Justice Served??

smurgen

mcmoustache wrote: »

With all the bad news in the world, this is a nice story to read about in the morning.

Like most people, I'm generally against violence but in this case, I have zero sympathy for the burglars and I believe that the locals did the world a favour. You can be sure that these burglars weren't on their first burglary nor were they going to stop after this one. The action taken by the locals provided both a punishment for what they did in the past as well as a deterrent against what they were planning to do in the future. I have a feeling that there will have been a better lesson learned here than any suspended sentence would have given.

This is it. I think items like this are an unfortunate outcome of the suspended sentence/legal aid culture that's become lucrative for the court and legal system in this country. It's failing communities vulnerable to criminal and undermining the authority of the Gardai also. The Gardai are risking life and limb to abprehend these scumbags only to have solicitors and judged do the whole bad upbringing,in rehab, slap on the wrist dance in court. This outcome is inevitable really.

Wheety

Concurrent sentences need to go too. How can you commit 3 serious crimes and get 2 years, 2 years and 3 years and this adds up to 3, getting out in a year and a half?

I was just reading about some ex-soldier who battered his girlfriend, sentenced to 3 years. While in prison he received 2 further sentences, one for threatening to kill someone and one for clocking a car (he sold cars too) and ended up getting nothing added to his original sentence.

erica74

I wouldn't like to see a criminal murdered or beaten up too severely, simply because I wouldn't be happy for the vigilante to go to jail or get in too much trouble but a slap and detained until the gardai arrive is sufficient.

oceanman

the state could be saved a lot of money here.... if everyone did similar to this when we see a crime being committed then we would need only about quarter the police force we have now, then again we would need way more hospital beds so probably it would just itself cancel out...

animaal

Have to admit, I did have a grin reading the article. It's difficult to have any sympathy for the "alleged" burglars.

Looking at the bigger picture though, I'm not at all comfortable with a mob of people dishing out their own punishment. I'd see that as distinct from violence to protect your health or belongings.

We had too many years of "punishment beatings" on this island, there's no point swapping one set of perpetrators for another.

(I'm still grinning though)

mcmoustache

smurgen wrote: »

This is it. I think items like this are an unfortunate outcome of the suspended sentence/legal aid culture that's become lucrative for the court and legal system in this country. It's failing communities vulnerable to criminal and undermining the authority of the Gardai also. The Gardai are risking life and limb to abprehend these scumbags only to have solicitors and judged do the whole bad upbringing,in rehab, slap on the wrist dance in court. This outcome is inevitable really.

Exactly. Everyone knows this and the only ones who defend this system are legal professionals and a few bleeding hearts who aren't affected.

It's obvious that the system isn't working when it comes to burglary. It's a serious crime that has a traumatic effect on the victims but the sentences are extremely lenient, particularly when burglary isn't generally a once-off activity.

I know that what happened in Cork won't put much of a dent in in the burglary statistics but there are now a bunch of households who would have otherwise been burgled by these guys and now won't be.

eviltwin

Great to see the scumbags getting a taste of their own medicine for once.

I wouldn't go looking to start something but if someone comes into my home with criminal intent I will do whatever I can do protect it.

corks finest

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/locals-serve-brutal-street-justice-13222599

"Here is an alleged burglar who suffered brutal street justice after locals caught him leaving a burgled house in an Irish estate.

Sources said that the man was one of two alleged burglars who had kicked in the door of a house at Churchfield Greens, on the north side of Cork city, on Sunday night."

Does AH people think they deserved it?Or is it step in the wrong direction for Irish society?

I'd say yes, people won't ring the gardai,as you'd be dead by the time they arrived.

Should have kneecapped the bastards

Gimme A Pound

trik wrote: »

So you'd have sympathy for thieves who were robbing people who are not working class?

Ah now, that's quite the leap.

They never said that at all - they didn't even imply it.

Grayson

I know this will go against the grain but I think it's horrible. I fully understand why people want to see this happen, part of me does too. But you can't have vigilante justice. We have laws for a reason, mob justice is terrible. The people who did that should be charged.

Graces7

Grayson wrote: »

I know this will go against the grain but I think it's horrible. I fully understand why people want to see this happen, part of me does too. But you can't have vigilante justice. We have laws for a reason, mob justice is terrible. The people who did that should be charged.

At last. THANK YOU. And yes, whoever commits a crime is a criminal regardless of the reason. In fact as the revengers think they are better people than criminals?

Commanchie

Im not a fan of Vigilante justice. Who is to say they are judge and jury. Leave it to the police to deal with these guys.
If we all start dealing with issues like this first hand its only gonna go one way and it brings society down the jacks.

razorblunt

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Yeah, right I am sure they will be getting a flood of calls.
Guards not interested in homes getting ransacked and public not interested in scum getting a bit of alleged street justice.

I like how the paper says alleged burglars but is dead sure about the vicious street justice.

Why are the Guards wasting scarce resources investigating this alleged affray?

Otherwise what would stop lads from beating up someone in their gaff and then just saying "ah yeah they're burglars".

Don't get me wrong, I grow up around that area in question and those lads got what they deserved. I wouldn't put it past the Gardaí knowing the lads and the extreme likelihood of what they were doing and this is a token gesture.
It would also help if someone 5 doors down came forward and said they were broken into too that night.

North inner city hoodlum

Page six (on mobile) before some disagreed with the beaten, a fcuking boards record

We have to protect ones self and property gardai are becoming reactive rather than pro active (guards can only do so much with limited resources).

Fair play to the locals, they would have been long gone by the time gardai arrived, even if they were rang which I doubt.

I hope no time is spent by gardai investigating the justice served and they still get charged with the alleged* burglary.

Allegelly* a third person took off in their transport while his alleged* burglars were beaten.

No honour amongst thieves!

*information is quite light on this at the moment still.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I'd personally doubt that was the first bit of ultra violence those lads had carried out, and I'd doubt all of the previous attacks had been on burglars. Presuming they took those pictures themselves, what a bunch of heroes!

Honestly, I'm sceptical that two lads travelled that distance to burgle a house in fcukin Churchfield, in daylight. It is possible they're that stupid of course, and I've no sympathy for them, but i'd take it with a grain of salt.

I understand why people are reacting with satisfaction given that burglars have been operating violently and more and more brazenly, and the fact that antisocial crime in general seems to go unpunished. Both the incident and the reaction show just how sh1te our justice system is. Can see it happening more and more as frustration with it gets worse.

That appeal for witnesses at the end is HILARIOUS though...

CrankyHaus

Hadassah Odd Camera wrote: »

I'd personally doubt that was the first bit of ultra violence those lads had carried out, and I'd doubt all of the previous attacks had been on burglars. Presuming they took those pictures themselves, what a bunch of heroes!

Honestly, I'm sceptical that two lads travelled that distance to burgle a house in fcukin Churchfield, in daylight. It is possible they're that stupid of course, and I've no sympathy for them, but i'd take it with a grain of salt.

I understand why people are reacting with satisfaction given that burglars have been operating violently and more and more brazenly, and the fact that antisocial crime in general seems to go unpunished. Both the incident and the reaction show just how sh1te our justice system is. Can see it happening more and more as frustration with it gets worse.

I was actually thinking of saying this myself, particularly the first part. The extent of the injury suggests it was caused by people who've done this before and you wouldn't need to rob a house for them to do it to you. Earlier someone mentioned a report of fingers lopped off, as if anyone but crims would even doing think of cutting off your fingertip as an instinctive response to burglary.

TerrorFirmer

Would have no sympathy for anyone who took a hiding in the course of burgling someone's home but this story doesn't really seem to add up and the injuries sustained appear to be pretty horrific...and sadistic. Looks more like a vendetta.

corks finest

North inner city hoodlum wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/locals-serve-brutal-street-justice-13222599

"Here is an alleged burglar who suffered brutal street justice after locals caught him leaving a burgled house in an Irish estate.

Sources said that the man was one of two alleged burglars who had kicked in the door of a house at Churchfield Greens, on the north side of Cork city, on Sunday night."

Does AH people think they deserved it?Or is it step in the wrong direction for Irish society?

I'd say yes, people won't ring the gardai,as you'd be dead by the time they arrived.

Should have kneecapped the bastards

smurgen

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Hadassah Odd Camera wrote: »

I'd personally doubt that was the first bit of ultra violence those lads had carried out, and I'd doubt all of the previous attacks had been on burglars. Presuming they took those pictures themselves, what a bunch of heroes!

Honestly, I'm sceptical that two lads travelled that distance to burgle a house in fcukin Churchfield, in daylight. It is possible they're that stupid of course, and I've no sympathy for them, but i'd take it with a grain of salt.

I understand why people are reacting with satisfaction given that burglars have been operating violently and more and more brazenly, and the fact that antisocial crime in general seems to go unpunished. Both the incident and the reaction show just how sh1te our justice system is. Can see it happening more and more as frustration with it gets worse.

I was actually thinking of saying this myself, particularly the first part. The extent of the injury suggests it was caused by people who've done this before and you wouldn't need to rob a house for them to do it to you. Earlier someone mentioned a report of fingers lopped off, as if anyone but crims would even doing think of cutting off your fingertip as an instinctive response to burglary.

As far as i am aware the burglars had a knife. Those that arrived on the scene may have had a weapon also.also it was 9 p.m and not exactly bright.i'm thinking it may have been a chaotic fight,not a torture like you're trying to portray. Also heard that gardai took 40 minutes to arrive and the garda station is literally 3 minutes by car from the area. Churchfield is one of the forgotten about places in our city, i don't blame locals for looking out for one another.

smurgen

Commanchie wrote: »

Im not a fan of Vigilante justice. Who is to say they are judge and jury. Leave it to the police to deal with these guys.
If we all start dealing with issues like this first hand its only gonna go one way and it brings society down the jacks.

As far as i've heard the owner of the house was inside when the break in happened and elderly. Were those that mobilised to help simply meant to ring the gardai and hope that their elderly neighbour wasn't beaten?

CrankyHaus

smurgen wrote: »

As far as i am aware the burglars had a knife. Those that arrived on the scene may have had a weapon also.also it was 9 p.m and not exactly bright.i'm thinking it may have been a chaotic fight,not a torture like you're trying to portray. Also heard that gardai took 40 minutes to arrive and the garda station is literally 3 minutes by car from the area. Churchfield is one of the forgotten about places in our city, i don't blame locals for looking out for one another.

Nor I, if that's all that happened.

Terrlock

I think the main problem is that there seems to be that if we take the correct approach and go by the law, there is very little justice done and often the perpetrators appear to get very light if any sentencing and are back out doing it again.

I am surprised that there isn't more of this in Ireland and I think we are quite tame given the issues of anti social behavior that just goes unchecked in many areas of our society.

riffmongous

Terrlock wrote: »

I think the main problem is that there seems to be that if we take the correct approach and go by the law, there is very little justice done and often the perpetrators appear to get very light if any sentencing and are back out doing it again.

I am surprised that there isn't more of this in Ireland and I think we are quite tame given the issues of anti social behavior that just goes unchecked in many areas of our society.

Because it often ends up with just as much criminality, mistaken identities etc

The main problem is, there's just no political agitation happening at all, as far as I can see. Lots of complaints, lots of examples in the media of the problems, and yet no ordinary person has organised anything politically and no politician has gone near it. Something needs to be done here first before we go too far down the vigilante route and end up with some innocwnt teenager being crippled after being accused of selling hash

Grayson

smurgen wrote: »

As far as i've heard the owner of the house was inside when the break in happened and elderly. Were those that mobilised to help simply meant to ring the gardai and hope that their elderly neighbour wasn't beaten?

You can help someone without beating the living **** out of someone. If the gardai arrested someone and did that to them we'd be horrified.

Those photo's indicate a sustained prolonged beating. they don't look like someone who took a hit and dropped.

The_Kew_Tour

Grayson wrote: »

I know this will go against the grain but I think it's horrible. I fully understand why people want to see this happen, part of me does too. But you can't have vigilante justice. We have laws for a reason, mob justice is terrible. The people who did that should be charged.

I hope somebody never breaks into your house or your old family members.

You might think twice then in being so restricted

Gimme A Pound

Grayson wrote: »

You can help someone without beating the living **** out of someone. If the gardai arrested someone and did that to them we'd be horrified

The guards are able to arrest him (if they get there on time), the neighbours have no options other than physical tbh when he's violent and armed himself.

People living there and actually having to experience it are the best judges imo. It's not ideal but he won't understand anything else, and the guards are too under-resourced and limited.

CrankyHaus

riffmongous wrote: »

Because it often ends up with just as much criminality, mistaken identities etc

The main problem is, there's just no political agitation happening at all, as far as I can see. Lots of complaints, lots of examples in the media of the problems, and yet no ordinary person has organised anything politically and no politician has gone near it. Something needs to be done here first before we go too far down the vigilante route and end up with some innocwnt teenager being crippled after being accused of selling hash

Anyone advocating tougher approaches to crime would be tarred as "populist", "extremist" or even "far right" in the media. Just look at the reaction to any such actions - tough legislation from the likes of McDowell when he was MOJ, more recent FG actions against welfare fraud and statements of support for those who work hard.

There is a decent advocacy network for criminals with very good media connections: Irish Penal Reform Trust, ICCL and various parts of the NGO/Quango sector, legal profession and the church. Establishing a counterweight to that would be an uphill struggle, with plenty of character assassination thrown in, that most people aren't bothered engaging in it.

riffmongous

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Anyone advocating tougher approaches to crime would be tarred as "populist", "extremist" or even "far right" in the media. Just look at the reaction to any such actions - tough legislation from the likes of McDowell when he was MOJ, more recent FG actions against welfare fraud and statements of support for those who work hard.

There is a decent advocacy network for criminals, Irish Penal Reform Trust, ICCL and various parts of the NGO/Quango sector, legal profession and the church, that has good media connections. Establishing a counterweight to that would be an uphill struggle, with plenty of character assassination, that most people aren't bothered engaging in it.

Depends how its approached, in many cases it is just populist, or hysterical.

CinemaGuy45

Aileen Most Band wrote: »

The guards are able to arrest him (if they get there on time), the neighbours have no options other than physical tbh when he's violent and armed himself.

People living there and actually having to experience it are the best judges imo. It's not ideal but he won't understand anything else, and the guards are too under-resourced and limited.

Bravo common sense.

Prolonged sustained beatings maybe lifelong injuries good.:D

eviltwin

Grayson wrote: »

I know this will go against the grain but I think it's horrible. I fully understand why people want to see this happen, part of me does too. But you can't have vigilante justice. We have laws for a reason, mob justice is terrible. The people who did that should be charged.

If someone breaks into my home I have no idea what their intent is. Best case is they steal something but I am not going to wait to be attacked before defending myself. Anyone unlawfully in my home is fair game imo.

I'd agree it should be up to the gardai and courts but they can't and don't.

CinemaGuy45

eviltwin wrote: »

If someone breaks into my home I have no idea what their intent is. Best case is they steal something but I am not going to wait to be attacked before defending myself. Anyone unlawfully in my home is fair game imo.

I'd agree it should be up to the gardai and courts but they won't and don't.

I fixed your post.:)

decky1

love to hear this, fair play to the persons involved, i think they should have held on to him for a week or so in a basement gave him a little bit every day , may cure his urge to rob .

Grayson

Aileen Most Band wrote: »

The guards are able to arrest him (if they get there on time), the neighbours have no options other than physical tbh when he's violent and armed himself.

People living there and actually having to experience it are the best judges imo. It's not ideal but he won't understand anything else, and the guards are too under-resourced and limited.

The point was that they didn't have to be beaten that way. That was a mob and it went far beyond what was needed to restrain someone. And you think that the local people are best able to deal with it? really? You think the mob that beat someone senseless have the ability to make a rational decision in that circumstance?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I hope somebody never breaks into your house or your old family members.

You might think twice then in being so restricted

That is a tired old excuse. "I hope someone in your family is never raped/murdered/whatever"

Even if that was the case, I'm assuming you know that everyone in that group was related to the person who's house was being burgled? Of course they weren't. So you'll extend it to someone they knew. then you'll extend it to someone they saw. then you'll run out of excuses and say that anyone caught committing a crime should be beaten. Why not?





The problem with vigilante justice is that it's unsanctioned and outside the law. There's no court. There's no evidence. There's just a load of bloodthirsty idiots who want their pound of flesh. There's damn good reasons vigilante justice is illegal.

CrankyHaus

riffmongous wrote: »

Depends how its approached, in many cases it is just populist, or hysterical.

In many cases elsewhere it is. However in Ireland, at least among those of influence, a complacency, smugness and snobbish distrust of any action whatsoever is far more prevalent and in large part to blame for where we are - a situation where a growing number support vigilantism out of desperation at the state's refusal to protect them from criminals.

TheBoyConor

Those grainy, blood spattered pictures remind me of stuff I've seen on Liveleak about ISIS's antics in Syria . Horrific stuff.

But to be honest I've no sympathy for them and I say fair play to the lads that dished it out. A fingerless hand will serve as a life long reminder of what they did and what scumbags they actually are. And everyone will know too.

If someone like those robbers were to invade my property I'd have no problem mangling them leaving them with life long injuries or disabilities. They wouldn't be coming back to rob me again I can tell you.

I'd be interested to see how the Gardai will pursue this. If there is little or no consequence for the vigilantes, I think that would suggest that vigilante justice is de facto accepeted provided that it is reasonably dished out.

endacl

Magnolia Unimportant Hedge wrote: »

Do you even need Snopes to know that last paragraph was made up?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/marine-layer/

No. Just went with the funny. Because it was funny.

The_Kew_Tour

Grayson wrote: »

That is a tired old excuse. "I hope someone in your family is never raped/murdered/whatever"

Even if that was the case, I'm assuming you know that everyone in that group was related to the person who's house was being burgled? Of course they weren't. So you'll extend it to someone they knew. then you'll extend it to someone they saw. then you'll run out of excuses and say that anyone caught committing a crime should be beaten. Why not?





The problem with vigilante justice is that it's unsanctioned and outside the law. There's no court. There's no evidence. There's just a load of bloodthirsty idiots who want their pound of flesh. There's damn good reasons vigilante justice is illegal.

Never been in a fight in my life but honestly if somebody was to attack my dad in his house at some hour in looking and I caught them I make sure they never do it again.

I or they would not be going out break the law first.

You can Dam well sure if you were in situation that you would do something. It's only human

paw patrol

i fully endorse this style of community policing.

thieves are scum and given the beatings handed out to the elderly , I hope this trend continues.

Potential-Monke

Like others, the got what they deserved, but in the wrong way. Granted, it's a lesson they'll remember better than any court outcome, but on the flip side of this (and someone referenced it above), there's going to be a lot of Garda time and resources into investigating the assault, a very serious assault by the looks of it. It could end with someone being arrested and getting time for the assault, while these lads will walk (maybe?) away with a slap on the wrist from an attempted burglary, and the fact that they got seven shades hammered out of them will reduce the sentence also. Mitigating circumstances and all that jazz. Yes, it's wrong, but even criminals are entitled to a full and fair investigation of a criminal act, ie: they were seriously assaulted.

They would have been better to give them a few digs and hold them for the Gardaí. They are now the victims in the eyes of the law. I'm not even from Cork, and I know not to mess about in Gurranabraher!

Roger Hassenforder

Ideally the Gardai apprehend these burglars in the commission of the crime, remove them to a remand facility, ensuring a fair trial, with sanction that is both punitive and rehabilitative, and they're returned to society better men.

However, in the absence of this, I'd settle for a right good kicking by some local vigilantes.

colm_mcm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Those grainy, blood spattered pictures remind me of stuff I've seen on Liveleak about ISIS's antics in Syria . Horrific stuff.

100% agree, it’s 2018 now, the technology for high res camera phone pictures has been around for years.

dxhound2005

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Like others, the got what they deserved, but in the wrong way. Granted, it's a lesson they'll remember better than any court outcome, but on the flip side of this (and someone referenced it above), there's going to be a lot of Garda time and resources into investigating the assault, a very serious assault by the looks of it. It could end with someone being arrested and getting time for the assault, while these lads will walk (maybe?) away with a slap on the wrist from an attempted burglary, and the fact that they got seven shades hammered out of them will reduce the sentence also. Mitigating circumstances and all that jazz. Yes, it's wrong, but even criminals are entitled to a full and fair investigation of a criminal act, ie: they were seriously assaulted.

They would have been better to give them a few digs and hold them for the Gardaí. They are now the victims in the eyes of the law. I'm not even from Cork, and I know not to mess about in Gurranabraher!

They should be charged with burglary, not attempted burglary if there is such a crime on the statute book. The case should be heard on the facts of the alleged crime, and what happened to them subsequently should have no bearing on the sentence handed down if they are convicted.

In fact the fairest way to have the case heard would be if the court had no knowledge of what happened after the alleged crime, in the same way that they are not given details of previous convictions.

Other can be charged with what they did, and in their cases it would be right to plead mitigating circumstances, in that they were acting to prevent the escape of suspected criminals.

smurgen

Hopefully those that carried out the burglary will get a sentence for burglary.hopefully those who assualted them will get off scot free due to mitigating circumstances e.g fear for life,self defence etc.
The burglars didn't have to enter a house. That's the most important aspect as far as i'm concerned.

suicide_circus

when the judiciary fails to protect citizens it is inevitable that citizens will eventually take matters into their own hands.

those photos are fairly grizzly but there is a world of difference between this spontaneous vigilantism and the planned variety.

dxhound2005

suicide_circus wrote: »

when the judiciary fails to protect citizens it is inevitable that citizens will eventually take matters into their own hands.

those photos are fairly grizzly but there is a world of difference between this spontaneous vigilantism and the planned variety.

I can't bear to look at them.

Coillte_Bhoy

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I can't bear to look at them.

suicide_circus

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I can't bear to look at them.

I hate puns, you and I are polar opposites

screamer

Sadly the gardai will put more resources into finding and prosecuting the attackers than they would have put in to catch the burglars...where the usual response is to dust for prints and tell you there's almost no chance of any sort of prosecution. Do yep, a good beating just be proper order for scumbags.

Potential-Monke

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They should be charged with burglary, not attempted burglary if there is such a crime on the statute book. The case should be heard on the facts of the alleged crime, and what happened to them subsequently should have no bearing on the sentence handed down if they are convicted.

In fact the fairest way to have the case heard would be if the court had no knowledge of what happened after the alleged crime, in the same way that they are not given details of previous convictions.

Other can be charged with what they did, and in their cases it would be right to plead mitigating circumstances, in that they were acting to prevent the escape of suspected criminals.

Yes, that would be the fairest way, but it's not the legal way. Them getting assaulted is part of the burglary, not separate to it. It's all the 1 case, and the assault is the end of the burglary. It would be great to have them separate, and they would be if they had been off the property at that stage (which I believe they weren't), but as it happened while still on the property, it will be part of the burglary case (I said attempted, I wasn't sure on the case, and there is no attempted burglary, but it's easier than trying to explain why it may not be a burglary). As they were still on the property, even the outskirts of it, they were still within the burglary remit, and anything that happened then is a part of the same case.

Realistically, what you mentioned should be what happens, but it doesn't.

dxhound2005

suicide_circus wrote: »

I hate puns, you and I are polar opposites

Just in case you don't know, the word you were looking for was Grisly.