Shaungoater wrote: » So our principal has told us our LC maths class in 5th year is now mixed ability and we are team teaching. So in our class we have foundation ordinary and higher. Is there anything that can be done about this or documents that show how crazy this is?
rainbowtrout wrote: » Is this in a small school where there is only one fifth year class?
doc_17 wrote: » There are two teacher allocated to it though so it must not be. Maybe it’s a discipline thing OP? Ring the inspectorate and ask them out for a visit. I bet it’ll change then. In the meantime, relax. The absolute carnage that will arise from this won’t be your fault.
happywithlife wrote: » happening in our place too and down a maths class with that teacher allocated as a floater between the other two for team teaching. Not going well and the higher level are already complaining of the discipline issues by the weakest ones. Seems to be this new model of SEN is to blame?
The additional Teaching Resources which are being provided under this model cannot be used for mainstream class teaching, or to reduce the pupil teacher ratio in mainstream classes, or to provide additional subjects for pupils who do not have special educational needs.Circular No 0014/2017 Page 20
15. Type of Teaching provided Additional Teaching support can be provided in a variety of ways. The special educational needs teacher might work in the classroom with the class teacher or withdraw students in small groups and/or individually for a period of time (depending upon the nature of students needs) for intensive teaching of key skills. The range of teaching supports should include team-teaching, small group teaching and, where necessary, individualised teaching to address specific learning needs. Page 18
evolving_doors wrote: » [/B] Nail on the head methinks This is my take so please correct if I'm barking up the wrong tree So: Previously schools had 're-appropriated' teachers a teaching position out of the learning support allocation (claiming that they were doing in-class support!! or some such). Teachers often didn't even know their job was not 'maths teacher', but was actually a full time learning support. Thus, they carried on with 2 seperate classses, like in the OP's case above; 1 ordinary, 1 higher level , 2 seperate teachers ; both thinking they were regular paid out of the school PTR quota etc. But 1 teacher actually paid out of Learning Support ... 'ex-quota' I think is the term. Now with the changes the dept. says you can't do that So now Principals are looking at the recommendations within the same circular. The only way they can justify that teacher as having/keeping their post is... Am I close? In fairness though the department has been giving schools the hint, up and down the country in their WSE's etc asking schools if they had 'considered team teaching'. Quite a good few posters on here (and other forums) said they were thrown into it without any warning in September. It's not really the fault of the new SEN model. Those teaching jobs were always meant for the benefit of SEN students and not having hours lumped together to create an extra teacher for regular classes.
man_no_plan wrote: » I wouldn't think so. You couldn't argue against a small foundation level class. That's small group teaching. If there's only one class I'm thinking less than 30 students in 5th year? Maybe the thinking is you justify the small honours and packed ol/FL class. Did you ask what the thinking was OP? As for reappropriation of teachers, there's probably very few full time SEN teachers. Most teachers are employed as teachers of their subjects, you have to be unless qualified in SEN, and then move into SEN. Learning support is at broad as it is tall. Small group teaching as in a very small English or maths or geography class with a target group of children is different to having two HL class of ten each.
evolving_doors wrote: » I'd have to disagree there. I was at a Learning Support conference recently and a high majority of the people were tearing shreds out of a dept. representative who was saying that it only happens in small cases (the audience actually laughed!). They were complaining of resources not coming through. We know the allocation to the school coming in ... we know the allocation to the learning support dept. going out. There is often a discrepancy.... and I doubt very much that schools are not 'using up the hours'. If you don't use them up this year you don't get next year ( first thing I was taught on a summer job scheme working in a council finance office :pac: 'doing the books'). I'd urge teachers to check how many hours their schools are getting and do the maths.http://ncse.ie/resource-teaching-hours-and-sna-allocations So if a school is getting 100hrs and there's only 2 or 3 full time LS posts, where are the other hours going? I accept it might be hard to see as its dotted over teachers timetables to make up their 22hrs . But learning support depts can see the total timetables. The fact the principal is calling it 'team teaching' is a dead giveaway. Why doesn't the school just split the class into higher + ordinary/foundation like other schools do? I'm sorry but 2 teachers in a room teaching 3 levels is fishy as hell. Its blatant that that teacher post is ex quota. You don't have to have an SEN qualification to teach it either. The dept recommends it.... but needs of the school etc.
happywithlife wrote: » 100% agree I subbed in the SEN dept once - think it was 15 hrs with no specialist training altgough I do have an interest in the area - had been accepted to.do the post grad the following yr actually but a change in principalship meant I didn't get the promised neccessary hours and so had to withdraw from the course. i know its what's happening in our school and older staff in particular are very resistant to another teacher "coming into their classroom". It's hamfisted the way it's been foisted onto people. starting with a few key players and gradually introducing it - with proper training & not just a spiel from someone at the top of a room - might have made it more palatable to staff and easier to incorporate
