The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

panevthe3rd

Great movie.

Anyone else notice that during the first scene with his social worker, the clock on the wall in the background is the same clock and same time as the one on the wall when it flashes to him being in Arkham in the white room. Time was 11.10 I think.

micar

Just seen the Ginger Baker (drummer of Cream) passed away. I've been singing/humming White Room since seeing Joker. I love that Band. RIP

Tazzimus

JimmyCorkhill wrote: »

Saw it last night, only alright would be my opinion on it.

Is there a Joker 2 lined up?

Hopefully not. There doesn't need to be a sequel to this.

McDermotX

panevthe3rd wrote: »

Great movie.

Anyone else notice that during the first scene with his social worker, the clock on the wall in the background is the same clock and same time as the one on the wall when it flashes to him being in Arkham in the white room. Time was 11.10 I think.

Put it this way......I think there is a strong argument to suggest

that the only completely 'real' scene in the movie is the appointment in Arkham in the last few mins.

Ambiguous to the end, this one.

panevthe3rd

McDermotX wrote: »

Put it this way......I think there is a strong argument to suggest

that the only completely 'real' scene in the movie is the appointment in Arkham in the last few mins.

Ambiguous to the end, this one.

I only noticed because the clock is in almost the same spot in both scenes.

maybe he never left at all and the first and last scene are seconds apart.

sydthebeat

panevthe3rd wrote: »

I only noticed because the clock is in almost the same spot in both scenes.

maybe he never left at all and the first and last scene are seconds apart.

Definitely a possibility, but would be too much of a dallas story to be the applicable one

The White Wolf

panevthe3rd wrote: »

I only noticed because the clock is in almost the same spot in both scenes.

maybe he never left at all and the first and last scene are seconds apart.

I considered that as well - that he busted himself open due to the repeated banging of his head against glass which lead to a pool of blood forming, which then lead to the blood soaked footprints.

In true Joker form the ending really does fcuk with everything you thought you knew.

Sudden Valley

Thought it was an okay movie. Still think Ledger has the best depiction of the Joker as the Joker in this movie was a bit pathetic throughout . Mother Son relationship was great but thought this would have worked better as a generic clown murderer movie rather than him being the Joker.

Weltsmertz

McDermotX wrote: »

Put it this way......I think there is a strong argument to suggest

that the only completely 'real' scene in the movie is the appointment in Arkham in the last few mins.

Ambiguous to the end, this one.

Not possible. The killing of the Wayne's in front of Bruce is not something he could have known in his imagination. And it also calls for delusionn within delusion. I.g. his relationship with Sophie is a delusion but this is shattered in the movie. The delusion is contradicted by the reality. Your hypothesis calls for multiple layers of delusion

Actually think the opposite. It is the last scene with it's clinical whiteness that is the delusion

Sudden Valley

I think this film is this generations Fight Club. I can imagine some twisted individuals would think that Joker became a cool character at the end of the movie. Though from what I recall Fight Club did not do this well in the box office.

The White Wolf

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I think this film is this generations Fight Club. I can imagine some twisted individuals would think that Joker became a cool character at the end of the movie. Though from what I recall Fight Club did not do this well in the box office.

I didn't think he became cool myself. As he said his life is a tragedy; even if you believe his narration, the masses only love him for what he symbolises as opposed to loving him for who he is as they don't know him.

As Kermode put it he's simply pitiful.

McDermotX

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Not possible. The killing of the Wayne's in front of Bruce is not something he could have known in his imagination. And it also calls for delusion within delusion. I.g. his relationship with Sophie is a delusion but this is shattered in the movie. The delusion is contradicted by the reality. Your hypothesis calls for multiple layers of delusion

Actually think the opposite. It is the last scene with it's clinical whiteness that is the delusion

It's not a hypothesis, it's one interpretation from a tale told from the viewpoint of an unreliable narrator. There are many interpretations that can be taken, in fact the Sophie delusion was handled quite poorly IMO with a subsequent dumbing down montage something that I would take out if it were up to me. If there was one thing, besides the clumsy Bruce Wayne angle, that felt like a studio inclusion, it was that. Let the Sophie reveal be confined to her interaction with Arthur when she finds him in her flat.

The thing to keep in mind is that there are no consequences for anything that happened across this origin story (at least you'd hope given how successful this standalone was). The audience can be presented an interpretation of a familiar scene, such as the Wayne killings, but it can easily fit into a story spun from a delusional mind. It's our familiarity with such mythos that provides the Batman future or looks for a logical reasoning for it to be presented to us, but the suspicion that almost everything that happened in the film is the product of a delusional mind still holds.
The initial interaction with the social worker, the end interaction with the social worker, the reveal of his previous incarceration in Arkham, the overall state of Gotham reflecting his mindset and unraveling psychosis etc

But like I say......an unreliable narrator leads to an unreliable passage of events, so open to interpretation.
An intriguing film.

A Shropshire Lad

Sudden Valley wrote: »

Still think Ledger has the best depiction of the Joker .

Jack Nicholson all the way

Tazzimus

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Jack Nicholson all the way

Mark Hamill would like a word.

The Golden Miller

Tazzimus wrote: »

Mark Hamill would like a word.

No he definitely wouldn't. He's the voice of a cartoon character, in no way comparable, no matter how much certain people want to shoehorn him in

Foxtrol

Weltsmertz wrote: »

Not possible. The killing of the Wayne's in front of Bruce is not something he could have known in his imagination. And it also calls for delusionn within delusion. I.g. his relationship with Sophie is a delusion but this is shattered in the movie. The delusion is contradicted by the reality. Your hypothesis calls for multiple layers of delusion

Actually think the opposite. It is the last scene with it's clinical whiteness that is the delusion

That isn't really a reason why it couldn't still be part of his delusion.

The murder of the Waynes would be a top news story, that everyone would be aware of even in Arkham. It could be something that he had nothing to do with him but he has now inserted himself as being the cause, through one of the people that now ''sees' him, wearing a clown mask.

HappyAsLarE

Woah, great film. Phoenix you animal of an actor.

Wouldn’t read too much into the possibility of “it was all in his head”.

The delusion of the girlfriend was spoiled for us intentionally to show he is proper whacky and not just a bit Aspergers. I didn’t feel we were intended to think beyond that.

Tazzimus

The Golden Miller wrote: »

No he definitely wouldn't. He's the voice of a cartoon character, in no way comparable, no matter how much certain people want to shoehorn him in

A cartoon character, which also counts as a depiction of this comic book character we're all discussing.

sydthebeat

There are absolutely influences from the killing joke in this movie

banie01

Powerful movie.
I found it enthralling, engrossing, compelling and a really wonderfully well crafted origin movie that deserves to be a starting point for a new Batman continuity.
1980's Gotham, and in particular the squad car scene calling back to TDK were lovely nods.
The entire soundscape of the movie, was IMO wonderfully well designed.

Very much a Killing Joke influenced movie, and I think the 80's setting also harkens back to Moore's masterpiece.

The Golden Miller

Tazzimus wrote: »

A cartoon character, which also counts as a depiction of this comic book character we're all discussing.

Yes, the voice. Hardly comparable to an overall live action performance

ebbsy

RasTa wrote: »

Enjoyed it but a full cinema almost ruined it. They only showed 10mins of trailers so lots of people coming in late, couldn't find their seats etc.

Will see it again next week in a less packed cinema hopefully.

Good few people with kids walking out didn't help either.

They shouldn't have been let in and the parents have questons to answer also.

Newbridge Odeon did a good job in this regard however.

Tazzimus

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Yes, the voice. Hardly comparable to an overall live action performance

It is somewhat comparable, seeing as Hamill only has his voice to convey the character.
Different mediums, but great performances.

But that's a whole other discussion.

JP Liz V1

Phoenix is up there with Day Lewis, absolutely phenomenal performance

De Niro and Frances Fisher (liked her since Six Feet Under) were very good

cdgalwegian

Enjoyed reading comments here; salivating at prospect of watching it now. However it seemed to be getting a bit spoilery there with talk of 'delusions' etc, so I had to bypass that stuff.
I'll come back after I've watched it. (hopefully tomorrow).

Funkfield

micar wrote: »

Just seen the Ginger Baker (drummer of Cream) passed away. I've been singing/humming White Room since seeing Joker. I love that Band. RIP

You and me both.

Loved when that kicked in. RIP Ginger. A true legend

johnnyskeleton

McDermotX wrote: »

Put it this way......I think there is a strong argument to suggest

that the only completely 'real' scene in the movie is the appointment in Arkham in the last few mins.

Ambiguous to the end, this one.

Normally I'm a big fan of movies that don't spoon feed you answers. However I found this a little bit annoying because

If he was in the asylum all the time and just imagining this it kinda takes away from the movie. The "it was all just a dream" twist is only good if it's integral to the movie, and this felt a little bit jarring compared to the rest of the movie

Otherwise, it was an amazing movie and one of the best I've seen in a long time

Wayne Jarvis

With all these spoiler tags pretty soon the thread will resemble this!

runningbuddy

Saw it this evening. Mind blowing. JP is phenomenal. I was expecting to be slightly disappointed (always the pessimist) due to the hype but I wasn't.

JP Liz V1

In regard to Zazie Beetz character

Fleck's neighbour, did he kill her and her kid?