Who should I be hurling abuse at in this scenario ?

Usjes

Hi,

This has happened to me twice in the last few months. I'm cycling in a cycle lane when the passenger in the back of a taxi in the lane to my right opens the back door across the cycle lane. The first time I was moving at speed and the door was fully open when I hit it. The passenger screamed and pulled the door shut again. I'm not actually sure how that worked because the bike should have been in the way so either the taxi rolled forward from the collision or I bounced backward, it all happened very quickly. There was no damage to me though so I just shouted at the passenger and then at the driver as I cycled off but as all the doors were closed I don't know how much they paid attention to me. When it happened again yesterday the taxi was about 6 cars back from a red light so I was slowing anyway but the door opened much closer to me and I had to brake hard such that my back wheel lifted about a foot and a half off the ground and I nearly went over the handlebars. In this case though I stopped about an inch before colliding with the door so the door was left open and I could shout directly at the passenger.

Now my basic criticism of the passenger is what the f*ck are you doing opening a car door without checking if there is anything coming ?
I did get to thinking afterwards though, given that there is no wing mirror on the back doors is there any way for a rear-seat passenger to check if it is safe to open a door short of rolling down the window and sticking their head out ?

So, I'm wondering who is at fault ?

(i) The passenger for opening the door without checking or

(ii) The taxi driver for letting a passenger out in the middle of the road where they have no way of checking if it is safe to open the door ?

Should I be taking the taxi's number and reporting them to the guards or the carriage office or is it just the passenger who's to blame ?
Do the rules of the road have anything to say about this scenario ?

Thanks,

Usjes

tomasrojo

It's eminently possible for passengers to check whether it's safe to open the door. You just have to look behind you. Some people think the "Dutch Reach" method of door opening should be promoted. Seems like a good idea.

I guess one, as a cyclist, just has to leave a bit of room, about an arm's length, between oneself and parked cars and look to see whether someone is in any car one is passing (writing in the "one" person is quite unnatural, I've just realised). Be wary of taxis especially, given the volume of people entering and leaving them.

Unless you've been injured, I doubt a complaint will get very far.

tomasrojo

I don't know anything about who's legally at fault or any of that, so whereof I do not know, I will remain silent.

magicbastarder

also, a taxi driver should be checking mirrors too before letting passengers open the doors. but the passengers can also check, so they're both at fault.

ELM327

Usjes wrote: »

Hi,

This has happened to me twice in the last few months. I'm cycling in a cycle lane when the passenger in the back of a taxi in the lane to my right opens the back door across the cycle lane. The first time I was moving at speed and the door was fully open when I hit it. The passenger screamed and pulled the door shut again. I'm not actually sure how that worked because the bike should have been in the way so either the taxi rolled forward from the collision or I bounced backward, it all happened very quickly. There was no damage to me though so I just shouted at the passenger and then at the driver as I cycled off but as all the doors were closed I don't know how much they paid attention to me. When it happened again yesterday the taxi was about 6 cars back from a red light so I was slowing anyway but the door opened much closer to me and I had to brake hard such that my back wheel lifted about a foot and a half off the ground and I nearly went over the handlebars. In this case though I stopped about an inch before colliding with the door so the door was left open and I could shout directly at the passenger.

Now my basic criticism of the passenger is what the f*ck are you doing opening a car door without checking if there is anything coming ?
I did get to thinking afterwards though, given that there is no wing mirror on the back doors is there any way for a rear-seat passenger to check if it is safe to open a door short of rolling down the window and sticking their head out ?

So, I'm wondering who is at fault ?

(i) The passenger for opening the door without checking or

(ii) The taxi driver for letting a passenger out in the middle of the road where they have no way of checking if it is safe to open the door ?

Should I be taking the taxi's number and reporting them to the guards or the carriage office or is it just the passenger who's to blame ?
Do the rules of the road have anything to say about this scenario ?

Thanks,

Usjes

For the first highlighted one it reads like you cycled into an open door, which would make it your fault.


For the second highlighted one you should cycle at a speed that allows you to stop in time, "Expect the Unexpected".

Weepsie

ELM327 wrote: »

For the first highlighted one it reads like you cycled into an open door, which would make it your fault.


For the second highlighted one you should cycle at a speed that allows you to stop in time, "Expect the Unexpected".

In incidents of dooring, you're probably wrong.

The passenger or driver (or both) is supposed to check the way is clear before opening the door. It's on them to ensure the safety of the more vulnerable party in this circumstance. I personally know of more than a few instances in which it has happened, and the insurer has paid out no question.

While it's sound advice, to expect the unexpected, again the driver/passenger is generally the liable party in my experience.

tomasrojo

If it went to court, I assumed it would come down to how sympathetic the judge was to "the cyclist came out of nowhere" excuses. I think "excessive speed" is sometimes taken into account too. Other than that, it's hard to see how it isn't the fault of the person exiting the car into the road or a bike lane.

Bit too much speaking whereof I do not know there.

magicbastarder

ELM327 wrote: »

For the first highlighted one it reads like you cycled into an open door, which would make it your fault.

because the door was fully open by the time he hit it?
how long does it take to open a car door fully? a second, at a very rough guess.
at 20km/h - which is not fast nor slow, really - a cyclist will cover 5.5m per second. that's not much time to react. it's about a car length.

tigerboon

The taxi driver is supposed to be professional and competent. Letting passengers out safely is something that should be a given.

MarkY91

I got knocked off my bike by a man opening his driver seat door last year. Left me with some stitches in my chest and unable to get out of bed for 2 days.

I'm now very cautious when cycling at speed past parked cars. Luckily in your situation OP you didn't seem to have injuries!

Usjes

I'm always amazed at how many people respond to posts without actually reading them.

Just to clarify, I was NOT cycling past a PARKED car I was cycling past a car that was still in traffic in the lane TO MY RIGHT while the footpath is to my left. Some of the, frankly moronic, responses are suggesting it is okay for someone to fling a large metal object across a cycle lane which is clearly nonsense.

I have no doubt that I am 100% in the right and had I sustained any injury the other party would have been 100% liable, the only thing I am trying to get clarity on is which of the other two parties would be liable:

(i) the taxi driver letting a passenger out in the middle of the road rather than pulling in to the side of the road or

(ii) the passenger for failing to check that the cycle lane was clear before flinging a large metal object across it.



Usjes.

Usjes

ELM327 wrote: »

For the first highlighted one it reads like you cycled into an open door, which would make it your fault.


For the second highlighted one you should cycle at a speed that allows you to stop in time, "Expect the Unexpected".

Wow, this one deserves special mention. So, by your logic if pedestrian jumps out in front of a car (or indeed a train) and the driver describes how they 'hit' the pedestrian the driver is to blame because they should 'Expect the unexpected', no matter how close to the car they are when the pedestrian jumps out ?? Similarly if a driver on the dual carriageway feels like a changing lanes there's no need to check the mirrors to see if the adjacent lane is free because any occupant of that lane should be 'Expecting the unexpected' and be moving slow enough to react ?

Basically you are arguing that mirrors and indicators are redundant, perhaps they're just for decoration ?

Usjes.

Smudger80

As an ex taxi driver and cyclist I always made sure it was safe for a passenger to exit the car,it can be awkward for a passenger in the back to see behind them fully so for me the responsibility is with the driver,I've had a go at passengers in the past trying to open the door when I've asked to wait for a cyclist to past,if a passenger opens a door on top of a cyclist you haven't a hope in hell of stopping

benjamin d

ELM327 wrote: »

For the first highlighted one it reads like you cycled into an open door, which would make it your fault.


For the second highlighted one you should cycle at a speed that allows you to stop in time, "Expect the Unexpected".

The first point has been well countered re:stopping distances etc. For the second point, the closest equivalent for a car is probably being T-boned by a car at a T junction coming from a minor road to your major road. You cannot reasonably expect or prepare for these scenarios.

jive

Taxi driver is liable, exact thing happened me before. I was filtering on left hand side going up to a red light (~7 cars or so away) and passenger in rear seats decided to hop out there. Bust bike handle and arm off door as it opened just as I was going by.

Went to guards with it, taxi driver gave me €50 cash to fix the damage on bike as that’s what it cost in the local shop (although I’m still missing something that popped off my shifter to this day, only cosmetic).

Health wise no issue just a very sore arm for a week.

Edit: in my situation it was a kid around 16 who opened the door, taxi driver is always going to be liable. They are responsible for pulling in to let people out safely, not to just let them jump anywhere because they are stationary in traffic.

realitykeeper

The taxi driver should pull up at a place for pedestrians to alight, like a footpath.

Rubberchikken

Combination imo. Checking before opening car door no matter where the car is. Cyclist exoecting the unexpected simply because like a pedestrian they are vulnerable road users.

I drive, and am always aware of road users especially pedestrians cyclists and motorcyclists. And in that order.
It takes no time to check before opening car door and could save so much trouble and pain.

goat2

Usjes wrote: »

I'm always amazed at how many people respond to posts without actually reading them.

Just to clarify, I was NOT cycling past a PARKED car I was cycling past a car that was still in traffic in the lane TO MY RIGHT while the footpath is to my left. Some of the, frankly moronic, responses are suggesting it is okay for someone to fling a large metal object across a cycle lane which is clearly nonsense.

I have no doubt that I am 100% in the right and had I sustained any injury the other party would have been 100% liable, the only thing I am trying to get clarity on is which of the other two parties would be liable:

(i) the taxi driver letting a passenger out in the middle of the road rather than pulling in to the side of the road or

(ii) the passenger for failing to check that the cycle lane was clear before flinging a large metal object across it.



Usjes.

You say the car was not parked, but it must have been stopped before the person exited the back of the car, What are the rules for cyclists, since there are rules for motorists, there has to be speed limits for cyclists, what are they

Wishbone Ash

goat2 wrote: »

... since there are rules for motorists, there has to be speed limits for cyclists, what are they

Cyclists are not subject to speed limits. In the road traffic regulations, speed limits only apply to vehicles constructed with a speedometer. That said, cyclists may be charged with cycling without due care and attention.

magicbastarder

goat2 wrote: »

there has to be speed limits for cyclists, what are they

there are none.

Wishbone Ash

jive wrote: »

Taxi driver is liable, exact thing happened me before. I was filtering on left hand side going up to a red light (~7 cars or so away) and passenger in rear seats decided to hop out there. Bust bike handle and arm off door as it opened just as I was going by.

Went to guards with it, taxi driver gave me €50 cash to fix the damage on bike as that’s what it cost in the local shop (although I’m still missing something that popped off my shifter to this day, only cosmetic).

Health wise no issue just a very sore arm for a week.

Edit: in my situation it was a kid around 16 who opened the door, taxi driver is always going to be liable. They are responsible for pulling in to let people out safely, not to just let them jump anywhere because they are stationary in traffic.

In 2012, I had a similar incident - passenger in the front seat of a taxi stopped in traffic, opened the door suddenly while I was passing in the cycle track. Taxi driver was decent type and said he was ultimately liable and looked after my expenses.