Should Airb&b be classified as a business

Sheepdish1

I’m on the fence about this and am curious as to what peoples opinions are on this as I regularly hear devided opinions on it.

While I do agree that people should be allowed to make profit from rent I do feel airb&b is one factor that is contributing to current housing crises. ( this is only one factor and there are many others that need to be addressed )

I’m baffled that AirB&B houses arent classified as a business and wondering how this is this is the case.

I know that rental tax is paid on the income however if I wanted to become a taxi driver I can’t just hop in my car and start charging customers....I would need license, taxi permit , correct insurance, register as self employed etc.


Similarly if I wanted to open a restaurant for example I imagine there are processes and procedures I need to adhere to eg health and safety. I would get inspections and closed down if not complient.

I’ve often had this discussion with someone close to me and they simply reply “people should be allowed do what they want with a house they’ve bought” but I would disagree with this to an extent.

This got me thinking about people who have bought houses / apartments next to someone who has just decided to rent out on airb&b.

....as a parent I don’t think I’d like to live in a block or road full of AirB&B properties.

I’m sure there are plenty of people who have bought homes and are living next door to constant stag/hen parties etc with a constant flow of strangers coming and going in and out of an apartment complex etc.....I think it would make me a little uneasy when I think about it.

I like knowing my neighbours and the nice sense of community there is....I’ve heard of entire blocks being let out on airb&b surely there is no sense of community there.

Houses in areas that were once rented to families / workers have now turned into permanent b&bs. This is pushing these families further out and having a knock on affect in suburbs so surely this is not helping our current housing crisis.


I recently used airb&b and stayed in a purpose built student accommodation village but think that is different to a property being rented in a residential estate.

I’ve also seen a huge amount of greed with properties being rental both in the rental market and airb&b.

I know that hotels are a rip of but that’s not what I’m interested in. Should short term let’s that are not principle residence
be classified as a business and if so why and why not 😎

Sheepdish1

If this is posted in the wrong area please move

MissShihTzu

If you're renting for profit then yes. It IS a business and the appropriate taxes should be paid. It's nothing to do with greed. Air BnB is a business and should be treated as such.

Conversely, I presume the landlord will still be able to write off any expenses incurred in the upkeep of the property against tax, but stand to be corrected.

Baby01032012

They are classified as a business why do you think they are not?

Even in own home you would have to pay schedule D case II income on the profits. Can’t claim rent a room relief. In apartments it’s against the head lease and needs local planning permission as it would be a change of use. There have been cases brought recently against private houses operating Airbnb. You also need specific insurance.

Curious as what made you think it wasn’t classed as a business.

davo10

Baby01032012 wrote: »

They are classified as a business why do you think they are not?

Even in own home you would have to pay schedule D case II income on the profits. Can’t claim rent a room relief. In apartments it’s against the head lease and needs local planning permission as it would be a change of use. There have been cases brought recently against private houses operating Airbnb. You also need specific insurance.

Curious as what made you think it wasn’t classed as a business.

I totally agree, op, Airbnb income is paid into a bank account, comes with a vat receipt and the income is taxed just like any other business, also the insurance required is different from residential insurance. I'd certainly like to pay the lower, corporation tax rate on income but I doubt that is what you mean op. Op, do you mean that Airbnb properties should be subject to rates like a business?

The_Honeybadger

I think some Airbnb hosts tried to use the ‘rent a room’ scheme to justify not paying tax but Revenue are having none of it and are rightly coming after hosts for taxes owed. Yes it is a business IMO and should be treated the same as any other.

cruizer101

Part of the issue is the difference between the original concept and what it now is. Originally it was meant as a way to occasionally rent a spare room to make a bit of extra money but it has morphed into people buying properties for the sole purpose of Air B&Bing. Properties used in this fashion have changed their purpose and as such should have to apply for planning for change of use.

Edgware

It should be treated as a business. Additional income is being earned and should be taxed as in any other business with the usual allowances for refurbishment etc

DubCount

AirBnB is a business. Its taxed like any other business and should be run like any other business. I think OP is suggesting it should be a more regulated business. Perhaps it should. I dont think it will do anything to help the problems with supply of long term rentals though. There are good reasons for Landlords to be leaving the long term rental market in spite of rising rents and increasing demand. Adding some red tape to the AirBnB market wont stop that. It might put more of those properties on the For Sale market, but anyone who stopped being a long term landlord to go with short term rentals, is highly unlikely ever to return to long term renting.

Sheepdish1

Hi thanks for the replies.

Im referring to properties being bought for the sole purpose of using as airb&b.

Surely these aren’t subject to the same rates and regulations as a B&B for example.

I know there are some decent landlords however I have heard of nearly entire apartment blocks turning into Airbnb short term lets.

In cases such as that why aren’t business rates being collected?

Sheepdish1

DubCount wrote: »

AirBnB is a business. Its taxed like any other business and should be run like any other business. I think OP is suggesting it should be a more regulated business. Perhaps it should. I dont think it will do anything to help the problems with supply of long term rentals though. There are good reasons for Landlords to be leaving the long term rental market in spite of rising rents and increasing demand. Adding some red tape to the AirBnB market wont stop that. It might put more of those properties on the For Sale market, but anyone who stopped being a long term landlord to go with short term rentals, is highly unlikely ever to return to long term renting.

Yes I agree with the above but Imo it’s not treated like any other business that operates on such a large scale. For example, I personally know of people with 2-3 priorities in residential areas on Airbnb. Should these not have to pay commercial rates the same as an actual b&b would?

Similarly someone buying a house in a residential area and turning it into a b&b surely should have to apply for planning to do so.

I think this is the issue that is causing it to be regulated in other cities such as Berlin. Properties that have traditionally been long term rental properties have turned into b&bs. This has a massive knock on affect in both houses available for sale and renting imo and there is clearly a housing crises.

davo10

I'm not sure b&bs require planning nor are they always commercially rateable. It depends on whether owner lives there and if they are subject to LPT. But someone else will be able to give a more accurate update on this.

You are probably right, and it will be no great surprise to anyone when restrictions are applied to Airbnb lets, be it planning restrictions or amount of nights per year which it can be advertised. But, even if restrictions are brought in, it will be nigh on impossible to inforce, the councils nor the courts have the manpower nor the will to regulate the sector.

Though Airbnb is playing a part in the reduction in available properties for rent, it is a soft and easy target. The lack of housing and idiotic tenancy legislation is having a far bigger impact than Airbnb ever will.

davindub

davo10 wrote: »

I'm not sure b&bs require planning nor are they always commercially rateable. It depends on whether owner lives there and if they are subject to LPT. But someone else will be able to give a more accurate update on this.

You are probably right, and it will be no great surprise to anyone when restrictions are applied to Airbnb lets, be it planning restrictions or amount of nights per year which it can be advertised. But, even if restrictions are brought in, it will be nigh on impossible to inforce, the councils nor the courts have the manpower nor the will to regulate the sector. The big advantage Airbnb has going for it is that it is not a cash business/transaction to Revenue are far more likely to collect taxes than with other forms of short term rentals.

Though Airbnb is playing a part in the reduction in available properties for rent, it is a soft and easy target. The lack of housing and idiotic tenancy legislation is having a far bigger impact than Airbnb ever will.

B&Bs require planning.

There is an exemption for dwellings ( note a dwelling must be occupied by a resident to remain a dwelling) with less than 4 bedrooms for use as guest accommodation.

Rates are not applicable to b&bs but are to guesthouses registered with failte Ireland as far as i remember but i was never too sure on the finer details of this distinction, there are some large B&Bs but I took it to refer to guesthouses as the type of accommodation you see on gardiner street.

Mrs OBumble

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Im referring to properties being bought for the sole purpose of using as airb&b.

Surely these aren’t subject to the same rates and regulations as a B&B for example.

Of course they are. But the truth is there are very few regulations.

A bnb is just that, no matter how it gets its guests. AirBnB is the trendy booking engine right now. But there have been others in the past, and will be again in the future.

beauf

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

....

I’m baffled that AirB&B houses arent classified as a business and wondering how this is this is the case.

....

Because the govt doesn't want to solve the housing crisis. It wants to fuel it.

Every time the Govt has done something with the rental market, the crisis has got worse.

It's logical that any move on Abnb will do the same.

davo10

davindub wrote: »

B&Bs require planning.

There is an exemption for dwellings ( note a dwelling must be occupied by a resident to remain a dwelling) with less than 4 bedrooms for use as guest accommodation.

Rates are not applicable to b&bs but are to guesthouses registered with failte Ireland as far as i remember but i was never too sure on the finer details of this distinction, there are some large B&Bs but I took it to refer to guesthouses as the type of accommodation you see on gardiner street.

This seems to be what you are rightly referring to.

http://www.taxfind.ie/binaryDocument//pdfs/http___www_revenue_ie_en_about_foi_s16_local_property_tax_part_02_02_02_pdf.pdf

Ger Roe

What about other related aspects of providing accommodation as a business such as public liability insurance and safety requirements - fire escape routes and identification, fire alarm requirements, service and maintenance of fossil fuel burning heating systems.

Do air B&B have anything to say about minimum safety standards for the accommodation that they list or is it 'buyer beware' decide for yourself what you want to pay for?

davo10

Ger Roe wrote: »

What about other related aspects of providing accommodation as a business such as public liability insurance and safety requirements - fire escape routes and identification, fire alarm requirements, service and maintenance of fossil fuel burning heating systems.

Do air B&B have anything to say about minimum safety standards for the accommodation that they list or is it 'buyer beware' decide for yourself what you want to pay for?

The insurance provided by Airbnb is not enough to cover Irish property owners, but Kidd insurance, Burke insurance and insureyourhouse.ie do provide the top up insurance needed.

DubCount

beauf wrote: »

Because the govt doesn't want to solve the housing crisis. It wants to fuel it.

Every time the Govt has done something with the rental market, the crisis has got worse.

It's logical that any move on Abnb will do the same.

I don't think that's fair. I think the Government wants to solve the housing crisis. Their problem is that the steps needed to fix the problem are either unpopular, expensive or both.

Direct provision of more social housing - too expensive

Quick eviction of non-paying tenants - too unpopular ("looking after rich landlords and bashing the poor tenants")

Tax breaks to encourage more landlords to do long term letting - expensive and unpopular.

Any move on AirBnB will not change the fact that the risk v reward calculation for long term letting just doesn't add up.

Sleeper12

Airbnb is treaded as a business. Airbnb give all the the details to the revenue

davo10

DubCount wrote: »

I don't think that's fair. I think the Government wants to solve the housing crisis. Their problem is that the steps needed to fix the problem are either unpopular, expensive or both.

Direct provision of more social housing - too expensive

Quick eviction of non-paying tenants - too unpopular ("looking after rich landlords and bashing the poor tenants")

Tax breaks to encourage more landlords to do long term letting - expensive and unpopular.

Any move on AirBnB will not change the fact that the risk v reward calculation for long term letting just doesn't add up.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

All you have to do is ask yourself, if you had cash in the bank, what would entice you to buy a property which is overpriced at the moment, and rent it long term to a tenant?

And if you have a property to rent, why rent it long term when you can earn more and have less risk by renting it short term?

Sheepdish1

Ger Roe wrote: »

What about other related aspects of providing accommodation as a business such as public liability insurance and safety requirements - fire escape routes and identification, fire alarm requirements, service and maintenance of fossil fuel burning heating systems.

Do air B&B have anything to say about minimum safety standards for the accommodation that they list or is it 'buyer beware' decide for yourself what you want to pay for?

That is also a good point I am also surprised that regulations haven't been enforced in relation to health and safety. They are good points such as fire escape routes, carbon monoxide alarms and proper maintenance of fossil fuel burning.

What is the difference between me letting my house out on AirB&B or turning my car into a taxi?

beauf

DubCount wrote: »

I don't think that's fair. I think the Government wants to solve the housing crisis. Their problem is that the steps needed to fix the problem are either unpopular, expensive or both.....

How is it not fair. They outsourced it to the private sector then massively increased the risk of losing huge sums of money. Then wonder why no one's interested.

Take the idea of rent paid in arrears. The LL loans the rent to the govt and the tenant for the first month. When the norm is pay in advance.

beauf

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

That is also a good point I am also surprised that regulations haven't been enforced in relation to health and safety. They are good points such as fire escape routes, carbon monoxide alarms and proper maintenance of fossil fuel burning.

What is the difference between me letting my house out on AirB&B or turning my car into a taxi?

Why surprised. We've had massive scandals about regulations not being followed in buildings all over.

davo10

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

That is also a good point I am also surprised that regulations haven't been enforced in relation to health and safety. They are good points such as fire escape routes, carbon monoxide alarms and proper maintenance of fossil fuel burning.

What is the difference between me letting my house out on AirB&B or turning my car into a taxi?

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this. Planning/building/Rental regulations mean properties have to meet a minimum standard. Your car must meet minimum NCT standards to be roadworthy. Insurance for both means certain criteria must be met. H&S requirements for a residential/rental property do not require the same standards as workplaces for employees. Risk assessment and associated premiums mean insurers take into account the difference between personal use and public liability for rental accommodation.

Sheepdish1

Airbnb is similar to a small scale B&B which if there are less than 4 rooms does not require planning etc you can just set it up and off you go (as was already mentioned).

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Ger Roe wrote: »

What about other related aspects of providing accommodation as a business such as public liability insurance and safety requirements - fire escape routes and identification, fire alarm requirements, service and maintenance of fossil fuel burning heating systems.

Do air B&B have anything to say about minimum safety standards for the accommodation that they list or is it 'buyer beware' decide for yourself what you want to pay for?

That is also a good point I am also surprised that regulations haven't been enforced in relation to health and safety. They are good points such as fire escape routes, carbon monoxide alarms and proper maintenance of fossil fuel burning.

What is the difference between me letting my house out on AirB&B or turning my car into a taxi?

Ever hear of Uber?

davindub

Noelle Wrong Babe wrote: »

Airbnb is similar to a small scale B&B which if there are less than 4 rooms does not require planning etc you can just set it up and off you go (as was already mentioned).

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Ger Roe wrote: »

What about other related aspects of providing accommodation as a business such as public liability insurance and safety requirements - fire escape routes and identification, fire alarm requirements, service and maintenance of fossil fuel burning heating systems.

Do air B&B have anything to say about minimum safety standards for the accommodation that they list or is it 'buyer beware' decide for yourself what you want to pay for?

That is also a good point I am also surprised that regulations haven't been enforced in relation to health and safety. They are good points such as fire escape routes, carbon monoxide alarms and proper maintenance of fossil fuel burning.

What is the difference between me letting my house out on AirB&B or turning my car into a taxi?

Ever hear of Uber?

Important to remember if there is no one living there it is in breach of planning.

There is no exemption in regards h&s legislation, you need to provide emergency exits and routes etc.

beauf

davindub wrote: »

Important to remember if there is no one living there it is in breach of planning....

What?

Sleeper12

beauf wrote:

What?

B&Bs have to have owner or staff living on the premises I think.

Airbnb does not have to have staff or owners living there

Idbatterim

Ultimately I’d expect it to take bed spaces out of circulation if they ban it. I also am totally against them banning it. The council, councillors are primarily taking the piss and are at fault. Why should they dictate to you, what you do with YOUR property?!

beauf

Considering they councils outsouced social housing to the private sector in the first place.