UEFA to bring back "third cup" competition

Harry Palmr

But alas it's not the late lamented Cup Winners Cup however for Ireland it could be a boon - the idea is to cut the EL back to 32 teams and create a tournament for smaller nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/11/uefa-third-european-competition-2021

If they are tweaking things then hopefully the CL 3rd place will be dropped.

ERG89

Hard to bring back something you dropped like UEFA did with the Cup Winners Cup. Their rebranding of the UEFA Cup was another idiotic choice as Europa League couldn't sound anymore like a second rate Champions League if they tried.

BullBlackNova

Details on how the new competition will work remain uncertain but it will not be a straight replacement for the Cup Winners’ Cup, which was discontinued in 1999.

It is more likely that it will be a Champions League-lite, with entry limited to teams from Europe’s weaker national leagues.

Oh. Well that doesn't sound too good tbh...

RoryMac

And here ends the possibility of any side outside the top 8 - 10 leagues of ever qualifying for the CL

Doctor Jimbob

RoryMac wrote: »

And here ends the possibility of any side outside the top 8 - 10 leagues of ever qualifying for the CL

At this stage I'd prefer if they just formally made it a competition for the top 4 or 5 leagues. It's practically there already, and every change they make seems designed to weight things even further in their favour.

razorblunt

I'd love a straight shoot out format again, sick of these "leagues" now.

RoryMac

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

At this stage I'd prefer if they just formally made it a competition for the top 4 or 5 leagues. It's practically there already, and every change they make seems designed to weight things even further in their favour.

Yeah maybe they should just come out and do that but they know the reaction they will get. So it will be a gradual process of offering clubs from smaller leagues sh!te like this with games probably being played at 2pm or 10pm screened online for a few crumbs all the while the Champions League will have teams like Hoffenheim that were never Champions in their League

Fr Tod Umptious

Way back in about 1990 only certain countries qualified for the European Cup if I recall.

LOI champions went straight into the UEFA Cup.

So it's not really new.

citytillidie

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Way back in about 1990 only certain countries qualified for the European Cup if I recall.

LOI champions went straight into the UEFA Cup.

So it's not really new.

Nope they did not Irish champions were in the European Cup, I remember Derry City V Benfica who reached the Final that year in the European Cup after Derry won the treble in 89

Ashbourne hoop

citytillidie wrote: »

Nope they did not Irish champions were in the European Cup, I remember Derry City V Benfica who reached the Final that year in the European Cup after Derry won the treble in 89

It was early to mid nineties. When Rovers won the league they played Gornik Zabreze in the UEFA Cup. Hammered 8-0 on agg if I remember correctly.

Fr Tod Umptious

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

It was early to mid nineties. When Rovers won the league they played Gornik Zabreze in the UEFA Cup. Hammered 8-0 on agg if I remember correctly.

Yes that's the season I was thinking of.
It old lasted a few years.

citytillidie

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

It was early to mid nineties. When Rovers won the league they played Gornik Zabreze in the UEFA Cup. Hammered 8-0 on agg if I remember correctly.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes that's the season I was thinking of.
It old lasted a few years.

Ahh right, when it was just 16 team Champions League happened for about 3 seasons, I only remember as Derry played Maribor in 97

Mr.H

Champions league should be just league champions. It could even be done in a league format
Cup winners cup should be just cup winners. Straight knockouts
Then have europa league for all the extra teams in a similar structure to now

At least thats what i would like to see. Bit of variety so neither can seem like the poor version of the other

Doctor Jimbob

Mr.H wrote: »

Champions league should be just league champions. It could even be done in a league format
Cup winners cup should be just cup winners. Straight knockouts
Then have europa league for all the extra teams in a similar structure to now

At least thats what i would like to see. Bit of variety so neither can seem like the poor version of the other

I'd love to see that as well but it's never going to happen. Having the top 4 from the big leagues in the CL is going to draw in more money and that's what it's all about for UEFA.

RoryMac

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'd love to see that as well but it's never going to happen. Having the top 4 from the big leagues in the CL is going to draw in more money and that's what it's all about for UEFA.

Yeah it'll never happen but they should give teams from the smaller leagues a fighting chance. Have the top 2 teams from each of the top leagues straight thru to the group stage but 3rd & 4th place sides should be into the qualifiers at an early stage to earn their place.

artanevilla

Sure we've the Irn-Bru cup.

citytillidie

RoryMac wrote: »

Yeah it'll never happen but they should give teams from the smaller leagues a fighting chance. Have the top 2 teams from each of the top leagues straight thru to the group stage but 3rd & 4th place sides should be into the qualifiers at an early stage to earn their place.

and risk losing a big team they will not do that now that they have gone and given 16 teams automatic entry from the top 4 leagues

RoryMac

citytillidie wrote: »

and risk losing a big team they will not do that now that they have gone and given 16 teams automatic entry from the top 4 leagues

I know they won't do it, my point is they should do it.

Closing the door on teams from the smaller countries will have a knock on effect for the leagues in those countries with interest in the league dropping in favour of the glamour clubs.

It might make sense right now in terms of money but long term it will kill the game

Deeper Blue

What would be the incentive to win this? A place in the Europa League?

On the subject of the EL, I think it's time they stopped letting the CL teams drop down as it completely dilutes the competition, especially now that there's a CL place on offer for the winner.

Mr.H

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'd love to see that as well but it's never going to happen. Having the top 4 from the big leagues in the CL is going to draw in more money and that's what it's all about for UEFA.

But surely having a stronger Europa league would generate more money for the EL. Likewise the CWC.

Money that would be or is paid for the CL would just be paid elsewhere. But I doubt UEFA would chance it

gimli2112

The Europa League's a mess, you have mid table teams, with no interest in it playing on a fooking Thursday and there's too many teams involved. They had to give it a CL place to make it relevant.

Guy:Incognito

They should just change the name of the champions league. Purely to shut up all the moaning about the name and it not being what it means. Its ****ing tiresome.

Some ****heap team getting through to the latter stages by drawing other ****heap teams while the big teams knock each other out on the other side of the draw is crap. Do we really need to see someone getting hammered in the semis by a cricket score, followed by "City/utd/Liverpool only won it cos all the good teams knocked each other out and they got appolon limassol in the semis "

RoryMac

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They should just change the name of the champions league. Purely to shut up all the moaning about the name and it not being what it means. Its ****ing tiresome.

Some ****heap team getting through to the latter stages by drawing other ****heap teams while the big teams knock each other out on the other side of the draw is crap. Do we really need to see someone getting hammered in the semis by a cricket score, followed by "City/utd/Liverpool only won it cos all the good teams knocked each other out and they got appolon limassol in the semis "

Sure why not just go the next step and just crown the Spanish champions as European champions to save some ****heap team like City/Utd/Liverpool winning?

OneEightSeven

UEFA need to reinvent themselves to avert the formation of a Super League. Europe's big clubs know they will make more money playing each other than Mickey Mouse teams in their domestic leagues. If Europe's biggest teams break away from UEFA, the Champions League, as we know it, is fúcked.

The people suggesting that the Champions League should revert back to a knockout competition between league winners are comically naive, the reason why that format doesn't exist anymore is because clubs are outgrowing their leagues and we've reached the stage where nearly every team in the EPL could beat Viktoria Plzeň. Long gone are the days when Steaua București or Red Star Belgrade could win the Champions League, their domestic league have fallen well behind the leagues in larger, wealthier countries. The EPL now has a top 6 instead of top 4, Chelsea and Arsenal are missing out this season and this means less interest in the Champions League from their large fanbase.

Football fans don't want to see Real Madrid take on Viktoria Plzeň, they'd rather see Real Madrid take on Arsenal or Chelsea and Real Madrid want that too because they'll make more money from that pairing. I believe Florentino Pérez is a big advocate for a Super League.

NIMAN

European Super League......its a matter of when not if I'm afraid.

Pauliedragon

NIMAN wrote: »

European Super League......its a matter of when not if I'm afraid.

Might aswell get it over and done with. All the big leagues are boring now. Something new might be interesting.

Omackeral

sugarman wrote: »

I know its been almost 30 years since its been the case, but the 'Champions League' should be just that. The champions of each country. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th to maximize profits, sponsors etc..

The fact that clubs would rather finish 4th in the league than win the FA Cup is a sickener romance wise. It's soulless. I also begrudge the fact that they did away with losing cup finalists in Europe too, if the the cup winner was already qualified. You'd get the likes of second and even third tier teams mixing it up in Europe when they'd never get the chance ordinarily.

campo

Mr.H wrote: »

Champions league should be just league champions. It could even be done in a league format
Cup winners cup should be just cup winners. Straight knockouts
Then have europa league for all the extra teams in a similar structure to now

At least thats what i would like to see. Bit of variety so neither can seem like the poor version of the other

The reason this won't happen is the same reason they got rid of the Cup winners cup as half the teams in it were not cup winners.

The likes of Bayern, Barca, United, AC Milan etc were doing the double in their countries for the runners up in the national cup were going in the Cup winners cup.

Plus more money to be made from UCL & EL , Personally I am all for this change I much prefer to see Liverpool vs PSG in a UCL then Glentoran vs Dinamo Bucharest in a first round of a European Cup

dan1895

Sure just have the biggest 16 clubs in Europe play in a super league and disband the rest as they seem to be causing so much inconvienience by simply existing.

lawred2

sugarman wrote: »

Load of bollox, money is absolutely killing the game.. the rich are just getting richer and the gap is forever growing not only between leagues but between the top teams in each league and the mid tabled teams.

I know its been almost 30 years since its been the case, but the 'Champions League' should be just that. The champions of each country. Not 2nd, 3rd, 4th to maximize profits, sponsors etc..

Europa league league will always be a 2nd rate competition having team drop into it from the Champions League. Again, money talking.

It's not really killing the game though is it..

dan1895

lawred2 wrote: »

It's not really killing the game though is it..

It's killing the spirit of the game

lawred2

dan1895 wrote: »

It's killing the spirit of the game

People are always saying this.. Every time something changes in football.

What is the spirit of the game? Truly?

It's a professional money making enterprise.

If you want sprit of the game them head off down to the local park.

lawred2

campo wrote: »

The reason this won't happen is the same reason they got rid of the Cup winners cup as half the teams in it were not cup winners.

The likes of Bayern, Barca, United, AC Milan etc were doing the double in their countries for the runners up in the national cup were going in the Cup winners cup.

Plus more money to be made from UCL & EL , Personally I am all for this change I much prefer to see Liverpool vs PSG in a UCL then Glentoran vs Dinamo Bucharest in a first round of a European Cup

Very few clubs in the CL are, or have been champions of anything.

OwaynOTT

Come third in your group, go straight into Europa knockouts, lose that do the teams then go straight into the final of this third tier one?

citytillidie

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Come third in your group, go straight into Europa knockouts, lose that do the teams then go straight into the final of this third tier one?

Well considering they are talking about reducing the numbers in the Europa league i say there will be no dropping down and if you finish 3rd in the Champions league group stage you are out

5starpool

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Come third in your group, go straight into Europa knockouts, lose that do the teams then go straight into the final of this third tier one?

I'm hoping they do away with this competition hopping as part of the restructure, and if the EL and this new comp have 32 teams after qualifying, it makes sense that it will be done away with.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Very few clubs in the CL are, or have been champions of anything.

How do you figure?

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you figure?

How do I figure what? It's patently obvious. Many entrants in the CL have not won any domestic league competitions.

GavRedKing

citytillidie wrote: »

Well considering they are talking about reducing the numbers in the Europa league i say there will be no dropping down and if you finish 3rd in the Champions league group stage you are out

Should be the way.

5 of the last 10 winners have dropped in from the UCL.

6 of the last 10 losing finalists have also dropped in from the UCL.

2 of the last 10 finals have featured 2 teams that dropped in from the UCL.

There really shouldn't be a back door, if you don't finish 1st or 2nd in the CL, you should be out of Europe.

sabat

How about a straight knockout, 1 tie only, open to every club in every top division in uefa, including those in the champions league. There could be 2 or 3 preliminary rounds for lower ranked leagues and champions league participants could skip the league cup. There would be the equivalent of FA Cup 3rd round day when the remaining minnows get thrown into the hat and you could see match-ups like Real Madrid away in Gibraltar or Bohs heading to the Allianz.

GavRedKing

sabat wrote: »

How about a straight knockout, 1 tie only, open to every club in every top division in uefa, including those in the champions league. There could be 2 or 3 preliminary rounds for lower ranked leagues and champions league participants could skip the league cup. There would be the equivalent of FA Cup 3rd round day when the remaining minnows get thrown into the hat and you could see match-ups like Real Madrid away in Gibraltar or Bohs heading to the Allianz.

Wont make UEFA money at all, its a noble idea though.

The CL is pretty much a closed shop.

I'd prefer if they kept the current format for the groups but only defending champions, the EL winners and the top 6 league winners are in pot 1.

Everyone else then is involved in an open draw, no seeds or teams from the same country being restricted in a group.

Again, it wont ever happen but it would be a nice idea, also, get rid of the away goal all together, I know something was being discussed around this recently.

OwaynOTT

citytillidie wrote: »

Well considering they are talking about reducing the numbers in the Europa league i say there will be no dropping down and if you finish 3rd in the Champions league group stage you are out

5starpool wrote: »

I'm hoping they do away with this competition hopping as part of the restructure, and if the EL and this new comp have 32 teams after qualifying, it makes sense that it will be done away with.

I thought my disdain of how UEFA are running these leagues was obvious from my post, sorry.
I agree that teams dropping down is crap, makes a mockery of teams who busted a gut to get there by winning matches.
I have no faith in UEFA running this in anyway fair. Whatever makes them the most money or keeps the big teams happy is what they will do.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

How do I figure what? It's patently obvious. Many entrants in the CL have not won any domestic league competitions.

You reckon at least 17 of the 32 teams in the CL have never won their domestic league or cup?

citytillidie

Deleted User wrote: »

You reckon at least 17 of the 32 teams in the CL have never won their domestic league or cup?

There is only 15 League Champions in this years Champions League

1 Holders and 1 Europa League Holders.

Rest finished between 2nd & 4th in their league last season

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You reckon at least 17 of the 32 teams in the CL have never won their domestic league or cup?

Never? I'd imagine they have at some point in their history.

Like ever present Liverpool. Last domestic league win predates the champions league.

Are there clubs that qualify through domestic cup competitions.. not that I was aware of.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Never? I'd imagine they have at some point in their history.

Like ever present Liverpool. Last domestic league win predates the champions league.

Are there clubs that qualify through domestic cup competitions.. not that I was aware of.

Doesn't quite tally with the post I quoted earlier:

lawred2 wrote: »

Very few clubs in the CL are, or have been champions of anything.

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Doesn't quite tally with the post I quoted earlier:

Literal interpretation? I would suppose not.

How many league winners are in this year's 32?