Old department demanding me to work

LegacyUser

I transferred to a new department recently.

When I was in my old department I wrote a little piece of software to automate some tasks that took place on a shared server. This program needs a little bit of maintenance to keep working and stops working after a few weeks.

My co-workers use the program still (I never had an issue with this) but are unable to maintain it.

I'm still broadly with the same company but my role is completely different now so I haven't been maintaining it. Predictably, it's no longer working.

I was contacted by a previous manager (very bad history between us) and very rudely told to fix it. I declined as there is not enough time for me to regularly undertake the task, I'm almost never on site these days, and I honestly just want to get as much distance between that dept and myself as I can. (I only gave the first two reasons). I advised to go back to the way it used to be done before I joined the team.

They didn't like this and have continued to contact me about this and have even demanded my source code (which wouldn't really help them to be honest). I've been accused of interfering and sabotaging with the function of their department.

I was never asked to make this software, I just did it because it made my life easier and had no issue with others using it. I regard the source code as my own property.
Going back to the way of doing things before I worked there will have little impact (things will take longer now but will still be as accurate as they were before).

No-one has contacted my current manager but I'm worried they're going to do so and paint me in a bad light.

Is it reasonable of me not to share my code or continue to work for an old department given that I do not have the time to do so?

nibtrix

I would have assumed that the intellectual property for the code actually belongs to the company, as you developed it on their systems and presumably on their work time. Check your contract, but most people don't get to keep the rights to anything they create while working with a company. (not an expert opinion!)

For the other side of it, YOU go to your current manager NOW and let them know what's going on, that your old department head is demanding work for you. You have the opportunity to ensure that your manager understands the situation from your point of view before the old manager gets to "paint you in a bad light", so use it!
If you can convince your current manager that you are not able to support the old department because of all of the reasons you gave above, then your current manager can very quickly shut the issue down. Burying your head in the sand and ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

MarkR

As above, the software would belong to them. For your own sanity, I'd be going to my mananger, advising that another department is seeking assistance, and request time to be allocated to generate a handover. Give them all the required info, and them them arrange for someone else to maintain it.

skallywag

If you wrote the code while you were on-the-clock at work then it's most certainly their property and not yours.

Whether you now have to support them or not is very much down to your new boss. Have an open discussion with him. If your old boss has any issues he or she should then just contact your new boss directly to clarify.

OMM 0000

If you wrote the code during your work hours, the source code belongs to the company.

The old manager is being very unprofessional. She should be doing this communication via your new manager.

I feel you should talk to your new manager about this. No doubt she'll be furious a different team is trying to use one of her resources.

_Brian

I Can’t see how anyone could reasonably view the source code as your property.
It’s something you did for work and used solely at work, it belongs to work.

I think what you do is probably the responsibility of your current department head and I expect you should be involving them on this. They will either get this monkey if your back or put you back in line and get the problem sorted.

Stoner

Go into your new boss with the code on a USB stick.

Give it to the new boss and ask that they speak to the old boss so that any time input from you is requested through your new boss.

Don't overestimate the power your new boss has. Give them the info and let communication follow a structure that will allow your new boss to defend your position.

RiseToMe

As above, the IP (both the code and the software) belong to the company- without a shadow of a doubt. Go to your new boss, have every piece of code needed on a USB, give it to him and explain the situation. Let your new boss decide if he wants to allocate your resources to it or not.

skallywag

_Brian wrote: »

I Can’t see how anyone could reasonably view the source code as your property

The only way that I can possibly imagine this would be if the OP wrote the code at home from a hobby standpoint during time off (and using non-company owned hardware and licenses), and then went on to use the compiled binary while at work. I've come across this in the past.

That said though, I actually once had a team member who asked me during an exit interview whether the company would consider paying him a fee to buy the software tool/code which he had developed during the last months. He genuinely seemed surprised when I pointed out to him that that was the reason we were paying him a salary during that time :pac:

CruelCoin

Glockenspiel44 wrote: »

I was never asked to make this software, I just did it because it made my life easier and had no issue with others using it. I regard the source code as my own property.

Is it reasonable of me not to share my code or continue to work for an old department given that I do not have the time to do so?

Any product of your work done during work hours is the property of the company.

Did you write it at home or at work?

rock22

Glockenspiel44 wrote: »

…..in my old department I wrote a little piece of software to automate some tasks that took place on a shared server. …...My co-workers use the program still ….

I'm still broadly with the same company …..,

it's no longer working.
I was... told to fix it. I declined. ...They didn't like this...
…. have even demanded my source code.....

?

You introduced a change in a process at your old department, which others working there came to rely on, and you are refusing to fix it. Can you understand why your old manager is unhappy?
I don't necessarily agree with others that the company own the source code, but why not share it with them if it will help resolve the problem for them.?

Glockenspiel44 wrote: »

…..
I've been accused of interfering and sabotaging with the function of their department.

I was never asked to make this software, I just did it because it made my life easier and had no issue with others using it.

Going back to the way of doing things before I worked there will have little impact …..

Can you not see that introducing this piece of software has interfered with the way your old department worked. No one asked you to do this so presumably no onw knows what changes have been done.
While introducing this software in itself it may not have sabotaged the workings of the department, your refusal to help solve the problem certainly could be construed that way.

Glockenspiel44 wrote: »

…...
.... I regard the source code as my own property.

…. No-one has contacted my current manager but I'm worried they're going to do so and paint me in a bad light.....


Is it reasonable of me not to share my code or continue to work for an old department given that I do not have the time to do so?

Even if you do own the copyright on the code, it is unreasonable to not share the source code if it will help the company, who you say you still work for
.

But the bigger picture is that you are leaving them with no option but to contact your new manager and be then directed by him/her to remedy the matter.
This episode will definitely paint you in a very bad light.

If necessary , ask for time from your new department to get it sorted. Then , either hand over the source code, or train someone else on how to maintain it.

skallywag

rock22 wrote: »

I don't necessarily agree with others that the company own the source code, but why not share it with them if it will help resolve the problem for them.?.

If the code was written while the OP was on the employer's dime and/or using the employer's infrastructure (e.g. hardware, licenses, etc.) then it's black and white. The employer owns the code.

rock22

skallywag wrote: »

If the code was written while the OP was on the employer's dime and/or using the employer's infrastructure (e.g. hardware, licenses, etc.) then it's black and white. The employer owns the code.

I don't think it is black and white. I think EU Intellectual copyright is much more nuanced than that. If the Op was employed as a software developer than that would be the case but it is not clear that applies her.
Irrespective of copyright, As I said above, there is some onus on the OP to remedy the situation his employer finds himself in .

wexie

rock22 wrote: »

Even if you do own the copyright on the code, it is unreasonable to not share the source code if it will help the company, who you say you still work for
.

But the bigger picture is that you are leaving them with no option but to contact your new manager and be then directed by him/her to remedy the matter.
This episode will definitely paint you in a very bad light.

If necessary , ask for time from your new department to get it sorted. Then , either hand over the source code, or train someone else on how to maintain it.

Aside from all of that though....why not hand over the code to them?

What's in it for you? Does it have any applications outside of the very specific use you created it for? Does not handing it over benefit you somehow? Does holding onto it benefit you somehow?

Are you sure the only reason you don't want to give it to them is because of the bad blood between you and your old manager?

Hand it over, give them instructions on how to use it, set a very clear expectation of how much of your time they are getting to help with this (perhaps get your new manager to do this) and just wash your hands of it and move on.

There is no way whatsoever that refusing to help here isn't going to make you look bad, both in general and (certainly if it were me) to your new manager.

OMM 0000

Yes, even if on some technicality the source code belongs to Glockenspiel44, he's being absolutely unreasonable.

I've worked with people like him - IT guys who hate to share their knowledge.

They're usually toxic to work with.

Of course Glockenspiel44 might be a lovely fellow.

mickoneill31

This might not work depending on your company.

Give them the code. If you developed it on their time and have no contract to say that any code created belongs to you then it belongs to them.
It is unlikely that they will be able to do anything with the code.

Ask your old manager if he wants you to support the code.
If he wants you to support it during work hours tell your manager and ask what he thinks. He won't / shouldn't agree to this. If he does, maybe he has some way to charge your old dept.
If he would let you support the code during your personal time, also tell your manager to see if they have any conflict and if not, negotiate a fee with your old manager. I don't know how much work it is to maintain / support your app. You can figure out how many hours / days a month would be required. Get a contract for the extra work specifying what you will do and what timeframes you'll do it in.

ArthurG

Why oh why do people allow themselves to get into these situations. There is nothing complicated here. The OP has the solution already available to them:

- speak with your current line manager and agree to allocate time to support the other team or
- do a handover to train the team you've left on the 'little bit of maintenance' and/or
- give them the code which it certainly sounds like the company owns

Its not hard. You could solve this in less than an hour by having a grown up discussion with the involved parties. I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye however, and the OP has some grievance or other that this is serving as a proxy for.

mvl

I would also assume the source code belongs to the company, unless you agreed with them formally that you can write code they don't have rights on ?!?
- Plenty of advise on how to handle the situation.

For me the important thing is who drives the prioritization for your work: the old manager can't decide when you should fix an issue for the old dept, for sure this is a decision that belongs to your current managers, after reviewing all other tasks that are competing for your time at the moment. You have to find a way to help, while the support needed has to get onto the front door (no favors).

Be mindful that this is Ireland, small place where burning bridges does no good for anyone's' career (while I've seen ppl doing it ... that would be their loss eventually).

PS: also I would consider asking access for time/resources in order to fix your code so that it doesn't need repetitive updates every few weeks

Jucifer

ArthurG wrote: »

Why oh why do people allow themselves to get into these situations. There is nothing complicated here. The OP has the solution already available to them:

- speak with your current line manager and agree to allocate time to support the other team or
- do a handover to train the team you've left on the 'little bit of maintenance' and/or
- give them the code which it certainly sounds like the company owns

Its not hard. You could solve this in less than an hour by having a grown up discussion with the involved parties. I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye however, and the OP has some grievance or other that this is serving as a proxy for.

This a million times over.

Speak with your manager first, then organise a handover, including some time to allocate to training up someone to maintain the code. Maintaining professional relationships with people you may not like personally is part of most people’s jobs. If there is a joint project between your old and new division or your old manger gets promoted over your area then you are not in the best situation.

OMM 0000

ArthurG wrote: »

Why oh why do people allow themselves to get into these situations. There is nothing complicated here. The OP has the solution already available to them:

- speak with your current line manager and agree to allocate time to support the other team or
- do a handover to train the team you've left on the 'little bit of maintenance' and/or
- give them the code which it certainly sounds like the company owns

Its not hard. You could solve this in less than an hour by having a grown up discussion with the involved parties. I suspect there is a bit more to this than meets the eye however, and the OP has some grievance or other that this is serving as a proxy for.

I'm not saying the OP has aspergers, but a significant minority of IT people do, and they seem to have no understanding of proper social behaviour.

NickNickleby

Most likely there's a catch all clause that makes anything you develop while employed by them, automatically their property. Most likely, you are precluded from engaging in any 'work' not related to your employment (being a bit liberal there with the legalese, but I had a similar setup years ago).

I personally think the onus was on you to provide handover documentation before moving. Or else disabling the facility, before moving. But you're gone now, so.....

This could pan out two ways:

Scenario 1. new boss tells old boss to take a hike. but with the caveat that you will handover everything, including if necessary the appropriate documentation for the old dept to continue to support your solution. This is the best outcome to my mind.


Scenario 2. new boss caves in and tells you to continue supporting the old solution whenever necessary, but takes no account of the additional time required to do this. loads of unpaid overtime for you. AND it leaves you at the beck and call of someone you went to the trouble of leaving.

Actually, the old boss by rights should be in a pickle here for permitting an unstable IT solution be incorporated into their processes - Change Management. It won't help you now, but remember it for the future.

So, my advice is to talk to your new manager immediately, outlining the situation, and press for scenario 1.

Good luck, and consider this an excellent learning experience. Being helpful is good, but don't leave yourself open like this again. (I learned, like you will, often a favour suddenly becomes an obligation)

edit: I see that some very sound posts were added while I was writing my own - should've actually posted it before going out to feed the boids!

NickNickleby

Jucifer wrote: »

This a million times over.

Speak with your manager first, then organise a handover, including some time to allocate to training up someone to maintain the code. Maintaining professional relationships with people you may not like personally is part of most people’s jobs. If there is a joint project between your old and new division or your old manger gets promoted over your area then you are not in the best situation.

Absolutely this, and not as unlikely as you might hope, particularly in a large organisation.

Anyway, good luck. Read all the posts here, learn from them.

daheff

Firstly, it was the OP's old bosses job to make sure a complete handover was done before the OP moved roles. The OP's new job spec may say nothing about the old role. In which case he isn't responsible to fix the problem. OP is paid to carry out tasks on new job spec (just be careful about the 'any other tasks as assigned' clause -but that needs to come from your new manager, or their superior).


In relation to the code -the OP is most likely required to give the source code over to the old manager/ the company as its probably their property. OP needs to check the contract to see.


Also OP should let new manager know of the situation.

ohnonotgmail

daheff wrote: »

Firstly, it was the OP's old bosses job to make sure a complete handover was done before the OP moved roles. The OP's new job spec may say nothing about the old role. In which case he isn't responsible to fix the problem. OP is paid to carry out tasks on new job spec (just be careful about the 'any other tasks as assigned' clause -but that needs to come from your new manager, or their superior).


In relation to the code -the OP is most likely required to give the source code over to the old manager/ the company as its probably their property. OP needs to check the contract to see.


Also OP should let new manager know of the situation.

absent a term in the contract to the contrary any software developed as part of their employment is owned by the company i.e. the company owns it unless there is a contract saying otherwise.

kurtainsider

The OP says:
"I was contacted by a previous manager (very bad history between us) and very rudely told to fix it."

I would be surprised if anyone with any bit of a backbone was "very rudely told" to fix something they would gather all the software, complete with all those helpful hints and tips, put it on a USB stick and hand it off to this ape of a boss. Why not advise him to put a nice ribbon on it and maybe include a box of chocolates while he/she's at it?

Why are so many posters so abject in their advice to the OP to squirm and crawl for a bully?

My advise: Let this twat whistle for his/her repair - at least until he/she has enough manners to ask politely

OMM 0000

kurtainsider wrote: »

Why are so many posters so abject in their advice to the OP to squirm and crawl for a bully?

The issue I have with this particular bit is we're only getting one side of the story.

I've been in management for about 10 years and I've seen so many deluded employees. They think they're being bullied but in fact they're just in denial of their own bad behaviour. (Note this has never happened to me, but I've seen it happening to other managers).

There was a good example of this here recently - a girl who thought it was totally fine to be cold to her manager, but then was confused as to why he was avoiding her. It was all his fault - he's a bully!

listermint

Did the OP not put together a hand over document before moving departments.

If not then you had to have known youd be called upon to assist.

You brought this in yourself tbh .

dr.fuzzenstein

OP, it's a now win scenario for you.
You have created a tool for yourself and now it's round your neck like a millstone.
If you hand it over, you'll be fixing it forever (honestly, I've never heard of code that breaks itself every few weeks, did you put a timer in there?) and if you don't, you come across as petulant and childish.
I'd say hand over the code, explain why it doesn't work and suggest they get someone to develop a proper solution.
That's why you should never develop you own solutions and processes at work. Best case, you'll be made responsible for maintenance indefinitely, worst case, you'll be accused of interfering with established processes and the smooth running of the company.
Bad idea.
If you want to implement changes, discuss them beforehand and plan their development and implementation, otherwise it's more trouble than it's worth.

mvl

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

OP, it's a now win scenario for you.
You have created a tool for yourself and now it's round your neck like a millstone.
If you hand it over, you'll be fixing it forever (honestly, I've never heard of code that breaks itself every few weeks, did you put a timer in there?) and if you don't, you come across as petulant and childish.
I'd say hand over the code, explain why it doesn't work and suggest they get someone to develop a proper solution.

Yeah - that was also my point: I'd suggest old manager secures resources OP would work with to get it fixed for good - same resources could then look at further automation for her department, when there is a need.

... If there is a communication problem between OP and the former manager - then someone else (like new manager) could handle negotiation about OPs availability ? I have no doubts the company would win on this, but as in when the time to get this fixed starts is a matter of prioritization.
There is only so much OP can do at a time.

RayCun

OP needs to grow up.

If you were working for a different company then you could hand over the code and tell them they should have organized a proper handover before you left. You would have to hand over the code.

But you are working for the same company. You are supposed to have the same goal at the end of the day. But your new manager is now going to see you as someone who makes things difficult for his coworkers.

Talk to your manager. Supply the code. Tell him you are happy to do handover training and to maintain the program as necessary, whenever he wants to fit it in your schedule.

LegacyUser

listermint wrote: »

Did the OP not put together a hand over document before moving departments.

If not then you had to have known youd be called upon to assist.

You brought this in yourself tbh .

Was the OP not requested to put together a hand over document during the notice period before moving department.

If not then the previous manager had to have known they may end up having to call upon an ex employee to assist.

Previous manager brought this upon themself tbh .