Abolish the Dole

Ninthlife

Try_harder wrote: »

But if its beneficial why get so annoyed! You want to call them unemployed?

I am anything but annoyed. What brought you to that conclusion?

I didnt propose to call then unemployed either.

My issue is the Government produces statistics which arent a reflection of reality

Try_harder

Ninthlife wrote: »

I am anything but annoyed. What brought you to that conclusion?

I didnt propose to call then unemployed either.

My issue is the Government produces statistics which arent a reflection of reality

the reality is they are working so what way do you want them categorised?

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

So are the non-hardworking poor people! In fact a far greater % of their money feeds directly back into the local economy and exchequer!

I wasn't talking about hard working poor people I was talking about people on the dole that contribute nothing. There was over €13 billion paid in income tax to the exchequer last year.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/930884/

Are trying to tell me people on the dole contribute more than this into the tax system?

jon1981

It's worrying that 8 people thus far agree with the OP...

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

I wasn't talking about hard working poor people I was talking about people on the dole that contribute nothing. There was over €11 billion paid in income tax to the exchequer last year.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/930884/

Are trying to tell me people on the dole contribute more than this into the tax system?

a greater % of their income goes straight back into the local economy

Try_harder

jon1981 wrote: »

It's worrying that 8 people thus far agree with the OP...

8 is low for boards, if he used the word migrants it would be most thanked post of the day!

myshirt

Try_harder wrote: »

a greater % of their income goes straight back into the local economy

Correct. Drink and fags = Highly taxable goods, lest people forget.

Ninthlife

Try_harder wrote: »

the reality is they are working so what way do you want them categorised?

They should remain as figures on the live registrar. Yes they are working but they are paid from the same DSP budget as if they were still getting jobseekers

Try_harder

myshirt wrote: »

Correct. Drink and fags = Highly taxable goods, lest people forget.

and those shops employ people! They dont buy them online!

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

a greater % of their income goes straight back into the local economy

Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

Try_harder

Ninthlife wrote: »

They should remain as figures on the live registrar. Yes they are working but they are paid from the same DSP budget as if they were still getting jobseekers

Why? They are working, not looking for work.

Should Civil Servants be included too? They are working, but its all from the exchequer!

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

Think about it, its not that difficult.

Try_harder

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/04/better-economic-growth-when-wealth-distributed-to-poor-instead-of-rich

CinemaGuy45

In reply to the OP, I think he should look to Hollywood for the solution.:D

The Purge.
The Hunger Games.
Robocop.
The Road.
The Walking Dead.
Judge Dredd.
Hostel.

Remember only the strong will survive the zombie apocalypse.

dxhound2005

Ninthlife wrote: »

They should remain as figures on the live registrar. Yes they are working but they are paid from the same DSP budget as if they were still getting jobseekers

A lot of them are in back to education schemes. Indeed some university courses are available to people on the dole who can retain their payment while studying. Since students are not counted as unemployed, it think it is fair not to count people on back to education schemes as unemployed.

Franz Von Peppercorn

DontThankMe wrote: »

Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

Not really. Give an extra 100 Euro to the poor and they spend it.the rich they are less likely to as they have enough money.

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

Think about it, its not that difficult.

Well if you take the amount of money they contribute instead of the % of their income then the higher earners are contributing a hell of lot more in tax than the people that are on the dole are. Very easy to say % of income instead of the total they contribute which is always going to be higher for people that are working versus people on the dole.

Ninthlife

Try_harder wrote: »

Why? They are working, not looking for work.

Should Civil Servants be included too? They are working, but its all from the exchequer!

You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

Regardless of my answer you will defend them.

mikeym

And there will be more elderly people on the dole when the government push up the age to claim a state pension.

How about the people that worked all their lives and hit 60 and is unemployed?

Its very hard to find a new job at that age.

Strazdas

P_1 wrote: »

It should be a safety net for when you fall on hard times after you pay into the system not a way of life.

It's a myth that people on the dole have an easy time and it's a lifestyle choice. Social Protection, Intreo, Seetec and the rest are very proactive and tens of thousands of people have had their money cut or suspended for not engaging with the system.

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Heard a mother today crying on the radio as she sees her kids for an hour after crèche each day cause she works to pay taxes etc.

She's probably leaving her children in a creche all day not because she works to pay taxes, but because she's owned by a house owns a house, and can't actually afford to own it without sacrificing all quality of life. There are huge problems there, but they are not the fault of people on the dole.

Clonmel1000

Eod100 wrote: »

Maybe thanks your rage and direct it at multinationals avoiding paying millions in tax every year. Easier to kick down though I guess

Millions? Billions I’d say.

Try_harder

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/14/where-the-poor-and-rich-spend-really-spend-their-money/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.350a1bb66dd7

Try_harder

Ninthlife wrote: »

You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

Regardless of my answer you will defend them.

But they are doing work and helping the local community, I cant see why this is an issue for you?

Try_harder

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

She's probably leaving her children in a creche all day not because she works to pay taxes, but because she's owned by a house owns a house, and can't actually afford to own it without sacrificing all quality of life. There are huge problems there, but they are not the fault of people on the dole.

And wasnt CMcC great to give us tax individualisation which saw more dual income families and house prices soar, benefiting... well developers mostly, but we all like to think its great when our house is worth more, regardless of the fact we would need a similar % increase to move if we sold it!

myshirt

DontThankMe wrote: »

Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

Please tell me you are taking the piss?

JPCN1

There is dignity in work and being given something for doing nothing doesn't help the recipient imo.

An idle mind and all that...

Ninthlife

Try_harder wrote: »

But they are doing work and helping the local community, I cant see why this is an issue for you?

You are trying to make it an issue not me.

Read back over my replies

Try_harder

Ninthlife wrote: »

You are trying to make it an issue not me.

Read back over my replies

you have an issue with it as it affects live register figures, read over your own posts perhaps???

DontThankMe

myshirt wrote: »

Please tell me you are taking the piss?

No I am not

A person earning €1,000 a week is going to be contributing more compared to a person earning €200 a week.

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

No I am not

A person earning €1,000 a week is going to be contributing more compared to a person earning €200 a week.

you miss the %?

Ninthlife

Try_harder wrote: »

you have an issue with it as it affects live register figures, read over your own posts perhaps???

No need, I know exactly the point I was making

dxhound2005

Out of a potential working population of well over 2 million, less than 50,000 are on Acitvation Programmes. For some reason those who want to criticise the government always seem to give these much bigger importance. Job Bridge now gone was limited to 8,000 places, but it was made out to be some sort of slave labour scheme.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lr/liveregisterjuly2018/

Annex - Activation Programmes

Data up to the end of June 2018 on the number of people availing of a range of programmes targeted primarily at the long-term unemployed (over 12 months) and other welfare recipients is provided in the Annex – Number of persons availing of Activation Programmes table.

There were 49,005 people availing of these programmes in June 2018, which is a decrease of 4,274 persons (-8.0%) from the previous year, when there were 53,279 people in activation programmes.

Persons on activation programmes are not counted as part of the monthly Live Register.

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

you miss the %?

Not talking about percentages as stated in my earlier post they contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I would stop all those pensioners heading off on exotic foreign holidays on their Social Welfare money. They get a lot more than the people on the dole. Make them spend the money at home.

Still blowing that auld trumpet but not getting much of a tune out of it I see.
Pensioners paid their taxes all through the years and thus deserve their pension.

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

Not talking about percentages as stated in my earlier post they contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole.

You disputed my post which had a % you quoted it so you can see it in your post too

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Still blowing that auld trumpet but not getting much of a tune out of it I see.
Pensioners paid their taxes all through the years and thus deserve their pension.

What do you think of the proposal to have workers contribute to a stand alone scheme to pay for their future pensions. A separate contribution extra to income tax and PRSI? That would be a solution since your are so interested.

Try_harder

Ninthlife wrote: »

You again missed the point and twisted it to suit your narrative.

Civil Servants are necesary in providing State services and are as such paid. Im guessing youll have an alternative view on that too

They are only working as a scheme was devised by Government in how to move people off the live registrar

Regardless of my answer you will defend them.

Im glad you feel Civil Servants are necessary- tell that to more people!

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

You disputed my post which had a % you quoted it so you can see it in your post too

You mean this one:

Well if you take the amount of money they contribute instead of the % of their income then the higher earners are contributing a hell of lot more in tax than the people that are on the dole are. Very easy to say % of income instead of the total they contribute which is always going to be higher for people that are working versus people on the dole.

Yes but as I said in the above post I was talking about the the total amount of money someone that is on a higher income compared to someone one the dole contribute. They will contribute more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole not comparing % of income that they contribute.

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

Have you got any statistics to back up this statement? Because logic would dictate that people that are earning more money would automatically be contributing mote into the local economy because they would have more disposable income than those people that are on the dole.

That one had my % quote

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gonad wrote: »

You know that type of thinking is exactly what the elite want you to think . Blame Margaret Cash for all the problems in the country . I actually thought it was strange the amount of publicity her plight was given and when you see posts like yours it’s obvious why they allowed her so much airtime.

But they wouldn’t actually give the many many genuine homeless people that kind of publicity.

And then get someone to sign up on boards.ie and start a thread about how pissed off you are and get some good rabble going. Don't even wait to see what happens or bother going back to read the responces. Get in, post, get out.

Job done by them I guess .

It is now.

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

That one had my % quote

Yes but did you read my last post I'm talking about the TOTAL amount a high income worker contributes compared to someone on the dole not percentages of income. A high income earner is always going to be contributing more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole. That is indisputable.

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

Yes but did you read my last post I'm talking about the TOTAL amount a high income worker contributes compared to someone on the dole not percentages of income. A high income earner is always going to be contributing more IN TOTAL compared to people on the dole. That is indisputable.

Not always. He could live frugally and ship it all to his Cayman Islands savings

Its a poor rerturn when you have to use totals to enhance rich people’s contribution to the local economy

smileyj1987

Ahhhh anothet day another dole bashing thread

margo321

I think politicians wages pensions and expenses should be cut.

Try_harder

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Ahhhh anothet day another dole bashing thread

I usually ignore them but I was bored tonight

DontThankMe

Try_harder wrote: »

Not always. He could live frugally and ship it all to his Cayman Islands savings

Its a poor rerturn when you have to use totals to enhance rich people’s contribution to the local economy

Not in this day and age Revenue will know how much he is earning and he will then be taxed accordingly he will still end up contributing more in total compared to some one on the dole

lawred2

John from Carlow wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people like Margaret Cash have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on Facebook. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the likes of Margaret Cash are left were they belong - in the gutter.

Her lifestyle is as far from middle class as you can get

Try_harder

DontThankMe wrote: »

Not in this day and age Revenue will know how much he is earning and he will then be taxed accordingly he will still end up contributing more in total compared to some one on the dole

What if hes resident in Malta?

Try_harder

So sky digital, internet and shopping trips to Newry makes one middle class?

Jaysus