People with Faith

FixdePitchmark

Watching a show with a christian minster doing incredible work in a Scottish prison.

He is doing incredible work.

But in the 21st century - i'm asking a question - has anyone that supports religion or is trapped in the christian life - got a mental illness ?

per aspera ad astra

This roast has been reheated.

Junkyard Tom

DEFTLEFTHAND

I went to see Pope Francis say Mass and the people there were lovely gentle folk.

When Peace Be With You in the Mass came around every man, woman and child in my section shook hands.


It was so lovely.


It's not a mental ilness. Our society was formed through the Judeo Christian culture.

pgj2015

more low IQ than mental illness i think.

DivingDuck

Not low IQ, and not mental illness, just an external locus of— Something. Fulfillment, maybe? A need to believe in something greater than just them and their fellow man.

Religion has powered some of the worst horrors in human history, but it has potential for beauty and good, too.

(I say this as an agnostic who is generally pretty anti-religion, but I do know several intelligent, decent people who are religious. As long as their religion doesn't promote hatred or the curtailment of the rights of others, I might not feel a need for it, but I can respect it.)

RobbingBandit

Prayer the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Fighting Tao

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Prayer the last refuge of the scoundrel.

A robbing bandit would certainly know that.

bilbot79

One shouldn't have to outsource ones moral values just to behave appropriately in life.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village.


This is where a lot of the money goes too. RCC are the biggest charity in the world.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

evolving_doors

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village.


This is where a lot of the money goes too. RCC are the biggest charity in the world.

Charity takes up a lot of the slack in Ireland which the govt should be providing (esp in healthcare). And as a nation we cough up a lot for charity.
How about divert it into higher taxes and abolish charities!

I don't really buy the whole RCC being a big giver though... all their money came from the public in the first place. It has smatterings of 'taking the soup' about it. Sure there are great people involved who would lay down their life for you, but does it have to hinge on God?
Scientology are now doing great charity work too.

Fighting Tao

evolving_doors wrote: »

Charity takes up a lot of the slack in Ireland which the govt should be providing (esp in healthcare). And as a nation we cough up a lot for charity.
How about divert it into higher taxes and abolish charities!

I don't really buy the whole RCC being a big giver though... all their money came from the public in the first place. It has smatterings of 'taking the soup' about it. Sure there are great people involved who would lay down their life for you, but does it have to hinge on God?
Scientology are now doing great charity work too.

Historically the RCC money came from people who’s belief blinded them into the guilt and shame priests and bishops put upon them if they didn’t donate to the upkeep of the incalculable wealthy organisation. People were buying their way out of hell. Handing over more than they could afford in order to have a happy afterlife. There is the saying that a fool and their money are easily parted.

If the RCC was really good they would have kept their vow of poverty and not have built up trillions in gold, art and property.

While I don’t understand why they need to believe, let people believe in a god if they wish but they don’t need the RCC to do so.

gctest50

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village. ......

In 1991, Adi Roche founded the Chernobyl Children International, to provide aid to the children of Belarus, Western Russia and Ukraine. The organisation is an international development, medical, and humanitarian one that works with children and families who continue to be affected by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster of 1986.[3]

Under Roche's leadership, Chernobyl Children International (CCI) has delivered over €105 million to the areas most affected by the Chernobyl nuclear disaster and has enabled over 25,500 children affected by the Chernobyl disaster to come to Ireland for vital medical treatment and recuperation.


CCI’s ‘Homes of Hope’ programme provides the alternative to state institutions via 30 homes that have been purchased and renovated, this is the equivalent of closing two orphanages in Belarus. It takes children out of orphanages, and places them in loving homes of their own.

CCI has built and equipped the first ever baby hospice in Belarus. CCI has provided expert training to the staff to ensure the best care to patients. CCI pioneered the ground breaking adoption agreement between Ireland and Belarus, on behalf of the Government of Ireland. This agreement allowed hundreds of children to be adopted into Ireland.

Mental health and disability development: Since 1986 there has been a marked increase in children being born with mental and physical disabilities.[citation needed] CCI has pioneered the Human Rights of people incarcerated in institutional care. This is at the very heart of the CCI mission.

3,950 of life-saving cardiac surgeries performed and enabled over the last fifteen years in collaboration with Dr. William Novick of Novick Cardiac Alliance.

uck51js9zml2yt

Just soon clear....this thread isn't about "people of faith". Its another opportunity to bash the RCC. For the record, I'm not RC.But equally, I'm not blind!

gctest50

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.

.........

Being a nun, would she have set up sex/health education for the older ones and taught them about contraception/condoms ?

Yamanoto

gctest50 wrote: »

In 1991, Adi Roche founded the Chernobyl Children International, to provide aid to the children of Belarus, Western Russia and Ukraine. The organisation is an internationa........

Wikipedia appears to have hijacked your account.

Can this society ever evolve to the stage where the rampant, all-pervasive cult of consumerism that brainwashes people into believing they need all sorts of shíte and is incessantly pushing agendas and views upon us is seen as far more dangerous and threatening to individualism than the has-been power of the now hugely discredited Roman Church?

Turn on your radio or tv today, or open a newspaper and compare all that brainwashing to what the RCC is imposing upon you today. No comparison at all. It's not 1970. Change the record and man-up to the new threat to our individualism and democracies.

_Brian

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Watching a show with a christian minster doing incredible work in a Scottish prison.

He is doing incredible work.

But in the 21st century - i'm asking a question - has anyone that supports religion or is trapped in the christian life - got a mental illness ?

The human mind has a compulsion to put order and reasons in place for everything that happens and has happened, it’s there entrained in our subconscious; organised religion offers a perfect vehicle to do this for us and then there’s the pack mentality aspect too, if so many others believe too it makes us feel we are right.

It also offers great support to people in times of need, people who are sick and diying find great comfort in faith, I’ve seen it first hand myself.

Heck, I’m not a religious person but was raised RC. Still, Wien I was sitting in a consultants office earlier this year getting results of biopsies I was pleading with some sort of a god that it wouldn’t be cancer.

gctest50

Yamanoto wrote: »

Wikipedia appears to have hijacked your account.

It's not worth the effort when dealing with sky fairy fans

Although it's good in a way, when the sh!t does hit the fan, they'll run off and start praying

Then you can get on with salvaging the situation - if they come back you can tell them their prayers are working and they need to go away again and say some more



.

Shenshen

I don't think it's anything to do with mental health, or with intelligence. Although you can find all extremes amongst the religious as well

I do think that some people have a personality make-up that somehow makes them discontent with "only" the wonders and miracles the natural world has to offer. There is a craving for "something more", they'd sometimes refer to it as a "bigger meaning". And as with all human cravings, they seek to find fulfillment. Some will turn to religion, some will try and get into contact with aliens, others will attempt taking photos of ghosts. Some will seek that meaning by glorifying the country or skincolour they were born into, some will choose extreme nostalgia.
What they all tend to do, though, is find others who made the same choice. So I suspect part of the craving is a craving to belong to a group.

At the less extreme ends of this, finding or even just searching for their meaning appears to give them a feeling of contentment, a sense of inner balance perhaps.
At the extremes, they can easily become dangerous, particularly to people who do not belong to the same group.

nice_guy80

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village.


This is where a lot of the money goes too. RCC are the biggest charity in the world.

why weren't the ugandans teaching themselves?
missionaries are there to convert children. they are a recruitment tool

as the largest charity they sure do lavish wealth and ceremony on their CEO

TCM

pgj2015 wrote:

more low IQ than mental illness i think.

Why do you find it necessary to insult. Perhaps you have your own mental health issues.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Can this society ever evolve to the stage where the rampant, all-pervasive cult of consumerism that brainwashes people into believing they need all sorts of sh and is incessantly pushing agendas and views upon us is seen as far more dangerous and threatening to individualism than the has-been power of the now hugely discredited Roman Church?

A rampant, all-pervasive cult that brainwashes people into believing they need all sorts of shite and is incessantly pushing agendas and views upon us?

That sounds exactly like the RCC, your post must be satire, right?

_Brian

I used to think that people being Atheist meant they had no religion, but it is abundantly clear that it means they are vehemently and outspoken anti religion, almost to the stage where it’s become a religion itself.

bucketybuck

As an aside, I do find one thing very strange.

Organised religion is one thing, actual belief in gods is another. I can understand why people would find comfort in the rituals and framework of something like the RCC, and I can understand why some people want to believe in a "higher power" or that something greater is out there.

But I know a lot of very smart people who are objective and analytical in their every day lives, but who also will admit that they believe that the God of the bible actually exists. That this super powered sky master that nobody has ever seen does indeed exist and is up there right now watching us all.

Finding comfort in faith, I get it. But how can people look at reality as it is in this world and in 2018 still believe that there is a god in the sky?

robbiezero

bucketybuck wrote: »

A rampant, all-pervasive cult that brainwashes people into believing they need all sorts of shite and is incessantly pushing agendas and views upon us?

That sounds exactly like the RCC, your post must be satire, right?

Will you lot make up your minds. A month ago ye were crowing that so few in the country had any interest in it anymore. Now its rampant, all-pervasive.

I have no interest in the RC whatsoever, but tired of the bashing of it in every thread. It was brave and edgy 20 years ago.

robbiezero

bucketybuck wrote: »

As an aside, I do find one thing very strange.

Organised religion is one thing, actual belief in gods is another. I can understand why people would find comfort in the rituals and framework of something like the RCC, and I can understand why some people want to believe in a "higher power" or that something greater is out there.

But I know a lot of very smart people who are objective and analytical in their every day lives, but who also will admit that they believe that the God of the bible actually exists. That this super powered sky master that nobody has ever seen does indeed exist and is up there right now watching us all.

Finding comfort in faith, I get it. But how can people look at reality as it is in this world and in 2018 still believe that there is a god in the sky?

I can understand why people might believe in a higher power, there is so much we don't know and will never know. I don't understand why people would believe in the God of the Bible, or the lad the likes people to sit for an hour on a Sunday morning and chant nonsense about how glorious he/she is.

RobbingBandit

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Prayer the last refuge of the scoundrel.

and music is the brandy of the damned

GarIT

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village.


This is where a lot of the money goes too. RCC are the biggest charity in the world.

Most of the things they did we're to convert people anyway. The education and healthcare they offer in Africa comes with the requirement of attending church. If you were in extreme poverty in a place with rampant disese, a short life expectancy and no healthcare you could afford but you could get free health insurance by listening to a man in a dress tell fairy tales and all you have to say is you believe him and then you're allowed into the members only free hospital I'm sure you'd sign right up. Same goes for if your child was destined to pick fruit for €0.05 per hour for their whole lives, or you can do the same as above and spend an hour in a church for the weekend and then you child can get educated and experience the American dream you heard about of course you'd go to church.

Your water tank example, oh you don't want to walk an 8km round trip for dirty water, just spash some water on your forehead from this baptismal font and then you can have all the clean water you need from our tank right here.

The RCC don't do charity, they do recruitment by offering poor people the things they need to survive on condition of joining.

For two Christmases I filled shoeboxes with toys and basic supplies to send to Africa for Christmas, shorty after I was sent a video of the shoeboxes being given to the children when the missionaries arrived they announced "these are gifts from Jesus" and it also showed them adding RCC propaganda to the boxes during the "safety check". I of course never donated to them again.

Biggest chartiy in what regard? Donations received? Most offices? Most members? Highest current asset value? Could be all or any of those but definitely not by %of money that goes to actual charatible causes.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

A rampant, all-pervasive cult that brainwashes people into believing they need all sorts of shite and is incessantly pushing agendas and views upon us?

That sounds exactly like the RCC, your post must be satire, right?

Unsurprisingly, you're not getting a very basic point: in terms of the RCC's brainwashing ability in Ireland it's not 1970, it's 2018. Unless you're living in some extraordinary fantasy world, in 2018 the RCC is a very, very pale shadow of its former brainwashing power in Ireland. The media and the consumerist fundamentalism it pushes non-stop across society, on the other hand, is an incomparably greater force for brainwashing in Ireland today, one full of cliques and "elites" which undermines both individualism and democracy here. Yet some people just go on and on as if the power of the RCC is as much as it was 40 years ago. Why the wilful avoidance of reality in 2018?

As has been said here often being "atheist" (or, rather, socialist republican as they self-described at the time) was edgy in 1930, or 1950 or even when poor Eileen Flynn was sacked as a teacher in 1982 for having an affair with a married man. It took genuine courage then to be the James Connollys, Jim Graltons and Peadar O'Donnells of Irish society and face the RCC mob. Now the mob senses power has gone from the RCC so it has turned against it. Same mob mentality, different flag of convenience. So, well done on your "courage" today.

GarIT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, you're not getting a very basic point: in terms of the RCC's brainwashing ability in Ireland it's not 1970, it's 2018. Unless you're living in some extraordinary fantasy world, in 2018 the RCC is a very, very pale shadow of its former brainwashing power in Ireland. The media and the consumerist fundamentalism it pushes non-stop across society, on the other hand, is an incomparably greater force for brainwashing in Ireland today, one full of cliques and "elites" which undermines both individualism and democracy here. Yet some people just go on and on as if the power of the RCC is as much as it was 40 years ago. Why the wilful avoidance of reality in 2018?

You are correct but they still get an hour a day with our children. Even the religion classes that claim to teach about all religions are often thinly veilled classes on why Christianity is the best religion.

The get to set the ethos, or moral code our children are required to live by for 7 hours a day.

They might have lost their power in society as a whole but they still have their stranglehold over education.

RiderOnTheStorm

Dont confuse faith in a higher power with organised religion.

Gimme A Pound

Being a missionary in Uganda for 25 years is a heck of a sacrifice, whatever you think of the church.

DivingDuck

DivingDuck wrote: »

Not low IQ, and not mental illness, just an external locus of— Something. Fulfillment, maybe? A need to believe in something greater than just them and their fellow man.

Yes... but we see the same behavior represented in other systems. Political systems like Communism, Fascism, or extreme democracy generates the same need for an external focus usually represented by a more charismatic figure, with almost deity like abilities due to social programming. You could easily put Hitler, Stalin, etc up there with Jesus for some of the adoration that they generated in other people. Same with cult leaders who, may or may not have linked themselves to a religious faith or something else. That need to believe in something hooks people in.

This need for something greater is common enough. You could easily point to science as another focus point for that need to believe that there are explainable laws for the universe, and while Science has progressed considerably over the last century, a hell of a lot was based on theories that have since been "proven" otherwise. Same with Medicine, which in spite of its claims, is still very much a shot in the dark for many treatments, and yet, people believe in it as an absolute.

Belief in something greater is not something solely under the purview of religion.

Religion has powered some of the worst horrors in human history, but it has potential for beauty and good, too.

Sure it has. But then so too has Politics, cultural identity, Nationalism, etc.

(I say this as an agnostic who is generally pretty anti-religion, but I do know several intelligent, decent people who are religious. As long as their religion doesn't promote hatred or the curtailment of the rights of others, I might not feel a need for it, but I can respect it.)

I'm also agnostic. I believe in the possibility of God, but I dislike religion. A human construct to control other humans. Religion is a political system with abuses in power across the field of human history. I respect other peoples belief in such a system, just as I respect peoples belief in FG, FF, or Trump.

Brooklynn Polite Hammer

Brooklynn Polite Hammer wrote: »

Being a missionary in Uganda for 25 years is a heck of a sacrifice, whatever you think of the church.

One of the gay lobbyists made a brilliant point in a very brief interview on RTÉ tv very shortly before the papal visit a couple of weeks ago and it was this: with all our media, investigations and technology we are only now discovering the evil perpetrated by members of the RCC in this society - can you imagine what has been perpetrated by members of the same church on poorer foreign societies which do not have all these things?

A genuinely shuddering thought. Having said that, it must be awful being one of the many good, genuine people.

o1s1n

_Brian wrote: »

I used to think that people being Atheist meant they had no religion, but it is abundantly clear that it means they are vehemently and outspoken anti religion, almost to the stage where it’s become a religion itself.

Yes because all atheists are one homogeneous group.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

You are correct but they still get an hour a day with our children. Even the religion classes that claim to teach about all religions are often thinly veilled classes on why Christianity is the best religion.

The get to set the ethos, or moral code our children are required to live by for 7 hours a day.

They might have lost their power in society as a whole but they still have their stranglehold over education.

No, they don't. Stranglehold? Really? Come on. Drop the emotional declarations.

If they had that much control, women wouldn't be attending University, and their role in society would be simply to produce/raise babies.

The Catholic Church still has a presence in our educational system due to our history with them, and their influence is fast eroding in most cases.

I can't believe nobody asked who Faith is and why people are with her

tfitzgerald

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

Just soon clear....this thread isn't about "people of faith". Its another opportunity to bash the RCC. For the record, I'm not RC.But equally, I'm not blind!

I agree another chance to bash the church

TheValeyard

bluewolf wrote: »

I can't believe nobody asked who Faith is and why people are with her

I believe she was another rogue Slayer who turned good in the end.

Knex*

bluewolf wrote: »

I can't believe nobody asked who Faith is and why people are with her

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

I believe she was another rogue Slayer who turned good in the end.

Not to be confused with, "Where's Faith?", the topical children's puzzle book that puts the fun back into finding the Holy Spirit.

suicide_circus

some of us were raised to have faith in the EU institutions

whisky_galore

Brooklynn Polite Hammer wrote: »

Being a missionary in Uganda for 25 years is a heck of a sacrifice, whatever you think of the church.

It's Souperism in a warm climate.

feargale

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But in the 21st century - i'm asking a question - has anyone that supports religion or is trapped in the christian life - got a mental illness ?

No. They just hold an opinion that differs from yours. Time was when diversity of thought was acceptable, i.e. from the advent of the Enlightenment until the arrival of the internet.
In the asylum the sane person is deemed mad by the lunatics.

AllForIt

_Brian wrote: »

I used to think that people being Atheist meant they had no religion, but it is abundantly clear that it means they are vehemently and outspoken anti religion, almost to the stage where it’s become a religion itself.

Seems like a reasonable position to take to me. I mean if one is a Fine Gale man then one is hardly going to pro Fianna Fail at the same time.

bucketybuck

robbiezero wrote: »

Will you lot make up your minds. A month ago ye were crowing that so few in the country had any interest in it anymore. Now its rampant, all-pervasive.

I have no interest in the RC whatsoever, but tired of the bashing of it in every thread. It was brave and edgy 20 years ago.

Try again. This time read the post that I quoted and was responding to.

Zebra3

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The thing which kind of twists is that nobody ever speaks about all the good the RCC has down here and across the globe.

I'd a Gran Aunt Nun who spent 25 yrs of her life school teaching in Uganda.


These are people who gave their lives to the work. She told me one time that the Church in Roscrea funded the new water tank in her village.


This is where a lot of the money goes too. RCC are the biggest charity in the world.

Ditto Jimmy Savile.

The RC Church has spent too much of its’ time protecting rapists, war criminals and laundeing money for the mafia.

So nobody really cares about the good it does. Sure won’t they be rewarded in heaven after all?

SeanW

evolving_doors wrote: »

Charity takes up a lot of the slack in Ireland which the govt should be providing (esp in healthcare). And as a nation we cough up a lot for charity.
How about divert it into higher taxes and abolish charities!

[sarcasm]
Yes! Let's give all our money to to the government! They do so much better work than private charity. Government is never corrupt or incompetent, government operations could never be dysfunctional ever, sure. You'd never see waste or fraud ... I'm sure ...
[/sarcasm]

Scientology are now doing great charity work too.

I doubt that.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Watching a show with a christian minster doing incredible work in a Scottish prison.

He is doing incredible work.

But in the 21st century - i'm asking a question - has anyone that supports religion or is trapped in the christian life - got a mental illness ?

pgj2015 wrote: »

more low IQ than mental illness i think.

How about Islam? Does belief in that make someone "low IQ" or "mentally ill"? or just Christianity?

valoren

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

Giraffe Box

Deleted User wrote: »

and music is the brandy of the damned

..and they drink it Neat Neat Neat.









...sorry, I'll get my coat