Deposit not returned for room booking

confuse1298

Hi

I booked a room in a pub and paid a deposit for it. There was no additional payments and the manager said I will get my deposit back after the event if no rules are broken.

The day went well and after the event, I requested the deposit back. Manager said he couldn't give deposit back but offered to give a voucher that is worth the same as deposit. Voucher can only be spent in the pub.

He never told me that the deposit was to be returned in the form of a voucher.

Aren't deposits meant to be returned in their original state i.e cash or electronic?

Is this legal? I am pretty upset at this as I have never signed anything and he orginially told me I will get my deposit back.

What could I do?

L1011

How much was the deposit?

If the payment was in cash or cash equivalent (card) it is normal to expect the return to be the same. Would look at Small Claims if the deposit is significant enough.

If the pub is in a chain (rare in rural areas, common in Dublin) I'd contact the head office as there could be someone trying to protect sales figures rather than actually do their job properly here.

confuse1298

It isn't a chain but a pretty popular area in the city.

The manager actually told me to come in another day as he was too busy to issue the voucher. It was a card payment.

L1011

Two if-all-else-fails options here - €250 is enough to do small claims in my opinion. You lose the €20 fee and a morning in the court if they refuse to pay up when the court papers arrive.

You could also attempt a card chargeback with your bank. This may not be succesful.

Turning up at a quieter time and being politely forceful with the manager could still work.

confuse1298

Is it legal to refund a deposit in voucher or a service?

I tried looking around the consumer laws but no where does it say that a deposit must be refunded in original form.

Sleeper12

confuse1298 wrote:

The manager actually told me to come in another day as he was too busy to issue the voucher. It was a card payment.

Claimback on the card perhaps? Or is it called chargeback?

L1011

confuse1298 wrote: »

Is it legal to refund a deposit in voucher or a service?

I tried looking around the consumer laws but no where does it say that a deposit must be refunded in original form.

A security deposit refunded as a voucher is effectively forcing you to spend further and would not be acceptable.

confuse1298

It's ridiculous.

I will visit the pub again tomorrow and threaten to take the business to the Small Claims court. I'll bring my mate as he was there as well.

Is there anything else I could say? He said the voucher doesn't have an expiry date.

CeilingFly

You don't need the small claims court, you simply do a charge back on your card. Doesn't matter whether it's debit or credit card.

You have the receipt to say it was a deposit and that is sufficient.

Place will also have an additional €25 charge back charge applied and could have a flag attached to their merchant account.

confuse1298

I've never done a chargeback before.

Should I just go into my local branch and explain the situation? How would I prove the situation?

confuse1298

Also the receipt has no mention of a deposit.

L1011

You would do it by phone.

confuse1298

How would I prove the situation to the bank though?

By the way thanks for the help everyone - the €250 was meant to be used for something else...

Also the electronic payment was a month ago, will that interfere with the chargeback?

leonffrench

Chargeback on the card is very unlikely to work here as I presume you did chip and pin which puts the business at a distinct advantage. The onus is now on you to prove you didn't get what you paid for. The bar will say the payment was for the rental of the room and you can't prove otherwise. If the payment was taken over the phone then you are very likely to win and get your money back. Odd... but that's how it works

Sleeper12

confuse1298 wrote:

I've never done a chargeback before.

I'm 50 and using cards over 30 years. I've never done one either.

confuse1298

Well, the pub is offering me a voucher instead of deposit refund, which would be weird for a room rental.

leonffrench

That could form part of your case with the bank but it's still very unlikely to succeed once its chip and pin. Bad form from the pub. Only doing themselves out of future business.

confuse1298

I'll call the bank and visit the pub tomorrow. Hopefully could talk some sense into him.

Rackstar

leonffrench wrote: »

That could form part of your case with the bank but it's still very unlikely to succeed once its chip and pin. Bad form from the pub. Only doing themselves out of future business.

What’s the relevance of chip and pin?

If I go to a showroom and order a couch, pay using chip and pin credit card, the place goes bust before I get my couch. The credit card company are going to cover me regardless of using chip and pin or not.

Sleeper12

confuse1298 wrote:

I'll call the bank and visit the pub tomorrow. Hopefully could talk some sense into him.

Everyone will probably jump on me for suggesting this but if going back to the pub could you bring someone older with you? This is no reflection on you or your independence. It's just sometimes people try take advantage of someone young in this situation. They might be more reasonable with someone older standing beside you.

Just a thought

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

leonffrench wrote: »

Chargeback on the card is very unlikely to work here as I presume you did chip and pin which puts the business at a distinct advantage. The onus is now on you to prove you didn't get what you paid for. The bar will say the payment was for the rental of the room and you can't prove otherwise. If the payment was taken over the phone then you are very likely to win and get your money back. Odd... but that's how it works

Chip and pin has nothing to do with it.

confuse1298

Good idea.

The room booking was for a club so we're prepared to leave a few dozen bad reviews to the pub if no deposit tomorrow.

confuse1298

I paid using a visa debit card by the way.

twowheelsonly

Email him seeking your deposit refund in cash / chargeback.
Tell him that his offer of a refund via voucher is not acceptable to you as this was not made clear to you at the outset.
Tell him that you will be calling in next week in expectation of your refund.
Be polite and cordial.

Chances are he won't deny the offer of a voucher and may even re-iterate his stance on the issuing of a voucher.
This will give you the written proof that you need to either initiate a chargeback yourself or lodge a case with the small claims court.
Right now it's 'I said, he said' so get something in writing, even if it is a bit surreptitously.

leonffrench

Bethany Alive Manufacturer wrote:

Chip and pin has nothing to do with it.

It's my job so I know that it does

leonffrench

Rackstar wrote:

If I go to a showroom and order a couch, pay using chip and pin credit card, the place goes bust before I get my couch. The credit card company are going to cover me regardless of using chip and pin or not.

Completely different scenario

Rackstar

leonffrench wrote: »

Completely different scenario

Paying using chip and pin is paying with chip and pin.

Completely irrelevant.

Care to explain your chip and pin theory?

confuse1298

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Email him seeking your deposit refund in cash / chargeback.
Tell him that his offer of a refund via voucher is not acceptable to you as this was not made clear to you at the outset.
Tell him that you will be calling in next week in expectation of your refund.
Be polite and cordial.

Chances are he won't deny the offer of a voucher and may even re-iterate his stance on the issuing of a voucher.
This will give you the written proof that you need to either initiate a chargeback yourself or lodge a case with the small claims court.
Right now it's 'I said, he said' so get something in writing, even if it is a bit surreptitously.

Sending an email is a good idea!

ArthurG

Why wasn’t the deposit simply deducted from the final bill? That would be my expectation.

daheff

Rackstar wrote: »

Paying using chip and pin is paying with chip and pin.

Completely irrelevant.

Care to explain your chip and pin theory?

card schemes differentiate between customer present & not present payments(usually called moto). Their view is that if chip & pin are used the customer made the transaction- chargeback is less likely to be successful. If chip & pin are not used the likelihood of fraud is much higher, so onus is on merchant in most chargeback scenarios.

i was reading an article yesterday on how the moto transactions will soon require additional verification factor(eg verified by visa/biometric scanning).... which will bring moto transactions in line with cardholder present ones.

L1011

The chip and PIN element is really only relevant when claiming fraud, not something like this.