The Frederick St protest and reaction

J_E

lawred2 wrote: »

Keepers of the peace. Nothing peaceful about breaking and entering.

Was it necessary to have 2 groups of masked security for this? One still unknown with an illegally parked/registered vehicle? This is a scary police response. You can't tell me this was in any way necessary.

Is there evidence the occupiers were violent and warranted this level of force?

lawred2

J_E wrote: »

It's the duty of Gardai to follow the law... why were they helping this group?

Many protests and calls for change have had to sometimes challenge laws. Laws don't define the morality of a nation.

Challenge laws or outright break laws?

Laws against breaking and entering private property would be a rather fundamental tenet of any Civic society really.

Hardly anything oppressive or unusual.

McMurphy

weldoninhio wrote: »

The eviction team would have rang the Gardahead of time to let them know when they were going to begin eviction proceedings. The Gardaould have assessed the potential for any trouble starting, they would have taken into account the fact that the crusties were already ignoring a court order and likely to resist. The Gardaay not know who employed the eviction team, or if they are even employed, it could be family members or friends of the owner. That is not the Gardai’s concern.

You start the post as if you're privy to some aspects of this operation, telling me the eviction team called the gards to inform them of their intentions, then proceed to tell me the gards might not know ho employed them(because obviously they wouldn't ask and just turn up nilly willy at everything they're ever asked to wttend)you then suggest it might even have been members of the landlords family..... who all coincidentally just happen to work in the same industry - that of enforcing evictions, who travel around in a clapped out English reg van, with the front plate possibly fallen off, and have a penchant for balaclavas.......

Am I supposed to take this kind of scutter as serious posting or what?

There is no obligation for them to wear ID as explained earlier in the thread.

missed this explanation, not sure who posted it or their qualifications that may or may not make them suitable to state these matters, but I for one would expect anyone calling to my person to carry out any court orders or eviction notices civil or otherwise to at least show identification.

The vehicle did comply with our road traffic laws, as explained by AGS spokesperson in the Irish Times.

I read somewhere online that the guards responded to a vehicle check that reported the vehicle was untaxed since 2014, nothing about the missing registration plate at the front.

As far as I'm aware, a vehicle must display front and rear registration plates in Ireland. If there's a way of complying with rules of the road without displaying one, i am open to your explanation.

Off you go.

Could you explain what law the eviction team broke?

Apart from me questioning the legality of their partially displayed registration plates, and as to whether or not that is legal on the states road's, I don't believe I ever suggested if their eviction was legal or not.

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep, pick up their kids from a €1500/2000 a month creche whatever the cost of it is, and then commute home to the arse end of Westmeath or wherever and probably muttering every mile of the way home about their miserable lifestyle. We did this during Celtic Tiger 1 and moaned mightily about it. Celtic Tiger 2 The Sequel finds us doing the exact same thing again and seemingly willing to do nothing about it.

F**k it, you know what, the Pavlovian worshippers of the system deserve their long miserable commutes if they continue to buy into a concept that treats them so badly in the long run.

How utterly nasty.

To speak about people who have to put their children in creche because they cannot give up work, who have bought their own home but all they can afford is one that is a long commute, in such a way. But they're the bad ones, those blocking them from getting home to their children and the precious little free time they have... yeah they're the good guys.

The quoted is what's ****ing pavlovian.

dfx-

Only reading this thread and incident from abroad now. Terrific to see the protest, long may it continue.

mynamejeff

J_E wrote: »

It's the duty of Gardai to follow the law... why were they helping this group?

Many protests and calls for change have had to sometimes challenge laws. Laws don't define the morality of a nation.

so do you want the gardai to uphold the law as you see it or the law as it is ? coz you cant have it both ways kid

HeidiHeidi

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As many as it takes to cause widespread deflation in the rental market and ensure that nobody has to obliterate their disposable income just to have a roof over their head. I don't have figures for how much social housing DCC had to build during the 1930s in order to ease the crisis, but I can do some rough estimates given that I've studied a lot of those blocks fairly substantially and can give a rough estimate as to how many units fit in each estate and how many of these estates there are across the city. It's made more complicated by the fact that some of them have been demolished though. I'll try and source these figures and do some calculations for you so we can at least have the benchmark of how many they had to build in the first half of the 20th century.

I know that the number stretches into the thousands at the very least (even just three - Dolphin House, O'Devaney Gardens and Teresa's Gardens - break the 1,000 figure easily when put together) but just to give you an idea, one of those red-bricked blocks with the circular stairwell towers adjacent holds exactly 48 flats over five storeys - technically eight flats per storey, but the upper two rows are in fact duplexes. Most of those developments in the city are built in groups of 2-5 blocks - Stephen's Green / Cuffe Street has two, Bishop Street has three, Chamber Street used to have three, Charlemont Street used to have 5 - so straight away in a relatively small stretch of the South Inner City, 13 such blocks with 48 flats in each, for a grand total of 585 units. And that's scraping the tip of the iceberg to be honest - the Mercer Street development beside the Cuffe Street one is absolutely vast, it's just harder to count it because several of its blocks are internal ones with buildings surrounding them, so you don't just pass them by when walking through town. I'll have a look on Google Street View later.

So this could take me a while, but I'll attempt to get figures for you on what we did before, right up until the end of the 1980s when the God-awful era of "the free market matters more than human life and happiness" began.

Two things strike me from your post above, and since you seem to be well clued up on all of this maybe you might answer my questions?


Firstly, if you want "widespread deflation" in the rental market, is that not going to lead to an even bigger scramble of landlords getting out of the rental business than is currently underway, as it will no longer be in any way profitable (being a landlord is a business they're entitled to make a profit, they too have to live after all).


Secondly, almost all of the developments you sing the praises of have been demolished, Dolphin House is the only one I know of that's being redveloped in anything like its previous form. Does this not say something - like, that model failed? Clustering social housing in small areas like that was a disaster, the government seems determined not to go down that road again.

J_E

mynamejeff wrote: »

so do you want the gardai to uphold the law as you see it or the law as it is ? coz you cant have it both ways kid

I want the Gardai to respond with appropriate force, be identifiable, and not be supporting mysterious private hired help who should not be assisted in such a manner.

This whole thing could have been handled in a very different way. This is going to cause war now because of the heavy-handed response and questionable tactics.

There is no question of Gardai not handling the law. Why did they have to handle it in this way though?

blanch152

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

The point I'm making is that you should similarly have to apply for permission to leave a house vacant.

So next time I head off for a weekend to watch the Dubs, who do I apply to for permission to leave my house vacant?

RobbieMD

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's a bit far fetched, now.

I see Gardaí monitoring the property of (what i assume to be) a drug-cartel member every day on my commute to work. They never wear a disguise. Gardaí do dangerous, very brave, work every day of the week, around people who clearly represent a threat to their lives -- maybe even their families' lives.

Are you seriously telling me these cops are lying awake at night worried about people saying mean things about them on Facebook? That they are afraid of so-called 'crusties'? If they are, maybe they've chosen the wrong career.

I don't think they're lying awake at night worried about mean things being said about them, or are afraid of crusties. It's more about Facebook groups organising to congregate at their homes and kids schools and partners workplace with placards saying how they're uniformed thugs etc.

People including Gardai, should be able to go to work, do their job, and come home without that sort of harassment and intimidation, generally done by cowardly types who'll hide in a crowd behind mobile phone and shouts of peaceful protest.

J_E

blanch152 wrote: »

So next time I head off for a weekend to watch the Dubs, who do I apply to for permission to leave my house vacant?

You intend on returning to it. i think intent is the key here. Being away from the house and dereliction are two different things. Defining them legally is the harder challenge.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

around in a clapped out English reg van, .

I never realised you were a mechanic. How else do you know that the van is clapped out?

blanch152

J_E wrote: »

You intend on returning to it. i think intent is the key here. Being away from the house and dereliction are two different things. Defining them legally is the harder challenge.

What if I decide next year to collect my hard-earned public service pension and head to Spain for half a decade, while keeping my house in Dublin in case I want to return.

Do I need permission for that?

Thatnastyboy

J_E wrote: »

You intend on returning to it. i think intent is the key here. Being away from the house and dereliction are two different things. Defining them legally is the harder challenge.

Suppose you could make the definition of derelict quite broad and easy to exploit. That way you could end up with a figure of around 10,000 fairly sharpish.

HeidiHeidi

blanch152 wrote: »

What if I decide next year to collect my hard-earned public service pension and head to Spain for half a decade, while keeping my house in Dublin in case I want to return.

Do I need permission for that?

Jesus, don't mention a public service pension :eek:


You'll send half the contributors to this thread over the edge!

Iodine1

J_E wrote: »

It's the duty of Gardai to follow the law... why were they helping this group?

It just so happens the Gardai were upholding the law. The "peaceful protesters" were defying a contempt of court order which was passed 2 weeks ago. This is the law and protesters are not above the law and much as you would like to think dont get to decide which laws suit them and which dont. The squatters had 2 weeks to comply peacefully and the chose not to do so. So the rule of law in the country was upheld.

blanch152

J_E wrote: »

Was it necessary to have 2 groups of masked security for this? One still unknown with an illegally parked/registered vehicle? This is a scary police response. You can't tell me this was in any way necessary.

Is there evidence the occupiers were violent and warranted this level of force?

Given the history of the types of protesters that surround the likes of Mick Barry and put up pictures of Gardai on Facebook pages and try to intimidate them in their homes and their localities and their families, including their young children, then I am not surprised that the Gardai covered their faces.

20Cent

rosser44 wrote: »

Because its much more likely that he's co-opting a vocal and populist group of anti everything protesters to further his own political career? Like he's done from the get go?

Do you think he'd be there of there was no cameras or reporters, or a chance to get his name in the paper?

Rich person sticks up for the poor they are showboating. Poor person sticks up for the poor they are greedy and want "free stuff".
Ya can't win.

J_E

It just so happens the Gardai were upholding the law. The "peaceful protesters" were defying a contempt of court order which was passed 2 weeks ago. This is the law and protesters are not above the law and much as you would like to think dont get to decide which laws suit them and which dont. The squatters had 2 weeks to comply peacefully and the chose not to do so. So the rule of law in the country was upheld.

And what of this private group in the unregistered van, so?

blanch152

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Jesus, don't mention a public service pension :eek:


You'll send half the contributors to this thread over the edge!

Mine will be a lot less than Richard Boyd-Barrett's or Paul Murphy's, so I guess I am entitled to it.

endacl

blanch152 wrote: »

What if I decide next year to collect my hard-earned public service pension and head to Spain for half a decade, while keeping my house in Dublin in case I want to return.

Do I need permission for that?

We’ll be doing that sometime in the future. We’ll rent the house in Dublin though. The rent will provide a cosy lifestyle on the costa! Short term lets only. We won’t have any threshold advised numpties deciding they don’t need to pay simply because they don’t want to.

dxhound2005

J_E wrote: »

And what of this private group in the unregistered van, so?

A van has to be registered somewhere, or it is not a van.

weldoninhio

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You start the post as if you're privy to some aspects of this operation, telling me the eviction team called the gards to inform them of their intentions, then proceed to tell me the gards might not know ho employed them(because obviously they wouldn't ask and just turn up nilly willy at everything they're ever asked to wttend)you then suggest it might even have been members of the landlords family..... who all coincidentally just happen to work in the same industry - that of enforcing evictions, who travel around in a clapped out English reg van, with the front plate possibly fallen off, and have a penchant for balaclavas.......

Am I supposed to take this kind of scutter as serious posting or what?
missed this explanation, not sure who posted it or their qualifications that may or may not make them suitable to state these matters, but I for one would expect anyone calling to my person to carry out any court orders or eviction notices civil or otherwise to at least show identification.

I read somewhere online that the guards responded to a vehicle check that reported the vehicle was untaxed since 2014, nothing about the missing registration plate at the front.

As far as I'm aware, a vehicle must display front and rear registration plates in Ireland. If there's a way of complying with rules of the road without displaying one, i am open to your explanation.

Off you go.


Apart from me questioning the legality of their partially displayed registration plates, and as to whether or not that is legal on the states road's, I don't believe I ever suggested if their eviction was legal or not.

Another wall of nonsense. When did I say the building owners family were in the “industry”? The building owner has the right to enforce the court order.


2nd part of the nonsense. Anyone “calling on your person” while you are illegally occupying someone else’s house would have to show you ID?? FFS.

3rd paragraph. You read “somewhere” online? I’ll go with the Garda spokesperson on this one.

And the final para of nonsense. As far as you are aware. Jesus wept. Maybe it fell off and they had informed the Gardaí of same, which the Gardaí took at face value.

HeidiHeidi

J_E wrote: »

And what of this private group in the unregistered van, so?

The van is/was registered, I've seen at least three pictures of the registration plate

Hurrache

J_E wrote: »

I want the Gardai to respond with appropriate force, be identifiable, and not be supporting mysterious private hired help who should not be assisted in such a manner.

Sigh, they were identifiable.

golfball37

The Gardai should be arresting anyone driving around Dublin in a balaclava with blacked out plates. Are private out of state security operatives exempt from the law of this land?

gandalf

Normally I would be against this sort of protest but we live in extraordinary times. For years politicians have been saying that they were going to stop the hoarding of vacant land and property. That has not happened. It's needs to. There should be a policy of use it or lose it. The state needs to build homes again. In this country we have gotten obsessed with investing in property rather than viewing it as a home. There needs to be proper laws protecting long term renters.

Apart from the obvious issues for people who are homeless the property situation at the moment is impacting on the economy. Those who are paying high rent have a reduced or nonexistent disposable income. Foreign companies will avoid the country because they can't guarantee their employees can get a home.

As for the gardai yesterday the optics were dreadful. They protected a bunch of anonymous heavies who were themselves breaking the law with a van that wasn't taxed or ncted and parked illegally. No wonder the lads had balaclavas on, you normally act like that when you're ashamed.

mynamejeff

J_E wrote: »

I want the Gardai to respond with appropriate force, be identifiable, and not be supporting mysterious private hired help who should not be assisted in such a manner.

This whole thing could have been handled in a very different way. This is going to cause war now because of the heavy-handed response and questionable tactics.

There is no question of Gardai not handling the law. Why did they have to handle it in this way though?

why do you need to identify yourself to illegal squatters you are lawfully removing ? they are the criminals here correct ?

the numbers were visible on one of the guys wasnt it ? front of his jacket ? only one picture from one angle ? hardly surprised you couldnt id every garda who was there

how were they heavy handed ?

if they were not there they would have been called immediately upon the eviction starting assaults criminal damage public order offences trespassing

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

I never realised you were a mechanic. How else do you know that the van is clapped out?

Why would you realise what I do in my professional career, as I have never discussed it in all my years of posting.

Anyway, clapped out means well worn/ used in other words it's seen better days.

At the rear of the van was the UK registration plate MX06 WGA. A search on the UK Government's vehicle checking website reveals that the diesel van, first registered in August 2006, is listed as untaxed and was due to be taxed by August 1, 2014.

I may or may not be a mechanic, it's irrelevant, I seen the pictures of the van.



I stand over my opinion.

flazio

If the Gardaí went in with their faces uncovered, is there not a possibility that photos would have been taken, posted up on Facebook and their names and addresses posted online?
After that there's no telling what might happen to their families.

Hurrache

golfball37 wrote: »

The Gardai should be arresting anyone driving around Dublin in a balaclava with blacked out plates. Are private out of state security operatives exempt from the law of this land?

So they had blacked out plates now, and were out of state security operatives.

This just keeps giving.

Wheeliebin30

J_E wrote: »

Was it necessary to have 2 groups of masked security for this? One still unknown with an illegally parked/registered vehicle? This is a scary police response. You can't tell me this was in any way necessary.

Is there evidence the occupiers were violent and warranted this level of force?

Scary?

Oh im sooooooo scared of the big bad men in balaclavas, grow a set you woman’s blouse.

weldoninhio

J_E wrote: »

I want the Gardai to respond with appropriate force, be identifiable, and not be supporting mysterious private hired help who should not be assisted in such a manner.

This whole thing could have been handled in a very different way. This is going to cause war now because of the heavy-handed response and questionable tactics.

There is no question of Gardai not handling the law. Why did they have to handle it in this way though?

If it does “cause war”, my money will be on the ones with the batons, armed response backup and training. Hopefully there’ll be a catch-up show I can watch in the evening to see the day highlights after work.

Bethany Long Pensioner

Bethany Long Pensioner wrote: »

How utterly nasty.

To speak about people who have to put their children in creche because they cannot give up work, who have bought their own home but all they can afford is one that is a long commute, in such a way. But they're the bad ones, those blocking them from getting home to their children and the precious little free time they have... yeah they're the good guys.

The quoted is what's ****ing pavlovian.

They are not the 'bad ones', they are the passive participators in a system that forced them into this lifestyle in the first place. Its unsustainable in the long run. Instead of agitating for meaningful change they do nothing and meekly accept their lot. I'm not being 'nasty', just harsh on those that don't like their circumstances but at the same time won't attempt to do anything about it.

Hurrache

flazio wrote: »

If the Gardaí went in with their faces uncovered, is there not a possibility that photos would have been taken, posted up on Facebook and their names and addresses posted online?
After that there's no telling what might happen to their families.

Not a possibility, a given.

blanch152

J_E wrote: »

I want the Gardai to respond with appropriate force, be identifiable, and not be supporting mysterious private hired help who should not be assisted in such a manner.

This whole thing could have been handled in a very different way. This is going to cause war now because of the heavy-handed response and questionable tactics.

There is no question of Gardai not handling the law. Why did they have to handle it in this way though?

The Gardai were identifiable, their badges were on display.

You wanted their faces to be seen, so that the mob could stop them on the street, call round to their house, harrass them on social media, as has happened after other protests.

The protesters have lost any sympathy from the police force, because of such tactics in previous protests.

Esel

mynamejeff wrote: »

why do you need to identify yourself to illegal squatters you are lawfully removing ? they are the criminals here correct ?

the numbers were visible on one of the guys wasnt it ? front of his jacket ? only one picture from one angle ? hardly surprised you couldnt id every garda who was there

how were they heavy handed ?

if they were not there they would have been called immediately upon the eviction starting assaults criminal damage public order offences trespassing

Did you see the short, stocky one with his baton drawn and ready to strike?

Wheeliebin30

Esel wrote: »

Did you see the short, stocky one with his baton drawn and ready to strike?

Good, only way to keep the peace.

Hurrache

Esel wrote: »

Did you see the short, stocky one with his baton drawn and ready to strike?

In other words, the short stocky one that didn't resort to anything heavy handed from what you saw?

What do you think the people who were arrested for public order offences done?

Esel

Hurrache wrote: »

In other words, the short stocky one that didn't resort to anything heavy handed from what you saw?

What do you think the people who were arrested for public order offences done?

He was "heavy handed" in the clips I saw.

Wheeliebin30

Honestly the only people on my Facebook page supporting these morons earlier is single mothers who actually have a house paid for by the tax payer???

Why are they so angry with life, hmmmm I wonder why.

McMurphy

weldoninhio wrote: »

Another wall of nonsense. When did I say the building owners family were in the “industry”? The building owner has the right to enforce the court order.

Right here

The Gardai may not know who employed the eviction team, or if they are even employed, it could be family members or friends of the owner. That is not the Gardai’s concern.

Sigh

2nd part of the nonsense. Anyone “calling on your person” while you are illegally occupying someone else’s house would have to show you ID?? FFS.

You don't think anyone carryingout eviction notices on behalf of a high court should be expected to show ID bless your little cotton socks.

3rd paragraph. You read “somewhere” online? I’ll go with the Garda spokesperson on this one.

glad to hear that so

link

"An Garda Sh is satisfied that the vehicle in question is tax and insurance compliant," gardai said in a statement.

Keep digging.

And the final para of nonsense. As far as you are aware. Jesus wept. Maybe it fell off and they had informed the Gardaf same, which the Gardaook at face value.

Maybe the dog ate it.

Scutter. Absolute scutter.

McMurphy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Honestly the only people on my Facebook page supporting these morons earlier is single mothers who actually have a house paid for by the tax payer???

Why are they so angry with life, hmmmm I wonder why.

This is not a side picking exercise, it is possible to simultaneously not support the actions of the protesters, while voicing your concerns of how the states police were seemingly hired to facilitate some anonymous masked goons.

J_E

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

This is not a side picking exercise, it is possible to simultaneously not support the actions of the protesters, while voicing your concerns of how the states police were seemingly hired to facilitate some anonymous masked goons.

Yes, exactly this.... Why are people conveniently ignoring this fact.

Trasna1

White_hills wrote: »

But your apathy isn't doing anything either. What do you suggest? And to add to that, people have as much right to protest as you do commute.

They have a right to protest but they don't have a right to bring cross city transport to a halt and inconvenience thousands of people.

I've no problem with the many planned marches and protests that have happened in the city over the years even if I wasn't behind or indeed opposed the causes.

dxhound2005

J_E wrote: »

Yes, exactly this.... Why are people conveniently ignoring this fact.

In fact that is a lie.

CeilingFly

golfball37 wrote: »

The Gardai should be arresting anyone driving around Dublin in a balaclava with blacked out plates. Are private out of state security operatives exempt from the law of this land?

Remember, the people involved in this are low life scum.

Unemployable waste of space.

They scam the taxpayers out of hundreds of euro every week because they think they have a right not to seek gainful employment or contribute to society.

As they believe they are a law upon themselves, they think nothing of harassing anyone that does not agree with their effed up thinking and would have no issue in putting images and personal details online of anyone getting in their way.

Hence it is quite correct for those imposing high court ruling to prevent these scum from making personal attacks on these people.

Personally I think the Gardai should have gone in with full riot gear and beaten the sh1t out of these Unemployable scum. Thats how it would be done in other countries

cursai

Anybody have any links to videos of the lads getting knocked about by the Gardai. I like watching videos of pimple popping.

Why don't they go pitch tents on some publicly owned undeveloped land to highlight their cause? Oh wait nothing gets the cameras down like an eviction from a private property now does it.

NIMAN

J_E wrote: »

Yes, exactly this.... Why are people conveniently ignoring this fact.

Anyone who was employed to get those squatters out had no option but to cover their faces with masks.

I know it makes them look evil and all, but would you do that job and show your face, so that the social media mob could find out who you are, post your name and your address for the world to see, identifying your house for possible attack by halfwits?

They have form, they did it to members of the Gardai before, public servants who were simply following the orders of their bosses and doing their job.