Judging a book by its cover

bobbyss

Buying a textbook. All wrapped up in plastic. €25 textbook and workbook. Nowadays it seems you may have to judge a book by its cover as some places will not open one up so you can have a browse. Anyone find this frustrating?

mtoutlemonde

bobbyss wrote: »

Buying a textbook. All wrapped up in plastic. €25 textbook and workbook. Nowadays it seems you may have to judge a book by its cover as some places will not open one up so you can have a browse. Anyone find this frustrating?

Are you a teacher???

r93kaey5p2izun

Yes I found it very frustrating. Especially with several of the book companies not providing samples because we had a rental scheme - one in particular was so rude and dismissive even though we were seeking a sample to choose a new book for the rental scheme. There's so many books out there for the core subjects outside of the big names but it's difficult to even get a look at them.

mtoutlemonde

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote: »

Yes I found it very frustrating. Especially with several of the book companies not providing samples because we had a rental scheme - one in particular was so rude and dismissive even though we were seeking a sample to choose a new book for the rental scheme. There's so many books out there for the core subjects outside of the big names but it's difficult to even get a look at them.

I've always found book reps in my area very easy to get samples from. I did find it a bit odd though two years ago to find the rep outside my door wondering if I had decided on my book yet. Another rep nearly has to be told to go - usually sits for lunch and pressure selling. I don't consider any of her companies books as a result.

bobbyss

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote:

Yes I found it very frustrating. Especially with several of the book companies not providing samples because we had a rental scheme - one in particular was so rude and dismissive even though we were seeking a sample to choose a new book for the rental scheme. There's so many books out there for the core subjects outside of the big names but it's difficult to even get a look at them.

We don't get samples either. You would imagine that the big stores would have at least ONE text/workbook available for inspection. Also the schoolboook section of my Easons is now roped off. You simply can't enter at all.

You have to ask for all the texts to be brought out but then you find they are all wrapped up. I pity the assistants trudging around the place. When did this start to happen? What is the reason for it? Has there been a massive increase in school book theft?

r93kaey5p2izun

bobbyss wrote: »

We don't get samples either. You would imagine that the big stores would have at least ONE text/workbook available for inspection. Also the schoolboook section of my Easons is now roped off. You simply can't enter at all.

You have to ask for all the texts to be brought out but then you find they are all wrapped up. I pity the assistants trudging around the place. When did this start to happen? What is the reason for it? Has there been a massive increase in school book theft?

My friend was telling me about this. I couldn't believe it! What are Easons thinking? That would really put me off going there.

r93kaey5p2izun

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I've always found book reps in my area very easy to get samples from. I did find it a bit odd though two years ago to find the rep outside my door wondering if I had decided on my book yet. Another rep nearly has to be told to go - usually sits for lunch and pressure selling. I don't consider any of her companies books as a result.

Do you have a rental scheme? Since we would have the same book indefinitely until there is a change of curriculum they see it as pointless. We have some books that are out of print nearly a decade.

evolving_doors

I just ring up and ask for samples of whatever i want. No problem. Same with all the staff.

If you're book rental possibly with small school though they might think you're unlikely to change.

TheDriver

Why would anyone go intp Easons for a browse? Samples come from publishers. I'd say they were being robbed blind or copies getting damaged.

mtoutlemonde

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote: »

Do you have a rental scheme? Since we would have the same book indefinitely until there is a change of curriculum they see it as pointless. We have some books that are out of print nearly a decade.

In some of the schools I worked in yes but never had a problem getting samples. In the school I'm in at the moment, the books are well out of date and some of them are in terrible condition. Luckily unlike in the other schools I've worked in, there is no photocopying quota so using new books for resources - I don't like it but I can't be using out of date materials.

r93kaey5p2izun

TheDriver wrote: »

Why would anyone go intp Easons for a browse? Samples come from publishers. I'd say they were being robbed blind or copies getting damaged.

Because as ready stated publishers do not give samples to all schools. Even when requested.

bobbyss

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote:

Because as ready stated publishers do not give samples to all schools. Even when requested.

Exactly so.
We are a tiny tim school and once they hear our numbers they know there's no point.

Blaizes

Some of the publishers will give you a look inside the book option.I did this with a book I was interested in buying last week.I am sorry I can't remember which site it was on.It wasn't on the publisher site thought as I have just checked now.Agree it's very frustrating and saw those books all bundled up together in Easons too, hard to buy a book without looking through it first.

r93kaey5p2izun

bobbyss wrote: »

Exactly so.
We are a tiny tim school and once they hear our numbers they know there's no point.

Mine was a large DEIS school but with book rental keeping books for 10-15 years publishers aren't interested.

AJG

I find Amazon good because it allows you to scan through the first couple chapters of school books. Although I mainly tutor GCSE subjects. I'm not sure if Irish school books are on their site??? I usually judge a book on the comprehension questions at the end of each chapter. 

But it's where I usually source most of the school books I use... but I'm not sure how applicable it is to the Irish system.

evolving_doors

Library?

rainbowtrout

Blaizes wrote: »

Some of the publishers will give you a look inside the book option.I did this with a book I was interested in buying last week.I am sorry I can't remember which site it was on.It wasn't on the publisher site thought as I have just checked now.Agree it's very frustrating and saw those books all bundled up together in Easons too, hard to buy a book without looking through it first.

Eason's target market is not teachers. It's parents buying books for their kids who are in schools that do not have a book rental scheme. So they don't need to leave them out on the shelf and can leave them wrapped in plastic. If you are a parent in to get a LC maths book you don't care about the content, you just have to buy the book on the list.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Eason's target market is not teachers. It's parents buying books for their kids who are in schools that do not have a book rental scheme. So they don't need to leave them out on the shelf and can leave them wrapped in plastic. If you are a parent in to get a LC maths book you don't care about the content, you just have to buy the book on the list.

Frustrating for teachers in Easons though. I went in to get a book for my progeny, I spotted a load of books over the next shelf that looked interesting, but when I went around to browse the aisle was blocked off. Its interesting to see a range of resources in your subject as you usually just stick to the usual reps freebies. You really need to browse through a book to see how it works. I never really get a chance for a browse in the staff room when the new books are there.

Or maybe I was more curious cos it was blocked off.

Icsics

I always get a sample copy. My issue is with the publishers interpretation of the syllabus (it's called something else now). The textbooks are really not worth buying, you'd be hard pushed to find any proper content, just lots of waffle.....i.e. new JCT!!

amacca

Icsics wrote: »

I always get a sample copy. My issue is with the publishers interpretation of the syllabus (it's called something else now). The textbooks are really not worth buying, you'd be hard pushed to find any proper content, just lots of waffle.....i.e. new JCT!!

Ive had a look at about 7/8 books on the new JC science syllabus now and while there are some similarities its amazing the difference in content both volume wise and depth of treatment wise and even more worrying specific topic area wise.

It would worry you that that many teams of people all dedicated to trying to decipher that syllabus come up with such different answers...you would imagine they put a huge amount of time into figuring out exactly what had to be covered...

The goals/intentions/oucomes etc ...whatever nonsensical buzzword the powers that be are employing now that are in this new syllabus are so vague they leave huge room for all these different interpretations and really leave a person struggling when trying to figure out what the depth of treatment should be in particular....the NCCA should have to leave it crystal clear what has to be taught imo...its just lazy to be bandying around terms like unpacking and engaging when its so poorly written that a glance reveals some of the outcomes within a branch of the syllabus could also be part of an ovearching skill like some of the skills mentioned in the nature of science part....

Then a look at some of the very scant scattering of activity sheets the JCT pages have that are specific to the subject and you find terminology in them that many textbooks have not even mentioned and you wonder are the guys that wrote it taking the piss/flying by the seat of their pants because the learning outcomes wouldn't necessarily mean using this terminology ...you could just as easily argue the textbooks got it right

Ive said it before and perhaps I'm wrong but this new syllabus is a crock of **** teachers will probably get hung out to dry for when said crock eventually connects with a fan..... despite having raised their concerns all along

or alternatively almost everyone will achieve a merit to paper over the cracks and the steaming pile of **** will be declared a success while behind the scenes it gets rewritten/revised (I'm sure they'll call it evolving or something euphimistic/soothing like that)

joebloggs32

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote: »

Mine was a large DEIS school but with book rental keeping books for 10-15 years publishers aren't interested.

That would be great craic in my subject....geography.
Economic section.......celtic tiger was still rampant 15 years ago
Regional......EU expansion to 28 was still only in the pipeline, and what the hell is Brexit!

My first years are buying a new book and workbook for €20 all in. Will do for 3 years and is up to date. Sometimes the rental schemes are a penny wise and a pound foolish.

Icsics

amacca wrote: »

Ive had a look at about 7/8 books on the new JC science syllabus now and while there are some similarities its amazing the difference in content both volume wise and depth of treatment wise and even more worrying specific topic area wise.

It would worry you that that many teams of people all dedicated to trying to decipher that syllabus come up with such different answers...you would imagine they put a huge amount of time into figuring out exactly what had to be covered...

The goals/intentions/oucomes etc ...whatever nonsensical buzzword the powers that be are employing now that are in this new syllabus are so vague they leave huge room for all these different interpretations and really leave a person struggling when trying to figure out what the depth of treatment should be in particular....the NCCA should have to leave it crystal clear what has to be taught imo...its just lazy to be bandying around terms like unpacking and engaging when its so poorly written that a glance reveals some of the outcomes within a branch of the syllabus could also be part of an ovearching skill like some of the skills mentioned in the nature of science part....

Then a look at some of the very scant scattering of activity sheets the JCT pages have that are specific to the subject and you find terminology in them that many textbooks have not even mentioned and you wonder are the guys that wrote it taking the piss/flying by the seat of their pants because the learning outcomes wouldn't necessarily mean using this terminology ...you could just as easily argue the textbooks got it right

Ive said it before and perhaps I'm wrong but this new syllabus is a crock of **** teachers will probably get hung out to dry for when said crock eventually connects with a fan..... despite having raised their concerns all along

or alternatively almost everyone will achieve a merit to paper over the cracks and the steaming pile of **** will be declared a success while behind the scenes it gets rewritten/revised (I'm sure they'll call it evolving or something euphimistic/soothing like that)

So true Amacca. I've abandoned the textbook. And I'd be afraid to give my 3rd yrs a new exam paper, if they say how easy it is they'd do no more. In fact, I gave them an 'old' exam question 2day in a bid to get some substantial work out of them, instead of waffle!

rainbowtrout

Icsics wrote: »

So true Amacca. I've abandoned the textbook. And I'd be afraid to give my 3rd yrs a new exam paper, if they say how easy it is they'd do no more. In fact, I gave them an 'old' exam question 2day in a bid to get some substantial work out of them, instead of waffle!

Is there a sample paper for the new syllabus?

bobbyss

rainbowtrout wrote:

Eason's target market is not teachers. It's parents buying books for their kids who are in schools that do not have a book rental scheme. So they don't need to leave them out on the shelf and can leave them wrapped in plastic. If you are a parent in to get a LC maths book you don't care about the content, you just have to buy the book on the list.

That's true to a point. There is a run on books at certain times of the year then things calm down. It wouldn't cost the publishers a lot to have sample copies available in Easons. Who decides which text is suitable in a school anyway?

rainbowtrout

bobbyss wrote: »

That's true to a point. There is a run on books at certain times of the year then things calm down. It wouldn't cost the publishers a lot to have sample copies available in Easons. Who decides which text is suitable in a school anyway?

The teachers teaching the subject usually.

bobbyss

rainbowtrout wrote:

The teachers teaching the subject usually.

The question was rhetorical but yes the teachers.

And it's important to have a good rummage through text and workbook. In the grand scheme of things, as I said, it wouldn't cost publishers too much to accommodate this.

rainbowtrout

bobbyss wrote: »

The question was rhetorical but yes the teachers.

And it's important to have a good rummage through text and workbook. In the grand scheme of things, as I said, it wouldn't cost publishers too much to accommodate this.

But that's why they send copies out to schools. Most teachers aren't going into Eason's to have a look at textbooks. And where do you stop? Does every bookshop in the country have to have a full range of textbooks for teachers to look through? They are not in the market to accommodate that service, they are there to sell books.

r93kaey5p2izun

Except that they don't and will not send books to all schools. Even on this small thread there's a couple of us who have had this issue. We're left to browse in Easons.

rainbowtrout

Perhaps it's worth asking for trial access online then.

mtoutlemonde

Kai Shallow Watchtower wrote: »

Except that they don't and will not send books to all schools. Even on this small thread there's a couple of us who have had this issue. We're left to browse in Easons.

Well you then tell the sales rep that you won't be considering their materials. I bet you'd get the samples then.

bobbyss

mtoutlemonde wrote:

Well you then tell the sales rep that you won't be considering their materials. I bet you'd get the samples then.

If your school is too small to warrant business, that's a bet you would lose.