Fr McVerry supporting lessons in how to occupy properties

TheCitizen

markodaly wrote: »

rent control
local council rules regarding building heights
ban on bedsits
dual aspect apartments
huge levies on landlords


yet, its the 'free market' that is at fault.

Right so.

If you think the free market unfettered is the answer to these issues then you're entirely delusional.

NIMAN

TheCitizen wrote: »

You say they should do this and they should do that to make it more possible that young people can buy houses and rent while saving for mortgages within the M50. They're not doing that ("Loosen the building regs, allow denser building etc.") is the whole point.

It doesn't matter if you think it is whingeing. If the protest gains enough traction and support then those in charge may finally get the finger out and do something about affordable accommodation in this country as well as taxing landlords who are sitting on vacant premises.

Those involved in the protest are engaging with the issue and hoping to engage wider support, you'll just sit there and moan about them. You're the one that's whinging pal.

But is it not Sinn Fein who are in majority control of DCC, who have the power to make these changes?

TheCitizen

NIMAN wrote: »

But is it not Sinn Fein who are in majority control of DCC, who have the power to make these changes?

Are you a blueshirt NIMAN?

Link up on what you're speculating on there otherwise I will regard you as being disingenuous and party politically pointscoring on this issue.

BBFAN

corner of hells wrote: »

I work in homeless services and have met that man a number of times over the years and consistently found him to be arrogant and rude.
Ive him treat his own staff and staff from other agencies like dog ****e.
He's retired now but the banana that runs PMVT isn't much better.

His attitude is that homeless addicts , this who I work with , are some how above the law.

Maybe his attitude is that the homeless addict is more important than staff are which is your real problem?

The homeless addict should be more important, they're your customer. :rolleyes:

VinLieger

TheCitizen wrote: »

If you think the free market unfettered is the answer to these issues then you're entirely delusional.

The point is the free market isnt 100% to blame as some people like to make out

Turnipman

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Clearly you need to stop watching Faux News and American idiots who don't bother reading the bits before or after the quotes they mine for to use out of context.

For the record, my post provided a link to the complete context.

However, I do apologise, firstly for not including the text in full, given your evident inability to look up a reference unless your special needs assistant is around and secondly for wrongly assuming that most of the people reading this thread would have at least some passing acquaintance with the New Testament.

markodaly

TheCitizen wrote: »

If you think the free market unfettered is the answer to these issues then you're entirely delusional.

I don't, but at least acknowledge that there is no free market when it comes to the provision of housing and accommodation. There are thousands of laws and rules governing this, so there is no free market.

If we looked at 2 or 3 of those rules, the homeless and rent issue would be nowhere near as bad as it is. But somehow its the fault of the free market.

VinLieger

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you a blueshirt NIMAN?

Link up on what you're speculating on there otherwise I will regard you as being disingenuous and party politically pointscoring on this issue.

The government does not set build height standards or density for the city thats is the responsibility of the city councils along with the building of social housing. SF are the largest party in DCC and have a majority vote coupled with PBP and the rest of the smaller parties/independents where is their leadership on this issue in Dublin? What measures have they passed? What houses have they built?

Turnipman

NIMAN wrote: »

But is it not Sinn Fein who are in majority control of DCC, who have the power to make these changes?

That's a very unfair assumption!

In Ireland, the lollipop ladies outside national schools have far more power than elected councillors have.

About the apex of the powers of any elected councillor is arranging for a Palestinian flag to be flown from a DCC-owned building - subject to planning permission, of course!

They can also offer the Freedom of the City to various waifs and strays which offers them the opportunity to garner some cheap publicity and to dress up in their robes of office.

markodaly

VinLieger wrote: »

What measures have they passed? What houses have they built?

Well they did vote to fly the Palestine flag over city hall.

markodaly

Turnipman wrote: »

That's a very unfair assumption!

In Ireland, the lollipop ladies outside national schools have far more power than elected councillors have.

An unfair assumption. It is the local councils who enact and pass planning laws and guidelines.
DCC have been terrible at this, so much so that the Dept. of Environment is go ahead issuing their own guidelines to superceed that of DCC, which means higher apartment blocks, meaning more apartments.

They also voted to reduce property tax by 15%, and then complain about the lack of funds...

Wheeliebin30

Turnipman wrote: »

That's a very unfair assumption!

In Ireland, the lollipop ladies outside national schools have far more power than elected councillors have.

About the of the powers of any elected councillor is arranging for a Palestinian flag to be flown from a DCC-owned building - subject to planning permission, of course!

They can also offer the Freedom of the City to various waifs and strays which offers them the opportunity to garner some cheap publicity and to dress up in their robes of office.

Well all that is a complete lie.

NIMAN

TheCitizen wrote: »

Are you a blueshirt NIMAN?

Link up on what you're speculating on there otherwise I will regard you as being disingenuous and party politically pointscoring on this issue.

I'm not an anything. Just a citizen like yourself.

In fact I am originally from NI, so have no political preferences this side of the border. I just like to see politicians and councillors do what they are supposed to, and that they are called out when they don't.

I'm simply pointing out that, afaik and I stand open to correction on this, that Dublin City Council, who could make things happen in regard to the housing crisis in the capital, is controlled by SF, yet we often see them front and centre when it comes to complaining about the issue.

Am I wrong? If I am, I will gladly accept any criticism and education given.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

An unfair assumption. It is the local councils who enact and pass planning laws and guidelines.
DCC have been terrible at this, so much so that the Dept. of Environment is go ahead issuing their own guidelines to superceed that of DCC, which means higher apartment blocks, meaning more apartments.

They also voted to reduce property tax by 15%, and then complain about the lack of funds...

Didn't FG/FF Vote in tandem with them though

Sinn Fein - the largest party on the council - along with Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and People Before Profit voted against the increase which was defeated by 42 votes to 11.

jjmcclure

Would be great if we could have US style "defend your property" laws in Ireland for just a fortnight. Let the landlords go in and shoot the wasters, imagine what we would save in dole, single parents allowance etc. Would also put a dent on the number of dope smokers in the city!!

TheCitizen

markodaly wrote: »

I don't, but at least acknowledge that there is no free market when it comes to the provision of housing and accommodation. There are thousands of laws and rules governing this, so there is no free market.

If we looked at 2 or 3 of those rules, the homeless and rent issue would be nowhere near as bad as it is. But somehow its the fault of the free market.

We need to regulate is the point you appear to be advocating unfettered or at least more power to the ‘free market’ forces and less regulation. We need better regulation not less regulation

markodaly

TheCitizen wrote: »

We need to regulate is the point you appear to be advocating unfettered or at least more power to the ‘free market’ forces and less regulation. We need better regulation not less regulation

Better regulation, not less.
When has that ever really worked?

The free market in Ireland is a myth. There is no free market, because of all the rules and regulations, yet people blame the free market.

Johnny Dogs

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Didn't FG/FF Vote in tandem with them though

Very true.

But FG/FF are regularly condemned as the party of landlords and the rich.

Id have expected SF who are constantly loudly complaining about homelessness to take a stand and raise the funds needed to end it.

VinLieger

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Very true.

But FG/FF are regularly condemned as the party of landlords and the rich.

Id have expected SF who are constantly loudly complaining about homelessness to take a stand and raise the funds needed to end it.

They obviously should, they have the ability to fund a swathe of projects that could help the problem in many ways but due to the stink they stupidly raised about property taxes they couldn't face voters if they did it as it would mean admiting they lied to them.

TheCitizen

markodaly wrote: »

Better regulation, not less.
When has that ever really worked?

It might work if they tried it, they haven't is the point.

markodaly wrote: »

The free market in Ireland is a myth. There is no free market, because of all the rules and regulations, yet people blame the free market.

:pac: Unbelievable crap. The provision of housing has been increasingly left in the hands of the private industry and you're saying they should get more power over it and even less in control of the state?

Other countries and big cities in them seem to be able to manage the housing issue for their citizens a lot better, perhaps we should be looking at other models instead of arguing about Left versus Right and tedious party political mudslinging.

TheCitizen

jjmcclure wrote: »

Would be great if we could have US style "defend your property" laws in Ireland for just a fortnight. Let the landlords go in and shoot the wasters, imagine what we would save in dole, single parents allowance etc. Would also put a dent on the number of dope smokers in the city!!

I know you're trying to be funny but it appears that there's a good few around here who want Ireland to go fully down the USA route in terms of housing and probably with health and other matters. The disgusting and stupid "I'm alright Jack attitude" that undermines communities and cheapens life for everyone across the board.

VinLieger

TheCitizen wrote: »

It might work if they tried it, they haven't is the point.


:pac: Unbelievable crap. The provision of housing has been increasingly left in the hands of the private industry and you're saying they should get more power over it and even less in control of the state?

Other countries and big cities in them seem to be able to manage the housing issue for their citizens a lot better, perhaps we should be looking at other models instead of arguing about Left versus Right and tedious party political mudslinging.

Less regulation doesnt mean handing things over completely to the private sector either.

However lets discuss other countries, take Germany the holy grail of renting, they have an ownership rate of 40% with 60% renting, that's half of what we do with 80% owning and 20% renting. Also they have reduced their social housing builds to negligible amounts and yet they don't have problems in that regard either proving social housing as we currently run it is not required either.



So given the right regulation private and specifically co-housing models could be what we need, but then we come back to party sniping as those on the left and people like yourself will only shout and scream about social housing and refuse to consider other options even when they have proven to work in multiple countries quite well, ie Germany and Denmark

Chris_Heilong

I think we have to start building outwards and expand Dublin city, not find any available land/park/football pitch and start developing housing, most capital cities around the world have crazy prices for renting and Dublin is no different, Most of the country want to live in Dublin because that is were the jobs are so maybe try to encourage more jobs on the outskirts.

TheCitizen

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm not an anything. Just a citizen like yourself.

In fact I am originally from NI, so have no political preferences this side of the border. I just like to see politicians and councillors do what they are supposed to, and that they are called out when they don't.

I'm simply pointing out that, afaik and I stand open to correction on this, that Dublin City Council, who could make things happen in regard to the housing crisis in the capital, is controlled by SF, yet we often see them front and centre when it comes to complaining about the issue.

Am I wrong? If I am, I will gladly accept any criticism and education given.

I saw this discussed on The Tonight Show the other night and that little toerag Willie O'Dea and Louise O'Reilly, I don't think it was as simple as you and other posters here made it out to be.

Besides, FF and FG have been leading every government since the foundation of the state including one propping the other up in this one, it's hilarious to see their fanboys on here try to blame SF for the housing crisis.

VinLieger

TheCitizen wrote: »

I saw this discussed on The Tonight Show the other night and that little toerag Willie O'Dea and Louise O'Reilly, I don't think it was as simple as you and other posters here made it out to be.

Besides, FF and FG have been leading every government since the foundation of the state including one propping the other up in this one, it's hilarious to see their fanboys on here try to blame SF for the housing crisis.

SF arent to blame for it, they bear partial responsibility for not doing enough to help fix it in Dublin.



You do like twisting peoples words don't you?

TheCitizen

VinLieger wrote: »

Less regulation doesnt mean handing things over completely to the private sector either.

However lets discuss other countries, take Germany the holy grail of renting, they have an ownership rate of 40% with 60% renting, that's half of what we do with 80% owning and 20% renting. Also they have reduced their social housing builds to negligible amounts and yet they don't have problems in that regard either proving social housing as we currently run it is not required either.



So given the right regulation private and specifically co-housing models could be what we need, but then we come back to party sniping as those on the left and people like yourself will only shout and scream about social housing and refuse to consider other options even when they have proven to work in multiple countries quite well, ie Germany and Denmark

Can you stop putting words in my mouth pal?

I'm willing to look at other models and apply the one's that work best.

http://www.thejournal.ie/co-housing-3798698-Jan2018/

It also appears you are being disingenuous about 'co housing models' in Denmark and Germany. These models have public state support. You're making out that there's no state intervention in the housing market in those countries at all. That looks to be a lie on your part.

whatnext

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Most people don't want 'free houses' - they just want to be able to work and live in Dublin at an affordable cost.

I assure you most people, if not everyone wants a free house. Who the hell would pay for a house if it was possible to get one for free..........

I would gladly take a free house.

jjmcclure

TheCitizen wrote: »

I know you're trying to be funny but it appears that there's a good few around here who want Ireland to go fully down the USA route in terms of housing and probably with health and other matters. The disgusting and stupid "I'm alright Jack attitude" that undermines communities and cheapens life for everyone across the board.

Its simple. If you are able bodied, get a job, pay your taxes, live where you can afford and
CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!


Social welfare if for those who "can't" not those who "won't"

VinLieger

TheCitizen wrote: »

Can you stop putting words in my mouth pal?

I'm willing to look at other models and apply the one's that work best.

http://www.thejournal.ie/co-housing-3798698-Jan2018/

It also appears you are being disingenuous about 'co housing models' in Denmark and Germany. These models have public state support. You're making out that there's no state intervention in the housing market in those countries at all. That looks to be a lie on your part.

No I said theres no social housing as we have it now.

Talk about putting words in other peoples mouths, youve done it again there and have been constantly doing it for the last 2 pages

TheCitizen

jjmcclure wrote: »

Its simple. If you are able bodied, get a job, pay your taxes, live where you can afford and
CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!


Social welfare if for those who "can't" not those who "won't"

:pac: If only life was so simple pal. A lot of people being priced out of the housing market have a job and pay their taxes etc.

You haven't been paying attention have you Rightist snowflake?

TheCitizen

VinLieger wrote: »

No I said theres no social housing as we have it now.

Talk about putting words in other peoples mouths, youve done it again there and have been constantly doing it for the last 2 pages

It's social housing of a different form is that the point your making? Fine lets look at those models and see if they fit.

The "social housing as we have it now" in Ireland is already negligible.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: If only life was so simple pal. A lot of people being priced out of the housing market have a job and pay their taxes etc.

You haven't been paying attention have you Rightist snowflake?

I'm torn here.

This post is a strange mix, one point I am in total agreement, people who work being priced out of housing and the next line which is totally childish and stupid.

TheCitizen

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I'm torn here.

This post is a strange mix, one point I am in total agreement, people who work being priced out of housing and the next line which is totally childish and stupid.

It was in response to the other poster. Look it up there.

Skylinehead

TheCitizen wrote: »

It was in response to the other poster. Look it up there.

Mod: Yeah, stop.

bloodless_coup

TheCitizen wrote: »

Rightist snowflake

This expression seems to be all the rage here over the last few days.

And it doesn't even make sense. Right leaning and Snowflake are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

begbysback

jjmcclure wrote: »

Its simple. If you are able bodied, get a job, pay your taxes, live where you can afford and
CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!


Social welfare if for those who "can't" not those who "won't"

I believe disability allowance is for those who can't work, and I've seen people who have jobs and won't work

biko

"Take back the city" - from whom exactly?

Sounds like a bad reprise of "Reclaim the city" which also was a Marxist movement dividing the perceived "disadvantaged" against their perceived enemy "the rich".

Turnipman

TheCitizen wrote: »

I saw this discussed on The Tonight Show the other night and that little toerag Willie O'Dea and Louise O'Reilly

A well-matched pair. If people could live in hot air balloons then between the pair of them they'd have solved the housing crisis many times over by now.

McMurphy

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Very true.

But FG/FF are regularly condemned as the party of landlords and the rich.

Id have expected SF who are constantly loudly complaining about homelessness to take a stand and raise the funds needed to end it.

Hard to know what is the biggest shocker here tbh.

A party who opposed tooth and nail, any notion of a property tax being introduced, and who vowed to reduce it at any given opportunity - doing so.

Or FG/FF voting with the shinners and other 'loony left/hard left' (delete as appropriate) to reduce said property tax.

Or lastly - FG shills posting on the internet about the shinners reducing it, and maybe secretly hoping they wouldn't be called out on it/or were oblivious to their own team doing likewise.

It's a tricky one, I'll give you that.

TheCitizen

doylefe wrote: »

This expression seems to be all the rage here over the last few days.

And it doesn't even make sense. Right leaning and Snowflake are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake

Snowflake was originally a term coined by Rightist's to pan those who they saw on The Left because they accused them of always 'complaining about stuff etc.'

However in my experience it is often those on The Right who are often complaining about changes in society these days, witness some of those complaining about people engaging in protests about the housing problems on this country.

In my view (whether you agree with their methods or not) those engaging in protests are being proactive and bringing attention to the issues involved whereas as those sitting on the sidelines complaining about those involved in the protests are the moaning 'snowflakes' in this instance.

jjmcclure

TheCitizen wrote: »

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake

Snowflake was originally a term coined by Rightist's to pan those who they saw on The Left because they accused them of always 'complaining about stuff etc.'

However in my experience it is often those on The Right who are often complaining about changes in society these days, witness some of those complaining about people engaging in protests about the housing problems on this country.

In my view (whether you agree with their methods or not) those engaging in protests are being proactive and bringing attention to the issues involved whereas as those sitting on the sidelines complaining about those involved in the protests are the moaning 'snowflakes' in this instance.

Respect the law
Respect property rights
Get out of those peoples/landlords/companies houses


Who the hell has time to be "occupying" a vacant property anyway?? Go to work!


If some of these protesters put as much effort into making a life for THEMSELVES instead of waiting for handouts they'd be much better off.

Hitman3000

jjmcclure wrote:

Who the hell has time to be "occupying" a vacant property anyway?? Go to work!

They could be shift workers. Assuming they are jobless is just lazy commentary on your behalf .

TheCitizen

jjmcclure wrote: »

Respect the law
Respect property rights
Get out of those peoples/landlords/companies houses


Who the hell has time to be "occupying" a vacant property anyway?? Go to work!


If some of these protesters put as much effort into making a life for THEMSELVES instead of waiting for handouts they'd be much better off.

They're mainly students by the looks of it and how do yo know if they work or not, they could work just as hard as you do or perhaps much much harder than you, who knows?

You appear to want them to keep their heads down and get on with it etc.. They want change to the housing and accommodation system and they're engaging in protest as part of the fight to bring about that change.

They're engaging in the subject matter of the housing crisis and fair play to them for giving their time and effort to publicise it. They appear to be upsetting you in the process.

meathstevie

markodaly wrote: »

Enough profit to justify the risk. If the risk profile is too much for a landlord at a given price they will raise their rent accordingly.

Most landlords wants a steady income, that is all. Nevermind that landlords wont see 40c on the euro as take-home income.

40% gross profit ? Are you dreaming ? If you enter into any commercial activity expecting profit margins like that you're bound for a quick wake up call.

jjmcclure

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They could be shift workers. Assuming they are jobless is just lazy commentary on your behalf .

Eh .. yeah...right.


This is not about change to the housing system, its about entitlement culture that has infected a country that once placed value in hard work and success.


Why do we have a housing crisis?? Not enough houses. How to solve it?? Build more. How do we build more? Incentivise builders and citizens with savings to invest.


This is not about social justice, its simple supply and demand.

Hitman3000

jjmcclure wrote:

Eh .. yeah...right.

Whether I'm right or you are right is irrelevant as neither of us know. Unlike you I don't make lazy assumptions to fit an agenda or narrative.

jjmcclure

TheCitizen wrote: »

They're mainly students by the looks of it and how do yo know if they work or not, they could work just as hard as you do or perhaps much much harder than you, who knows?

You appear to want them to keep their heads down and get on with it etc.. They want change to the housing and accommodation system and they're engaging in protest as part of the fight to bring about that change.

They're engaging in the subject matter of the housing crisis and fair play to them for giving their time and effort to publicise it. They appear to be upsetting you in the process.

Yawn...


Rabble-rousers with an axe to grind with anyone and everyone. Drawing resources from already over stretched Gardai and courts.


There time could be better spent. e.g. Ms Cash outside the Dail, what an absolute joke, never has, never will contribute a cent to Irish society.

jjmcclure

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Whether I'm right or you are right is irrelevant as neither of us know. Unlike you I don't make lazy assumptions to fit an agenda or narrative.

I can safely assume any hard working person, on shift work or not, has better things to be doing with their spare time.

Hitman3000

jjmcclure wrote:

I can safely assume any hard working person, on shift work or not, has better things to be doing with their spare time.

Stop doubling down on your ignorance you don't know so can assume nothing. I work shifts and have taken part in many protests down through the years and heard this go to work bs from people like you on multiple occasions. Again lazy ignorant commentary.

jjmcclure

jjmcclure wrote: »

I can safely assume any hard working person, on shift work or not, has better things to be doing with their spare time.

And if that hard working person is now getting absolutely rode with the rent that they have to pay these days??

Some of the rents are insane.

I dont agree with all of the protesters guff but its important to protest this.