IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

Box09

orm0nd wrote:

yep but you had a person follow them down the line ( in some cases maybe yourself)

orm0nd wrote:

yep but you had a person follow them down the line ( in some cases maybe yourself)

orm0nd wrote:

I used to send a lot of lambs to the same factory, & know damn well I got jocked more than once , last instance took the biscuit with cull ewes.

100% true. As a part time sheep farmer I can't hang around a large factory in south east following them up the line. Plenty of instances where I have questioned the kill outs matched to tags. They know who and how to fiddle and are at it frequently.

wrangler

Box09 wrote: »

100% true. As a part time sheep farmer I can't hang around a large factory in south east following them up the line. Plenty of instances where I have questioned the kill outs matched to tags. They know who and how to fiddle and are at it frequently.

We pulled them up a couple of times over wrong tag Nos and it improved, At least we'd get to match tags and weight, most farmers don't care so they don't bother getting it right,
We use electronic tags now and its much better.

wrangler

orm0nd wrote: »

yep but you had a person follow them down the line ( in some cases maybe yourself)



I used to send a lot of lambs to the same factory, & know damn well I got jocked more than once , last instance took the biscuit with cull ewes.



going a different road now so far no complaints.

Have you tried our group, 5.20 for Us last week and you'd have someone following them up the line.......depots in Kilkenny, laoise, most midlands, suppliers come from all over

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Just losing patience with the niggly little complaints, Base Price hasn't even asked the county rep in three years yet keeps on and on about nothing.
FFS Dept did 660 inspections last year, they got 21 overtrims in 50000 carcases, not exactly a crime spree, I shouldn't have to transcribe the journal here anyway. It just seems to be open season on IFA here, but the shooters have precious little ammo.
I can tell you not all farmers have the high moral ground either

Firstly I don't think it's a niggly little complaint. As a staunch IFA member and supporter I accept that you don't take kindly when the organisation is criticised in any way.

TBH I never thought of asking the county rep and if I did, I wouldn't have as I firmly believed there was a conflict of interest between factories and the IFA over the collection of levies.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Firstly I don't think it's a niggly little complaint. As a staunch IFA member and supporter I accept that you don't take kindly when the organisation is criticised in any way.

TBH I never thought of asking the county rep and if I did, I wouldn't have as I firmly believed there was a conflict of interest between factories and the IFA over the collection of levies.

FFS, I doubt if your County gives sh...e about IFA finances no more than I ever did. Many times I told you, when we go broke we'll go home

Aravo

wrangler wrote:

Big help to know their weight, ewes would kill out nearly 50% of their empty weight' It was lovely to see all the lambs dagged last week in the factory, just shows that the stick works better than the carrot sometimes, lambs were wet alright but no hassle.....and more farmers are putting them in overnight as well. I was told the coordinator clipped a few lambs the week before. there was two chances of me clipping anything this week....slim and none

Who decides on clipping charges and the category given A, B or C. Is it the factory or the dept personnel working in the factory.

wrangler

Aravo wrote: »

Who decides on clipping charges and the category given A, B or C. Is it the factory or the dept personnel working in the factory.

They're clipping the bellies on everything, they're charging 20c for that, if they're bad the farmer pays for whatever needs to be done, shearing etc, Department Vet decides that. Dag their tailends and fast them before transport and you'll avoid some of the hassle
I've seen some rejected coming in too

Aravo

wrangler wrote:

They're clipping the bellies on everything, they're charging 20c for that, if they're bad the farmer pays for whatever needs to be done, shearing etc, Department Vet decides that. Dag their tailends and fast them before transport and you'll avoid some of the hassle I've seen some rejected coming in too

I dagged everything. Checked bellies and trimmed here where applicable. Fasted from night before on straw bedding. Straw on trailer. Low and behold everything is Cat B, 25c fee.

wrangler

Aravo wrote: »

I dagged everything. Checked bellies and trimmed here where applicable. Fasted from night before on straw bedding. Straw on trailer. Low and behold everything is Cat B, 25c fee.

As I say, everything is clipped on the belly and charged for, the shearers are there all the time so it has to be worth their while too.......don't know what they get

Base price

I'll post this here rather than the beef price tracker thread.

Irrespective of how good the standards of animal welfare in Ireland are vis a vie live exports if this vote passes (in its current form) it will have a detrimental effect on our beef industry. Prices are bad enough at the minute.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/align-third-country-standards-or-ban-live-exports-says-eu-report-423907

amacca

Base price wrote: »

I'll post this here rather than the beef price tracker thread.

Irrespective of how good the standards of animal welfare in Ireland are vis a vie live exports if this vote passes (in its current form) it will have a detrimental effect on our beef industry. Prices are bad enough at the minute.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/align-third-country-standards-or-ban-live-exports-says-eu-report-423907

Maybe......... as long as the stuff coming in comes from countries with aligned welfare standards.

I wonder if they will work as hard to enforce that...no feedlot, no hormone, no stress in the journey and no meat from those animals in...they should work on that too...or else **** off imo

Base price

I wonder what the IFA were doing throughout the years :rolleyes:
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-to-lift-the-lid-on-factories-424571

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I wonder what the IFA were doing throughout the years :rolleyes:
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/pressure-to-lift-the-lid-on-factories-424571

Dept won't declare the defaulters again, that's for sure.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if farmers were innocent and snow white,
Then you could stay up on the high moral ground that you think you're on

orm0nd

wrangler wrote: »

Have you tried our group, 5.20 for Us last week and you'd have someone following them up the line.......depots in Kilkenny, laoise, most midlands, suppliers come from all over

Was thinking about it. But heard that Gurteen College is no longer a collection point.

Reggie.

Was at the beef plan meeting last night and have to say there is some serious hatred for the IFA out there.

Never a member but farmers there of a ripe age and alot of breed societies there too and no one has good thing to say about it.

The societies are looking for the disbandment of the ICBF and BDG schemes (I think that's what they are). They reckon they are a disaster and the star ratings are a waste of time.

Agriland were there and some interesting stories were told that night about the dept. If the beef plan group get a chance at all then i can see them doing damage

Check this out on Agriland - Beef Plan Movement: ‘The one thing the factories would love is farmer division’

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-plan-movement-the-one-thing-the-factories-would-love-is-farmer-division/

kk.man

orm0nd wrote: »

Was thinking about it. But heard that Gurteen College is no longer a collection point.

wrangler wrote: »

Have you tried our group, 5.20 for Us last week and you'd have someone following them up the line.......depots in Kilkenny, laoise, most midlands, suppliers come from all over

Wrangler, where in Kilkenny is the depot? I would be interesting in joining. Only can do late evening drops as I am working. PM meet when you get a chance.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Was at the beef plan meeting last night and have to say there is some serious hatred for the IFA out there.

Never a member but farmers there of a ripe age and alot of breed societies there too and no one has good thing to say about it.

The societies are looking for the disbandment of the ICBF and BDG schemes (I think that's shat they are). They reckon they are a disaster and the star ratings are a waste of time.

Audio and were there and some interesting stories were told that night about the dept. If the beef plan group get a chance at all then i can see them doing damage

Check this out on Agriland - Beef Plan Movement: ‘The one thing the factories would love is farmer division’ https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-plan-movement-the-one-thing-the-factories-would-love-is-farmer-division/

Why do they bother paying their sub then, for people like me that see IFA as a direct line into government, department of AG,to improve my lot I see it as a service. Paying subs and coming out with that sort of rubbish is a bit childish.
Apparently sending out texts asking them to come to protests isn't good enough, seemingly you have to take them by the hand to protect their own incomes....childish again. Factories will love what's going on now, we were told the same years ago, but they'll just continue as usual as long as cattle come in the gate.
As for the schemes, they were proposed, you'd always do your best on them and sign off when no more could be done, but they were never compulsory.
Don't think I was ever in anything that walked farmers down a blind alley,
We turned the deal for the windmills on it's head just by asking the farmers to stop signing up, but they could always go back to the old deal, same with the road deal.
I had a problem with another large organisation, it was nice to say in a meeting ''That's not the way farmers deal with it'', they compensated me fairly quickly.
Unfortunately when people are paying subs they think they don't have to get the finger out.
This crowd have done nothing yet. whineing about factories is useless and maybe even slanderous, protesting without having a innovative way of dealing with Comp Authority will leave farmers vulnerable.
I wouldn't have patience with this carry on and always walked away when it started,'' To help someone up a ladder they have to put the first foot up themselves'' Farmers might just do it this time but I doubt it

Never had a problem with factories apart from price, so won't be getting excited this time either, OH was at a meeting yesterday hearing terrible stories about Camolin being strict on Clean Lamb Policies and their handling of it, Neither our coordinator nor ourselves who'd be there all day every Thursday seen any evidence of the reports

wrangler

Talk about double standards, It's not that long ago since the journal (and myself) used to be cricised for blaming weak sellers for poor prices now ''this crowd''are the holy grail because they're advocating hard selling...... you couldn't make it up really.,
Of course the journal was right, And so is this crowd.
Some people can be the author of their own demise

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Why do they bother paying their sub then, for people like me that see IFA as a direct line into government, department of AG,to improve my lot I see it as a service. Paying subs and coming out with that sort of rubbish is a bit childish.
Apparently sending out texts asking them to come to protests isn't good enough, seemingly you have to take them by the hand to protect their own incomes....childish again. Factories will love what's going on now, we were told the same years ago, but they'll just continue as usual as long as cattle come in the gate.
As for the schemes, they were proposed, you'd always do your best on them and sign off when no more could be done, but they were never compulsory.
Don't think I was ever in anything that walked farmers down a blind alley,
We turned the deal for the windmills on it's head just by asking the farmers to stop signing up, but they could always go back to the old deal, same with the road deal.
I had a problem with another large organisation, it was nice to say in a meeting ''That's not the way farmers deal with it'', they compensated me fairly quickly.
Unfortunately when people are paying subs they think they don't have to get the finger out.
This crowd have done nothing yet. whineing about factories is useless and maybe even slanderous, protesting without having a innovative way of dealing with Comp Authority will leave farmers vulnerable.
I wouldn't have patience with this carry on and always walked away when it started,'' To help someone up a ladder they have to put the first foot up themselves'' Farmers might just do it this time but I doubt it

Never had a problem with factories apart from price, so won't be getting excited this time either, OH was at a meeting yesterday hearing terrible stories about Camolin being strict on Clean Lamb Policies and their handling of it, Neither our coordinator nor ourselves who'd be there all day every Thursday seen any evidence of the reports

Only reporting on what was seen but like I said if they get momentum I can see them doing damage. They have alot of firepower within the group.

There were grown men in tears telling stories about the factories and the carry on of bord bia. IFA didn't want to know about any of it.

I genuinely think there is a change coming once farmers get behind them. The IFA will be redundant if that's the case. Too much vested interest with the IFA if half the stuff I heard last night is true

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Only reporting on what was seen but like I said if they get momentum I can see them doing damage. They have alot of firepower within the group.

There were grown men in tears telling stories about the factories and the carry on of bord bia. IFA didn't want to know about any of it.

I genuinely think there is a change coming once farmers get behind them. The IFA will be redundant if that's the case. Too much vested interest with the IFA if half the stuff I heard last night is true

Most of it isn't, the finance problem would be an example of how few farmer reps gave a damn about the finances. so those that think we'd be worried about the levy are talking through their......
IFA should've closed the doors in 2015, no farmer should have to take that sh..., It was never dealt with properly, I left IFA because our own County wouldn't drive it on
As for Bord Bia, I apply for QA and pass , they won't fail you for stupid things like not dosing the cats. We're producing food and it's not right to think that the once in a lifetime BPS inspections are adequate.
Bord Bia brought lots of international customers here so I know they're working in our interest. For doing that I got free passes into Bloom or lunch tickets at the ploughing.
You probably know our Livestock Rep, Donal Kenny, do you think that if you had a problem that he wouldn't follow it up. I always did, to say that we didn't want to hear was more sh... There might a few interesting revelations if those people named the reps they're slandering
We had to be very careful about what we took on

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Most of it isn't, the finance problem would be an example of how few farmer reps gave a damn about the finances. so those that think we'd be worried about the levy are talking through their......
IFA should've closed the doors in 2015, no farmer should have to take that sh..., It was never dealt with properly, I left IFA because our own County wouldn't drive it on
As for Bord Bia, I apply for QA and pass , they won't fail you for stupid things like not dosing the cats. We're producing food and it's not right to think that the once in a lifetime BPS inspections are adequate.
Bord Bia brought lots of international customers here so I know they're working in our interest. For doing that I got free passes into Bloom or lunch tickets at the ploughing.
You probably know our Livestock Rep, Donal Kenny, do you think that if you had a problem that he wouldn't follow it up. I always did, to say that we didn't want to hear was more sh... There might a few interesting revelations if those people named the reps they're slandering
We had to be very careful about what we took on

All I know is that IFA have a terrible image with farmers. Whoever's fault that is I don't know but that ain't good for any organisation

Reggie.

I rang bord bias office just now and asked them were they selling beef as quality assured even if the farmer doesn't get the qa payment for that animal, the reply was that board bia promote all Irish beef regardless of being qa and the qa payment is a factory policy and has nothing to do with board bia. I was told that the factories are a private company and can set there pricing structures anyway they want. I was also told board bia is out every day to farmers telling them they have nothing to do with the qa bonus payment. Another expamle of the factories telling farmers they need to be qa assured or they wont get to sell there beef with board bia

Info on bord bia this morning from the group

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

I rang bord bias office just now and asked them were they selling beef as quality assured even if the farmer doesn't get the qa payment for that animal, the reply was that board bia promote all Irish beef regardless of being qa and the qa payment is a factory policy and has nothing to do with board bia. I was told that the factories are a private company and can set there pricing structures anyway they want. I was also told board bia is out every day to farmers telling them they have nothing to do with the qa bonus payment. Another expamle of the factories telling farmers they need to be qa assured or they wont get to sell there beef with board bia

Info on bord bia this morning from the group

It’s a short-term game the factories are playing, sure they are making a killing at the minute but the pain and damage they are inflicting on farmers will simply lead to total disillusionment among beef farmers that will ultimately result in the next generation coming up not even contemplating taking the reins.....
The cheque in the post used to be enough to keep lads happy enough but with it been eroded every year through claw backs and inflation a point is being reached where the average beef farmer will simply just have to exit the business...
In 10 years time the beef industry and output of factories could be halved

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

It’s a short-term game the factories are playing, sure they are making a killing at the minute but the pain and damage they are inflicting on farmers will simply lead to total disillusionment among beef farmers that will ultimately result in the next generation coming up not even contemplating taking the reins.....
The cheque in the post used to be enough to keep lads happy enough but with it been eroded every year through claw backs and inflation a point is being reached where the average beef farmer will simply just have to exit the business...
In 10 years time the beef industry and output of factories could be halved

Thats the main point being put forward last night. We either fight or be forced to sell up

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

I rang bord bias office just now and asked them were they selling beef as quality assured even if the farmer doesn't get the qa payment for that animal, the reply was that board bia promote all Irish beef regardless of being qa and the qa payment is a factory policy and has nothing to do with board bia. I was told that the factories are a private company and can set there pricing structures anyway they want. I was also told board bia is out every day to farmers telling them they have nothing to do with the qa bonus payment. Another expamle of the factories telling farmers they need to be qa assured or they wont get to sell there beef with board bia

Info on bord bia this morning from the group

Bord bia promote Irish Food they don't sell it, supermarkets want QA not Bord Bia. Bord Bia is the auditing authority for QA And is respected as such.....It's really none of our business how processors sell their produce, if they specify QA you can chose not to supply them.
What do you think of that text, farmers should really try to get educated on the beef industry

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

Thats the main point being put forward last night. We either fight or be forced to sell up

Going forward planting land that’s anyway marginialvwill be the norm I’d reckon anyways, their is going to be serious returns got going this route due to bio-mass been needed at ever increasing rates due to the carbon credit issue....
Planted land here this spring through sws and it was hassle free, as they manage the forestry for the 1st 3 years

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Bord bia promote Irish Food they don't sell it, supermarkets want QA not Bord Bia. Bord Bia is the auditing authority for QA And is respected as such.....It's really none of our business how processors sell their produce, if they specify QA you can chose not to supply them.
What do you think of that text, farmers should really try to get educated on the beef industry

Main thing is bord bia do the inspection to be QA but the problem is that bord bia market the meat as QA and tge retailers sell it as QA even if the farmer doesnt get the QA payment

Reggie.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Going forward planting land that’s anyway marginialvwill be the norm I’d reckon anyways, their is going to be serious returns got going this route due to bio-mass been needed at ever increasing rates due to the carbon credit issue....
Planted land here this spring through sws and it was hassle free, as they manage the forestry for the 1st 3 years

But what after the first 3 years tho

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Main thing is bord bia do the inspection to be QA but the problem is that bord bia market the meat as QA and tge retailers sell it as QA even if the farmer doesnt get the QA payment

Text says bb is marketing it regardless of QA, Processors can market non QA product as QA but the beasts tag Nn. is on the meat and all Tesco etc. have to do is check is the farmer is QA, Our lambs go to Belgium, and when I saw ours the barcodes are half inch longer than our lambs here such is the information demanded by Delhaze supermarkets over there.
And they can DNA then if they want.......wonder did they tell you that last night.
Lookit, farmers complaining about factories specifying QA would be the same as KM whingeing about you specifying three point linkage on your tractor...... it's that important
Bass said that from O= is entitled to bonus, but it's the factories perogative what they pay on.

jaymla627

Reggie. wrote: »

But what after the first 3 years tho

You look after it yourself, very little work involved once the trees go past year 3, looking at the fiasco with collice and disputes your alot better of having control of the forestry yourself....
50% of it had to be replanted again this autumn because of drought loss with sws taking the loss on it, some talk of a compensation scheme but not guaranteed

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Text says bb is marketing it regardless of QA, Processors can market non QA product as QA but the beasts tag Nn. is on the meat and all Tesco etc. have to do is check is the farmer is QA, Our lambs go to Belgium, and when I saw ours the barcodes are half inch longer than our lambs here such is the information demanded by Delhaze supermarkets over there.
And they can DNA then if they want.......wonder did they tell you that last night.
Lookit, farmers complaining about factories specifying QA would be the same as KM whingeing about you specifying three point linkage on your tractor...... it's that important
Bass said that from O= is entitled to bonus, but it's the factories perogative what they pay on.

Well that's the thing. Factories saying you have to be QA. Bord bia inspecting for the factories and then the factories saying you don't qualify for a bonus due to their own grading machines. Now if you can't see anything wrong there with that setup.

I have no connection to any parties in this as I'm a machinery man not a cattle man but I do look at things logically and the system is rife with self interests. I just went a long to support the group.

Figures last night for margins were
farmers 20%
processers 30%
retailers 50%

The farmers margin went from approx 40% in the mid nineties to 20% today. All this under the careful watch of the government bodies and the IFA. Now we all know that if the HSE had figures like that announced then you would be the first up here looking for someone to be burned at the stake. Something terribly wrong with the IFA if they allowed that to happen.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Well that's the thing. Factories saying you have to be QA. Bord bia inspecting for the factories and then the factories saying you don't qualify for a bonus due to their own grading machines. Now if you can't see anything wrong there with that setup.

I have no connection to any parties in this as I'm a machinery man not a cattle man but I do look at things logically and the system is rife with self interests. I just went a long to support the group.

Figures last night for margins were
farmers 20%
processers 30%
retailers 50%

The farmers margin went from approx 40% in the mid nineties to 20% today. All this under the careful watch of the government bodies and the IFA. Now we all know that if the HSE had figures like that announced then you would be the first up here looking for someone to be burned at the stake. Something terribly wrong with the IFA if they allowed that to happen.

Papers full of the HSE again today, with good reason

https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/prices.aspx

You have to be realistic too, these guys have to compete on international markets, I put up france because it's near England our nearest market

It didn't work but france is substantially cheaper until the glut hit here

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Papers full of the HSE again today, with good reason

https://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/prices.aspx

You have to be realistic too, these guys have to compete on international markets, I put up france because it's near England our nearest market

It didn't work but france is substantially cheaper until the glut hit here

So it's ok that farmers steadily lost 50% of their income over the last 20 years?

Your sounding like Leo now....."proccessors have to make a profit too". Now it's not going to effect me greatly but I do believe after last night that they have plenty of a margin to give some of it back to the main producer which has the animal for up to 2.5 years

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Dept won't declare the defaulters again, that's for sure.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if farmers were innocent and snow white,
Then you could stay up on the high moral ground that you think you're on

Ah now that's a bit rich considering the IFA were collecting millions every year from the EIF levy - c. €4.7million in 2015 - when the majority of farmers were unaware of what it was for and who received 95% of the money as this information was hidden within their annual accounts

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/factory-levy-generates-up-to-half-of-ifa-income-1.2441191
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ifa-to-stick-with-current-funding-model-of-levies/

freedominacup

Reggie. wrote: »

All I know is that IFA have a terrible image with farmers. Whoever's fault that is I don't know but that ain't good for any organisation

Who do these farmers think the IFA is? Some of whst I'm hearing about these meetings puts me in mind of the opening scenes of the life of Brian. "We're definitely not the united judean people's front, we really hate those bastsrds". I'm not a beef farmer or haven't been for a number of years but there was always a scarcity of them whenever I was doing my shift at factory gates at mad o'clock on a winters morning. If the beef plan crowd are going to achieve anything they're going to need a bigger response from beef farmers than the IFA ever managed to muster.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

So it's ok that farmers steadily lost 50% of their income over the last 20 years?

Your sounding like Leo now....."proccessors have to make a profit too". Now it's not going to effect me greatly but I do believe after last night that they have plenty of a margin to give some of it back to the main producer which has the animal for up to 2.5 years

I don't care but was just pointing out our competitors are supplying cheaper than us and are as near to England as us and I know there's a lot of polish beef going into London and that's cheaper again. same as I'm clarifying BORD BIAs role in QA for you. There's no point in misleading everyone....I'm only putting up facts.
Soft selling is the main problem, sellers toughen up and the rest will fall into place

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Ah now that's a bit rich considering the IFA were collecting millions every year from the EIF levy - c. €4.7million in 2015 - when the majority of farmers were unaware of what it was for and who received 95% of the money as this information was hidden within their annual accounts

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/factory-levy-generates-up-to-half-of-ifa-income-1.2441191
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/ifa-to-stick-with-current-funding-model-of-levies/

Your 4.7m is approx €50 per member, not exactly a crime spree, Two farmers were national treasurers 2009 -2015 they should've flagged what was going on....get it, farmers. Farmers that other farmers thought they could depend on.
Any way other farmers let me down a lot worse
There was internal auditors and external auditors but nothing illegal was going on, Smith was being paid according to his initial deal. so it was up to National Treasurers to flag it
I could put up plenty here that was brought to my attention (even lately) apart from IFA that you wouldn't be proud of as a farmer but I wouldn't be that smallminded.
So get off the high moral ground

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Your 4.7m is approx €50 per member, not exactly a crime spree, Two farmers were national treasurers 2009 -2015 they should've flagged what was going on....get it, farmers. Farmers that other farmers thought they could depend on.
Any way other farmers let me down a lot worse
There was internal auditors and external auditors but nothing illegal was going on, Smith was being paid according to his initial deal. so it was up to National Treasurers to flag it
I could put up plenty here that was brought to my attention (even lately) apart from IFA that you wouldn't be proud of as a farmer but I wouldn't be that smallminded.
So get off the high moral ground

Ah now wrangler IMO you are trying to fudge the issue and play politics with the figures which I'm not surprised about. If you cared to read the links that I posted you would see that the Irish Times published 2015 income figures of €12.9 million for the IFA of which at least €4.7million (possibly more) was derived directly from the levy.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108790497&postcount=105

To date, I've never seen the IFA refuting such newspaper or online articles.
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/legality-of-ifa-levy-collection-drawn-into-question-again-35420324.html

farawaygrass

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Ah now wrangler IMO you are trying to fudge the issue and play politics with the figures which I'm not surprised about. If you cared to read the links that I posted you would see that the Irish Times published 2015 income figures of €12.9 million for the IFA of which at least €4.7million (possibly more) was derived directly from the levy.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108790497&postcount=105

To date, I've never seen the IFA refuting such newspaper or online articles.
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/legality-of-ifa-levy-collection-drawn-into-question-again-35420324.html

Look, if you don't want to pay it don't, even the full 12.9m is shag all, it was a mistake to trust the treasurers full stop. bloody farmers, do you never make mistakes, from what I see here you make plenty, membership cost a miserable amount of money, it's where it is because there's farmers working in your interest for very poor expenses, if they claimed them and got paid properly it'd cost a lot more.
When the problem broke there was €2m in unclaimed expenses, and saddos on here say we're money grabbing. ffs
Any one with above average BPS, and if you did anywork at all during the reference years drystock farmers have and are coining it because of the way IFA protected it, getting thousands in every year and worrying about a mealy amount of money, you're not doing yourself any favours....... well I can lease my entitlements out for near 20000/yr and you're a drystock farmer and I'd guess you've more than me

wrangler

farawaygrass wrote: »

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

They're doing nothing until they have 40000...will we live that long :rolleyes:

CloughCasey1

wrangler wrote: »

They're doing nothing until they have 40000...will we live that long :rolleyes:

They....... Are you sure you aren't Cormac Healy in sheeps clothing???
Dont belittle us beef farmers please now rangler.
You are spouting ****e for last month and running down any idea that is being proposed. You are going around with the i ****e marmalade and fart perfum attitude on here for too long. You havent come up with one logical counter proposal during that whole time bar pulling of finished stock which will only cause more finiancial loss to a selection of farmers who are struggling to make ends meet as it is. Now if this means i get another warning from the leave poor rangler alone mod brigade i couldnt give a flying fcuk. Either be part of the solution or get your IFA loving arse out of this thread and any other thread related to beef production.

Mod note.... Play the ball and not the man. As a poster here you don't get to say who posts in this or any other thread. None of us have that luxury. Keep it clean, civil and above the belt. Any more of this standard of posting will result in infractions being issued. For what it's worth there's no brigade here, we do what we do to keep the forum running as smooth as we can. Brewing up a ****storm for us to deal with doesn't help. Thanks. GC.

CloughCasey1

farawaygrass wrote: »

I’m supportive of the Ifa and the beef plan but have issues moreso with the beef plan. I don’t understand their aggression towards the Ifa. On it has nothing to do with their long term aim. Also giving out about dairy farmers is only alienating them. It’s not up to them to put the best beef bulls to their cows. The only way to make them do that is to reflect it in the price paid. I don’t think farmers understand how tied the Ifas hands are. The competition authority need to feel pressure to conduct inspections in the factories/retailers, and the only way to do that is to hound your local TDs. 86 points is crazy too. 12-15 points is loads and know them inside out so you can debate with anyone.
Now saying all that, the Ifa still haven’t recovered from the scandal and it will be hard to do so. It’s also understandable how they are seen as more a dairy organisation-the higher up in the organisation is more dairy farmers. One thing for the Ifa in my experience is they have contacts and know the rules and will help sort an issue if it’s not correct. If they lose their influence then it’s a bad day for farmers full stop.
The beef plan should be supported by everyone, and I will attend a meeting, if it gets something done then it benefits us all. I have two reservations though.
1. There are a lot more bigger farms/feedlots/winter finishers with big numbers of cattle now than say in the 90’s. If there is a big price rise in beef, it’s these big guys thst’ll Really win. And it will be a bittersweet victory for the small guy, he got what he wanted but still envious of the big guy.
2. I would have expected the beef plan membership to be a lot closer to 40k by now. To get 10k more will be harder, and harder again to get another 10k. I wish them well though.

Good post. Very constructive and no BS. I dont agree with the dairy guy taking a beating either. He/she has to run their business also the best way possible. To be fair to the attitude towards the IFA is fair enough in my opinion. They have done sweet feck all for our side of the industry over the past number of years. Everything has been geared towards the expansion of dairy and the promotion of same. No shame in that either...BUT... beef farmers feel that they have been ignored. The IFA could and should have pushed a lot harder for transparency of the grading and trimming systems. They have taken enough out of our pockets through levies over the last number of years that they should have had their finger on the pulse. Its taken so much of a distrust in the IFA for beef farmers to start this movement. If nothing else beef farmers deserve a voice and if this is the start of it well im 100% behind it. A1 GC i will play the ball from now on. Hopefully he is holding it the next time.

wrangler

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

They....... Are you sure you aren't Cormac Healy in sheeps clothing???
Dont belittle us beef farmers please now rangler.
You are spouting ****e for last month and running down any idea that is being proposed. You are going around with the i ****e marmalade and fart perfum attitude on here for too long. You havent come up with one logical counter proposal during that whole time bar pulling of finished stock which will only cause more finiancial loss to a selection of farmers who are struggling to make ends meet as it is. Now if this means i get another warning from the leave poor rangler alone mod brigade i couldnt give a flying fcuk. Either be part of the solution or get your IFA loving arse out of this thread and any other thread related to beef production.

Mod note.... Play the ball and not the man. As a poster here you don't get to say who posts in this or any other thread. None of us have that luxury. Keep it clean, civil and above the belt. Any more of this standard of posting will result in infractions being issued. For what it's worth there's no brigade here, we do what we do to keep the forum running as smooth as we can. Brewing up a ****storm for us to deal with doesn't help. Thanks. GC.

If it's open season on IFA, it's open season on everyone, It's common knowledge that dairy farmers manned the beef protests,In 2000 four of us blocked kilbeggan the first morning of the protest, I doubt if this new crowd have the balls for that. I've put up so many examples of this.. I've recommended hard selling and withdrawing stock because it is the only solution, whingeing about factory feedlots is a joke, no one owes you a living, Why not put parttime farmers out of farming as well, they're probably making you pay too much in the marts. Like with BASE price, I imagine you have damn good entitlements if your farm was doing anything at all in the reference years. against all the odds IFA protected those and rightly so, yet you complain and no gratitude, they're supposed to compensate for the poor price of beef, you ca't have it both ways.
Attacking Bord bia in yesterdays text was another joke, just shows they haven't a clue .
When I became Co Chairman, I said if I don't have support I'm gone and I went. Maybe the worms will turn this time, but complaining about IFA when they'll do nothing for them selves is another joke

If this crowd aren't going to withdraw stock like they said at the start they are just on an ego trip and weak with it, time to get off your arse
I'm telling you the way it is, you'd do well to heed it

Reggie.

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Good post. Very constructive and no BS. I dont agree with the dairy guy taking a beating either. He/she has to run their business also the best way possible. To be fair to the attitude towards the IFA is fair enough in my opinion. They have done sweet feck all for our side of the industry over the past number of years. Everything has been geared towards the expansion of dairy and the promotion of same. No shame in that either...BUT... beef farmers feel that they have been ignored. The IFA could and should have pushed a lot harder for transparency of the grading and trimming systems. They have taken enough out of our pockets through levies over the last number of years that they should have had their finger on the pulse. Its taken so much of a distrust in the IFA for beef farmers to start this movement. If nothing else beef farmers deserve a voice and if this is the start of it well im 100% behind it. A1 GC i will play the ball from now on. Hopefully he is holding it the next time.

Can't speak for any other meetings but the mullingar one had no dairy bashing in it. Only gripe was the government organisation's push for dairy expansion which flooded the factories with the AAx and the likes

CloughCasey1

wrangler wrote: »

If it's open season on IFA, it's open season on everyone, It's common knowledge that dairy farmers manned the beef protests,In 2000 four of us blocked kilbeggan the first morning of the protest, I doubt if this new crowd have the balls for that. I've put up so many examples of this.. I've recommended hard selling and withdrawing stock because it is the only solution, whingeing about factory feedlots is a joke, no one owes you a living, Why not put parttime farmers out of farming as well, they're probably making you pay too much in the marts. Like with BASE price, I imagine you have damn good entitlements if your farm was doing anything at all in the reference years. against all the odds IFA protected those and rightly so, yet you complain and no gratitude, they're supposed to compensate for the poor price of beef, you ca't have it both ways.
Attacking Bord bia in yesterdays text was another joke, just shows they haven't a clue .
When I became Co Chairman, I said if I don't have support I'm gone and I went. Maybe the worms will turn this time, but complaining about IFA when they'll do nothing for them selves is another joke

If this crowd aren't going to withdraw stock like they said at the start they are just on an ego trip and weak with it, time to get off your arse
I'm telling you the way it is, you'd do well to heed it

Dont buy in the marts
Dont get entitlememts either
Bord Bia = QA
All farmers that finish cattle and are bord bia approved should get the 12c with no exception.

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Can't speak for any other meetings but the mullingar one had no dairy bashing in it. Only gripe was the government organisation's push for dairy expansion which flooded the factories with the AAx and the likes

Farmers chasing the money brought the dairy expansion, beef farmers competing with exporters into unviable prices brought the dairy beef to irish factories.
Expecting dairy farmers to use anything only the best dairy genetics isn't realistic

wrangler

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Dont buy in the marts
Dont get entitlememts either
Bord Bia = QA
All farmers that finish cattle and are bord bia approved should get the 12c with no exception.

Very easy give 12c on every QA animal if they drop the base price by 6c. all this is just window dressing, your main problem is they won't enter into negotiations and guess how you initiate that.

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Farmers chasing the money brought the dairy expansion, beef farmers competing with exporters into unviable prices brought the dairy beef to irish factories.
Expecting dairy farmers to use anything only the best dairy genetics isn't realistic

Not really I know many dairy farmers around you who teasgac are telling to expand as they have too much silage it SR is too low. They are refusing as they say it makes no sense but the issue is constantly pushed. Alot of lads levelling off at 100 cows

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

Very easy give 12c on every QA animal if they drop the base price by 6c. all this is just window dressing, your main problem is they won't enter into negotiations and guess how you initiate that.

You become an entity that they are as an equal genre the 40 000 number. I'd say give the beef plan lads a shot and see how they get on.

I think certain lads are afraid they will be successful hence that will show up any organisation's that went before for what they are.