Students taught wrong material

TheDriver

http://www.thejournal.ie/leaving-cert-english-error-4232595-Sep2018/

Interesting article. Although I don't understand how subject meetings minutes being emailed to principal or other suggestions are going to ensure a teachers own professional capacity.

TheValeyard

Or even how it never came up at a department meeting. Absolutely bizarre. No excuse.

myshirt

The reference to Croke park hours boils my blood. A lot in the teaching profession need to have a hard, hard look at themselves. For the rest of us, when are we going to finally step up and meet these people head on? Exhorbitant wages, toxic culture, and zero f#cks given about anyone but themselves. I can't believe this teacher referred to Croke Park hours.

TheValeyard

myshirt wrote: »

The reference to Croke park hours boils my blood. A lot in the teaching profession need to have a hard, hard look at themselves. For the rest of us, when are we going to finally step up and meet these people head on? Exhorbitant wages, toxic culture, and zero f#cks given about anyone but themselves. I can't believe this teacher referred to Croke Park hours.

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed did we?

myshirt

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed did we?

No, I didn't. This is appalling. It is fully reflective of the self serving culture across the entire teaching profession, and you guys need to reflect on that, especially on the back of the outrageous wages you are paid for the job. These kids have been let down badly. It is an abysmal failure of internal controls and governance, and it all comes back to culture and attitude. It's disgusting. Well done to the journal for calling this out.

TheDriver

In fairness, I don't understand the Croke Park thing either. There's a lot of excuses going on by sounds of it but it's a fairly serious human error. I do wonder about mocks not picking up on it either.

TheValeyard

myshirt wrote: »

No, I didn't. This is appalling. It is fully reflective of the self serving culture across the entire teaching profession, and you guys need to reflect on that, especially on the back of the outrageous wages you are paid for the job.

TheValeyard

TheDriver wrote: »

In fairness, I don't understand the Croke Park thing either. There's a lot of excuses going on by sounds of it but it's a fairly serious human error. I do wonder about mocks not picking up on it either.

Probably self corrected.

Bicycle

This isn't the first time this has happened. But it is the first time I remember it getting into the national news.

A few years ago something similar happened, also with English, in a school in Munster. If I remember correctly, it was May when the error was noticed.

dudara

Something similar happened at Regina Mundi (IIRC) years ago. It seems that it happens every so often

Seth Brundle

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Probably self corrected.

English isn't your strong subject then presumably given that it mentions marking the mocks was outsourced.

Jimbob1977

When I first saw this story, I thought it was going to be a catastrophic mistake.... like studying Macbeth instead of Romeo and Juliet.

Luckily, it was a film and it was caught in time. Commenting on a 2-hour film is a million times easier than analysing a book you've never/barely read.

It was a schoolboy error on the teacher's part, if you'll pardon the pun.

TheValeyard

Seth Brundle wrote: »

English isn't your strong subject then presumably given that it mentions marking the locks was outsourced.

Locks?

Ah the ironing is delicious

Avatar MIA

Feel sorry for the teacher.

And while it shouldn't have happened, it's unlikely to have materially affected a student's overall results. By far the greatest impact on their results were their own efforts.

It'll take a long time for her to live that down.

km79

Seth Brundle wrote: »

English isn't your strong subject then presumably given that it mentions marking the LOCKS was outsourced.

Well this is awkward
Some might say it’s kind of ironic !

km79

Blaming the lack of CP hours is absurd and a cop out . Teachers coped fine before CP hours . In fact I’d dare say they used their time more productively than sitting in circles and going for ghost walks .........

delly

And the education system says cramming doesn't work, yet this is their solution to a pretty abysmal situation, which the department say they can't take into account for marking. The effects of this could be with those students for years if it made a major change to their results.

If the department had taken ownership of the issue 6 days before, could they have put together a special paper for the class based on the wrong curriculum in that timeframe? This in my view would be the best approach and have cause for the lowest chance of a long term impact. Instead it looks like a 'you're on your own response'. You can't reverse the error, but it is the response that leaves the biggest legacy.

lalal

myshirt wrote: »

The reference to Croke park hours boils my blood. A lot in the teaching profession need to have a hard, hard look at themselves. For the rest of us, when are we going to finally step up and meet these people head on? Exhorbitant wages, toxic culture, and zero f#cks given about anyone but themselves. I can't believe this teacher referred to Croke Park hours.

Sorry can you explain those 3 scathing remarks there? Exorbitant wages? Are you aware of the 2 tier system currently in place for teachers? Toxic culture? And zero f**cks given about anyone else? Please explain.

Blaizes

About 9 years ago I was covering a maternity leave and about three weeks into the term I discovered that my Leaving Cert. higher level class had studied the wrong text also.Thankfully it was discovered early on and we were able to read the right text and work intensively on it. I was furious and so were the class.These were a top stream who needed high points for college courses.But regardless of stream it shouldn't happen.The parents raised it with me at the parent teacher meeting and were disgusted as to how this could happen.I gave the class extra classes at lunch time and because they were such an able group we got through it but it was a lot of extra pressure on them and something that should never happen - let alone in sixth year! There is zero excuse for this short of thing, it's shoddy practice, all the information is provided by the DES! I am sure that teacher I was covering for is still teaching with no consequence.I informed the school but don't know if any action was taken. This should never ever happen!!

spurious

Less of the generalisations about teachers pay/hours/etc. thanks. Usual forums rules apply here for visitors.

Will hold back on formal warnings for now (heat of moment etc.) but no more thank you.

spurious

Disgraceful that this happened at all, but how did colleagues not notice?

Why did corrector of mock papers not mention it in their report (which both mock companies require correctors to write)?

Quite a lot of questions regarding communication and subject department meetings in that school, I would say.

judeboy101

Curse of Zambia strikes again.

RealJohn

To play the Devil’s advocate here, I would question whether our job, as teachers, is to teach our subjects or to teach to the exam. Granted, we do have to teach the syllabus but I think it could be disputed that the whole syllabus must be taught to exam standards.

I also (separately) question the logic of having a syllabus that changes, year on year. It’s virtually guaranteed that mistakes like this will happen occasionally. Why isn’t the syllabus the same every year? Bad as the current maths syllabus is, imagine if certain sections were only taught depending on the year. The idea is ridiculous, yet that’s what happens with English.

RealJohn

spurious wrote: »

Why did corrector of mock papers not mention it in their report (which both mock companies require correctors to write)?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys?
Or probably more accurately, pay peanuts, get people who couldn’t be bothered to write a report informing a teacher that they haven’t taught the correct material.

happywithlife

shouldn't have happened and should never happen but can see how it did happen
from reading the article my thoughts are:
SEC stated if students had answered the filn question using the incorrect film 1/3 of the marks would have still have been allowable? Is that right? I don't know the mark allocation but how many marks would we have been talking about? and how much is that worth % wise of the paper? It would appear to me whilst being wrong to have allowed it to happen It's not complete failure worthy stress (unless of course its extremely significant % in which case ignore the point)

2nd thing I noted was that the teacher was in Zambia I think it said when the error was noted - the only teachers I've known to go on such expediations have all been very young at the start of their career -- again understandable perhaps a young teacher making a mistake and perhaps an indication of lack of interdepartmental support for younger teachers. I correct LC appeals so coukd have 2018 coursework on the brain for remarking, be finishing off 2019 in anticipation of submission and potentially preparing advance work on 2020 coursework -- that's 3 sets of 'LC' assignments to keep straight in my head right there. imagine adding a repeat student into that mix and no wonder I'm double checking which document sheet they're working off of
Finally it's suggested that CP hrs which had historically allowed for department meetings etc had changed meaning a reduction in subject dept meetings or at least a complete refocus of their agenda. I wouldn't like that fact to be overseen. This incident I believe is absolute proof that many of us don't have adequate planning time; that too many CP hrs are used for broader CDP topics with aspirational ideas at best or at worst box-ticking exercises. and not enough time to given to allow for proper interdepartmental meetings that mean the real topics that need to be discussed are pushed out to "talk to you at lunchtime" ....mgt completely at fault for that one I believe.

I feel for the students affected I do. And I don't doubt that they felt paniced and under prepared. As suggested maybe THE SEC could have provided an alternative question at short notice as an insert to those exam centres affected but I've no doubt that would have opened a whole other can of worms. But I can only imagine thete were several factors conspired to the end result here and the teacher will have negative consequences undoubtably - not least the loss of trust from her students in her remaining classes

evolving_doors

6th year teacher going on school tour before LC exams.. that's a bit strange.
Anyhow I know it's taken for granted that we always double check with each other which syllabus is on the course.Relying on mocks.. you gotta be kidding. Blaming new JC ... not buying it. But I can see how course changes can fall through the cracks if someone is out. Still gotta check stuff with your department colleagues .

I've heard that there are a good few teachers who simply don't like to collaborate with their peers (don't share notes, don't ask each other how they teach certain topics) so they just want to be left alone basically. I think this is the problem here. The subject department as a whole have some reflecting to be doing. Whatever about minority subjects.. but English!! I doubt that was the only LC class.

rainbowtrout

delly wrote: »

If the department had taken ownership of the issue 6 days before, could they have put together a special paper for the class based on the wrong curriculum in that timeframe? This in my view would be the best approach and have cause for the lowest chance of a long term impact. Instead it looks like a 'you're on your own response'. You can't reverse the error, but it is the response that leaves the biggest legacy.

The state exams commission has nothing to do with what is taught in schools. Why should they have to set a different paper because a teacher made a mistake. What goes on in schools is not their responsibility.


If you do the driving test and don't learn how to do a three point turn beforehand because you had a driving instructor who didn't teach you how and never mentioned it, you can't go to the test centre and ask for an exam tailored to what you have learned to do.

To achieve fairness all students are examined through the same exam. If they were to set a different paper for this group of students it would open up a massive can of worms and would leave them wide open to schools taking the piss in subsequent years, choosing to teach whatever they want and demanding a paper tailored to suit them.

Incidentally this happened in my school about 15 years ago. The teacher noticed the week before the LC. Had a shit attack, contacted all the parents and brought the students in and taught them for the weekend before the LC. Life went on. Took full responsibility for the situation.


Aside from the teacher not noticing and it not being flagged on the mocks, didn't any of the students question it along the way at all? Surely some student would have copped that their friends in the other class were doing a different film, or friends in other schools weren't doing the same as them. And given that the school had the teacher on a trip to Zambia, I would imagine that it a school that involves some sort of fees. Surely some of these students were on Christmas or Easter revision courses where the film would have been touched on???

Not blaming students of course, but I'm just amazed that nobody noticed this in an age where there is so much access to information from so many different sources.

nermal15

I can easily see how this could happen. The list of texts for the comparative changes every year, and we’re talking 30+ different options. Some remain on the list for a few years in a row, others disappear again quite quickly. In my school at least, the English teachers all pick their own combination of three texts and we don’t always consult each other, unless we have questions/want advice.

I have 5th and 6th years this year so I’ll be checking and double checking that list to avoid this!!

Blaizes

Just want to say reading back on my earlier post I realise it sounds a little harsh. Still I think people need to check and check again and check again.Some schools are better at collaboration than others as has been mentioned and maybe there is a lesson in all of this for all teachers - better communication.

spurious

It can be a very isolating job for some people, particularly those teaching subjects where they may be only the one teacher in the school. To be honest when I heard of it first, I presumed it was going to be a teacher of a minority modern language within the school, working away on their own.

Still, at a minimum, the English Dept. should have agreed on what texts/films they were going to cover. What were they going to do if someone switched class?

That would have taken a five minute meeting. Now while I know it's more important to the Department for us to sit and have Powerpoint presentations read to us, five or ten minutes could have been put aside for a meeting.

There are a lot of questions about the story as reported.

evolving_doors

I think one of the issues is that teachers of eng might not do the same options within that year.
So you could have a teacher who's done say Romeo and Juliet for 20 years and won't change, then another teacher just put of college who wants to do something different.