met Eireann info for the DDay landings, sending emergency services and other supplies to the North when that came under attack.

Indeed. We were more a Allied non combatant than a truly neutral country.

Creative83

Creative83 wrote: »

The Irish government could have put it's full backing into the defence of Western Europe as it should of done!

This is hilarious. Because Britain on 1 September 1939 decided to declare war on Nazi Germany, any other country who didn't follow them then are cowards? How very convenient that the 6 years of British collaboration with Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1939 are wilfully overlooked by all the Irish hating British jingoists. All those years of British cowardice, of selling out the French, the Italians, the Czechs, the Austrians and, yes, the Jews are ignored because the British have decided that cowardice started with everybody else sometime after 1 September 1939.

Creative83 wrote: »

How many other nations sacrificed their own while we sit on the sidelines. Disgraceful behavior from our government at the time

Stunning ignorance once more. Your beloved Britain and the US weren't exactly keen on getting rid of Mr Hitler for a long, long time as they viewed him as a bulwark against their far greater evil, communism. Britain refused the USSR request for an alliance against Hitler and indeed Britain refused to invite the Russians or the Czechs, whom they were selling out, to the Munich Conference in September 1938.

The supposedly heroic Americans even recognised Vichy France as the legitimate government of France and viewed the Maquis/French Resistance as "terrorists". This US position continued until as late as December 1941, when Nazi Germany declared war on the US. Furthermore, both countries refused to take any Jewish refugees at the Evian Conference in July 1938. So much for your juxtaposition of the heroic anti-Nazi, pro-Jewish Brits and Yanks versus the cowardly Irish.

Finally, Éamon de Valera "disgraceful"? Seriously, on what planet of abject ignorance do you reside? By keeping us out of WW2 Dev was a far, far greater Irishman and defender of Irish interests than that sycophant of British imperialism John Redmond who very passionately encouraged Irishmen to die for the interests of the British Empire in WW1, and who shamelessly eulogised their deaths in that fanatical imperialist cause after Gallipoli. The Irish Quisling. And that's before we even mention your heroes of the supposedly benign British Empire who were financing and internationally defending the sectarian herrenvolk British settler-colonial statelet in the Six Counties which discriminated comprehensively against the native Irish there in the same years of WW2.

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is hilarious. Because Britain on 1 September 1939 decided to declare war on Nazi Germany, any other country who didn't follow them then are cowards? How very convenient that the 6 years of British collaboration with Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1939 are wilfully overlooked by all the Irish hating British jingoists. All those years of British cowardice, of selling out the French, the Italians, the Czechs, the Austrians and, yes, the Jews are ignored because the British have decided that cowardice started with everybody else sometime after 1 September 1939.





Stunning ignorance once more. Your beloved Britain and the US weren't exactly keen on getting rid of Mr Hitler for a long, long time as they viewed him as a bulwark against their far greater evil, communism. Britain refused the USSR request for an alliance against Hitler and indeed Britain refused to invite the Russians or the Czechs, whom they were selling out, to the Munich Conference in September 1938.

The supposedly heroic Americans even recognised Vichy France as the legitimate government of France and viewed the Maquis/French Resistance as "terrorists". This US position continued until as late as December 1941, when Nazi Germany declared war on the US. Furthermore, both countries refused to take any Jewish refugees at the Evian Conference in July 1938. So much for your juxtaposition of the heroic anti-Nazi, pro-Jewish Brits and Yanks versus the cowardly Irish.

Finally, Éamon de Valera "disgraceful"? Seriously, on what planet of abject ignorance do you reside? By keeping us out of WW2 Dev was a far, far greater Irishman and defender of Irish interests than that sycophant of British imperialism John Redmond who very passionately encouraged Irishmen to die for the interests of the British Empire in WW1, and who shamelessly eulogised their deaths in that fanatical imperialist cause after Gallipoli. The Irish Quisling. And that's before we even mention your heroes of the supposedly benign British Empire who were financing and internationally defending the sectarian herrenvolk British settler-colonial statelet in the Six Counties which discriminated comprehensively against the native Irish there in the same years of WW2.

Get a blog dude. Ain’t nobody got the time or patience to read that sort of tiresome rant. Speakers corner type of stuff.

Hector Bellend

News of world war two hasnt reached cavan yet.

Whats going to happen when running water and indoor plumbing arrives

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Get a blog dude. Ain’t nobody got the time or patience to read that sort of tiresome rant. Speakers corner type of stuff.

Took me less than a minute to read it. Perhaps you could practice a wee bit? It really isn't difficult when, a post as well written as his, is there to be read.

whisky_galore

OP has eaten his words and been put back into his box?

indioblack

Deleted User wrote: »

"In 1938 four Gloster Gladiator biplane fighters were delivered – a further eight were ordered but were embargoed by the outbreak of the Second World War. Other aircraft purchased from the United Kingdom before the outbreak of war included 16 Avro Anson Mark I maritime patrol bombers, 3 Supermarine Walrus amphibians, 6 Westland Lysander Mark II army co-operation aircraft and a number of trainers.[11]"

The Irish Airforce was tiny and used, for the most part, outdated planes. Novice pilots. No radar coverage. No established anti-aircraft placements. A minuscule navy. And you expected Ireland to do what? Fight against vetern Luftwaffe pilots experienced in shooting down planes across half of Europe? Our little navy to go up against essentially an imperial navy?

"In June 1940, an Irish Marine and Coastwatching Service Motor Torpedo Boat (MTB) made two separate trips to rescue allied soldiers during the Dunkirk evacuation.[5][not in citation given] The government subsequently ordered an additional 4 MTBs. By the end of 1940 the Irish Marine and Coastwatching Service consisted of 2 MTBs and 4 other assorted craft"

The Irish airforce, and the Irish navy consisted of equipment sold off by the British and of far lesser use than modern equipment. And... The Irish were to face up against the Alliance that had defeated France? I think you're playing around too much with hindsight.

And... let's consider your outrage.. Why should Ireland have become involved in the war? The Holocaust wasn't discovered and made known until late into the war. In the eyes of Irish people, this was simply an European war. It's not as if there hadn't been a previous World War where an estimated 35k-40k Irish men died in the trenches, and millions of others died. Why would Ireland commit themselves to such a war, when their population was tiny, with any loss in men being a massive drain... and when their armed forces were essentially equipped badly for a WW1 situation nevermind about a WW2 situation.

Your outrage is naive, and ignorant. Frankly, you don't have a clue what you're complaining about. Do some bloody research. Shameful? Your attitude is shameful.

The story of downed Allied airmen being returned to the UK whilst German aircrew were interned is well known. I recall reading some years ago that a couple of up to date aircraft, [maybe Hawker Hurricanes], came down in the Free State. The pilots were returned through the north. The aircraft were repairable and entered service with the Irish airforce.
I read Larry Forrester's biography of Stanford-Tuck thirty years ago. Tuck commanded 92 Squadron in the battle of Britain. During the battle the squadron was transferred to west Wales. During a patrol over the Irish Sea they strayed too close to the Free State coastline, [may have been near Dublin], and anti-aircraft shells were fired at them. The flak was probably more of a warning. but for one of Tuck's pilots, [from the Free State], there came a tirade heard over the intercom concerning their poor marksmanship!