NI secretary didn't get why 'people who are nationalists don't vote for unionists'

riffmongous

Speaking in an interview to The House magazine, Bradley said, “I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn’t understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland.

“I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland, people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa. So, the parties fight for the election within their own community... That’s a very different world from the world I came from.”

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

bear1

To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.

riffmongous

bear1 wrote: »

To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.

Ah come on this isn't an american tourist or something we are talking about, you'd expect someone in this position to have far more than the most basic understanding of what's going on, which she didn't even have.

DrumSteve

riffmongous wrote: »

Ah come on this isn't an american tourist or something we are talking about, you'd expect someone in this position to have far more than the most basic understanding of what's going on, which she didn't even have.

Have to agree; her job is specifically to manage that part of the UK, she could have even wiki'd it. It would have taken about 2 minutes.

uck51js9zml2yt

Not sure what's worse.not knowing or admitting she didn't know!

listermint

bear1 wrote: »

To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.

This is the basics...

Its not the full suite of the problems.


If someone hasnt got the graps of this and is involved in British politics, well then that explains brexit.


Morons

uch

Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

riffmongous

Lyra Agreeable Cupcake wrote: »

Not sure what's worse.not knowing or admitting she didn't know!

Freely admitting even, not even slightly embarrassed by it. What's next, 'minister for brexit not ashamed he couldn't count past 10 when given job'??

Gimme A Pound

uch wrote: »

Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

She's the Northern Ireland secretary though, so that shouldn't have any bearing.

uch

Mohamed Fancy X-ray wrote: »

She's the Northern Ireland secretary though, so that shouldn't have any bearing.

All I'm saying is she's not in the Minority

Your Face

Big wall.

per aspera ad astra

Your Face wrote: »

Big wall.

What about a big wall?

4068ac1elhodqr

Later on, possibly after being shown a map, she was shown what areas were 'colour coded' as shades of either 'green', or 'orange',
maybe she pointed to the 'blue bit in the middle' and asked "And who on earth are these people?".



"Err, that's Lough Neagh", someone else said, interjecting into the conversation.

Being a unionist must be pretty tough these days. It's like a nice guy in love with a girl who doesn't even know he exists.

meathstevie

Is she not a member of the "Conservative and Unionist Party".........

joe40

It is actually disgraceful that a government minister, or high ranking politician should have such poor knowledge of their own country. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the British establishment have nothing but disdain for the area. For years, until the civil rights marches it was allowed to fester as an apartheid state, with no effort to intervene.

When the troubles kicked off the narrative for the typical British/English was just a religious war with no thing to do with them or their policies. Regardless of your views the issues in Northern Ireland are complex, this couldn't care less attitude unless there is violence is not acceptable.

dxhound2005

Big Ian Paisley always claimed that he got a lot of Catholic votes.

BalcombeSt4

Well if you don't understand the sh!t up there, don't get involved in the **** up there.

Britain has been involved now in 6 county politics for the last 5 decades now & pushing 6.

Nationalists don't vote Unionist because since 1966 Unionist/Loyalist paramilitaries waged a bloody sectarian campaign against them until 1999, killing close to one thousand civilians.

eyeball kid

She should have watched this. It would have explained everything..

zapitastas

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Big Ian Paisley always claimed that he got a lot of Catholic votes.

He did claim that but it was rubbish. They voting patterns in the constitutency didn't reflect that. As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.

chopperbyrne

zapitastas wrote: »

As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.

Black people and women voted for Trump.

NIMAN

As daft as it makes her sound, it does show how silly NI politics is.

Take the latest antics of Ian Paisley Jr.

If he took luxury holidays for free withiut declaring them in the UK, he'd be dead as a politician.

But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

DEFTLEFTHAND

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Black people and women voted for Trump.

And?

dxhound2005

zapitastas wrote: »

He did claim that but it was rubbish. They voting patterns in the constitutency didn't reflect that. As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.

I went looking for any information on the internet, being aware that I had heard him claiming that on the radio. But I couldn't find anything. Have you got actual voting patterns for places in North Antrim for all of his elections?

More recently the DUP has claimed that conservative Catholics were voting for them, having felt abandoned by Sinn Fein's stance on abortion.

riffmongous

NIMAN wrote: »

As daft as it makes her sound, it does show how silly NI politics is.

Take the latest antics of Ian Paisley Jr.

If he took luxury holidays for free withiut declaring them in the UK, he'd be dead as a politician.

But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

I don't think anyone would dispute how mad NI politics are, but it's more the fact we have someone in charge who doesnt seem to have had the most basic grasp of NI appointed as Secretary at a time when the local politics was floundering, and surprise surprise we haven't seen any progress on that front since her appointment, except for the most uninspired solution of a threat to cut wages a few days ago

BalcombeSt4

joe40 wrote: »

It is actually disgraceful that a government minister, or high ranking politician should have such poor knowledge of their own country. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the British establishment have nothing but disdain for the area. For years, until the civil rights marches it was allowed to fester as an apartheid state, with no effort to intervene.

When the troubles kicked off the narrative for the typical British/English was just a religious war with no thing to do with them or their policies. Regardless of your views the issues in Northern Ireland are complex, this couldn't care less attitude unless there is violence is not acceptable.

It's part of the UK for now.

Anyway British politicians not knowing anything about Ireland isn't anything new. I read in Peter Taylors 3 different series on on The Troubles Provo's, Loyalists & Brits.
In the Brits one Sir Frank Cooper says:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

There was a fear that you were going into an unknown mire, that you didn’t know what was there, you didn’t know what was going to happen to you when you were there, and how you got out at the other side of the bog. ..... [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] TAYLOR: Few imagined then (August 1969) that over 1000 soldiers and policemen would die.
Did you lack knowledge of Ireland?
COOPER: Oh yes. I don’t know anybody who knew a great deal about Ireland.
[/FONT]

[/FONT]

They'd be better off just getting out of Ireland altogether. Know knoweldge of the place, majority of British people have disdain for the place, they don't want to be in the place, violence could flair up again.

Yer Da sells Avon

She was born in 1970, so she must never have watched the news or read a paper throughout the '80s or '90s. Mind you, the north was usually item five on ITN/BBC News, so she probably would have to do a bit of independent digging to get beyond the 'IRA = baddies, British Army = goodies, Loyalist terrorists = who?' narrative.

There's lots of selective quoting of this interview. What she actually said was:

“I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn’t understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland,” she said.

“I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.

“So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities.

“That’s a very different world from the world I came from where in Staffordshire Moorlands I was fighting a Labour-held seat as a Conservative politician and I was trying to put forward why you would want to switch from voting Labour to voting Conservative.

Grayson

riffmongous wrote: »

I don't think anyone would dispute how mad NI politics are, but it's more the fact we have someone in charge who doesnt seem to have had the most basic grasp of NI appointed as Secretary at a time when the local politics was floundering, and surprise surprise we haven't seen any progress on that front since her appointment, except for the most uninspired solution of a threat to cut wages a few days ago

To be fair, feck all do. I'd say that within the political establishment there's many who haven't got a clue. And the same goes for the British people. Remember that bit where someone got them to draw Northern Ireland on a map? There were people slicing off donegal into the North. And I think at one point even westmeath got it.

At least she was honest enough to admit it.

indioblack

riffmongous wrote: »

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

They can give me the job. I'm from England, [by way of Cork], and I knew more as a teenager in the 1960's. Perhaps I read different books than the minister. As a teenager, talking to my Irish relatives gave me a clue that all was not well[!]
I didn't have to agree with everything I listened to, watched or read - but at least I wasn't unaware.

SEPT 23 1989

She is no Peter Brooke

Atoms for Peace

Yadiel Stale Thud wrote: »

Later on, possibly after being shown a map, she was shown what areas were 'colour coded' as shades of either 'green', or 'orange',
maybe she pointed to the 'blue bit in the middle' and asked "And who on earth are these people?".



"Err, that's Lough Neagh", someone else said, interjecting into the conversation.

Atlantians?:pac:

4068ac1elhodqr

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Atlantians?:pac:

Suppose back in the 16th century the blues would be Scots or Gallowglass as apposed to Gaels vs Norman/Old English.

Maybe further back the jolly Viking lads up against the various Clans of O', Mc, Burke, Butler, Fitz and whatever else.

Just checked that map is slightly out of date from 2001 census,
and the Green colour by numbers areas may well become the majority hue around 2030.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

What would Ian Snr think?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

What would Ian think?

ULSTER SAYS...NO...SOMETIMES.

The Rape of Lucretia

Adds substance to the idea that Great Britain may be going for a forced detachment of the NI from the UK. Clearly it solves the intractable Brexit problem that is holding up negotiations and the drafting of a truly workable post-Brexit relationship. Whether it subsequently chooses to join the republic would be up to an internal referendum, with the alternative being a new independent country of NI, or at best, a Crown Dependency. Either way, Westminster would be rid of the particular problem that NI presents it. Having an NI secretary who is effectively entirely ignorant of it, shows how distant NI is from any serious consideration in the British Govt. And, there is nothing the people of NI could do about it. They would simply be cut adrift.

riffmongous

indioblack wrote: »

They can give me the job. I'm from England, [by way of Cork], and I knew more as a teenager in the 1960's. Perhaps I read different books than the minister. As a teenager, talking to my Irish relatives gave me a clue that all was not well[!]
I didn't have to agree with everything I listened to, watched or read - but at least I wasn't unaware.

I'm sorry but you are far too overqualified for the position

ted1

uch wrote: »

Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

nice_guy80

The people of the UK don't care about NI

ted1

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The people of the UK don't care about NI

You mean the people of GB.

The Uk is GB and NI

timbel

NIMAN wrote: »

But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

Not unique to NI, I think you'll find. Michael Lowry anyone?

the_syco

riffmongous wrote: »

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

Capt'n Midnight

ted1 wrote: »

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

3,000 people died in The Troubles.

The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.


In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.

NI elected exactly ZERO MPs from English parties.

Lefties don't vote Tory. It's not like there's a lot of Conservative MPs in certain parts of England either.

The UK is full of safe seats too, where the result is a foregone conclusion.



This isn't rocket surgery.

This is not doing any research or not even asking the stupid question or not asking anyone to get her up to speed.



Mo Mowlan she ain't.

Capt'n Midnight

the_syco wrote: »

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

SDLP will sit, if elected. Alliance too. But its FPTP


SF have abstained since before the founding of the state, so its not like the electorate have any expectations on this. FPTP means you MUST vote for whoever is most likely to beat the person you don't want to win. All other considerations are moot.

Down here we can vote for who you want AND use other preferences as a Plan-B to keep your vote far away from those you don't want to win.

Folkstonian

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

indioblack

Folkstonian wrote: »

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

I think she was emphasizing her surprise at the fact nationalist and unionist politicians don’t actually compete with each other for votes, they compete with other nationalist or unionist parties.

pickarooney

Folkstonian wrote: »

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

In any job in the world you have to have a bare minimum of knowledge of the role you're expected to fill. Why is such an important appointment exempt from that?

twinytwo

the_syco wrote: »

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

they better go begging for that funding, considering foster cost the country close to 500 million pounds..

TheQuietFella

riffmongous wrote: »

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

But isn't that just typical of the British viewpoint!

Annasopra

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

3,000 people died in The Troubles.

The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.


In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.
...

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.