Storm Ali : Weds 19 Sept 2018

JCX BXC

ZX7R wrote: »

Why would they have egg on there face,seen as the American forecasters where talking about a totally different weather system than Ali

Agreed, Met Éireann have no egg on their face, Florence had very little to do with this system! It was completely separate.

Gaoth Laidir

brooke 2 wrote: »

Wasn't MÉ very annoyed with US forecasters a few weeks ago when they said a hurrricane was due to hit Ireland in a few weeks time? Looks like they have egg on their face. For some reason, they seemed determined to downplay the seriousness of Ali. I thought Joanna Donnelly was very restrained, even uncomfortable, on the news this evening when talking about all the damage done by Ali.

I think you're getting your storms mixed up there, or are getting your information from the excuses for journalists at the Indo or Irish Mirror. We got no hurricane. We will get no hurricane.

ZeRoY

weisses wrote: »

Warning system is ridiculous when you don't take into account the impact in regards to the season

130 kph winds when trees have still leaves vs mid winter is a world of difference

Met Eirrean forecasting and providing appropriate warning is a farce

Thank you Sir. My Thoughts exactly.

Also - imo the problem comes from the warning description and how it is perceived by people. I knew it was Orange the day before but to me that did not translate in my head (and that of the majority of people I would advance) into trees falling down and caravans taken away to sea.

Red would have done this, but not Orange. When you see the devastation caused yesterday its a miracle there wasnt more injured or worse. And compared again with Ophelia where there was television intervention by Met E and Gov about what to expect I could see how yesterday could have been warned in the same manner for some counties at least. Instead we got a fairly casual weather report on RTE and really nothing to indicate the level of destruction we saw. In summary for me two things should be changed:

Either Orange warning comes with more media coverage on the potential risks or warning system is reviewed as people do not seem to react to Orange but to Red only.

I will be checking this forum a lot more in the future as I see a few here had the correct picture in mind as early as 17/09 and were advising a Red for West Coast, the poor woman in Clifden and the man in South Armagh would likely still be alive, RIP.

harr

I really can’t get over some people’s attitude.
I was speaking to a neighbor yesterday who’s car got damaged and he was giving out ME didn’t give a bigger warning the same chap last year was giving out about a little wind getting a red warning.
An elderly relation fell yesterday in the wind and she gave out because ME didn’t tell her to stay in.
Can no one make up there own minds or take risk assessments any more.
Look out the bloody window and watch the weather forecast and make up your own mind on the risk you want to take.

Harry Palmr

The traffic light system is very crude and clearly many people have already decided that if it's not RED it's not that bad.

Clearly a storm during full leaf is far more dangerous than mid winter as every tree is a potential sail.

Tombo2001

harr wrote: »

I really can’t get over some people’s attitude.
I was speaking to a neighbor yesterday who’s car got damaged and he was giving out ME didn’t give a bigger warning the same chap last year was giving out about a little wind getting a red warning.
An elderly relation fell yesterday in the wind and she gave out because ME didn’t tell her to stay in.
Can no one make up there own minds or take risk assessments any more.
Look out the bloody window and watch the weather forecast and make up your own mind on the risk you want to take.

Hang on.

Last year we had Ophelia, which was - as borne out by the statistics - a lesser storm than yesterday in more than half of the country.

This is backed up by anecdotal evidence - the obvious one being tree damage. I know our brethren in Galway are big on this idea that it didnt get a Red warning because it didnt go near dublin. If thats the case Dublin must have had a couple of BFGs out and about yesterday because there are trees ripped up all over the place.

I was really amazed yesterday at how many school kids were walking down Griffith Avenue during the storm, with branches falling all over the place.

Against that - Simon Coveney is saying - well we told people there was an orange warning, they need to take it seriously.

But the government itself - for a lesser storm last year (when it was on the island of Ireland, which is all that matters) - shut down the entire school system for the day. And it didnt yesterday.

The whole thing smacks of fake news; trying to make out that it didnt actually happen.

ZeRoY

harr wrote: »

I really can’t get over some people’s attitude.

Expectation VS Reality. And there is nothing more to add than what has just been posted:

The traffic light system is very crude and clearly many people have already decided that if it's not RED it's not that bad.

Harry Palmr

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Against that - Simon Coveney is saying - well we told people there was an orange warning, they need to take it seriously.

But the government itself - for a lesser storm last year (when it was on the island of Ireland, which is all that matters) - shut down the entire school system for the day. And it didnt yesterday.

The whole thing smacks of fake news; trying to make out that it didnt actually happen.

Please avoid sounding like an Alt-right Trumpian as you'll be dismissed as a loon

The difference is Ophelia was a designated hurricane and everyone
understands what that implies and a plan was executed. This was "merely" a named storm - there are no fixed parameters for this sort of thing. Location A could get a massive gust location B might miss everything of substance. In Waterford City it was very windy but nothing like Ophelia or Storm Brian which I thought was more intense here.

Tombo2001

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Please avoid sounding like an Alt-right Trumpian as you'll be dismissed as a loon

The difference is Ophelia was a designated hurricane and everyone
understands what that implies and a plan was executed. This was "merely" a named storm - there are no fixed parameters for this sort of thing. Location A could get a massive gust location B might miss everything of substance. In Waterford City it was very windy but nothing like Ophelia or Storm Brian which I thought was more intense here.

Is that not a latter day Godwin-ism?

Harry Palmr

Probably but the citing of "fake news" smacks of an ideology these days.

bnt

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The traffic light system is very crude and clearly many people have already decided that if it's not RED it's not that bad.

Clearly a storm during full leaf is far more dangerous than mid winter as every tree is a potential sail.

The way things are, anything less than Red means life has to carry on. If you stay off work under an Orange warning, you can expect to be penalised for that. They might say "no unnecessary journeys", but my journey to work is necessary to me so that I get paid. :rolleyes:

JCX BXC

Don't we have a separate thread for this? It's frying me head.

BBFAN

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I watched the forecast after the news last night. Very casual air to it. Poor showing by Met eireann

Lot of ppl are saying that unless a storm directly affects Dublin then it doesn’t get analysed enough or taken seriously.

Storm Ali hit Dublin worse than Ophelia did so that's obviously BS.

Flippyfloppy

Maybe news black out rather than fake news?

Red warning= risk to life. Trees falling everywhere due to being in full leaf is a risk to life!

MJohnston

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Is that not a latter day Godwin-ism?

And "fake news" isn't?

ZeRoY

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Maybe news black out rather than fake news?

Red warning= risk to life. Trees falling everywhere due to being in full leaf is a risk to life!

And also the magic work "Take Actions" - like relocate in the case of the caravan park.

YFlyer

ZeRoY wrote: »

I will be checking this forum a lot more in the future as I see a few here had the correct picture in mind as early as 17/09 and were advising a Red for West Coast, the poor woman in Clifden and the man in South Armagh would likely still be alive, RIP.

Would she have parked the caravan at a different location if there was a red warning?

coillsaille

I know posters are getting sick of the arguement about the warning level so I won't say much more than I have in the thread already.
But one thing that's really getting to me is the posters making out that the people saying it should have been red take no personal responsibility for their own safety.
The problem is that many people's employer simply will not accept weather as justification for not showing up unless a red warning is issued. This thing of making out that all you have to do is check the forecast/look out the window and not go out if you think it's dangerous is complete BS. The repercussions for not showing up at work in the absence of a red warning are many and varied depending on your job.

ZeRoY

YFlyer wrote: »

Would she have parked the caravan at a different location if there was a red warning?

I'd like to think so but in truth we cant answer this.

ZeRoY

coillsaille wrote: »

I know posters are getting sick of the arguement about the warning level so I won't say much more than I have in the thread already.
But one thing that's really getting to me is the posters making out that the people saying it should have been red take no personal responsibility for their own safety.
The problem is that many people's employer simply will not accept weather as justification for not showing up unless a red warning is issued. This thing of making out that all you have to do is check the forecast/look out the window and not go out if you think it's dangerous is complete BS. The repercussions for not showing up at work in the absence of a red warning are many and varied depending on your job.

Its the "jaws" dilemma for gov officials who Im sure are in touch with Met Eireann regarding the warning system. Close the country at the risk of losing money and face huge backlash if nothing comes of the storm or do a bit of damage limitation with "we told you so".

Cork Boy 53

bnt wrote: »

The way things are, anything less than Red means life has to carry on. If you stay off work under an Orange warning, you can expect to be penalised for that. They might say "no unnecessary journeys", but my journey to work is necessary to me so that I get paid. :rolleyes:

What is more important? Losing a day`s pay or taking the risk of being killed or seriously injured by travelling in potentially dangerous conditions?

tphase

YFlyer wrote: »

Would she have parked the caravan at a different location if there was a red warning?

AFAIK she was a cyclist so it would be likely it wasn't her caravan or her decision to park in that location

coillsaille

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

What is more important? Losing a day`s pay or taking the risk of being killed or seriously injured by travelling in potentially dangerous conditions?

Losing a day's pay for not coming in might be the only repercussion in some jobs but only some. In other jobs it could mean anything at all; falling out of favour with the boss, a blot on your record, missing out on promotion, increased pressure on your colleagues leading to resentment, etc, etc.

YFlyer

tphase wrote: »

AFAIK she was a cyclist so it would be likely it wasn't her caravan or her decision to park in that location

It was probably not the best location to park the caravan under an orange warming as well.

Hopefully there be stricter guidelines on where you can park your caravan, camper vans and pitch tents whatever the weather.

NIMAN

The authorities can't win.

They got abuse after Ophelia when they declared RED and people said "sure we were grand".

This time they declared ORANGE and warned the public to take extreme care as there would be dangerous and damaging gusts, and again they get abuse.

Inventing colours and degrees of severity was the worst thing they ever did.
How did we manage beforehand when the weather service simply told us there was a bad storm on the way and to watch out for yourselves.

tphase

YFlyer wrote: »

It was probably not the best location to park the caravan under an orange warming as well.

Hopefully there be stricter guidelines on where you can park your caravan, camper vans and pitch tents whatever the weather.

surely a bit of cop on tells you where not to park your caravan if there's a bad storm coming?

Cork Boy 53

coillsaille wrote: »

Losing a day's pay for not coming in might be the only repercussion in some jobs but only some. In other jobs it could mean anything at all; falling out of favour with the boss, a blot on your record, missing out on promotion, increased pressure on your colleagues leading to resentment, etc, etc.

I would suggest that being seriously injured or worse while travelling to or from work in potentially dangerous conditions would have far more serious repercussions.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

Would she have parked the caravan at a different location if there was a red warning?

According to the news reports the lady in question rented the caravan on the camping site. Photos on RTE show a bicycle some concrete blocks and a foot step as the only indicators of where the caravan had been situated.

It would appear the caravan had been in situ for some time as there is no grass where the caravan was situated.

Caravans are notoriously unstable in winds and are made of very light materials. It takes very little for them to be blown over in high winds.

See here:
https://www.caravanguard.co.uk/news/how-to-avoid-an-accident-when-towing-a-touring-caravan-in-high-winds-3845/

YFlyer

tphase wrote: »

surely a bit of cop on tells you where not to park your caravan if there's a bad storm coming?

True.

I would include that there should be a buffer zone whether the weather.

gozunda

YFlyer wrote: »

True.

I would include that there should be a buffer zone whether the weather.

The normal advice is to not stay in caravans in very windy weather. During the winter mobile caravans in exposed sites are towed to storage areas. Permanent style camping homes are usually secured in place using ground anchors and other methods.

Apparently a tent adjacent to the caravan remained unaffected by the winds.