The Joker movie - starring Joaquin Phoenix (MOD: May contain Spoilers)

PTH2009

My head is hurting reading back at the theories posted here

Mind ****

santana75

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

There has to be something going on here with these twats

Have to agree. Before me and a few friends saw this saturday night, all of said the same thing: "Heard it was sh1te". We'd all read dodgy reviews(and bought into them to some extent). Came out of the theatre 2 hours later absolutely stunned. Left me scratching my head as to the reason why there were such bad reviews. I know everyone has their own tastes and all but it seems like theres some sort of agenda at work here, to discredit the film or the individuals who made the film. The opposite side of that coin is when we went to see Black panther. We all thought it was gonna be great, based on the glowing reviews. Turned out to be p1ss poor movie. I dunno if its just RT or its across the board, but it seems like movie critics are not judging films on artistic merit, but are being influenced by other factors(or other organisations).

pjohnson

Foxtrol wrote: »

I enjoyed it but it got me thinking of what we classify as a comic book movie.

Obviously, Joker is a character from comic books but aside from the forced Wayne scenes this movie could stand by itself as a drama/thriller.

Does creating a completely new story that can stand by itself but references a comic book character still make it a comic book movie? Is a movie a Western just because it has a cowboy in it?

Logan was described many times as being more Traditional Western than traditional Comic Book iirc.

one armed dwarf

Saw this, wasnt a fan. Its extremely well acted and shot but suffers from a fairly muddled messaging IMO. Which is that even as it puts up front the failures of the social systems that let people like this fall between the cracks as well as the iniquity between haves and have-nots, it doesnt do as good a job at separating Arthur's penchant for violence from his history of mental illness

Which I found troubling tbh. I hope I dont get a weird blowback for this as I've seen already we are laying into critics who dont like it. I think probably with a director's cut we would get a more balanced version of this which doesnt make Arthur's crimes feel an inevitable part of whatever happened to him.

Kind of was also left with the impression that the comic books were just there as a loose sort of framework and didn't really need to be a part of it. Hard to not see it as a bit of a cynical exercise by the director to get arses in seats to watch an arthouse film. Which I dont mind actually, I think that's pretty ballsy. Just the execution fell flat for me

But anyway, it's very artfully done and astoundingly well acted, but narratively clumsy and kind of bad. But it's still a pretty interesting experiment all the same, packaging a movie like this inside a comic book film.

The Golden Miller

It's a good film, but he's not the Joker. He's far too slow in general to ever be a criminal mastermind, least not the Joker, no matter how he could potentially be developed. The Joker is far more quick witted.

The origin or the Joker is ambiguous too. I'm not against an origin story, but could anyone see any depiction of the Joker coming from this origin? Does the Joker self-pity himself? Wouldn't have though so. Is he a victim of mental illness who was beaten up by society? Wouldn't of thought so either. Always got the impression he was smart and level headed, but with a unique ideology. He simply does not care.

Bigboldworld

One of the best I’ve seen, go see it.

Man Vs ManUre

So is Pheonix a dead cert to win best actor at the oscars?? Who else apart from DiCaprio is his competition?? I think Brad Pitt will be nominated best actor for Ad Astra and best supporting actor for OUATIH. The oscars love films about Hollywood so I reckon this year Tarantino will finally get his best director Oscar, and possibly best film also. Reckon Pitt will win best supporting but DiCaprio will lose out to Pheonix.

AMKC

So I seen this movie this evening and all I can say is its not a very nice movie at all. In fact I thought there was some plot points in it that did not get finished are got lost in the movie. I thought it would have worked much better as a series. Why someone would want to go see a movie so bleak and dark I do not know. I regretted going to see it myself. I say save yourself money and see it when its on the T.V as there is nothing in this film that means you need to go see it in the cinema. I actually enjoyed the trailers before the film more than the film itself.
I would give it a 2 out of 10.

PTH2009

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

So is Pheonix a dead cert to win best actor at the oscars?? Who else apart from DiCaprio is his competition?? I think Brad Pitt will be nominated best actor for Ad Astra and best supporting actor for OUATIH. The oscars love films about Hollywood so I reckon this year Tarantino will finally get his best director Oscar, and possibly best film also. Reckon Pitt will win best supporting but DiCaprio will lose out to Pheonix.

Is di caprios for that Hollywood thing (cant think of the name) ?

Bigboldworld

AMKC wrote: »

So I seen this movie this evening and all I can say is its not a very nice movie at all. In fact I thought there was some plot points in it that did not get finished are got lost in the movie. I thought it would have worked much better as a series. Why someone would want to go see a movie so bleak and dark I do not know. I regretted going to see it myself. I say save yourself money and see it when its on the T.V as there is nothing in this film that means you need to go see it in the cinema. I actually enjoyed the trailers before the film more than the film itself.
I would give it a 2 out of 10.

I have to say every single trailer I saw before joker looked god awful, the new terminator etc, one with will smith gemini man etc joker is the best film I’ve seen in a long long time restores a bit of faith in the movie industry

tipp_tipp_tipp

One of the best films I've ever seen. Saw it on Friday and haven't stop thinking about it since. I normally run a mile from anything related to comic books, but was really intrigued by the trailer. Such an interesting take on such an iconic character.

Man Vs ManUre

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is di caprios for that Hollywood thing (cant think of the name) ?

Yeah it’s the only film he has made since the revenant so doh!! And he is amazing in it, such a great comedic actor, he showed his great slapstick genius in the wolf of Wall Street and catch me if you can. And he doesn’t put a foot wrong in once upon a time...... but it seems Pheonix is the only winner of best Actor this year.

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's a good film, but he's not the Joker. He's far too slow in general to ever be a criminal mastermind, least not the Joker, no matter how he could potentially be developed. The Joker is far more quick witted.

The origin or the Joker is ambiguous too. I'm not against an origin story, but could anyone see any depiction of the Joker coming from this origin? Does the Joker self-pity himself? Wouldn't have though so. Is he a victim of mental illness who was beaten up by society? Wouldn't of thought so either. Always got the impression he was smart and level headed, but with a unique ideology. He simply does not care.

Your description of the Joker, the description most people seem to believe he is outside of this film, never made sense to me at all. How can he be smart and level headed yet want to watch the world burn. It didn't add up.

barney shamrock

I thought it was one of the most extraordinary things I've ever seen in a cinema.
A fantastic film and an unbelievable performance by JP.
Can't have been easy channeling that character, he definitely deserves the oscar.
Whether the Academy will give it to him or not is another story.

Foxtrol

santana75 wrote: »

Have to agree. Before me and a few friends saw this saturday night, all of said the same thing: "Heard it was sh1te". We'd all read dodgy reviews(and bought into them to some extent). Came out of the theatre 2 hours later absolutely stunned. Left me scratching my head as to the reason why there were such bad reviews. I know everyone has their own tastes and all but it seems like theres some sort of agenda at work here, to discredit the film or the individuals who made the film. The opposite side of that coin is when we went to see Black panther. We all thought it was gonna be great, based on the glowing reviews. Turned out to be p1ss poor movie. I dunno if its just RT or its across the board, but it seems like movie critics are not judging films on artistic merit, but are being influenced by other factors(or other organisations).

I'll preface this by saying again that I enjoyed the movie but I can see where someone could come to the opinions of those critics.

Critics are going to compare like with like movies, they don't grade a blockbuster like Black Panther against the likes of Taxi Driver, because that isn't what most comic book movies are trying to, whereas Joker is.

As a recent poster smartly pointed out, this movie is basically slipping in an arthouse movie by branding it with the Joker. Critics are understandably going to have difficulties with that attempt to mesh the two and mark it against its peers.

Many of the audience don't expose themselves to this type of movie often, including myself, and as a result see this as some kind of revelation when it really isn't.

JP Liz V1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is di caprios for that Hollywood thing (cant think of the name) ?

Yes for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

I think Joaquin has to be the front runner for the best actor Oscar with his competition coming from Leo, De Niro (The Irishman), Antonio Banderas (Pain & Glory) and Matt Damon and Christian Bale (Ford v. Ferrari) if both go lead

The only thing that could hurt Joker's Oscar chances is the bad publicity for gun violence and Joaquin not liking media attention, spotlight, campaigning etc.,

Man Vs ManUre

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Yes for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

I think Joaquin has to be the front runner for the best actor Oscar with his competition coming from Leo, De Niro (The Irishman), Antonio Banderas (Pain & Glory) and Matt Damon and Christian Bale (Ford v. Ferrari) if both go lead

The only thing that could hurt Joker's Oscar chances is the bad publicity for gun violence and Joaquin not liking media attention, spotlight, campaigning etc.,

Brad Pitt for Ad Astra will be one of the 5.

PressRun

Thought it was an odd one.
Brilliant work by Joaquin Phoenix - he has some dedication to his craft. Kind of felt that the Joker had reached its zenith as a character with Heath Ledger and couldn't understand why it was being rehashed again and again when we'd already seen the best of it, but JP really makes it his own.

But something about the film did leave me a bit cold. It felt like it was trying to say something about society or "the world we live in", but wasn't really getting to the heart of it or stopping just short of really committing to anything. Maybe this is a problem with the script, I don't know, but something about the messaging was off for me.

JP Liz V1

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Brad Pitt for Ad Astra will be one of the 5.

Oh yes I had forgot about Pitt for that

Joaquin may even lose out on a nomination and his performance is truly phenomenal

PressRun

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Oh yes I had forgot about Pitt for that

Joaquin may even lose out on a nomination and his performance is truly phenomenal

He won't lose out. No other performance has people talking as much as this one. Unless they decide to be contrarian for the sake of it, he will win it.

Interestingly, if he does win, will it be the first time two actors have won an Oscar for the same character?

The Golden Miller

Deleted User wrote: »

Your description of the Joker, the description most people seem to believe he is outside of this film, never made sense to me at all. How can he be smart and level headed yet want to watch the world burn. It didn't add up.

He has an ideology and follows through. Just because one might not agree with it, doesn't mean he's not level headed or smart, he just believe's in what he believe's. And even if he has mental issue's, they aren't one's where he's down on his luck or pity's himself.

I did like the scene in the studio after he shot the TV host. Everyone loses their mind, he just casually sits there looking around, on camera with a man who he just shot. Stuck out for whatever reason. He talked too slow in this film though, sounded very feminine or Michael Jackson-esque, Joker is usually one for quips

brianregan09

Here's my view on it , as i can't can't put it into writable words

JP Liz V1

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Yes for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

I think Joaquin has to be the front runner for the best actor Oscar with his competition coming from Leo, De Niro (The Irishman), Antonio Banderas (Pain & Glory) and Matt Damon and Christian Bale (Ford v. Ferrari) if both go lead

Adam Driver will be nominated for Marriage Story.

Ferajacka

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's a good film, but he's not the Joker. He's far too slow in general to ever be a criminal mastermind, least not the Joker, no matter how he could potentially be developed. The Joker is far more quick witted.

I've been thinking about this and after some thought I think the quick witted joker is what comes after this movie. He was just starting to become this towards the end of it.

He went from planning to kill himself on TV, to killing the host with a joker style joke.
Sneaking into the Opera or what ever it was dressed as an usher, was very joker like. I presume he killed a load of people in the asylum and he escapes at the end as we seen joker do a million times

It reminds me of Saul in breaking bad - Saul in breaking bad is unrelenting and bit of craic. The Saul in better call Saul isn't half as much of the full on character we saw in BB yet. (Mind you shouldn't take 3 seasons to find out).

johnny_ultimate

Yeah saw Marriage Story earlier and was far more impressed with Driver in that than Phoenix in this, if only because the latter has surpassed my expectations multiple times before.

MOR316

Don't know if it's been discussed but...

What if Arthur was the guy that killed the Waynes and the rest was all in his head?

Long shot but, it's a head f**k of a movie, in a good way

faceman

lord quackinton wrote: »

Excellent Movie
For me the movie tries to get the viewer to think about how people with serious mental health issues are treated by their community, social care and government
What was real and what is fantasy?
I see people linking to king of comedy and I think there is some symmetry
The joker is not a bad man, he has real serious issues, who needed real medical help
Go see it

He committed murder in cold bold. He is very much a bad man.

Damien360

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's a good film, but he's not the Joker. He's far too slow in general to ever be a criminal mastermind, least not the Joker, no matter how he could potentially be developed. The Joker is far more quick witted.

I thought it was a brilliant film and the sound was astounding. Oscar material all round for me.

The Joker in this was slow on his many meds but as the film evolved he came off his meds and became impulsive (very joker like) and when on the TV show, he showed his wit and anger.

Everything about this was a brilliant study of a descent into madness and the birth of the Joker. He just wanted to be loved/adored and the crowds at the end gave him that. I never thought of him as a criminal mastermind but just brought chaos. The train chase scene and his arrest gave a nod to this.

The link to the Wayne’s was good and gave a back story to his mother and a reason to go to the asylum for her records.

I thought they should have left out the very end in the asylum. End on the car bonnet would have been better.

JP Liz V1

PressRun wrote: »

He won't lose out. No other performance has people talking as much as this one. Unless they decide to be contrarian for the sake of it, he will win it.

I hope he does win he was robbed for Gladiator and Walk the Line

The Golden Miller

Damien360 wrote: »

The Joker in this was slow on his many meds but as the film evolved he came off his meds and became impulsive (very joker like) and when on the TV show, he showed his wit and anger.

He got angry on the TV show, but I don't think he was very quick witted. He's generally far more articulate and vocal in expressing himself and his idea's. On the show he just pulled faces and spoke like a slow Michael Jackson, explaining himself like a child tbh.

Of course he has to be a criminal mastermind to bring the level of chaos he does and to be always one step ahead.