Plunge saw

seannash

Me again (Seems like I'm starting a lot of threads lately)
I've been torn between the idea of a table saw or a plunge saw and decided to go the plunge saw route.
Ive been looking up a few reviews and I've decided on either the Makita SP6000J1 or the much cheaper Titan plunge saw.


If I went for the Titan I would purchase a Makita guide and a new and better blade.Total of that idea would be about €220 - €250 euros
Cost of the Makita would be about €370


I'll only be using it to make straight cuts so I'm thinking the Titan would be better.
Anyone ever use a Titan?

BarryD2

Maybe I'm wrong but are a table saw and a plunge saw not two quite different things?

As I understand it, a plunge saw is a variant on the handheld circular saw. Is that right?

Quite different from a standard table saw.

Sorry, don't know anything about above models. Have a Hitachi handheld circular saw which has served well for rough cutting for years. But if I wanted to do anything with a bit more accuracy etc., I'd used a table saw.

seannash

BarryD2 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but are a table saw and a plunge saw not two quite different things?

As I understand it, a plunge saw is a variant on the handheld circular saw. Is that right?

Quite different from a standard table saw.

Sorry, don't know anything about above models. Have a Hitachi handheld circular saw which has served well for rough cutting for years. But if I wanted to do anything with a bit more accuracy etc., I'd used a table saw.

Yes and no.
Both a table saw and a plunge saw are used for doing long straight cuts in sheeted wood. A plunge saw I guess would be considered a cleaner cut than a table saw and probably more accurate as it runs along a track.


Its similar to a circular saw but different applications I guess, circular saw would be considered rougher and less accurate. Not sure it can run on a rail although I'm sure there are rails out there that will support them

BarryD2

You're still talking a hand held portable saw, no? Can see how that'd be more portable and easier to carry to sites etc.

But surely not as accurate as a table or bench saw, where you can set up fences etc. e.g. https://jebbtools.ie/collections/table-saws/products/charnwood-w629-10-cast-iron-table-saw

seannash

BarryD2 wrote: »

You're still talking a hand held portable saw, no? Can see how that'd be more portable and easier to carry to sites etc.

But surely not as accurate as a table or bench saw, where you can set up fences etc. e.g. https://jebbtools.ie/collections/table-saws/products/charnwood-w629-10-cast-iron-table-saw

Basically yes but it doesn't splinter the wood. It basically gives you a finish edge due to running on the track.
Kinda like a belt sander and a palm sander. They both sand but one is more precise than the other.


The table saw whilst it can be accurate is at the mercy of the person feeding it into the machine as well as being awkward to rip down 8ft boards on your own. It also can make very precise beveled cuts across the sheets.
None of those are impossible on a table saw but for my budget and space I think the tracksaw will be more accurate and better

Its hard to explain but when I weighed up the options the track saw seemed a better fit for me to rip lenghts of wood.


Here a video somewhat explaining the benefits and one kinda showing it in use. You might not believe its better than the table saw but for me its cheaper and easier to handle and take up less space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJDxuM7EHg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2xFjdsrbqU

BarryD2

seannash wrote: »

Here a video somewhat explaining the benefits and one kinda showing it in use. You might not believe its better than the table saw but for me its cheaper and easier to handle and take up less space.

Very good - I can sure see the benefits if it's mostly large sheet materials you're cutting. I had to build a little table extension to support wider pieces for my table saw. But I don't cut these large sheets much, so tend to just lay them down on some pallets and use a portable circ saw with a batten guide the odd time it needs to be done. The track/ plunge saw would do this job better, that's for sure.

A standard table saw is great for many other operations with smaller timber, partic where repeatability is desired.

seannash

BarryD2 wrote: »

Very good - I can sure see the benefits if it's mostly large sheet materials you're cutting. I had to build a little table extension to support wider pieces for my table saw. But I don't cut these large sheets much, so tend to just lay them down on some pallets and use a portable circ saw with a batten guide the odd time it needs to be done. The track/ plunge saw would do this job better, that's for sure.

A standard table saw is great for many other operations with smaller timber, partic where repeatability is desired.

In a perfect world I'd love both but as I'm on a budget and tight for space I think this might be a better approach for now.
Trying to cover most bases with my setup.
So far I have a compund mitre saw, Jigsaw, circular saw, router and random orbit sander as well as the cordless drill and bits and bobs.
I'll be picking up a track saw and router table. I have a counter top to sand, cut and clean up before install and I'll be attempting to make wooden shutters as well as a few other bits and bobs.
After that who knows what I'll need or want but those are the most pressing ones right now.

I'd nearly recommend a table saw and a blade upgrade for your circular saw if that's the case. I think it's a different thing entirely if you're ripping a load of sheet materials regularly, of if you're going to use it as part of an MFT or Parf type setup, but a table saw will beat it hands down for a hell of a lot of jobs.

I've been looking at tracksaws myself recently and while there's some good value even towards the lower end of the market for occasional use (Scheppach PL55 for example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCHEPPACH-PL55-PLUNGE-CUT-SAW-WITH-2-X-700MM-GUIDE-TRACK-24Z-TCT-BLADE-240V/322721317127?hash=item4b23b08107:g:u7YAAOSwCGVX4VxW)#shpCntId#shId, there's an awful lot of things you could do to a high standard with a decent Freud blade for your circular saw (appropriate to material you're cutting) and an aluminium straight edge.

I'd go with something like a halfway decent 10-12" compact table saw, a Freud blade for that and for your circular saw and even something like a 3m level to ensure a straight edge for your circ to run against. Just food for thought.

seannash

JayZeus wrote: »

I'd nearly recommend a table saw and a blade upgrade for your circular saw if that's the case. I think it's a different thing entirely if you're ripping a load of sheet materials regularly, of if you're going to use it as part of an MFT or Parf type setup, but a table saw will beat it hands down for a hell of a lot of jobs.

I've been looking at tracksaws myself recently and while there's some good value even towards the lower end of the market for occasional use (Scheppach PL55 for example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCHEPPACH-PL55-PLUNGE-CUT-SAW-WITH-2-X-700MM-GUIDE-TRACK-24Z-TCT-BLADE-240V/322721317127?hash=item4b23b08107:g:u7YAAOSwCGVX4VxW)#shpCntId#shId, there's an awful lot of things you could do to a high standard with a decent Freud blade for your circular saw (appropriate to material you're cutting) and an aluminium straight edge.

I'd go with something like a halfway decent 10-12" compact table saw, a Freud blade for that and for your circular saw and even something like a 3m level to ensure a straight edge for your circ to run against. Just food for thought.

Ill be cutting a solid iroko countertop so I don't think ill be relying on my circular saw for that even with a blade upgrade. It'll probably do the job but I want to be 100% sure (paranoid I know)
As for the table saw, I can't see a situation where the track saw would t allow me to make the cuts a table saw would. Fair enough if it's repeated cuts the table saw will be quicker but I don't think if have the space for it, especially as I'm on my own

Out of interest what plunge saws were you looking at?

woodturner

How about something like this?

woodturner

At least with the above set up you can make a rail 8' long.

seannash

woodturner wrote: »

At least with the above set up you can make a rail 8' long.

You can combine the two tracks for it to span over 8ft.
Don't get me wrong, I've ripped sheets with my circular saw up against a straight edge. I know it can be done, I guess I'm looking for something a bit more certain for the cut. Perhaps ill buy the new blade and make some test cuts to see if that in my circular saw will suffice.
I just have a feeling for the repeated cuts required for the blinds ill want a track saw.

woodturner

Using the home made rail above gives very good results. I was just suggesting this as you'd be better off investing in a tablesaw which would be much stronger are more capable of ripping hardwoods

seannash

seannash wrote: »

Out of interest what plunge saws were you looking at?

Ready for a long answer? :pac:

I looked at the Scheppach's (a couple of 55 models), the DeWalt 520 and one of the Makita models, can't remember the specific model. I've all but decided to go with something a little different though.

My 'main' circular saw is an old donkey, so don't laugh, it's done everything I've wanted up to now. It's a 1970's Black & Decker HD1000 my father in law gave me 10 years ago, fitted since with Freud Pro 184mm blades. While it's heavy and far from modern, it's been accurate in use and has done what I've wanted up to now. I have a 2.5 meter section of 10x50mm aluminium screwed to a 2.5m x 300mm x 12mm resin ply base which I used as a track of sorts and and have cut piles of baltic birch ply over the last few years. I put a layer of phenolic resin sheet (like on a decent plunge router base - find it on ebay) on the bottom of the shoe last year and it made it brilliant to use with the 'track'. It's not locked in, but it slides very easily butted against the alloy rail.

Anyway, I'm probably going to go for something that's sort of purpose built to work the way I'm used to working at this stage. I usually work in a barn or outdoors when weather permits and dust collection isn't such a concern for me, so an enclosed plunge saw isn't a necessity or big advantage.

I've had very good experience with Metabo over the years and their KSE 55 Vario Plus is likely to be what replaces the B&D setup. It'll come in around the mid-range (excluding the Festool which is way out of budget for me anyway) with a couple of meters of track. The stock fence it comes with is excellent and the one thing I'll say about Metabo gear is that I've never had to chase around for parts. I got a replacement nose roller for a 20 year old long discontinued 3" belt sander a few weeks back for 30 quid, no hassle and in within a few days of asking for it.

https://www.metabo.com/com/en/tools/sawing/circular-saws/kse-55-vario-plus-601204700-circular-saw.html

seannash

woodturner wrote: »

Using the home made rail above gives very good results. I was just suggesting this as you'd be better off investing in a tablesaw which would be much stronger are more capable of ripping hardwoods

Slowly coming around to the idea. Ill test out the new blade and see. I'd like a table saw but I still think I won't have the room for it.

seannash

JayZeus wrote: »

Ready for a long answer? :pac:

I looked at the Scheppach's (a couple of 55 models), the DeWalt 520 and one of the Makita models, can't remember the specific model. I've all but decided to go with something a little different though.

My 'main' circular saw is an old donkey, so don't laugh, it's done everything I've wanted up to now. It's a 1970's Black & Decker HD1000 my father in law gave me 10 years ago, fitted since with Freud Pro 184mm blades. While it's heavy and far from modern, it's been accurate in use and has done what I've wanted up to now. I have a 2.5 meter section of 10x50mm aluminium screwed to a 2.5m x 300mm x 12mm resin ply base which I used as a track of sorts and and have cut piles of baltic birch ply over the last few years. I put a layer of phenolic resin sheet (like on a decent plunge router base - find it on ebay) on the bottom of the shoe last year and it made it brilliant to use with the 'track'. It's not locked in, but it slides very easily butted against the alloy rail.

Anyway, I'm probably going to go for something that's sort of purpose built to work the way I'm used to working at this stage. I usually work in a barn or outdoors when weather permits and dust collection isn't such a concern for me, so an enclosed plunge saw isn't a necessity or big advantage.

I've had very good experience with Metabo over the years and their KSE 55 Vario Plus is likely to be what replaces the B&D setup. It'll come in around the mid-range (excluding the Festool which is way out of budget for me anyway) with a couple of meters of track. The stock fence it comes with is excellent and the one thing I'll say about Metabo gear is that I've never had to chase around for parts. I got a replacement nose roller for a 20 year old long discontinued 3" belt sander a few weeks back for 30 quid, no hassle and in within a few days of asking for it.

https://www.metabo.com/com/en/tools/sawing/circular-saws/kse-55-vario-plus-601204700-circular-saw.html

I'm a metabo fan also. I was looking at their mitre saws recently but ended up going with a Bosch as I got a good deal on it.
Interesting about the one you linked. Seems a good bit more expensive than the Makita ones which seem to top the polls on most reviews

Kind of coming around to just using a circular saw with a good straight edge but if it's not cutting nicely on my test cuts I think ill go back to the track saw idea.
If I splinter the counter top ill be Incredibly pissed 😂

seannash

And then I go and read something like this and I'm sold on them again ðŸ˜

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/more/rail-guided-saws

seannash

seannash wrote: »

I'm a metabo fan also. I was looking at their mitre saws recently but ended up going with a Bosch as I got a good deal on it.
Interesting about the one you linked. Seems a good bit more expensive than the Makita ones which seem to top the polls on most reviews

I don't think the Metabo would be listed in those reviews because it's a kind of hybrid, not a purely plunge/track saw configuration.

I looked at the Metabo locally, but it's available from Germany in the kit with the saw, track section and system container for €400 landed to Ireland. Not cheap, but I expect based on my experience with half a dozen Metabo corded tools at the moment, good value in a long term tool investment.

That bit of flexibility to be able throw it into rough work every now and then in a familiar circular saw format is attractive also. Along with my Makita 2704 with the pull out extensions and a used Scheppach Basa3 bandsaw I picked up last summer, it would see me all set for probably the rest of my days as an enthusiastic hobby worker. That's how I'm looking at it.

If you're careful and set up the cut properly, I don't see how you'd bugger up your worktop as long as you fit the right blade (spend on it - I don't know if you realise how big a difference a top quality coated blade can make on even a mediocre saw?) and lock down the saw and control your 'feed' speed. If you're confident in your layout ability, you could fence the cut using the straight edge and score cut one side before flipping the top to mate the cut from underneath. In truth, if you can't trust yourself to do that, maybe a new saw alone isn't going to help ensure a better result, if you know what I mean.

seannash

seannash wrote: »

And then I go and read something like this and I'm sold on them again ðŸ˜

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tools/reviews/more/rail-guided-saws

Show me a man with money in his pocket and I'll find him something he'll want to buy.

Hidalgo

DeWalt have a regular circular saw with a track/groove in the baseplate. This sits into a DeWalt track but as opposed to the plunge saw it will do regular cutting also. Might be worth a look, think the saw itself is about €170-200 with the rail/track another €120ish.

You might get more use or value out of this setup??

seannash

JayZeus wrote: »

If you're careful and set up the cut properly, I don't see how you'd bugger up your worktop as long as you fit the right blade (spend on it - I don't know if you realise how big a difference a top quality coated blade can make on even a mediocre saw?) and lock down the saw and control your 'feed' speed. If you're confident in your layout ability, you could fence the cut using the straight edge and score cut one side before flipping the top to mate the cut from underneath. In truth, if you can't trust yourself to do that, maybe a new saw alone isn't going to help ensure a better result, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the reply. I definitely don't doubt my abilities. Like I said ill try the better blade and see then.

seannash

JayZeus wrote: »

Show me a man with money in his pocket and I'll find him something he'll want to buy.

Very true ðŸ˜

quietsailor

I bought the DeWalt a few months back as we had moved into a new house and needed a lot of shelves and cases made out of chip board. I also had one of the Kreg shelf peg jigs so I thought I was sorted. In reality its a sod to get the holes lined up on all four sides. If you think you'll be making a lot of adjustable shelves look at the Bosch ra32 rails. They have the holes spaced at 32mm that you can combine with a router adaptor that has a spring loaded pin to make precise sets of shelf holes

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-800mm-Guide-Rail-32mm-Hole-Spacing-RA32/311555284081?epid=1929199525&hash=item488a245c71:g:PKgAAOSwR6RaBIsQ

It does mean going to an expensive professional system over a lower cost one


Also, in an act of complete heresy 😀 I cut my 1.5m track into 2 X 750mm tracks as nearly everything so far has been narrow. Its surprisingly useful so if you have the chance get a damaged/shop soiled track to cut in two short ones buy it. I risked this as I got the track cheaper as it was a shop soiled, I don't know if I'd have done that on a full price one but it worked out well for me. A long 2.6m track to rip full sheets and smaller ones for day to day work.

The angle attachments for any of the rails look nice but I've used a normal digital protractor with a straight edge to set up track the very few times I've needed an angle cut. You could use the savings on this to justify the extra cost of the ra32 rail ðŸ˜

furandfeather

seannash wrote: »

You can combine the two tracks for it to span over 8ft.
Don't get me wrong, I've ripped sheets with my circular saw up against a straight edge. I know it can be done, I guess I'm looking for something a bit more certain for the cut. Perhaps ill buy the new blade and make some test cuts to see if that in my circular saw will suffice.
I just have a feeling for the repeated cuts required for the blinds ill want a track saw.

If your going cutting 8 ft lengths then I'd recommend getting the full length track. The joined ones are just not consistent I find. It's a great tool all the same