92 year old woman left sitting on a chair in A&E for over a day

thomas 123

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

And then whine to the fickle hysterical media who do a sensationalist piece leaving out a lot of facts so that some fools can get all hysterical.

Never ever ever fully believe the sh1te written in hysterical sensationalist media - ESPECIALLY the Indo.

When your 92 and probably in and out of the hospital most weeks im pretty sure you would go to there too.

If there was nothing wrong with her why did she have to wait to be seen for so long? (Assuming she was triaged).

I went to my GP with a laceration and was told go to the hospital A&E I was left waiting 9 hours before I left myself. Only 2 other people in were in the waiting room with me for the last 4 hours.

For the amount of tax we pay the service we received is shocking.

We really need to look at the problem and not the victim in this case.

beauf

I've never managed to get a gp appointment or a house call this year for any elderly person 80+ who needs it urgently. Been in casualty about 4 times. Longest wait was 30+hrs. I don't think it's ever been under 15hrs. Everytime they were admitted for a minimum of two weeks.

The delay is always lack of doctors and lack of bed spaces.

Always compounded by a lack of communication between different parts of the health service and even within the same hospital. One hand not knowing what the other doing and generally inefficient. Also administration putting barriers on the way of efficiency.

Also made much worse by a lack of parking, lack of payment options for that parking. And eye watering expense.

beauf

What's shocking is that this is now the normal way the system works.

Shenshen

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Because all he’s going to do is send her to hospital.

Why? Do GPs refuse to treat the elderly?

steves2

I work in a hospital in a support role. Billions are spent on the HSE every year, money is not the problem. The elephant in the room is that until they can fire people nothing will change, money goes to wages first and foremost and don't forget the pensions. Patients aren't the priority, they come last. My own dept is overstaffed and with managers who don't want to manage or discipline but want the salary. You see administrators pushing trolleys overflowing with charts down corridors, just like they were doing 50 years ago. I'm hoping to leave in the next 6 months before I become institutionalised. Are people surprised that this 90year-old-on-a-trolley stuff is still happening??

the_syco

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm overall rather shocked at the state of GPs in this country, and I do think the lack of qualification there is a massive contributing factor to the state of A&Es.

It seems mostly they're left on their own once they qualify. In other countries, they get training throughout their professional careers that the governments pay for, and thus keeps the GP's up to date. In Ireland, as they're expected to pay for any training themselves, many older GP's don't, as not only do they have to pay for the training, they also have to pay for their accommodation, and use their own time off, etc.

TallGlass wrote: »

Had to do it once and seemingly regular my advise after my day and a half chair experience at least purchase some ****ing decent chairs that are fit for the purpose to hold people for a day and a half.

The chairs are easy to clean, and if they were comfortable, some people would come in to sleep on them.

redshoes15 wrote: »

I don’t blame the junkies.

I blame the junkies and travellers who terrorise the hospital staff, and steal anything they can. You'll hear the travellers before you see them, and when you do see them, you'll see at least two Gardai there to protect the staff from assault. We should install a drunk tank next to the A&E to toss the drunks into.

Wibbs

Shenshen wrote: »

Why? Do GPs refuse to treat the elderly?

I'll start off by saying this is in Dublin within 20 mins distance of about three hospitals, so folks beyond the Pale will have a different experience..

Anyway until this past January I've had some experience of this over the last ten years looking after an aged and very infirm relative(dementia). Basically unless it was for a sniffle, or the GP insisted on a visit before extending prescriptions, then I ended up taking my own counsel on most things. Anything I deemed serious I dialled 999. Every single time I couldn't fault the service TBH. In every case they were seen within minutes of landing in A&E and were usually in their own cubicle being monitored within the hour(in St James st they have special cubicles for folks with dementia). The longest a transfer to a ward took was 8 hours, but they spent them being constantly monitored in the A&E cubicle, directly across from the nurses station. I personally couldn't fault the service to be honest(a couple of times on the wards themselves there were issues, but...).

TBH I found the GP(s) next to useless. Maybe I just got a bad run of them? But I found if it was something that would pass regardless of medical intervention there was obviously no point going. For other more practical medical stuff, the local district nurses were fantastic(watch a GP that qualified in the last 20 years try and put a bandage/dressing on. For fun). Early on I realised anything serious that I would spot anyway the GPs rang for an ambulance or fired it up the line to a consultant, or on two occasions say all was well, then it clearly wasn't and the A&E folks agreed with my calls(one was a major stroke in progress. Yeah.).

In the end I used them as signers of prescriptions(and I had to watch what script they printed)and blood takers for tests that others would do(again if it was normal grand, if it wasn't, they'd fire it up the line). In essence and in general I found the suburban new style GP service to be a glorified triage centre, blood takers, administers of vaccines(though staff nurses often did them).

Earlier this year I had occasion to go to one myself. Wasn't feeling right in myself. Nagged myself into going. The GP was utterly fucking useless if you pardon my French. To give a flavour: He took my BP and did the oul stethoscope check through three layers of clothing. As you don't. Didn't palpate my abdomen or do any other checks of that nature and his enquiry into my medical history was scant to say the least. Me, a 50 year old, smoker of many years, who hasn't attended a GP since the early/mid 90's. His suggestion was about 300 quids worth of bloods and tests and then hits me with his bill. 80 quid for a ten minute consult. Plus wanted to do up a script for a "tonic". An over the counter vitamin. Which he added to the bill. I didn't pay. He was not best pleased. He was less pleased when I outlined his failings in the near full waiting room. Wanker. Luckily whatever dose it was went of its own accord.

I've doctors in the extended family and attended them growing up, so I know the score to a fair degree. This isn't anti doctor. The hospital docs, from A&E to the wards, from relative newbies to veterans I've dealt with for years were with two exceptions very professional, with a large side order of genuine kindness with it too. GP's? Jesus. Very different to ones I attended in the distant past. I have heard outside Dublin they're more local and old style though?

arctictree

I can get a Vet out to my house any time of the day or night for 50 euro and they are generally here within the hour. What is it about Doctors that refuse to provide a service like that?

gctest50

arctictree wrote: »

I can get a Vet out to my house any time of the day or night for 50 euro and they are generally here within the hour. What is it about Doctors that refuse to provide a service like that?

Your cows don't have Medical cards

A few of them would be requesting the vet for every tiny thing and ruining it for the others

Franz Von Peppercorn

Shenshen wrote: »

Why? Do GPs refuse to treat the elderly?

No they send people to hospital unless it’s an aspirin. I literally explained that in my post - the GPs are a referral service these days. Either to A&E or a consultant.

You do realise that people have experience of this system right?

beauf

Had good and bad experiences

Mrs OBumble

1982 wrote: »

As for GPs doing house calls, that is almost unheard of in Dublin these days. There are out of hours clinics but these are still not 24/7.

I don't know the name of Dublin's out of hours service, or I would google them. (If you need do find yours - just ring your GP's answerphone, anytime, and it will tell you).

But Westdoc in Galway says:

Home visits are for terminally ill, bed bound patients and those who cannot travel, as it would cause pain or worsen their condition. A doctor may visit a seriously ill patient for other reasons such as heart attack, severe shortness of breath or serious bleeding and this decision is made by the triage nurse during the phone consultation.

Home visits may not be given to patients who are not registered with a local GP or who are registered with a GP that is not part of the Westdoc service. Priority is given to patients of participating practices.

Westdoc cannot provide home visits for none medical reasons e.g. if the patient has no transport.

ref: https://www.westdoc.ie/faq-1

I do not for one minute believe that our service is better than Dublin's.

Wibbs

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No they send people to hospital unless it’s an aspirin. I literally explained that in my post - the GPs are a referral service these days. Either to A&E or a consultant.

That sums up both my previous long post and my pretty extensive experience of them over the last ten plus years.

the_syco

Wibbs wrote: »

That sums up both my previous long post and my pretty extensive experience of them over the last ten plus years.

The family doctor; useless. Would talk to whomever I was with, rather than to me.

Next local doctor; useless. Would input the details into the computer, and have the computer tell him what my illness was.

Most recent doctor in Ireland; spot on. Knew what specialist to send me to, to sort out an issue that had plagued my for years, and also very helpful in general.

I find doctors in Ireland very hit & miss. Also, the most recent one wouldn't always be available, as he'd be doing a course every so often. But he had other doctors there that could cover for him for emergency cases.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't know the name of Dublin's out of hours service, or I would google them. (If you need do find yours - just ring your GP's answerphone, anytime, and it will tell you).

But Westdoc in Galway says:




ref: https://www.westdoc.ie/faq-1

I do not for one minute believe that our service is better than Dublin's.

Very few GPs do home visits. Out of surgery hours you can call a service who will send a doctor out to someone who's ill and can't wait to be seen until the next day. However you can be waiting several hours for the doctor to call and she/he has no access to your medical records and no knowledge of your medical history. For an elderly person who may have all sorts of underlying conditions that is not satisfactory.

jmayo

I remember as a kid back in the 80s the GP calling out to our house when I was sick.
This was when most people in the country hadn't a bean and the Irish health service wasn't so well funded as it is today.

A few years ago my mother in law was back home from getting cancer treatment in Dublin. She wasn't very well at all one night and their GP of 15 odd years just told them phone an ambulance and go to hospital.

A hospital where she sat in A&E for few hours before being dumped on a trolley and then into a day ward for next few days.

That day ward had men and women, kids and some old people.
One old man was huddled up in his bed in the fetal position.
Talk about depressing.

We had her grandchild, a 4 month old, in with us to see her.
We walked past 3/4 Irish nurses just nattering away to each other. :rolleyes:

Finally one foreign nurse told us we should remove the baby because of some infectious disease (MRSA I think ?) in there.

Patient care my ar**.
The Irish health system is a joke when it comes to front line patient care.

LirW

The next hospital from where I live is Wexford, which is a good hour's drive away. Tallaght would be the next. The local GP is great but the surgery is under-equipped. For every scan, every other check-up that requires internal checking they have no choice but refering you. I recently had a gynaecological emergency and went into the Rotunda and waited 8 hours to be seen (there were like 10 ladies before me). Their doctor was absolutely useless, sent me back to the GP and she had to send me on to the next health center that does scans. I didn't get a scan in the hospital.
When there is an emergency people know to ring up Caredoc because nobody wants to go to any hospital unless you really have no choice but going. It is not cool letting elderly wait for so long, letting pregnant women wait 10 hours after a car crash to get a necessary scan, letting people with heavy bleeding almost pass out or let parents with kids wait 10 hours to fix up their broken leg.

I think another issue is that the GPs have very limited power and equipment in what to do. Other countries have consultants for many areas that can see you quickly. Having a severe skin problem? You ring your dermatologist. Having a gynaecological issue? You ring your gyn, they all have ultrasound in their practice and check you there and then and most likely spare you a hospital trip.
If you're having an issue with your lungs, there's a doctor you can go to and they have the necessary equipment to check what's wrong.
Most GP surgeries don't have any of it, they're jack of all trades and master of none in many cases, they have no choice but sending you on if you have an urgent issue, especially one that requires internal exams or scans.
The lack of access to consultants for specific fields is shocking here, of course hospitals get clocked up because everyone who needs urgent help beyond the GPs capability has no choice but going there.

beauf

GPs are over loaded, and their is a shortage of staff and beds.

But a lot of these places other than the number of patients waiting don't actually seem busy. Everyone walks and stands around like its a slow day.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

What has changed that makes it impossible for GPs to do home visits anymore.

I genuinely don't know. When I was a child the doctor always called to the house if someone was ill in bed. There was no question of bringing a child with a tummy bug or an elderly person with a bad chest infection to the surgery. As a result A&E Departments weren't clogged up with people too ill to be driven to the doctor but not ill enough to need hospital admission.

Is it a shortage of GPs or a larger population putting more demands on their time, or increased bureaucracy that chains them to the surgery. Whatever it is, it is a real shame that house calls from doctors have become a thing of the past.

ChikiChiki

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

!A 92-year-old woman was left sitting on a chair in a Dublin A&E facility, her family have revealed.
Gladys Cummins visited the A&E department of the Mater Hospital on Monday when she was feeling unwell.
Her daughter Dee Cummins was with her, as she was moved constantly from one chair to another while waiting for over a day in the department to see a doctor."

What on earth has gone wrong in this country? There is a heartbreaking photograph accompanying this article of the poor woman, slumped ill and weak, in a chair in the A&E Department.

This was happening 5/6 years ago too. Have people been asleep or what?

I just consider it part and parcel of our shockingly **** health service that will never change now.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

Hiccups.

Wrong. Hiccups was the only symptom my 88-year old dad had of double pneumonia.

beauf

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

What has changed that makes it impossible for GPs to do home visits anymore.

I genuinely don't know. When I was a child the doctor always called to the house if someone was ill in bed. There was no question of bringing a child with a tummy bug or an elderly person with a bad chest infection to the surgery. As a result A&E Departments weren't clogged up with people too ill to be driven to the doctor but not ill enough to need hospital admission.

Is it a shortage of GPs or a larger population putting more demands on their time, or increased bureaucracy that chains them to the surgery. Whatever it is, it is a real shame that house calls from doctors have become a thing of the past.

Its a similar thing with elderly or long term sick that want to be maintained at home. There resources aren't there so they go to hospital or homes.

erica74

jmayo wrote: »

I remember as a kid back in the 80s the GP calling out to our house when I was sick.
This was when most people in the country hadn't a bean and the Irish health service wasn't so well funded as it is today.

A few years ago my mother in law was back home from getting cancer treatment in Dublin. She wasn't very well at all one night and their GP of 15 odd years just told them phone an ambulance and go to hospital.

A hospital where she sat in A&E for few hours before being dumped on a trolley and then into a day ward for next few days.

That day ward had men and women, kids and some old people.
One old man was huddled up in his bed in the fetal position.
Talk about depressing.

We had her grandchild, a 4 month old, in with us to see her.
We walked past 3/4 Irish nurses just nattering away to each other. :rolleyes:

Finally one foreign nurse told us we should remove the baby because of some infectious disease (MRSA I think ?) in there.

Patient care my ar**.
The Irish health system is a joke when it comes to front line patient care.

I agree the health system is a joke. I work in a hospital and see it every single day, continuing to deteriorate. And nobody cares, management don't care and the government don't care.
However, just in relation to the part in bold, staff need to speak to each other, and the "foreign nurse" was quite right asking you to remove the baby. I wouldn't bring a baby or child anywhere near a hospital unless he/she actually needed to be there themselves.

Graces7

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

Very few GPs do home visits. Out of surgery hours you can call a service who will send a doctor out to someone who's ill and can't wait to be seen until the next day. However you can be waiting several hours for the doctor to call and she/he has no access to your medical records and no knowledge of your medical history. For an elderly person who may have all sorts of underlying conditions that is not satisfactory.

In these days of easy access to online records etc, it is inexcusable.

Graces7

beauf wrote: »

Its a similar thing with elderly or long term sick that want to be maintained at home. There resources aren't there so they go to hospital or homes.

Yep. I am working on alternative plans. Getting too near 80 to chance it. But as I have no current access t o medical care? And given recent experiences, that is fine. Last time I was in A and E, the triage nurse ignored me and asked the paramedic if I could walk, then sent me out to sit in the public waiting room, in my nightdress for \I think, 10 hours on a very hard chair .

Never again.