Why do Charlie Haughey's family still own an island?

Odhinn

tayto lover wrote: »

Has anything actually changed from Haughey's day?

They deal in Euros, not punts.

gozunda

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Typical Irish begrudgery. Haughey is one of the finest Toiasigh this country has ever had. He done an awful lot and led this country through turbulent times. He always had time for the common people as well. I have a vivid memory of him chatting to my mam on the door step and helping her carry in the shopping.
I'll always be loyal to Charlie and his family.

Ah sure he was a great big man all right. Lovely piece about him here

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland

Skylinehead

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Sure there’s a lot of cultural cringe. However that’s no defense of haughey.

Dunno what FG, Garret Fitzgerald etc even have to do this thread. Just Fuaranach soapboxing as usual.

CrankyHaus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is going to annoy the usual suspects, so that will be a good sign. But there's a lot of truth in it. The Blueshirts must have been absolutely fúcking awful that Irish people chose Haughey and company over them. Or are we going to absolve Sir Garret and company from all blame here? Just what was Sir Garret doing when Thatcher was on the rampage with shoot-to-kill policies, collusion and the Hunger Strikes against the native Irish still living under the remnants of British colonial occupation? Vichy Ireland?

Perhaps if the Blueshirts ditched the John Unionist Bruton and Brian Hayes poppy-wearing. British Empire-apologist types - not to mention the Avril "The Famine was a shared experience between the British and Irish peoples" Doyle types - they might make themselves more electable for those of us who aren't going around with shame about being Irish? A profoundly anglocentric, intellectually conquered group with no sense of, or meas for, the Irish tradition. Cultural Cringe mentality everywhere. And that's the long and the short of why very, very many people would never vote for the Blueshirts.

In truth, FG has never been a catch-all party, nor has it wanted to be. It has always felt more comfortable having a niche on the right wing, knowing that the way our political system was set up it will inevitably get into power in a coalition when FF fúcks up enough. And they can bet the house on that.

Didn't Garrett the Good also get a six figure debt written off by Ansbacher and AIB when his old FG buddy Peter Sutherland was chairman there but only CJ got stick for debt write offs?

CJ was a kleptocrat but I agree that the Irish opposition from back then (as now) should take a hard look at themselves and ask how they couldn't offer a more appealing alternative: Labour as much as FG.

sjb25

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Typical Irish begrudgery. Haughey is one of the finest Toiasigh this country has ever had. He done an awful lot and led this country through turbulent times. He always had time for the common people as well. I have a vivid memory of him chatting to my mam on the door step and helping her carry in the shopping.


I'll always be loyal to Charlie and his family.

A lot of people say the same of this fella always helped the people

Nixonbot

Nixonbot wrote: »

Dunno what FG, Garret Fitzgerald etc even have to do this thread. Just Fuaranach soapboxing as usual.

Eh, let's see. Elections. Competition between... Fine Gael under Fitzgerald and... Fianna Fáil under Haughey... choice... people making choices... Haughey bad... Blueshirts bad... perhaps if Blueshirts were... good... fewer people would have voted for... Haughey?

SafeSurfer

steddyeddy wrote: »

Bravo for asking.

His family are living off criminal assets. I always wondered how they're not ashamed let alone allowed to remain in ownership of criminal assets.

No different to a drug dealer's wife living off his ill bought gains.

No. Haughey paid all outstanding interest and penalties from the gifts he received.

Even criminals can pay CAB and retain their assets.

SafeSurfer

gozunda wrote: »

Well that's your story. And btw you are never asked for "pay offs". The 'extra fees' are much more subtle than that trust me ...

I have been granted planning permission many times over the past twenty years in multiple counties. The pay offs and extra fees stuff is complete nonsense.

CrankyHaus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Didn't Garrett the Good also get a six figure debt written off by Ansbacher and AIB when his old FG buddy Peter Sutherland was chairman there but only CJ got stick for debt write offs?

CJ was a kleptocrat but I agree that the Irish opposition from back then (as now) should take a hard look at themselves and ask how they couldn't offer a more appealing alternative: Labour as much as FG.

He did. But when Fitzgerald did it it wasn't indicative of a "flawed pedigree" (to use Fitzgerald's typically pompous description of Haughey). There's absolutely no debate that Haughey was a first rate crook. But had, for instance, John Hume been leading an alternative party Haughey would not have been in power as much, if at all.

Ulysses Gaze

Pity the guy that danced on his grave didn't piss on it as well.

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He did. But when Fitzgerald did it it wasn't indicative of a "flawed pedigree" (to use Fitzgerald's typically pompous description of Haughey). There's absolutely no debate that Haughey was a first rate crook. But had, for instance, John Hume been leading an alternative party Haughey would not have been in power as much, if at all.

Haughey was the most able politician of his generation. He was clever, charismatic and cunning. Any leader of the opposition would have found it difficult in opposing him.

SafeSurfer

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Pity the guy that danced on his grave didn't piss on it as well.

Yes. That is the best way to deal with people who’s views you disagree with. Defile their and their loved ones resting places.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

Eh, let's see. Elections. Competition between... Fine Gael under Fitzgerald and... Fianna Fáil under Haughey... choice... people making choices... Haughey bad... Blueshirts bad... perhaps if Blueshirts were... good... fewer people would have voted for... Haughey?

You barely even mentioned Haughey in your post! Just FG this, Brits that, empire, anglocentric, Thatcher, blueshirts, cultural cringe.

Buzzword bingo

Pintman Paddy Losty

gozunda wrote: »

Ah sure he was a great big man all right. Lovely piece about him here

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland

I haven't time to read that article. Nothing will sway me anyway. I don't care if he took a bit extra for himself. He done great things for the people of ireland. Stood up to that c<nt thatcher too. He was a proper leader you could look up to.

Nixonbot

Nixonbot wrote: »

You barely even mentioned Haughey in your post! Just FG this, Brits that, empire, anglocentric, Thatcher, blueshirts, cultural cringe.

Buzzword bingo

Yes, indeed. They were solid reasons why very many people would have voted for Haughey over the niche/anglocentric/rightwing (I'm sure at this stage you can fill in the rest! hehe) party that is Fine Gael. They were also very serious reasons in the context of Thatcher being in power and the Hunger Strikes why Haughey, playing the Green Card, was returned to power.

Perhaps if the Blueshirts (or indeed their coalition party, Labour) had spoken out against even some of the things happening against nationalists in the North they could have won more support at election time and thereby kept Haughey out a bit more? FF under Haughey had the cop-on to do precisely that when it was clear that the electorate along the border was increasing its support for SF at the time. It became more 'green'; the Blueshirts had no interest in winning or keeping that vote and indeed the haughty pronunciations of leading Fine Gaelers just alienated more people. So this was absolutely a key factor in Haughey being returned to power.

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

his only crime was that he loved his country too much

hehe. Brilliant! We need to carve that into his gravestone tonight...

steddyeddy

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No. Haughey paid all outstanding interest and penalties from the gifts he received.

Even criminals can pay CAB and retain their assets.

From all gifts he received? You can't seriously think he declared all gifts?

Ulysses Gaze

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yes. That is the best way to deal with people who’s views you disagree with. Defile their and their loved ones resting places.

More than disagreeing with peoples views.

The man was a corrupt con artist and a thief whose family live in luxury thanks to his pilfering from the states coffers. And from his "best friends" health fund.

**** him.

Titzon Toast

He was a clever fooker, but he was as bent as a fiddler's elbow.
Most of the politicians from that era were.
We'll never know how different this country could have been if we'd have had some honest people running things for us.

SafeSurfer

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

More than disagreeing with peoples views.

The man was a corrupt con artist and a thief whose family live in luxury thanks to his pilfering from the states coffers. And from his "best friends" health fund.

**** him.

I think it would be fair to assume that your achievements pale in significance to those of Haughey. Not.

SafeSurfer

steddyeddy wrote: »

From all gifts he received? You can't seriously think he declared all gifts?

There are only of a handful of citizens of this state whose financial affairs have been investigated in such detail as Haughey so yes, I believe all taxes he owed were paid in full.

gozunda

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I have been granted planning permission many times over the past twenty years in multiple counties. The pay offs and extra fees stuff is complete nonsense.

Said nothing about 'pay-offs' btw

What coco did you say you were working for :pac:

Anyways I would beg to differ from your stated opinion on same ...

gozunda

SafeSurfer wrote: »

There are only of a handful of citizens of this state whose financial affairs have been investigated in such detail as Haughey so yes, I believe all taxes he owed were paid in full.

Is that yourself Charlie?

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/former-taoiseachs-son-slams-charlie-tv-drama-30927960.html

Ulysses Gaze

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think it would be fair to assume that your achievements pale in significance to those of Haughey. Not.

Robbing money from my best friends health fund is not something I have done. Nor will I ever do.

The Corrupt Haughey was a crook.

Odhinn

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, indeed.
(.............)to power.

"Black 47" is worth a goo.

Church on Tuesday

Because it's Ireland and we have a tendency to let morally bankrupt politicians off the hook here.

But if the family own the island, there's not a whole lot you can do.

dxhound2005

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Because it's Ireland and we have a tendency to let morally bankrupt politicians off the hook here.

But if the family own the island, there's not a whole lot you can do.

We could invade it under cover of darkness and occupy it. There would be plenty of volunteers from the groups who did that with property in Dublin.

DEFTLEFTHAND

He reminds a lot of Gizmo. A fella from Gortnaguna.

Buford T. Justice XIX

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We could invade it under cover of darkness and occupy it. There would be plenty of volunteers from the groups who did that with property in Dublin.

Doubtful.

No WiFi there.

whisky_galore

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Pity the guy that danced on his grave didn't piss on it as well.

Fwiw it's the most pissed upon grave in the country.

Only a few deluded souls and the population of Dingle think he's great.

Irish Kings

Never thought I'd say it, but compared to what came after him, and what we have now, i'd take CJ anyday

dxhound2005

Irish Kings wrote: »

Never thought I'd say it, but compared to what came after him, and what we have now, i'd take CJ anyday

He only got the job because of who he married.

Ulysses Gaze

Irish Kings wrote: »

Never thought I'd say it, but compared to what came after him, and what we have now, i'd take CJ anyday

Then you are deluded.

The Corrupt Haughey, like his protege Ahern, brought the country to the brink of bankruptcy.

Irish Kings

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Then you are deluded.

No just too aware for my own good.

Gimme A Pound

What's with the cognitive dissonance in relation to a greedy crook who screwed people over? It's not ok in some circumstances but is in others?

The best bit is from the person who complains about greed/consumerism yet ok with Haughey because he wasn't a blueshirt (FG weren't a bunch of 1930s fascists in the 80s either) and he had republican sympathies.

SafeSurfer

Toby Round Violin wrote: »

What's with the cognitive dissonance in relation to a greedy crook who screwed people over? It's not ok in some circumstances but is in others?

The best bit is from the person who complains about greed/consumerism yet ok with Haughey because he wasn't a blueshirt (FG weren't a bunch of 1930s fascists in the 80s either) and he had republican sympathies.

Fascist Fine Gael TDs we’re still being elected well into the 1980s. One only has to look at one of the country’s longest serving TDs and father of the current Fine Gael minister for justice who continued to be elected until 1987. Both a blueshirt and fascist and elected Fine Gael TD up to 1987.

SafeSurfer

“How is it that we do not see any of these Acts directed against the Jews, who crucified Our Saviour nineteen hundred years ago, and who are crucifying us every day in the week? How is it that we do not see them directed against the Masonic Order? How is it that the I.R.A. is considered an illegal organisation while the Masonic Order is not considered an illegal organisation? [...] There is one thing that Germany did, and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is the honey, and where the Jews are there is the money.”


Oliver J Flanagan Fine Gael TD

This is the calibre of the Fine Gael TDs who opposed Haughey in the 1980s.

steddyeddy

SafeSurfer wrote: »

There are only of a handful of citizens of this state whose financial affairs have been investigated in such detail as Haughey so yes, I believe all taxes he owed were paid in full.

I've read more sensible posts in flat earth threads.

Jimmy.

Haughey had a big dildo for sure and didn’t spare it.

padd b1975

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Have often thought the same myself, and I mentioned it in a previous post re CAB.

But the children don't seem to be too bothered.

Those mustaches and helicopters won't pay for themselves you know.

WoollyRedHat

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think it would be fair to assume that your achievements pale in significance to those of Haughey. Not.

Haha go do one will you.

blueser

dxhound2005 wrote: »

He only got the job because of who he married.

Never had Charlie down as a priest.



"TAXI!!!!"

dxhound2005

blueser wrote: »

Never had Charlie down as a priest.



"TAXI!!!!"

His father was a priest.

BENDYBINN

Irish Kings wrote: »

Never thought I'd say it, but compared to what came after him, and what we have now, i'd take CJ anyday

Charlie bought a few fancy shirts and he’s a gangster, Michael D stays in 4000
a night hotel rooms and not a word.....banana republic indeed!

dxhound2005

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Charlie bought a few fancy shirts and he’s a gangster, Michael D stays in 4000
a night hotel rooms and not a word.....banana republic indeed!

What made him a gangster is that he bought very big shirts so as he did not have to tighten his belt.

blueser

dxhound2005 wrote: »

His father was a priest.

The apple didn't fall too far from the tree then, eh?

BENDYBINN

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Charlie bought a few fancy shirts and he’s a gangster, Michael D stays in 4000
a night hotel rooms and not a word.....banana republic indeed!

Did Michael D stay in 4000 a night room or in a hotel that had rooms that cost 4000 a night?

WoollyRedHat

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Charlie bought a few fancy shirts and he’s a gangster, Michael D stays in 4000
a night hotel rooms and not a word.....banana republic indeed!

Oh come on it’s more than just the shirts, stop being willfully ignorant.

I suppose you think poor Bertie was hounded out of office because he had no bank account.

BENDYBINN

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Oh come on it’s more than just the shirts, stop being willfully ignorant.

I suppose you think poor Bertie was hounded out of office because he had no bank account.

Bertie forced us all to queue for 3days so we could get our hands on phase 3 of the meadows!
Big bad Bertie..sure he ruined the country.

BENDYBINN

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Bertie forced us all to queue for 3days so we could get our hands on phase 3 of the meadows!
Big bad Bertie..sure he ruined the country.

Yes, he really upset the apple tart.