Should Airb&b be classified as a business

Sleeper12

Idbatterim wrote:

Ultimately I’d expect it to take bed spaces out of circulation if they ban it. I also am totally against them banning it. The council, councillors are primarily taking the piss and are at fault. Why should they dictate to you, what you do with YOUR property?!

You don't have planning permission to run a business from your property. They have every right to dictate.

Airbnb is classified as a business. Business needs planning permission

Bluefoam

I don't have a problem with Airbnb being regulated. If a landlord is letting a house on a regular short term basis, then it's a hotel and should be regulated as such. Whether the current standards are altered to accommodate or not... However, individuals renting out a spare room or even a full let occasionally via Airbnb should be allowed to do so once it's their primary residence.

Mrs OBumble

Sleeper12 wrote: »

B&Bs have to have owner or staff living on the premises I think.

No they don't have to - although many choose to.

In many modern BnB, once reception is closed you won't see a soul. Bookings are done thru engines like bookings.com etc. AirBnB is just a better known booking engine.

Fire safety etc is to do with the number of beds in the building, not the lenght of time that the bodies in the beds stay for.

Edgware

In many cases objections to Airbnb is just envy that someone else is making money.
How many complaints have there been of Airbnb guests causing nuisance in apartment blocks?. Fairly minimal and would be interesting to compare with the normal residents, be they owners or tenants.
Just typical Irish begrudgery.

Sleeper12

Edgware wrote:

In many cases objections to Airbnb is just envy that someone else is making money. How many complaints have there been of Airbnb guests causing nuisance in apartment blocks?. Fairly minimal and would be interesting to compare with the normal residents, be they owners or tenants. Just typical Irish begrudgery.

They are a security risk to other apartment owners /occupiers. Renting let's one or two different people have building keys and codes. Airbnb can increase that number to over 1000 people. Anyone of these can get keys cut. It has insurance implications. Running a business in a building intended for private use without planning can give insurance companies a get out of jail card. It's not unlike having private car insurance but using it for business.

davindub

beauf wrote: »

davindub wrote: »

Important to remember if there is no one living there it is in breach of planning....

What?

If a house has planning permission as a dwelling it must continue to be used as a dwelling.

The exemption for B&B activities under 4 rooms can then be applied..but it must remain a dwelling also.

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Idbatterim wrote:

Ultimately I’d expect it to take bed spaces out of circulation if they ban it. I also am totally against them banning it. The council, councillors are primarily taking the piss and are at fault. Why should they dictate to you, what you do with YOUR property?!

You don't have planning permission to run a business from your property. They have every right to dictate.

Airbnb is classified as a business. Business needs planning permission

In theory in needs planning but in practice how many of the fairly large number of Airbnb’s in Ireland have planning? Somewhere close to zero I would guess.

Sleeper12

Brooks Late Pepperoni wrote:

In theory in needs planning but in practice how many of the fairly large number of Airbnb’s in Ireland have planning? Somewhere close to zero I would guess.

That doesn't mean that they aren't breaking planning regulations though. Many cyclists break red lights, that doesn't mean that it's legal though.

Airbnb is classed as a business. You need to have planning permission to run a business from a private dwelling.

It's treated as a business under tax law too. You can't avail of the rent a room scheme if you are using Airbnb. In fact Airbnb notify revenue of people renting out their rooms and properties through Airbnb. It also notifies revenue of the amount that earn through Airbnb

italodisco

Odd how everyone likes to blame the likes of Airbnb for the housing crisis but won't highlight the obvious, the endless stream of Brazilians flooding the main cities, renting the majority of 1 beds and putting 5 friends in with them.
That's more so the problem, sorry but it's true

Sleeper12

italodisco wrote:

Odd how everyone likes to blame the likes of Airbnb for the housing crisis but won't highlight the obvious, the endless stream of Brazilians flooding the main cities, renting the majority of 1 beds and putting 5 friends in with them. That's more so the problem, sorry but it's true

That makes no sense at all?

Simple maths tells me that, assuming what you say is true, five people in a one room flat actually helps keep the homeless numbers down and not up.

It's the slumlords that allow overcrowding are to blame & not the tenants they are exploiting. These slumlords charge rent for the five people

AndrewJRenko

davo10 wrote: »

The insurance provided by Airbnb is not enough to cover Irish property owners, but Kidd insurance, Burke insurance and insureyourhouse.ie do provide the top up insurance needed.

Is top-up insurance enough? Do you need to tell your main insurer that you're in the short term let business?

beauf wrote: »

Take the idea of rent paid in arrears. The LL loans the rent to the govt and the tenant for the first month. When the norm is pay in advance.

No, the norm for Government paying anyone for anything is in arrears, on receipt of invoice, in line with prompt payments legislation.

Noelle Wrong Babe wrote: »

Ever hear of Uber?

Ever heard why Uber can't operate in Ireland?

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Is top-up insurance enough? Do you need to tell your main insurer that you're in the short term let business?

100 percent correct here. You need to tell insurance that it is Airbnb. Regular rental insurance isn't enough & they may not pay out a claim if not told all the details

Sheepdish1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are a security risk to other apartment owners /occupiers. Renting let's one or two different people have building keys and codes. Airbnb can increase that number to over 1000 people. Anyone of these can get keys cut. It has insurance implications. Running a business in a building intended for private use without planning can give insurance companies a get out of jail card. It's not unlike having private car insurance but using it for business.

Yes that true, I'm sure there are many people that would feel uneasy at the idea of complete strangers having keys to access apartment blocks.

AFAIK Uber can't operate here because you need an actual taxi / hackney permit in exchange for paying passengers but I could be wrong.

davo10

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is top-up insurance enough? Do you need to tell your main insurer that you're in the short term let business?

Sorry, yes you do. Many of the main insurers will not continue to insure you, Aviva would not give me a quote when I informed them I was doing Airbnb. Some insurers will only insure Airbnb if you are also living in the property and letting out a room. But I did get insurance from one of the companies I mentioned which had a standard residential property insurance, plus the additional top up for Airbnb. There was only €100 extra above Avivas standard residential insurance, so good value for extra cover and piece of mind.

Sheepdish1

italodisco wrote: »

Odd how everyone likes to blame the likes of Airbnb for the housing crisis but won't highlight the obvious, the endless stream of Brazilians flooding the main cities, renting the majority of 1 beds and putting 5 friends in with them.
That's more so the problem, sorry but it's true

I don't think for one minute that AirB&B is the main cause of the housing crises but of course it one factor of many making it worse as there are so many properties that once were long term rentals have now become hotels..........I'm not referring to principle residence homes where rooms are being let out , I'm referring to entire apartments.

There has been many cities that has implemented strict regulations with heavy fines if breached to stop this sort of short term letting

Selik

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are a security risk to other apartment owners /occupiers. Renting let's one or two different people have building keys and codes. Airbnb can increase that number to over 1000 people. Anyone of these can get keys cut. It has insurance implications. Running a business in a building intended for private use without planning can give insurance companies a get out of jail card. It's not unlike having private car insurance but using it for business.

This is nonsense. Been doing it for over a year and ZERO complaints or issues - having said that I was apprehensive beforehand. Also, nobody can get any master keys cut for the apartment complex without owner approval so there is very little security risk.

Having said that the apartment complex in question is extremely well run with an excellent management company, possibly the exception the the rule but I don't know to be honest.

Sleeper12

Selik wrote:

This is nonsense. Been doing it for over a year and ZERO complaints or issues - having said that I was apprehensive beforehand. Also, nobody can get any master keys cut for the apartment complex without owner approval so there is very little security risk.

Just because you haven't had a problem in a year doesn't make it nonsense. There is a reason why it is harder to get insurance when doing Airbnb & a reason why the insurance is more expensive when you do manage to get it

davo10

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Just because you haven't had a problem in a year doesn't make it nonsense. There is a reason why it is harder to get insurance when doing Airbnb & a reason why the insurance is more expensive when you do manage to get it

The added Airbnb insurance is just for bodily injury to guests and damage caused by them. There was just over €100 difference between my normal home insurance with aviva and home insurance with added Airbnb with another insurer who provides this. A few minutes on google and an extra €100 is hardly a burden.

Sleeper12

davo10 wrote:

The added Airbnb insurance is just for bodily injury to guests and damage caused by them. There was just over €100 difference between my normal home insurance with aviva and home insurance with added Airbnb with another insurer who provides this. A few minutes on google and an extra €100 is hardly a burden.

Yes but it is 100 more expensive. Its a higher risk. Its also a higher risk for you neighbours though.

Selik

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Just because you haven't had a problem in a year doesn't make it nonsense. There is a reason why it is harder to get insurance when doing Airbnb & a reason why the insurance is more expensive when you do manage to get it

Insurance to cover short lets is less than 150 a year so not that bad really. What a few agents told me is that most of the city centre "hosts" (especially Temple Bar) are actually foreign tenants who in alot of cases rent whole apartments (sometimes more than 1) and then Airbnb them without the owners consent or knowledge in alot cases.

bigpink

italodisco wrote: »

Odd how everyone likes to blame the likes of Airbnb for the housing crisis but won't highlight the obvious, the endless stream of Brazilians flooding the main cities, renting the majority of 1 beds and putting 5 friends in with them.
That's more so the problem, sorry but it's true

Same in Limerick full of students going to dodgy colleges and then Indian Pakistan Turks Afghans illegals

LiamoSail

italodisco wrote: »

Odd how everyone likes to blame the likes of Airbnb for the housing crisis but won't highlight the obvious, the endless stream of Brazilians flooding the main cities, renting the majority of 1 beds and putting 5 friends in with them.
That's more so the problem, sorry but it's true

Demand being greater than supply is the issue. Whether that demand is from the Irish, the Brazilians or the Yemenite Arabs is entirely irrelevant

Just did a quick search for a weekend in Dublin, refining search to whole properties only. 306 results came back. Imagine if even 1/3 of these properties were freed up for long term rent? 100 families housed isn’t to be sneezed at.

davo10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just did a quick search for a weekend in Dublin, refining search to whole properties only. 306 results came back. Imagine if even 1/3 of these properties were freed up for long term rent? 100 families housed isn’t to be sneezed at.

Would 100 of those families be able to pay €1500 + per month? And they would be competing with the hundreds of others who would also be applying for the tenancies. Airbnb isn't the answer to the housing crises.

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Just did a quick search for a weekend in Dublin, refining search to whole properties only. 306 results came back. Imagine if even 1/3 of these properties were freed up for long term rent? 100 families housed isn’t to be sneezed at.

and a 90 day government backed forced eviction process , lowering taxation on landlords and allowing them to decline HAP/RA would give you back those properties. At the moment every tenant has to basically convince a landlord from the point of introduction that they're not going to go on HAP and overhold rent after being told to leave. A terrifying prospect that makes Airbnb just better business even if the money was the same, but its more.

Eric Cartman

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are a security risk to other apartment owners /occupiers. Renting let's one or two different people have building keys and codes. Airbnb can increase that number to over 1000 people. Anyone of these can get keys cut. It has insurance implications. Running a business in a building intended for private use without planning can give insurance companies a get out of jail card. It's not unlike having private car insurance but using it for business.

you can fit electronic keypad locks that have codes changed per visit or periodically , I resell systems that do this and clients with 25+ properties a piece who are very happy with it. You can also get locks that have security keys which can't be duplicated without authorisation . Not that big a deal.

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Ever heard why Uber can't operate in Ireland?

because the government can't stand freedom, choice and competition.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

because the government can't stand freedom, choice and competition.

Or maybe because the Government can't stand having unlicensed, unvetted and untrained drivers driving vehicles that are inaccessible for disabled people taking our intoxicated family members home after a night out?

Eric Cartman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or maybe because the Government can't stand having unlicensed, unvetted and untrained drivers driving vehicles that are inaccessible for disabled people taking our intoxicated family members home after a night out?

most cars are inaccessible to disabled people , they have a driving licence and uber verify id details and address , if somebody wants to make a choice that that is enough for them and they save money then so be it.

The real reason uber isn't allowed here is because of the crusty old unions that still have lobbying power here.

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

most cars are inaccessible to disabled people , they have a driving licence and uber verify id details and address , if somebody wants to make a choice that that is enough for them and they save money then so be it.

The real reason uber isn't allowed here is because of the crusty old unions that still have lobbying power here.

Taxi drivers aren't employees, so they don't have trade unions. They have some 'representative groups', but their lobbying power is fairly limited. If they had significant lobbying power, there would lots of changes to the current system.


The real reason Uber isn't allowed here is because there is little demand for a race to the bottom situation with untrained and unvetted drivers (no Garda vetting) dealing with people in vulnerable situations.



At present, the only new taxi licences on the street are through the Wheelchair Accessible Vehicle scheme from the NTA, with the NTA covering a portion of the vehicle purchase costs. This has been the system for a few years now, which has brought a significant number of WAVs into the taxi fleet. The percentage of accessible vehicles is still fairly low - about 1600 out of more than 20,000 cars in total, but it is a big improvement on where it was a few years back.


If Uber could operate here, there would be zero new licences being issued by NTA and zero opportunities to increase the number of WAVs in the fleet, or improve the quality of the fleet generally.


And that's before you consider issues such as training around accepting guide dogs or dealing with deaf passengers or passengers with intellectual disabilities.