No wonder millennials can't afford a mortgage

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

Generally anyone who owns a house wont have any savings.............

Generally the only savings someone without a house has will be for a deposit or for future rent payments if they never buy.

MetzgerMeister

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Bandana boy

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Also access to cash was far harder , interest rates hit 18-20% in that time period

Grayson

Bandana boy wrote: »

Also access to cash was far harder , interest rates hit 18-20% in that time period

Someone posted the interest rates a page back. they weren't that high in 88.

daheff

EdgeCase wrote: »

They can't afford a mortgage because the previous generation spent all the money on a massive housing bubble and the banks and sector are trying to claw those losses back from the current generation.

You cant afford a mortgage because your wages are too low vs the cost of property. Central bank rules limit you to 3.5x salary. Maybe blame your employer for not paying you enough to buy a property (or your landlord for trying to take more of your income in rent).....or the people selling properties that are outside your limits. Its not because people are trying to claw back losses.

EdgeCase wrote: »

That avocado toast comment came from an Australian interview with someone lecturing the current generation for daring to complain about their housing bubble.

If people have to skip breakfast and are at the pin of the collar to afford housing, that is terrible for the economy! It means people have no disposable income and that means no money circulating and fewer jobs and less investment.

Telling people to stop spending money = no shops, no cafes, no restaurants, dying Main Streets in small towns and 3 jobs at Aldi and anything else ordered online at lowest price possible.

We need to have realistically priced homes that people can actually afford, not lecturing people about a bit of fruit and a slice of toast.

It's unbelievably patronising.

You missed Tim Gurner's point completely. He didnt suggest people go without breakfast!

His point was that Millennials expected to be able to buy property at ease and without any sacrifice. In days gone past (2000s boom time included) people saved hard to get together deposits.

He suggested that Millennials would be better able to afford property deposits by sacrificing these luxury items and saving the money instead. Its not patronising. Its common sense.

EdgeCase wrote: »

If we don't get a bit realistic about housing here we will at best choke off economic growth due to lack of accessible housing or, we will go head first into another financial crash.

A properly functioning country has housing at an affordable price and can manage to actually have a good lifestyle. Being able to afford an avocado is hardly the measure of extreme opulence.

I think whats really happened over the past 10-20 years is that companies are making higher profits than ever before but not passing increased wages back to employees.

In real terms employees are making less than previous generations, landlords are better able to increase rents to take more of your disposable income, there are more consumer products that are 'necessary' (new iphone every 12months??) so property is less affordable because you have less disposable income.

And because more companies (REITs) are buying up more property (in cash) the price of property is going to be unaffordable to individuals very soon. Companies are not subject to the 3.5x salary mortgage limits that individuals are.The only way to keep property affordable for people is to limit the amount of residential property that can be bought by companies.

troyzer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

draiochtanois wrote: »

1993 13.99%
1994 7.49%

What happened then? That's a massive drop.

The ERM band changed significantly in 1993. That's probably a factor.

daheff

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

the other thing you have to factor into this is demand and supply.


Back in the 80s there was no supply constraint like there is today.....but there wasnt huge demands either...people were emigrating in their droves still. When they stopped emigrating and people came back demand & supply curve changed and salary vs house price ratio changed.

if we have huge supply now, prices would not be where they are now.

ShadowHearth

As a chef, can I just say this: why the hell this deconstructed food is even a thing?!?! I though I am getting payed to construct food for people, so they dont need to do it themselves?!?!


Being a chef has a lot of drawbacks, but there is one big advantage: I work 12h shift and I wont spend a penny on food or coffee. I have my breakfast, lunch, dinner and all the coffee at work. My work expenses are only petrol and washing my uniforms.
I was shocked when I found out how much my misses can spend working in office on lunches and coffee. It can rack up very damn fast.

Bigmac1euro

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Back in the day stamp duty was much much more than what it is now.

Was it €312,500 ?

Billy86

andekwarhola wrote: »

For every millennial gag here, there's plenty of swipes about the supposedly entitled generation preceding it.

My sympathy is squarely with the people affected by the lack of social housing and dysfunctional rental sector. For home buyers who can't deal with being priced out to the suburbs and commuter belt, less so.

Just to be sure, you are aware that the dysfunctional rent sector is in no small part both a result of and contributor to the lack of options for first time buyers?

Bigmac1euro

daheff wrote: »

the other thing you have to factor into this is demand and supply.


Back in the 80s there was no supply constraint like there is today.....but there wasnt huge demands either...people were emigrating in their droves still. When they stopped emigrating and people came back demand & supply curve changed and salary vs house price ratio changed.

if we have huge supply now, prices would not be where they are now.

Look at the prices 12 years ago you’ll find we’re at the same price as we are now and there wasn’t a supply issue afaik

daheff

steo_magra wrote: »

Look at the prices 12 years ago you’ll find we’re at the same price as we are now and there wasn’t a supply issue afaik

really? so people weren't queuing for days for releases of properties?

James Brown

Trasna1 wrote: »

Do people think millennials are the first generation to waste money?

With their rock n' roll. A good war would sort them out!

Now lets loan builders money so they can sell us houses or rent back to us.

The Rape of Lucretia

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yeah that's what they have every morning for breakfast and nobody born before 1985 ever wastes money on food. There is no transfer of wealth that has happened over the past 30 years in favour of those who own property, its all about toast. Well done.

Self entitled millennials tend to get quite hung up about about 'transfer of wealth'. Its quite a hallmark.
Earning it themselves seems to be a difficult concept for them.

zell12

daheff wrote: »

really? so people weren't queuing for days for releases of properties?

There was not a supply issue, there was a credit boom where banks threw money at potential house buyers

The sandwiches/rolls I buy for lunch vary betweeen about 4.50 and 6 euro so I suooose I spend an average of around 5 euro a day on lunch. Well worth it imo.

Breakfast on weekdays is usually just a slice of bread from home (sometimes with a bit of avacado) and multiple mugs of tea (free at work). Might get a breakfast roll an odd day. Weekends make a fry most sat and sundays or if too hungover/lazy would get a breakfast roll.

I really don’t get why avacados are pointed out as a reason people can’t afforf a mortgage they are not expansive (and are very nice).

kylith

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Calculations are clearly flawed, avocados haven't been accounted for.

Just in case anyone is wondering: that's 446,428.571 avocados difference in price, or an avocado a day for 1,223 years.

And for anyone curious how many avocados you would need to not eat in order to save for a house: a deposit of €30,000 would be 42,857.1429 avocados. That is one avocado a day for 117.5 years. Maybe I'm unusual, but I don't think that I have over a century left to save up the deposit for a 2-bed in Crumlin. For a start, I'd be well into my pensionable years and unable to pay the mortgage.

cantdecide

At 36, I'm not a millenial but was stuck for four years living at home trying to save what was meant to be the beginnings of a mortgage doing *literally* a civil servant's job except for minimum wage (€1500/mth, btw) with no benefits while doing part time college saving fees of about €300/mth.

Now I have my degree and I'm looking at 12 month contracts looking for people with 3-5 years experience to earn €26-€28k to hopefully get enough experience between now and age 40 to get a €35-€40k job.

Maybe the problem is what I eat for breakfast. I'm giving up on saving for a house and thinking ahead to saving for my nursing home stay. But shur laugh it up, the sorted class will be paying for my pension.

scamalert

what does 50c avocado and 10cent bread have to do with mortgages ?
its stupid time to buy now as economy is back where it was in 2008, grand if one has public job with all the securities in place otherwise youd want to have full amount in cash whatever box your buying now.

andekwarhola

steo_magra wrote: »

1988 - average wage 25,000 pound
Average 3 bed house price 27,500 pound

2018 - average wage 45,000 euro
Average 3 bed house - 340,000 euro

This in Dublin of course. An economist on the radio the other day.

So yeah they had it easier back in the day by an absolute mile.

Was that average wage really 25k punt in 1988. Not disputing, just surprised. And what was the median I wonder.

lisasimpson

I dont like branding all young people the same but there is a group in that age segment who want everything right here right now. They want they flash apartment fancy wedding flash car nice holidays each year instantly. Some have no concept of savings or that life may suddenly get turned upside down..
A previous poster here said about all the new cars at the school gates. A lot are probably bought on PCPs which are the nexy buddle and the new negative equity. That buddle will bust in the next 1 or 2. Coupled with interest rates rising which is earmarked for the end of 2019 some people are in for a rude awaking

James Brown

cantdecide wrote: »

At 36, I'm not a millenial but was stuck for four years living at home trying to save what was meant to be the beginnings of a mortgage doing *literally* a civil servant's job except for minimum wage (€1500/mth, btw) with no benefits while doing part time college saving fees of about €300/mth.

Now I have my degree and I'm looking at 12 month contracts looking for people with 3-5 years experience to earn €26-€28k to hopefully get enough experience between now and age 40 to get a €35-€40k job.

Maybe the problem is what I eat for breakfast. I'm giving up on saving for a house and thinking ahead to saving for my nursing home stay. But shur laugh it up, the sorted class will be paying for my pension.

Avocados are your downfall. In my day we'd weetabix and we were glad to get it!

The average tax payer is being edged out of being able to provide for himself in the government pursuit of private wealth. There'll be no buying a house or renting soon without state assistance. We'll all be paying tax which will go to supporting renters and home buyers while the developers and FG/FF roll around in dough. But it'll be your fault for whinging and being self entitled. Or poor because you're lazy. And when the bottom falls out of it, it'll be your fault for going mad and partying.

troyzer

lisasimpson wrote: »

I dont like branding all young people the same but there is a group in that age segment who want everything right here right now. They want they flash apartment fancy wedding flash car nice holidays each year instantly. Some have no concept of savings or that life may suddenly get turned upside down..
A previous poster here said about all the new cars at the school gates. A lot are probably bought on PCPs which are the nexy buddle and the new negative equity. That buddle will bust in the next 1 or 2. Coupled with interest rates rising which is earmarked for the end of 2019 some people are in for a rude awaking

That doesn't just apply to millenials. That's across the board.

El_Duderino 09

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yeah that's what they have every morning for breakfast and nobody born before 1985 ever wastes money on food. There is no transfer of wealth that has happened over the past 30 years in favour of those who own property, its all about toast. Well done.

Self entitled millennials tend to get quite hung up about about 'transfer of wealth'. Its quite a hallmark.
Earning it themselves seems to be a difficult concept for them.

Yes and no. Old people are living longer which means they keep accumulating wealth. In the meantime they need pensions and health care which the working propel have to pay for.

Not to mention the fact that they vote conservatively which means they vote against progress in things they don't really understand or care about like gay marriage and social housing.

Bigmac1euro

andekwarhola wrote: »

Was that average wage really 25k punt in 1988. Not disputing, just surprised. And what was the median I wonder.

Well this is what I heard on 2fm I think it was.
This falls in line with what my dad paid in 89’
27k for a 3 bed 10 minutes drive (no traffic) from Dublin City centre. Very middle class area and yeah his wages were in and around 25k punt at that time. My mother didn’t work. All his friends and colleagues are the same I know them all quite well. All In very similar situations.
I’m on above the average wage now but I’m finding it very difficult to save. I’d be doing better than my dad was when he was younger but rent has me and house prices are ridiculous I’ll probably move abroad for a year, next year and continue to save while paying lower rent earning around the same somewhere else in Europe. Lease is also up next month which is worrying.
F*** Dublin in general but I do love the people, family and friends.

dxhound2005

There may have been a short time during the very popular Bertie Ahern governments where getting a mortgage was easy. Before that there were proper rules about lending, which made it very difficult. If it is very difficult again, it means that there won't be any need for bank bailouts or writing off mortgages for people who do not keep up repayments.

q85dw7osi4lebg

steo_magra wrote: »

Well this is what I heard on 2fm I think it was.
This falls in line with what my dad paid in 89’
27k for a 3 bed 10 minutes drive (no traffic) from Dublin City centre. Very middle class area and yeah his wages were in and around 25k punt at that time. My mother didn’t work. All his friends and colleagues are the same I know them all quite well. All In very similar situations.
I’m on above the average wage now but I’m finding it very difficult to save. I’d be doing better than my dad was when he was younger but rent has me and house prices are ridiculous I’ll probably move abroad for a year, next year and continue to save while paying lower rent earning around the same somewhere else in Europe. Lease is also up next month which is worrying.
F*** Dublin in general but I do love the people, family and friends.

Strange, since 3 bed bungalows in Meath were 50k in 1990.

daheff

zell12 wrote: »

There was not a supply issue, there was a credit boom where banks threw money at potential house buyers

if there was not a supply issue (where people wanted to live) then there would not have been queues overnight. simples

Bigmac1euro

Lincoln Cold Tremor wrote: »

Strange, since 3 bed bungalows in Meath were 50k in 1990.

Hahahaha ! Good one.

amcalester

Lincoln Cold Tremor wrote: »

Strange, since 3 bed bungalows in Meath were 50k in 1990.

4 bed bungalow in Louth c. £60K in 91/92.

Bigmac1euro

Note unit pricing is in Euro.
Also this is the average my father paid below average house had a lot of work.

Cabaal

Trasna1 wrote: »

Do people think millennials are the first generation to waste money?

It seems many very stupid people do believe this is the case.

Bigmac1euro

steo_magra wrote: »

Note unit pricing is in Euro.
Also this is the average my father paid below average house had a lot of work.

Apologies this screenshot may appear clearer.

Bitches Be Trypsin

I feed myself for €20 a week and manage to eat quite well, yes I'm a millennial!

Subcomandante Marcos

average_runner wrote: »

Do you think it was cheap in the 2000's when we had to buy them? Our's cost 450,000.

And banks were handing out mortgages like ****ing goodie bags.

Try_harder

Luckily I'm NOT a Millennial, and I bought my house during the crash. I don't even them, but the greed from some of the Baby Boomer generation is disgusting.

kunst nugget

Try_harder wrote: »

Luckily I'm NOT a Millennial, and I bought my house during the crash. I don't even them, but the greed from some of the Baby Boomer generation is disgusting.

What Baby Boomer generation? The one over in America? Because that didn't exist in Ireland.

andekwarhola

amcalester wrote: »

4 bed bungalow in Louth c. £60K in 91/92.

Found this article from 1989 that mentions semis in terenure going for between 57k to 90+ k. Terenure is a middle class area about 3 or 4 miles from Dublin City centre.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/rising-dublin-house-prices-in-the-1980s-from-the-archives-may-16th-1989-1.2212646

q85dw7osi4lebg

andekwarhola wrote: »

Found this article from 1989 that mentions semis in terenure going for between 57k to 90+ k. Terenure is a middle class area about 3 or 4 miles from Dublin City centre.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/rising-dublin-house-prices-in-the-1980s-from-the-archives-may-16th-1989-1.2212646

Good article, that's 2-3 times the 27k price mentioned above.

andekwarhola

Lincoln Cold Tremor wrote: »

Good article, that's 2-3 times the 27k price mentioned above.

I think I vaguely remember my parents saying around 87 or a bit later that neighbours (that moved) paid 50k for a house in one of the settled parts of Tallaght near the village.

Remember it because I remember thinking it was such a big amount of money as you did when young.

The coalition government at the time gave housing grants, of 5k I think, to council tenants to move out and buy their own houses which would be accurate enough given it was 10%.

SEPT 23 1989

Starter homes mid 90's

Lucan/ Clondalkin 30 -35k punts

The next step late 90's

Walkinstown 55k

Done on one income

300k - 450k now

andekwarhola

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Starter homes mid 90's

Lucan/ Clondalkin 30 -35k punts

The next step late 90's

Walkinstown 55k

Done on one income

300k - 450k now

180 about 6 years ago. Just hold on a few years

tabby aspreme

andekwarhola wrote: »

Found this article from 1989 that mentions semis in terenure going for between 57k to 90+ k. Terenure is a middle class area about 3 or 4 miles from Dublin City centre.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/rising-dublin-house-prices-in-the-1980s-from-the-archives-may-16th-1989-1.2212646

In 1989 a single person would have had great difficulty paying a 60k mortgage with the interest rate level and the paye rate, back then I could gross 400 on a good week, but would take home 200.

Try_harder

kunst nugget wrote: »

What Baby Boomer generation? The one over in America? Because that didn't exist in Ireland.

Well Millennial and Gen X are the given terms also why object to baby boomers?

Bigmac1euro

Lincoln Cold Tremor wrote: »

Good article, that's 2-3 times the 27k price mentioned above.

It says in that article a house went for 57k after a 77% increase in 12 months

P_1

andekwarhola wrote: »

I think I vaguely remember my parents saying around 87 or a bit later that neighbours (that moved) paid 50k for a house in one of the settled parts of Tallaght near the village.

Remember it because I remember thinking it was such a big amount of money as you did when young.

The coalition government at the time gave housing grants, of 5k I think, to council tenants to move out and buy their own houses which would be accurate enough given it was 10%.

Remember the folks saying they paid 13k for a 3 bed in Donaghmede in 84

Franz Von Peppercorn

tabby aspreme wrote: »

In 1989 a single person would have had great difficulty paying a 60k mortgage with the interest rate level and the paye rate, back then I could gross 400 on a good week, but would take home 200.

Houses in Terenure now sell for up to 1M. Why use that as an example. Middle income north side areas (excluding howth abd maybe Clontarf) would be more interesting.

fergus1001

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

somefeen

fergus1001 wrote: »

going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here

anyone in Dublin on the housing list and who does not have a job in Dublin should be relocated to the Midlands or west were rent is cheaper, It is unacceptable that my tax euros goes to house people in Dublin who are not contributing while I cannot afford a house in kildare while I am working and paying tax

That's a good point but the theory is that keeping people close to their families and parents contributes to a sense of community and stops the elderly from becoming isolated.

I think they take it to far though. When I went on the housing list in Cork I was asked to rank the suburb I wanted to live in. Corks not exactly massive so why does it matter?

q85dw7osi4lebg

somefeen wrote: »

That's a good point but the theory is that keeping people close to their families and parents contributes to a sense of community and stops the elderly from becoming isolated.

I think they take it to far though. When I went on the housing list in Cork I was asked to rank the suburb I wanted to live in. Corks not exactly massive so why does it matter?

So those paying taxes shouldn't be able to afford to live near their parents, but they pay for others to do so??