NI secretary didn't get why 'people who are nationalists don't vote for unionists'

Annasopra

indioblack wrote: »

Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.

But if she didnt know she was going to get the job?

zapitastas

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But if she didnt know she was going to get the job?

Well then appoint someone who would know a little about the situation. There must be someone that would have some knowledge and understanding

backspin.

It's amazing that someone could grow up during the trouble, especially a future politician and not have the interest to do a little reading on the problem within her own country at the time.

Capt'n Midnight

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

SNP still have more than twice the number of seats of everyone else put together. Labour and Lib Dems still only got one seat each.

Given that 38% of Scottish Voters voted leave and the 2017 election was all about Brexit the Tory vote is unimpressive. Also unimpressive is what the Scottish Conservatives have delivered for Scotland, the DUP got a lot more for less seats.

By ditching Scotland the Tories could perhaps keep a majority for another generation. OAP's are dying at a rate of 2% a year, something the conservatives are well aware of.


Ditching NI would save a lot more than what they spend on the EU.

Oddly enough even though the Unionists vote Tory and SF abstain it was Labour that appointed the only decent secretary.

The Rape of Lucretia

zapitastas wrote: »

Well then appoint someone who would know a little about the situation. There must be someone that would have some knowledge and understanding

They are minsterial appointments. Systematically, they have no background or expertise in their brief. It is the flaw in parliamentary cabinet politics. The people who would fit the job description are the various heads of departments. Its how we appoint ministers of finance who have no higher education at all, health ministers who have been educated to be journalists, or housing ministers trained in English and philosophy (and then wonder why we dont have enough houses).
No different really.

ELM327

The british people en masse don't care (or in some cases don't even know the major details) about the north.
I don't see why she is being laughed at for this.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

so what? That’s the way it is still, more or less. SNP still at 40% enough to win all Westminster seats if divided equally amongst constituencies.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ELM327 wrote: »

The british people en masse don't care (or in some cases don't even know the major details) about the north.
I don't see why she is being laughed at for this.

Jesus wept. Firstly they should know about what is part of the U.K. Its not a large country.

Secondly she’s the actual minister for the place. Even if she were ignorant beforehand she should have done her research before talking about the place.

Thirdly she was 28 when the good Friday agreement was struck - you would have had to avoid all news sources in those 28 years to not understand the divided loyalties in Northern Ireland.

ELM327

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Jesus wept. Firstly they should know about what is part of the U.K. Its not a large country.

Secondly she’s the actual minister for the place. Even if she were ignorant beforehand she should have done her research before talking about the place.

Thirdly she was 28 when the good Friday agreement was struck - you would have had to avoid all news sources in those 28 years to not understand the divided loyalties in Northern Ireland.

Jesus wept.
No one cares in the UK about the 6 counties to the north of Ireland.
A lot of them still refer to the UK as "the mainland" when they are in Ireland.


Let's look at this another way. She's a minister of state. In many governments, ministers of state are not experts in their field.



What difference does the GFA make to someone in London, Birmingham, Newcastle etc. None. You may aswell say they should know what happened to the EU ruling regarding Kohll vs "Union des Caisses de Maladie", as it was 28 years ago too.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ELM327 wrote: »

Jesus wept.
No one cares in the UK about the 6 counties to the north of Ireland.
A lot of them still refer to the UK as "the mainland" when they are in Ireland.

It’s part of their country. They should learn about it.

Let's look at this another way. She's a minister of state. In many governments, ministers of state are not experts in their field.

Everybody in the U.K. should know about Northern Ireland because it is part of the U.K.

What difference does the GFA make to someone in London, Birmingham, Newcastle etc. None. You may aswell say they should know what happened to the EU ruling regarding Kohll vs "Union des Caisses de Maladie", as it was 28 years ago too.

It’s part of the reason why bombs stopped in those places. It’s an agreement reached in their state between hostile actors in that actual country they actually live in.

It should be part of the ciriculum. It’s extraordinary that it isn’t.


Even however if you accept that people in the U.K. shouldn’t know about the U.K. a minister shouldn’t prove this ignorance. Do British ambassadors routinely say they know nothing about the countries they are ambassadors to?

seamusk84

ELM327 wrote: »

The british people en masse don't care (or in some cases don't even know the major details) about the north.
I don't see why she is being laughed at for this.

Because she is the NI secretary. She is suppose to know this, it’s her job.

Gimme A Pound

The downplaying of this with "most British people haven't a clue about Northern Ireland" is kinda weird - and seems a bit forelock tugging. "Ah shur tis only Northern Ireland."

She isn't most British people, she is the Northern Ireland secretary! And it appears lacking in the most basic knowledge that required the most basic research (so talk of how complex the conflict's history is, is also irrelevant) that surely should have been completed for such a role seeing as it's... Northern Ireland secretary!

Some people would go against the grain of sense and logic for utterly anything in order to have an argument.

ELM327

I give up.
You just can't have a different opinion anymore. Because "Some people would go against the grain of sense and logic for utterly anything in order to have an argument"

indioblack

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But if she didnt know she was going to get the job?

I found it difficult to understand how a person could have a career in British politics and be advanced to a ministerial position, yet be unaware of some of the basic issues regarding the north. She wouldn't have to be well versed in the recent history.
It's probably not wise to start a job by stating that you know little or nothing about it. Especially if you're a government minister. And certainly if it's in Northern Ireland where any wrong phrase or action can be used against you.
It's no secret that people have long memories over there - for obvious reasons.
Who knows? She might be very good in her new role.
Until she's up to speed, it's probably best if she just smiles brightly and says nice things about the place.

Das Reich

I think the term "unionist" is a bit confusive as a person would think it is to describe people that want a united Ireland and not a union with the UK. "Separatist" would make more sense.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ELM327 wrote: »

I give up.
You just can't have a different opinion anymore. Because "Some people would go against the grain of sense and logic for utterly anything in order to have an argument"

You have basically lost the argument and cried off. Not that there was much of an argument, but if you are making the point that a british minister shouldn’t know about the part of the U.K. they are expected to administer then it’s probably you that is going against the grain of sense and logic.

What next, a Secretary of State for Scotland who doesn’t know that Scottish people are a historically different people and have a different language in some parts?

Capt'n Midnight

Das Reich wrote: »

I think the term "unionist" is a bit confusive as a person would think it is to describe people that want a united Ireland and not a union with the UK. "Separatist" would make more sense.

Yeah , I can see how that could be confusing for someone who was elected to the Parliament of The United Kingdom of Northern Ireland and Great Britain.




I calling Poe's law.

ELM327

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You have basically lost the argument and cried off. Not that there was much of an argument, but if you are making the point that a british minister shouldn’t know about the part of the U.K. they are expected to administer then it’s probably you that is going against the grain of sense and logic.

What next, a Secretary of State for Scotland who doesn’t know that Scottish people are a historically different people and have a different language in some parts?

Lost the argument?
Cried off?


LOL don't make me laugh.
You and your ilk remind me of this lovely phrase

You can't come in with your derogation and ridicule, and expect a reasoned debate. So I have met you in kind with return.

Das Reich

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yeah , I can see how that could be confusing for someone who was elected to the Parliament of The United Kingdom of Northern Ireland and Great Britain.




I calling Poe's law.

Yes I agree a person born and bred there should know, but for a foreigner it is a bit confusive.

Gimme A Pound

ELM327 wrote: »

I give up.
You just can't have a different opinion anymore. Because "Some people would go against the grain of sense and logic for utterly anything in order to have an argument"

Of course you can have a different opinion.

Yours (and others') is: it's no big deal that the Northern Ireland Secretary lacks extremely basic knowledge regarding Northern Ireland, because most British people, who aren't the N.I. Secretary haven't a clue about the situation there. Others are expressing the opinion that this is an absurd take.

steddyeddy

indioblack wrote: »

Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.

Sorry but starting a job as the secretary for Northern Ireland without knowing there are two trains of thought is negligence. It shows how little the Tory party care for the North.

Capt'n Midnight

Das Reich wrote: »

Yes I agree a person born and bred there should know, but for a foreigner it is a bit confusive.

One thing that keeps cropping up from the British politicians is surprise at just how up to speed their European colleagues were over Brexit. And Brexit isn't an issue any politician on the continent will loose sleep over because it's been delegated to the negotiators and the UK side is making a hames of it.

indioblack

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry but starting a job as the secretary for Northern Ireland without knowing there are two trains of thought is negligence. It shows how little the Tory party care for the North.

I think it's more a lack of interest.
I know people who have no connection to Ireland, no interest in the north - yet have managed to grasp the basic issues in it's recent history.
What I couldn't understand is how it's possible not to know.
It's right next door with a shared history - a well documented history.
What happens, [happened], in the north isn't unique or peculiar - it's not even particularly complicated.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ELM327 wrote: »

Lost the argument?
Cried off?


LOL don't make me laugh.
You and your ilk remind me of this lovely phrase

You can't come in with your derogation and ridicule, and expect a reasoned debate. So I have met you in kind with return.

Nope. You’ve cried off. You haven’t made any reasonable argument at all except to suggest it’s madness that a minister of the British crown knows exactly what the U.K. constitutes historically, demographically and politically.

And who is my ilk? I don’t believe in a United ireland, but I think that British people should know the history and geography of their own country. That’s all.

Your link didn’t work either.