People with Faith

RobbingBandit

Fighting Tao wrote: »

A robbing bandit would certainly know that.

Seems like we have a joker, wanna fight about it.

Gimme A Pound

_Brian wrote: »

I used to think that people being Atheist meant they had no religion, but it is abundantly clear that it means they are vehemently and outspoken anti religion, almost to the stage where it’s become a religion itself.

But obviously plenty of atheists fall into the first category too (like me). Where's the evidence that all atheists = the second one?

Fighting Tao

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Seems like we have a joker, wanna fight about it.

Only if you are Tao.

SEPT 23 1989

Prayer is a form of meditation

I find that that the true believers took the hard road to get there

No problem with it once it's not pushed on anyone

Sycamore Tree

For the record, the Roman church should never be immune to bashing. They were untouchable for long enough and became an abomination.

Sycamore Tree

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

For the record, the Roman church should never be immune to bashing. They were untouchable for long enough and became an abomination.

I doubt anyone is suggesting that they should be immune to criticism. All religions should be. And the C Church has been on the receiving end of humor, and accusations going back decades. It's not as if their 'immunity' was lifted recently.

Just think "The life of Brian". Think you could do the "life of Mohammad" in the same manner? For all the criticism against the C Church, it's taken a lot of digs over the years.

Junkyard Tom

These days people have too much faith in science.

Fighting Tao

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

These days people have too much faith in science.

It was so much better when people had a heart attack and a prayer was said in an attempt to save their lives. It’s awful nowadays that a tiny hole is made in the artery at the wrist and surgery is performed through it where stents inserted and pushed into the heart to save lives rather than saying prayers and hoping for the best.

Science is truly awful compared to faith.

uck51js9zml2yt

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It was so much better when people had a heart attack and a prayer was said in an attempt to save their lives. It’s awful nowadays that a tiny hole is made in the artery at the wrist and surgery is performed through it where stents inserted and pushed into the heart to save lives rather than saying prayers and hoping for the best.

Science is truly awful compared to faith.

People here talking about others who have faith in God is no different to people talking about people who've had heart surgery who've never experienced it.

A lot of theory and none of the experience. Tell me what it's like to have a mechanical valve ticking away inside you and I'll tell you about faith ( and a mechanical valve ticking inside me)

Fighting Tao

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

People here talking about others who have faith in God is no different to people talking about people who've had heart surgery who've never experienced it.

A lot of theory and none of the experience. Tell me what it's like to have a mechanical valve ticking away inside you and I'll tell you about faith ( and a mechanical valve ticking inside me)

Ah so you have to be one of the unlucky few to experience god. Good to know. Thankfully I am lucky and have no void to fill.

As for science...we all experience it every day.

uck51js9zml2yt

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Ah so you have to be one of the unlucky few to experience god. Good to know. Thankfully I am lucky and have no void to fill.

As for science...we all experience it every day.

We all have a" void to fill ". We just fill it with other stuff when God doesn't fill it.

Btw..what's this rubbish about science OR God. I've no problems with both.

Wanderer2010

Theres nothing wrong with having faith if it improves your life and makes your grateful for the life you have. Prayer can be a powerful thing and to dismiss people who have faith as having a mental illness is nothing short of trolling. If you don't agree with God, religion etc fine but don't try and put people down for their innermost beliefs. In the same vein, if people are atheist or don't believe in life after death then I respect their beliefs.

Fighting Tao

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

We all have a" void to fill ". We just fill it with other stuff when God doesn't fill it.

Btw..what's this rubbish about science OR God. I've no problems with both.

You are wrong. We don't all have a void to fill. Maybe those who are religious need to believe that everyone has a void. I don't know. All I can say is that it's not true.

I didn't raise the science thing. Ask the original poster.

Canis Lupus

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

We all have a" void to fill ". We just fill it with other stuff when God doesn't fill it.

Btw..what's this rubbish about science OR God. I've no problems with both.

Your god can't be all that hot if earthly things are good enough to fill my atheist void.

jjpep

Tbh I just feel embarrassed for people when they say that they believe in god or the supernatural. You're meant to be an adult yet profess to believe in is basically Santa. I'll always try to be polite in social situations but i just cringe when the topic comes up.

uck51js9zml2yt

jjpep wrote: »

Tbh I just feel embarrassed for people when they say that they believe in god or the supernatural. You're meant to be an adult yet profess to believe in is basically Santa. I'll always try to be polite in social situations but i just cringe when the topic comes up.

I think the fact that you feel the need to be embarrassed for someone else says more about you than the other person.

FixdePitchmark

By the way I wasn't looking at any religion in particular.

Like to expand - anyone who is a follower of Scientology - has to have a form of mental illness. It is a disorder of thinking ?

Fighting Tao

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It was so much better when people had a heart attack and a prayer was said in an attempt to save their lives. It’s awful nowadays that a tiny hole is made in the artery at the wrist and surgery is performed through it where stents inserted and pushed into the heart to save lives rather than saying prayers and hoping for the best.

Science is truly awful compared to faith.

Or when science/Psychology would drill a hole in the back of a persons head to deal with the mental issues? It's not really that long ago in various places. Science is apparently allowed to evolve and it's mistakes passed off as part of the process. Awfully convenient that. And even if we consider, Heart attack treatment, most treatment came about in the last 100 years... there's been a rather long period of science/medicine where treatments varied widely in both understanding, and form.

You and I can go around in circles pointing out the barbarity or ignorance with "assumed" expertise of both science and religion.... The really funny thing is that I don't even like religion.. but I also don't like the silly logic.

Science relies a lot on faith. Believing that this "expert''s opinions are justified. You take faith in their intelligence, their research methods (which most of us never check or understand ourselves), and that it actually works for the reasons described.... but there's a ton of assuming involved.

screamer

I wonder if other faiths than RC were being debated would everyone be so openly critical.....methinks not.
Faith is a personal thing and it's up to each person individually, not something to ram down non believers throats and not to belittle and sneer at those who do.
Yet that is what all these threads turn into.

o1s1n

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

These days people have too much faith in science.

..says no man about to go under the knife.

Fighting Tao

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or when science/Psychology would drill a hole in the back of a persons head to deal with the mental issues? It's not really that long ago in various places. Science is apparently allowed to evolve and it's mistakes passed off as part of the process. Awfully convenient that. And even if we consider, Heart attack treatment, most treatment came about in the last 100 years... there's been a rather long period of science/medicine where treatments varied widely in both understanding, and form.

You and I can go around in circles pointing out the barbarity or ignorance with "assumed" expertise of both science and religion.... The really funny thing is that I don't even like religion.. but I also don't like the silly logic.

Science relies a lot on faith. Believing that this "expert''s opinions are justified. You take faith in their intelligence, their research methods (which most of us never check or understand ourselves), and that it actually works for the reasons described.... but there's a ton of assuming involved.

So what has religion learned and changed as a result of the learning?

Shenshen

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

We all have a" void to fill ". We just fill it with other stuff when God doesn't fill it.

Btw..what's this rubbish about science OR God. I've no problems with both.

See, that's an assumption that doesn't convince me.

I grew up in a religious society (not Ireland, but Catholic nonetheless). I went to a Catholic school, complete with nuns. For most of my childhood and teenage years, I wanted to be religious. That was what was around me, that was what I had been told was normal, healthy, good. But I really struggled. Not because it was the wrong religion, or I had (at that time) any philosophical or ethical problems with it. Not because I had questions and doubts.
It was because I had no void to fill. I struggled to create a void that religion, faith, god then could fill up again.

It took me to my mid-twenties to realise that maybe there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe not everyone has that need, that void.

Drumpot

Whatever about the merits of believing in a higher power I fundamentally disagree with anybody who thinks religion causes wars and atrocities....

People cause wars and atrocities in the name of everything. Every bad thing that you can name comes down to people corrupting, abusing or using something to get what they want. Generally the abuse being ignored by an institution or organization leads to people thinking that getting rid of that entity somehow solves the problem but it doesn’t.

Blaming religion is a way of people absolving the human race of its responsibilities for its actions. It’s ironic when you think about it. Without humans a lot of basic religion teachings is ok, community driven and about generally not being a dick.

There are a lot of good things that can be taken and kept from religion. But some people want anything religious wiped from the earth.I think That a lot of people can’t or won’t consider the negative unintended consequences of the full abolishion of religion or Catholicism, particularly if it happens as quickly as it’s looking.

I think that can stem from the self absorbed instinct of people. “Well I’m ok if religion goes so everybody else will be grand”. No atheists in foxholes. Why is that? Why do some people desperately Want to believe? You take that away from them why do you presume it’s a simple case of just letting it sort itself out? Like brexit and Trump, everybody presumes that people won’t regress or turn to something even worse... History is littered with humanity making the same mistakes or worse!!!

In an era when people are feeling more isolated and disconnected from others I can see the decimation of the community element of religion causing even wider issues. A common connection, like religion , is healthy in the right circumstances...

I see a lot of posts here from people lacking the insight or foresight to review this topic on a level footing. Unfortunately it’s a symptom of the the way we as humans address things that need to corrected. We work off pure emotion and don’t really have the capacity to stand back, reflect and objectively analysis it from all angles....

AudreyHepburn

I would be a person of faith and always have been though like many I have struggled with it over the last number of years with all the scandals. I was at the Pope’s Mass too and it gave me sense of peace as regards my faith which I haven’t felt in a long time.

I am not and never been mentally ill nor do I have a low IQ. I can’t really say why I believe other than the idea that there’s nothing after death doesn’t sit right with me and I just can’t believe that there isn’t some higher power there not necessarily controlling us but offering us guidence in life. I believe that all religions worship this same power in different ways and by different names. For me it’s God and Jesus.

I cannot however believe in the church’s more negative teachings especially those about unwed mothers and lgbt people. The crimes they have a committed are abhorrent and my faith in no way is an acceptance or condoning of them though many people would like to believe it is.

It’s hard to explain the concept of faith because it’s such a personal thing. I will say though that I despise what the church has done to faith in this country and how it has made it a near crime to say you believe in God.

uck51js9zml2yt

Shenshen wrote: »

See, that's an assumption that doesn't convince me.

I grew up in a religious society (not Ireland, but Catholic nonetheless). I went to a Catholic school, complete with nuns. For most of my childhood and teenage years, I wanted to be religious. That was what was around me, that was what I had been told was normal, healthy, good. But I really struggled. Not because it was the wrong religion, or I had (at that time) any philosophical or ethical problems with it. Not because I had questions and doubts.
It was because I had no void to fill. I struggled to create a void that religion, faith, god then could fill up again.

It took me to my mid-twenties to realise that maybe there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe not everyone has that need, that void.

The bit in bold is me and and why I gave up on religion 35 years ago . It doesn't work!

Sycamore Tree

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I can’t really say why I believe other than the idea that there’s nothing after death doesn’t sit right with me and I just can’t believe that there isn’t some higher power there not necessarily controlling us but offering us guidence in life. I believe that all religions worship this same power in different ways and by different names. For me it’s God and Jesus.

I am curious. There are over 200 deities recorded and documented throughout the ages by various peoples (Roman, Aztec, Norse, Greek, Hindu, Maori, Chinese etc etc).
Do you think they are all the same higher power or do you think some of those gods are simply made up nonsense?

Fighting Tao

Fighting Tao wrote: »

So what has religion learned and changed as a result of the learning?

Very little, although it has adapted somewhat... with missionaries learning medicine, psychology etc, so there has been some movement away from the traditional views.

But, that's not really the point. 'Science' (especially when it comes to the mind) assumes a lot, and has been shown to be incorrect on plenty of occasions, but we still are expected to simply accept that it's better. And, in my opinion, it is better. However, this comparing of science and religion is a bit retarded since science does rest on faith in many cases. There are bulwarks of thought within science throughout history which resisted change just as much as the C Church did.

The aspect of faith is common throughout many areas. People believe they are right regardless of facts or past experience of such things. Marxism is still incredibly popular for a social and political frame in spite of its failures throughout this century. The people who engage/promote their beliefs through the lens of Marxism believe themselves to be correct. We can easily point to dozens of other areas in the modern world where things are accepted on faith..

Shenshen

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am curious. There are over 200 deities recorded and documented throughout the ages by various peoples (Roman, Aztec, Norse, Greek, Hindu, Maori, Chinese etc etc).
Do you think they are all the same higher power or do you think some of those gods are simply made up nonsense?

I wonder if that matters at the end of the day.

Despite the increased knowledge of other religions, past and present, people moving from one to another remain the exception. Yet followers of any given religion tend to be convinced that they're following the right god.
This leads me to believe that the nature of the god worshiped is secondary to other aspects of their religion.

Religion and faith always have a community and identity aspect - if fact, I would say that that is the main reason for why humans keep organising and structuring religion. It gives people a "tribe". What flavour god is being worshiped is often secondary to the fact that there is a group doing it, and by worshiping you, too, can be part of that group. As long as most of the elemental boxes are ticked (supernatural being; can be or must be addressed by human worship; gets angry occasionally so any offense, particularly by outsiders of the group has to be dealt with; communicates with humans, but infrequently/through priests/in riddles; likes colourful ceremonies with dress-up, singing, eating and dancing; and finally, all my friends are believers or proclaim to be), most gods will do.

pgj2015

SeanW wrote: »

[sarcasm]
Yes! Let's give all our money to to the government! They do so much better work than private charity. Government is never corrupt or incompetent, government operations could never be dysfunctional ever, sure. You'd never see waste or fraud ... I'm sure ...
[/sarcasm]


I doubt that.




How about Islam? Does belief in that make someone "low IQ" or "mentally ill"? or just Christianity?

all religion not just Christianity.

uck51js9zml2yt

pgj2015 wrote: »

[/B]


all religion not just Christianity.

You see that's the problem. People not being able to differentiate between religion and Christianity.

The former doesn't work. The latter does.

Berserker

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

You see that's the problem. People not being able to differentiate between religion and Christianity.

The former doesn't work. The latter does.

Or people not being able to differentiate between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. Some people still can't get their heads around the idea that some Christians would support abortion or LGBT rights, for example.

AudreyHepburn

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am curious. There are over 200 deities recorded and documented throughout the ages by various peoples (Roman, Aztec, Norse, Greek, Hindu, Maori, Chinese etc etc).
Do you think they are all the same higher power or do you think some of those gods are simply made up nonsense?

As I said I think it’s different ways of looking at the same thing or different interpretations of the same higher power/being.

uck51js9zml2yt

Berserker wrote: »

Or people not being able to differentiate between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. Some people still can't get their heads around the idea that some Christians would support abortion or LGBT rights, for example.

As I said.. religion v Christianity ....some just don't know the difference, even if they do call themselves Christian and not RC.

B.A._Baracus

And this is why I think people are as*holes as two people in this thread have stated that religious people must have mental issues or a low IQ.

Forget live and let live... Each to their own and all that.

Ursus Horribilis

I stopped believing when I was a teenager and haven't seen anything in my adult life that'd change my views on it. But that's my journey, not anyone else's. I have plenty of people in my life who have faith to a greater or lesser extent. I certainly don't judge them because they go to mass or pray or think God will help. If it makes them happy, gives them hope or makes them feel like they're doing the right thing, then fair play to them. It's not for me.

Jimmy.

Heaven must be vastly over populated by now. Housing crisis there perharps.

uck51js9zml2yt

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

And this is why I think people are as*holes as two people in this thread have stated that religious people must have mental issues or a low IQ.

I always find that line if thinking odd as having had my iq tested, it's above normal!

The Rape of Lucretia

Rhett Defeated Rival wrote: »

I always find that line if thinking odd as having had my iq tested, it's above normal!

Perfectly possible. Susceptibility to superstition has no correlation with IQ.

P_1

Look some people get their strength through their faith. Others dont. So long as the people who have faith dont try to force it on others then there is no issue.

Sadly we dont have that here in Ireland yet which is why a proper separation of church and state is needed in our constitution. This is something people with faith need not fear.

uck51js9zml2yt

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Perfectly possible. Susceptibility to superstition has no correlation with IQ.

Its funny, particularly when the psalmist said it was a fool who said there was no God!

billyhead

The OP is a joke. Just because people have faith and believe in a god or whatever doesn't mean their mentally ill. Theirs mentally ill people in all walks of life, whatever religious creed they follow or don't. Such a ridiculous thread and they seem to be appearing quite a bit on board i.e slag of people whom have religious faith