End of DEAP 3

descol

Hi - Can anyone identify the last date when it will not be possible to upload a BER via DEAP 3 - help desk has not responded to the query !
thanks

Metric Tensor

They have a note on their website saying they won't "support" DEAP 3 after December but it doesn't say that you can't still use it. They are being vague about that.

I have briefly logged in to DEAP 4 and I was so dismayed by what I saw I closed it down and put it on the long finger. It seems to be a lot more work - rates will definitely have to go up when it becomes mandatory.

Can you update this thread when/if you get a response?

descol

Thanks for that MT
Yes- DEAP 4 is more work - certainly more time consuming - both on site and at the Desk - I have done a trail run on it - but - I would like to leave it in the Alligator tray for a long as possible

caesarthechimp

I suspect the end of Deap 3 will come when a "sufficient" number of assessors are using Deap 4.
If we were civil servant employees there would be a weeks training course on full pay, and then extra pay for adopting completely new work practices.

But as we aren't, its just a case of "totally new system now lads, download it yourselves and good luck with that".
The usual caveat of "if you don't comply, there's plenty more out there who will" is starting to wear a bit thin, as the number of registered assessors has depleted over the years.

Metric Tensor

I doubt they will wait for "sufficient" numbers - my bet is that they will select an arbitrary cut-off date that suits their own schedules and targets. As far as I can see DEAP 4 is entirely set up to assist the administrators of the scheme in their various aims at the expense of the assessors.

I assume the prevailing wisdom is that the rate of hemorrhage of assessors will continue until market forces rise the rates for the few remaining assessors to a level that makes being an assessor worthwhile. Time will tell!

sydthebeat

all they have to do is flick a switch, so im not expecting any critical mass to be required before they switch over.
my auditors have told me to expect it before the end of the year.

as long as they leave DEAP 3 available and upgraded as necessary to check for Part L compliance i dont mind.... and ill probably be throwing an extra €50 / €75 onto each assessment to allow for the DEAP 4 fukaboutery ......

caesarthechimp

Add onto that the fact SEAI are increasing the cert publication levy from €22.50 to €30 in January.
The consumer can expect significant price rises soon.


Sometimes when you "flick a switch" you are left in darkness.

That's why I think they are reluctant to do it while insufficient assessors have adopted the new system.

Metric Tensor

I doubt they'll update DEAP 3 to calculate the RER for next year's TGD L 2019 Syd ... It will still do EPC and CPC until they change some calculation procedure and I suppose one could calculate the RER by hand.

sydthebeat

Dear Assessor,
SEAI wishes to notify BER Assessors of the following upcoming changes:
DEAP 4 Update
SEAI is reviewing all feedback received since the launch of DEAP 4, and this feedback is being used to further develop and enhance the software. These enhancements will be deployed in early 2019 to coincide with the upcoming changes to Part L of the Building Regulations and to the DEAP methodology.
We encourage Assessors to continue to familiarise themselves with DEAP4.
Retirement of DEAP 3
BER assessors can continue to publish BERs using DEAP 3.2.1 until further notified by SEAI. DEAP 3.2.1 will not be retired until after DEAP 4 has been updated and a transition period observed. SEAI will provide Assessors with a sufficient notice period in advance of this retirement.
Upcoming changes to Part L of the Building Regulations (Dwellings)
A revised Part L of the Building Regulations will likely be signed into law shortly. These regulations will set new compliance requirements for the energy performance of new and existing dwellings. For more information please see the dedicated NZEB section on the SEAI website: https://www.seai.ie/sustainable-solutions/nearly-zero-energy-buildi-1/
Upcoming changes to DEAP methodology
As part of the changes to the Regulations, the DEAP methodology will be updated. The update which will be to DEAP 4 only will include the following:
• Updated assumed occupancy level per square metre of dwelling;
• A renewable energy ratio calculation to demonstrate compliance with the TGD L 2018 renewable requirement for new dwellings;
• An updated lighting calculation to allow a more accurate representation of the energy use associated with the lighting within the dwelling;
• An updated hot water demand calculation;
• The inclusion of an efficiency adjustment factor for MVHR systems where ductwork outside the insulated dwelling envelope is uninsulated;
• The inclusion of instantaneous waste water heat recovery systems in the calculation;
• The inclusion of two main heating systems and a secondary room heater for individual dwellings where applicable.
Further information is available in the document ‘Proposed Changes to the DEAP Methodology for Part L 2018 Public Consultation’ on the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government website. https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/public-consultation/files/part_l_public_consultation_deap_methodology_for_nzeb.pdf
Heat pump calculation tool
SEAI are currently working to incorporate the heat pump calculation tool into the DEAP4 software and this will be launched in 2019.
Training workshops
Prior to the retirement of DEAP 3.2.1, SEAI will be delivering training workshops in a number of locations around the country for registered assessors. Training workshops will include inputting an assessment in DEAP 4 and the upcoming changes to the DEAP methodology. Assessors will be advised of the location & date of the DEAP 4 workshops once these details have been finalised.
If you have any further questions or queries then please don’t hesitate to contact us by sending an email to registered@ber.seai.ie or calling 1890 252 738.
Kind regards,
BER Helpdesk

caesarthechimp

That's starting to shed a bit more light on it alright.

caesarthechimp

sydthebeat wrote: »

Prior to the retirement of DEAP 3.2.1, SEAI will be delivering training workshops in a number of locations around the country for registered assessors. Training workshops will include inputting an assessment in DEAP 4 and the upcoming changes to the DEAP methodology. Assessors will be advised of the location & date of the DEAP 4 workshops once these details have been finalised

Got an email this morning at 10.45am advising of ticket availability for these, so decided to book early. Tried to get a ticket at 12.45 but all the Dublin region ones are "sold out".
In less than 2 hours! Must be more sought after than an Elvis Presley concert... with the real Elvis.

sydthebeat

caesarthechimp wrote: »

Got an email this morning at 10.45am advising of ticket availability for these, so decided to book early. Tried to get a ticket at 12.45 but all the Dublin region ones are "sold out".
In less than 2 hours! Must be more sought after than an Elvis Presley concert... with the real Elvis.

i signed up immediatly for the Athlone one, as it was the closest to me when i woudl be available.

a full day is quite an inverstment to give to it, but hopefully the new version of DEAP 4 is a lot more user friendly that the abomonation that was 4.0

Metric Tensor

sydthebeat wrote: »

i signed up immediatly for the Athlone one, as it was the closest to me when i woudl be available.

See you there syd!!


Agreed re the DEAP 4.0 abomination!


The proposed timeline for bringing the new one into force and retiring DEAP 3 is VERY tight.



https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Roadmap-for-DEAP-4.2.0.pdf

caesarthechimp

Metric Tensor wrote: »

The proposed timeline for bringing the new one into force and retiring DEAP 3 is VERY tight.

Deap 4 was supposed to be operational by August but now they have pushed that forward to September. What's the story, is it full of bugs or what?


But they are still proposing to retire Deap 3 in October.
And without providing an adequate number of places on the training courses for Deap 4.


I see the new CEO at SEAI is leaving already. They seem to have a very high turnover for that job. Its hard to keep up with who's in charge.


https://www.thejournal.ie/retrofit-energy-grant-4764562-Aug2019/?utm_source=email

sydthebeat

caesarthechimp wrote: »

They seem to have a very high turnover for that job. Its hard to keep up with who's in charge.

from talking to guys who are involved in SEAI, it seems turnover at management level is a huge problem. Its seen as a stepping stone in the civil service to better things.

that leaves the foot soldiers being the actual policy translators, trying to run the system with feck all direction from above. The auditing scheme seems particularly hit with this turnover.