The Frederick St protest and reaction

Signore Fancy Pants

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you if we were not in the middle of a housing crisis. Use it or pay for the privilege of it sitting idle.

Why should a private citizen with an empty property be subjected to another bollox tax just because the Government failed?

This has been a Government failure and now pressure is being put on the people to fix it.

Now all of a sudden, the housing crisis is Joe Bloggs fault for having a vacant property.

1. What about building on vacant State land?
2. What about abusive tenants that have forced landlords to quit renting?
3. What about more legal protection for landlords to tempt or keep them in the market?
4. What about building upwards to 30 stories?
5. What about county councils unboarding houses for rent.

This is a Government problem, not a private citizens.

Guy:Incognito

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Genuine action from the government instead of just lip service about the homeless/housing issue.

And if the there's a general election in a few months and a change of government but with the same layer of civil servants below them?

Was there not a housing authority set up last week with the aim of building **** load of houses? I suppose none were built this week so that can be written off as a failure?

Again, why not ask for immediate finishing if a few ghost estates down the country that the people could move in to straight away. Surely anyone genuinely homeless would jump at the chance of a house?

Captain Obvious

pjohnson wrote: »

Eh would they not be smart enough to ensure they had enough money to do it up? Or buy a house that doesnt need such expensive doing up?

Maybe they miscalculated. Maybe they had a family tragedy. Maybe their business went under or they lost their job. Maybe they simply are waiting until they don't lose money on it.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They should have to apply for planning permission to leave it vacant, providing some kind of timescale as to when they might be able to do something with it.

And if they don't know when that might be?

Hitman3000

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Hold on until I get my law books out. They’ve used force plenty of times before to remove unauthorised sit down protests from the streets especially in Dublin.

They have used batons on students who occupied an office and caught serious flak for it. You can call for baton charges and teargas all you want but the force has to be proportionate to the actions of the protest.

Hitman3000

Chewbacca wrote:

Why should a private citizen with an empty property be subjected to another bollox tax just because the Government failed?

Same as why should a property owner be subject to a CPO?

McMurphy

Chewbacca wrote: »

Nothing about being "thick".

I know a couple who own a house here and in another country, they spend a few months here and a few months there.

I know a guy who emigrated and owns a house here, it is being cared for by relatives until he returns.

Im sure there are also more reasons houses are legitimately empty and it really doesnt matter why either.

None of those scenarios sound like they're describing a vacant unused property.

Brendan Bendar

Zzzzzzzzz. …………………same old same old

We want everything but we don’t want to pay for it.

Water charges mark 2.

Guy:Incognito

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Landlords are leaving the rental business in favour of AirBnB because of the hassle from a cohort of tenants who are protected by poor legislation.

Impossible. Sure aren't all landlords politicians. Surely all the laws are 100% in favour of landlords or that might look like utter bull****.

Hitman3000

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Was there not a housing authority set up last week with the aim of building **** load of houses? I suppose none were built this week so that can be written off as a failure?

Housing authority, I thought it was a land agency to use public lands to build houses. The suggestion being where 60 per cent of the land is given to private builders.

pjohnson

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzz. …………………same old same old

We want everything but we don’t want to pay for it.

Water charges mark 2.

Are you not the lad who falls over yourself championing Trade Unions when the bus drivers get the annual strike?

Brendan Bendar

pjohnson wrote: »

Are you not the lad who falls over yourself championing Trade Unions when the bus drivers get the annual strike?

No Pee, you got me mixed up with some other cretin.

Hint..... EOR.... :cool:

Edgware

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They have used batons on students who occupied an office and caught serious flak for it. You can call for baton charges and teargas all you want but the force has to be proportionate to the actions of the protest.

Not with students. They need to get a good clipping everynow and again. All full of social justice till they graduate and join P.W.C. or become Consultants hitting us for 200 for a five minute "consultation"

hatrickpatrick

Chewbacca wrote: »

Rubbish.

My reasoning does not need to be twisted or applied to another scenario and merely doing so undermines your argument and it's not actually an apt scenario.

Explain to me why there is a housing crisis and how a 'vacant property tax' will fix it.

There's a scarcity of the resource of fully built housing on the market. And in that context, wasting it, just like wasting water (another national resource which has recently gone through a period of scarcity) is socially irresponsible and something that the government has every legitimate right to take action against, just like it took action against wasting water during a water shortage.

Again, your issue is either failing or refusing to accept that some of us see land as a national resource first and foremost, and as a private asset second. When there's a crisis, the first concern takes precedence over the second. Not everyone agrees with this, but many people are simply refusing to accept that it's a legitimate political belief at all, which is absurd since it was a legitimate political belief for most of Ireland's post-independence history.

All Seeing Eye

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There's a scarcity of the resource of fully built housing on the market. And in that context, wasting it, just like wasting water (another national resource which has recently gone through a period of scarcity) is socially irresponsible and something that the government has every legitimate right to take action against, just like it took action against wasting water during a water shortage.

Again, your issue is either failing or refusing to accept that some of us see land as a national resource first and foremost, and as a private asset second. When there's a crisis, the first concern takes precedence over the second. Not everyone agrees with this, but many people are simply refusing to accept that it's a legitimate political belief at all, which is absurd since it was a legitimate political belief for most of Ireland's post-independence history.

Dangerous commie talk there. Whats next? Seizing the means of production with you being installed as a party official so that you get a bit more for yourself.

Brendan Bendar

Edgware wrote: »

Not with students. They need to get a good clipping everynow and again. All full of social justice till they graduate and join P.W.C. or become Consultants hitting us for 200 for a five minute "consultation"

Have form there Edge, look at Duffy, Lawlor, Finucane et al al. RTE

All supping deeply from the taxpayers trough despite being ‘rebels’ in their suudent days.

Well spotted and articulated Edge, time some of the nults posting in here recognized that

Yer Da sells Avon

Captain Obvious wrote: »

And if they don't know when that might be?

Well, then they should have to either pay a vacant property tax on it or sell it.

Edgware

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Have form there Edge, look at Duffy, Lawlor, Finucane et al al. RTE

All supping deeply from the taxpayers trough despite being ‘rebels’ in their suudent days.

Well spotted and articulated Edge, time some of the nults posting in here recognized that

Look at Duffy, White of the Labour Party etc. Quick to forget the revolution when they got their heads in the R.T.E. trough.

Of course its easy to slag off the much maligned De Valera, Frank Aiken and Sean Moylan but the real Labour Party of the 30s i.e. Fianna Fail did something about the tenements and slums with a massive house building programme

BBFAN

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Not bad. There's quite a bit there I think is ok but I wouldn't want that for everyone. The list is good but should apply only to those who can't afford their own place. They apply for it and get means tested. If you can afford your own place and you choose to do it without support, you can live where you want.

You did leave out working couples with no kids or dependents. Where would they fit in? In the case of working couples, which person's work gets priority when you are giving them a house?

Also I don't think people who have more kids should get priority. Cap it at 3. If you have more, you don't go any further up the list. They should do the same for social welfare payments.

When you say "distance to school" do you mean any school? As in "here's your house, your kids will have to change schools." Because I would be fine with that.

Working couple would come into the category of working person/s with no children. One bedroom apartment. Couple can make the choice themselves which persons work they live closer to, they do this anyway.

Distance to school, yes, distance to any school.

Wheeliebin30

Seen them there in the RTÉ news.

Champagne socialists, single mothers, Grey tracksuit scrotes and Margaret Cash the criminal traveller.

Spare me, bunch of mooching attention seekers.

Hitman3000

Brendan Bendar wrote:

Well spotted and articulated Edge, time some of the nults posting in here recognized that

Tut tut Brendan I thought you were above name calling?

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Seen them there in the RTÉ news.

Champagne socialists, single mothers, Grey tracksuit scrotes and Margaret Cash the criminal traveller.

Spare me, bunch of mooching attention seekers.

A lot of hard-working people there too, all of whom just want somewhere affordable to live.

Brendan Bendar

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Tut tut Brendan I thought you were above name calling?

Soz Hit, just harmless joshing, not meant to be insulting.

My apologies if it offended.

Wheeliebin30

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A lot of hard-working people there too, all of whom just want somewhere affordable to live.

Didn’t see any of them.

Any links or pics?

I did see Margaret Cash the criminal there.

hmmm

Some obstructing working people trying to go about their day, and trying to get home to their families. It's an unbelievably incompetent protest which is doing nothing except pissing people off.

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Didn’t see any of them.

Any links or pics?

I did see Margaret Cash the criminal there.

You and your far-right ilk only see what you want to see.

Edgware

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A lot of hard-working people there too, all of whom just want somewhere affordable to live.

And it must sicken them to see the likes of Cash bleeding the system

hatrickpatrick

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Dangerous commie talk there. Whats next? Seizing the means of production with you being installed as a party official so that you get a bit more for yourself.

Sure, because from 1930 all the way up until 1990, the Republic of Ireland was actually known as the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Ireland, and operated a totalitarian communist system :rolleyes:

Do you folks actually understand any of the historical context here? You do realise that the tenements were privately owned, not state owned, right? And you do realise that Dublin Corporation (City Countil) forcefully acquired all of them by compulsory purchase, razed them to the ground, and built high density social housing where they used to stand, right?

The ignorance of Irish history on display in this thread is absurd.

Yer Da sells Avon

Edgware wrote: »

And it must sicken them to see the likes of Cash bleeding the system

She's not the reason they're paying massive rents.

Wheeliebin30

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

You and your far-right ilk only see what you want to see.

My far right ilk:)

Awh you lefties are so precious.

I only seen the 6 o clock news sorry I was out earning money and contributing to society.

While these morons were blocking traffic and people trying to earn money to pay taxes.

They all have the paw out for handouts, moochers.

Anyway yeah I seen Margaret Cash the criminal there who has 7 kids with a convicted burglar.

Oh dear, these people need houses right now, the poor divils.

Spare me........

Brendan Bendar

hmmm wrote: »

Some obstructing working people trying to go about their day, and trying to get home to their families. It's an unbelievably incompetent protest which is doing nothing except pissing people off.

Lads are fired up by the Water Charge debacle hmmm.

Let me say, the keystones won’t be hung out to dry 9n this one.

They will have learned from Jobbo, as we have seen.

The conductors of this are staying well below the radar on this one.

Like ‘Nam.. letting the grunts take the hits.

Staying well back in the World,as the saying went;)

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I only seen the 6 o clock news sorry I was out earning money and contributing to society.

I'd be shocked if that were true.

McMurphy

hmmm wrote: »

Some obstructing working people trying to go about their day, and trying to get home to their families. It's an unbelievably incompetent protest which is doing nothing except pissing people off.

I wasn't next nor near it today (city or protest), (the life of the self employed eh) but it would appear to me that it's keeping the issue fresh on people's minds, and highlighting it.

The whole frederick street thing had almost passed me by completely only for this thread.

Wasn't sentiments like yours above thrown about all over the place when the water protests were in full swing? Skangers this, dole scroungers that, blocking the highways , rabble rabble rabble.

Now to be abundantly clear, I don't endorse anyone blocking traffic, but I fully endorse their protests.

What with all the calls for the guards to baton charge protests, set the hounds on them, and blast them with water cannons to crush their protests, it reminds me on what might happen to a protest movement against a government in one of these socialist/communist type utopias lots of the lads on here apparently detest so much.

Let's look at it rationally though, it's hardly a break down of law and order and all societal structures now is it?

Beechwoodspark

Disgusting to see that criminal Margaret cash given air time on RTÉ news earlier

Wheeliebin30

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I'd be shocked if that were true.

Why?

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Why?

He doth protest too much.

Wheeliebin30

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

He doth protest too much.

Again why?

All Seeing Eye

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sure, because from 1930 all the way up until 1990, the Republic of Ireland was actually known as the Peoples' Democratic Republic of Ireland, and operated a totalitarian communist system :rolleyes:

Do you folks actually understand any of the historical context here? You do realise that the tenements were privately owned, not state owned, right? And you do realise that Dublin Corporation (City Countil) forcefully acquired all of them by compulsory purchase, razed them to the ground, and built high density social housing where they used to stand, right?

The ignorance of Irish history on display in this thread is absurd.

So they bought a few houses because they were in dangerous condition and people were living in them. That’s not the same as you are advocating Comrade.

McMurphy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Disgusting to see that criminal Margaret cash given air time on RTnews earlier

RTE giving criminals airtime?

The whole country's gone to hell in a hand cart:pac:

Yer Da sells Avon

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Again why?

You overdid it with the 'contributing to society' bit.

Wheeliebin30

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

RTE giving criminals airtime?

The whole country's gone to hell in a hand cart:pac:

Nice twist.

I take it you support Ms Cash and her burglar fella?

Oh and she is a criminal too.

Wheeliebin30

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

You overdid it with the 'contributing to society' bit.

Ahhhhhhhh:)

Once again, I paid 21,000 tax last year, how much did these morons pay?

Corporation tax around 3k.

What about yourself?

hatrickpatrick

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

So they bought a few houses because they were in dangerous condition and people were living in them. That’s not the same as you are advocating Comrade.

A few houses?

Last time I checked, the entire neighbourhoods of Crumlin, Drimnagh, Dolphin's Barn, Gloucester Diamond, Killarney Court, Mercer Street, Cuffe Street, three large areas in Summerhill and dozens of others which I'd be happy to list for you, counted as more than just "a few houses". Not all of them were tenements, but all of them were acquired by compulsory purchase, cleared, and used to build fully council-owned estates.

All Seeing Eye

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

A few houses?

Last time I checked, the entire neighbourhoods of Crumlin, Drimnagh, Dolphin's Barn, Gloucester Diamond, Killarney Court, Mercer Street, Cuffe Street, three large areas in Summerhill and dozens of others which I'd be happy to list for you, counted as more than just "a few houses". Not all of them were tenements, but all of them were acquired by compulsory purchase, cleared, and used to build fully council-owned estates.

Anyway we already did a compulsory purchase a few years back it was called Nama. So we then sold these lands and properties on to private companies at a theoretical profit. So are you saying that we should now do another compulsory purchase of the stuff we just sold wasting more tax payers money as I’m sure the prices will be considerably higher. Sounds like shyster stuff from you.

hmmm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I wasn't next nor near it today (city or protest), (the life of the self employed eh) but it would appear to me that it's keeping the issue fresh on people's minds, and highlighting it.

The only thing they are highlighting is how much contempt they have for people who are trying to earn a living, and are probably paying a mortgage. Sitting down and blocking a main artery of the city so they can get a few headlines for themselves.

We go through this every year from hard left groups, and it's well past time the guards stopped indulging this.

tigger123

The housing issue is starting to reach a tipping point. We can expect more and more of these types of protests as it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Things are getting steadily worse for large sections of society as the economy overall performs better and better. It's only natural that people start to fight back.

Wheeliebin30

tigger123 wrote: »

The housing issue is starting to reach a tipping point. We can expect more and more of these types of protests as it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Things are getting steadily worse for large sections of society as the economy overall performs better and better. It's only natural that people start to fight back.

Large sections?

Any links etc to this claim?

tigger123

hmmm wrote: »

The only thing they are highlighting is how much contempt they have for people who are trying to earn a living, and are probably paying a mortgage. Sitting down and blocking a main artery of the city so they can get a few headlines for themselves.

We go through this every year from hard left groups, and it's well past time the guards stopped indulging this.

They blocked traffic ffs. People have a right to protest.

Brendan Bendar

hmmm wrote: »

The only thing they are highlighting is how much contempt they have for people who are trying to earn a living. Sitting down and blocking a main artery of the city so they can get a few headlines for themselves.

We go through this every year from hard left groups, and it's well past time the guards stopped indulging this.

They won’t be caught hole open like they were in Jobbo, hmmm.

That’s for sure.They have learned their lesson.

Freddo tells you that.

hmmm

tigger123 wrote: »

They blocked traffic ffs. People have a right to protest.

They didn't block "traffic". They are blocking the ability of people to move, and at the times they have chosen they are largely blocking the ability of workers to get home.

tigger123

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Large sections?

Any links etc to this claim?

From Cso.ie, referring to the 2016 census-

"Rented accommodation has continued its upward trend with 497,111 households renting, an increase of 4.7 per cent on 2011. This meant that renting was the tenure status for almost 30 per cent of all of occupied dwellings in the last census."