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Begging in the city
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20-09-2018 11:46am#1I'll tell ye this much, I'm beginning to think I'm a bit of a chump. Work is for absolute idiots.
Last Sunday, there were 11 beggers on the street between Penny's and AIB on O'Connell Street. Eleven.
One of them wearing nice jeans and a pair of Nikes. Another with an iPhone. I took the youngfella to the doctors today and noted a women in nice clothes buying perfume in Superdrug - the same women sitting beside a bin on Sunday.
It's a scam. A sham. They either don't want to be helped or they are making fools of everyone.
I'd wager there are very few beggars who actually truly want to do better for themselves. Call me heartless, but I believe in helping those that WANT help, not these parasites.17
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Give em f__ck all, if everyone gives them nothing, wont be worth their while. Personally never give them one cent.
I work hard for my money very very hard, and like you I'm not falling for beggers sitting in the best of gear on the footpath0 -
I think if you're sitting beside a bin all day begging people for money, you must be in a pretty desperate situation. If you can become such a millionaire off it as you suggest Future Guy why don't you give up your job and beg all day? The simple truth is no one sits in the middle of Limerick city to beg for money unless they are desperate and impoverished in some way. These people are not living it large no matter what type of myths people want to peddle.0
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I think if you're sitting beside a bin all day begging people for money, you must be in a pretty desperate situation. /QUOTE]
Unfortunately, this is what they want you to think. See this link for the problems Cork is having. We're no different here in Limerick.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/36-arrests-as-part-of-crackdown-on-commercial-begging-in-cork-city-851160.html
By not giving them anything, they (if they are truly impoverished) will seek proper help elsewhere. If you really want to help, donate or give your time to the specific charities for homelessness.0 -
I think if you're sitting beside a bin all day begging people for money, you must be in a pretty desperate situation. If you can become such a millionaire off it as you suggest Future Guy why don't you give up your job and beg all day? The simple truth is no one sits in the middle of Limerick city to beg for money unless they are desperate and impoverished in some way. These people are not living it large no matter what type of myths people want to peddle.
Did I once say they could become a millionaire Panda? Did I once day they were living it large. Nope, don't think I did.
Most of them definitely aren't desperate as people like you say. Nice clothes, phones, organized shifts, refusing food and asking for money.
The vast majority of them are preying on peoples good nature. As John said, people need to be stop being so gullible and stop giving them money. Then they'll seek help.0 -
I think if you're sitting beside a bin all day begging people for money, you must be in a pretty desperate situation. If you can become such a millionaire off it as you suggest Future Guy why don't you give up your job and beg all day? The simple truth is no one sits in the middle of Limerick city to beg for money unless they are desperate and impoverished in some way. These people are not living it large no matter what type of myths people want to peddle.
I agree , there is one guy who sits beside Penney's with his dog and whilst he can get a bed in one of the homeless hostel by night , he doesn't want to leave his dog ....and how I know this is cos I've stopped to give him some food in the winter and chatted with him .. very sad situation to be in0 -
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I'll tell ye this much, I'm beginning to think I'm a bit of a chump. Work is for absolute idiots.
Last Sunday, there were 11 beggers on the street between Penny's and AIB on O'Connell Street. Eleven.
One of them wearing nice jeans and a pair of Nikes. Another with an iPhone. I took the youngfella to the doctors today and noted a women in nice clothes buying perfume in Superdrug - the same women sitting beside a bin on Sunday.
It's a scam. A sham. They either don't want to be helped or they are making fools of everyone.
I'd wager there are very few beggars who actually truly want to do better for themselves. Call me heartless, but I believe in helping those that WANT help, not these parasites.
So you saw 2 'beggers' out of 11 with nice clothes and runners and a phone and then one random woman in a shop buying perfume and you feel that's enough to castigate the individuals despite not knowing anything about them and furthermore to then make sweeping generalisations about an entire set of people based on three examples.
Tell me is that a general method you use to form opinion?0 -
I think if you're sitting beside a bin all day begging people for money, you must be in a pretty desperate situation. If you can become such a millionaire off it as you suggest Future Guy why don't you give up your job and beg all day? The simple truth is no one sits in the middle of Limerick city to beg for money unless they are desperate and impoverished in some way. These people are not living it large no matter what type of myths people want to peddle.
Do you honestly think that any money you might give to them goes on anything other than supporting organised criminals who put these unfortunate people onto the streets to collect.
Have you tried offering them food or clothes instead of money?
Are you happy to facilitate their purchase of alcohol or drugs if it's addiction that's their problem? If you facilitate their purchase of drugs, you are contributing to organised crime and drug dealers further up the food chain.
You are being very naive if you think you're doing these people any favours by giving them money. There are two long-term beggars living near me. They beg regularly outside the LIDL store and I often see them in Dunnes off-license loading up on alcohol after a day's 'begging'.
Most local people have now seen through them and refuse to pay for their substance abuse. When the majority of people see through this begging charade, most of these people will vanish off the streets.0 -
I was in a bookies one time about 10 years ago, and a girl of about 15 came in. She didn't speak any English (or pretended not to) but handed me a handwritten note with some sad tale of woe. I tried to hand it back but she wouldn't take it.
She even got down on one knee and had has hands clasped together in the typical begging pose, before the shop staff got her to leave.
The next day, I saw her walking down the street with a new printer (still in the box), then loading the printer into, and getting into, a car.
There are definitely people who are in real trouble on the streets, and there are definitely people who are organised begging scammers.0 -
Do you honestly think that any money you might give to them goes on anything other than organised criminals who put these unfortunate people onto the streets to collect.
Have you tried offering them food or clothes instead of money?
Are you happy to facilitate their purchase of alcohol or drugs if it's addiction that's their problem? If you facilitate their purchase of drugs, you are helping organised crime and drug dealers further up the food chain.
You are being very naive if you think you're doing these people any favours by giving them money. There are two long-term beggars living near me. They beg regularly outside the LIDL store and I often see them in Dunnes off-license loading up on alcohol after a day's 'begging'.
Most local people have now seen through them and refuse to pay for their substance abuse. When the majority of people see through this begging charade, most of thee people will vanish off the streets.Do you honestly think that any money you might give to them goes on anything other than organised criminals who put these unfortunate people onto the streets to collect.
Can you point me to your evidence to suggest that these 'unfortunate people' are all stooges of organised criminals? Are you suggesting that every 'beggar' falls into this category?Have you tried offering them food or clothes instead of money?
Many people begging will take food and clothes but I dare say they can get them from shelters/soup kitchens etc and perhaps they want money for other things hence their preference.Are you happy to facilitate their purchase of alcohol or drugs if it's addiction that's their problem?
If one is prepared to give them money then frankly you've no say in what they do with it - if they're addicted to drugs and/or alcohol then they have a problem and they need help with it but denying them the money isn't going to solve it the only thing it does is apparently ease your morally superior and patronising conscience.If you facilitate their purchase of drugs, you are helping organised crime and drug dealers further up the food chain.
May I suggest that the proportion of income going to organised crime from the homeless is very small in proportion to the vast amounts that working people living in apartments and houses provide through their use of various narcotics. I didn't see any morally superior patronising noise emanating from you on that score.You are being very naive if you think you're doing these people any favours by giving them money.
What qualifies you to make that statement - I note you like your generalisations - 'these people'!There are two long-term beggars living near me. They beg regularly outside the LIDL store and I often see them in Dunnes off-license loading up on alcohol after a day's 'begging'.
Perhaps alcohol is the only thing that gets them through every miserable f@cking day, so so what if they drink. Seriously if their alcohol consumption is the dominant thing that occurs to you on seeing those two people then I'd suggest you re orientate your moral compass.When the majority of people see through this begging charade, most of thee people will vanish off the streets
Will they indeed and tell us about your extensive research in to this?0 -
I was in a bookies one time about 10 years ago, and a girl of about 15 came in. She didn't speak any English (or pretended not to) but handed me a handwritten note with some sad tale of woe. I tried to hand it back but she wouldn't take it.
She even got down on one knee and had has hands clasped together in the typical begging pose, before the shop staff got her to leave.
The next day, I saw her walking down the street with a new printer (still in the box), then loading the printer into, and getting into, a car.
There are definitely people who are in real trouble on the streets, and there are definitely people who are organised begging scammers.
Yet they're the ones you choose to highlight!0 -
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Worked with Focus Ireland before and one of their head guys advised me never to give homeless people money. If they are truly homeless, offer them food or a hot drink and they will take it.0
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We live in a welfare state. No citizen needs to beg on the streets in this country. People choose to. Be it for whatever reason.
Do not be so naive thinking you are doing a justice. Giving those parasites money only encourages it. They harrase people, puke pee and everything else on our streets. They are a disgrace. If you promise to not to do drink drugs or fight you can go to a shelter. You can then register this with welfare and get payments. You can use said payments to clean up and look for a job.0 -
We live in a welfare state. No citizen needs to beg on the streets in this country. People choose to. Be it for whatever reason.
Do not be so naive thinking you are doing a justice. Giving those parasites money only encourages it. They harrase people, puke pee and everything else on our streets. They are a disgrace. If you promise to not to do drink drugs or fight you can go to a shelter. You can then register this with welfare and get payments. You can use said payments to clean up and look for a job.
You're a charmer aren't you? A whole lot of 'They' going on in your post! It's all so simple stop the drink, give up the drugs have a shower get a job, life is a walk in the park! Grow up FFS.0 -
We live in a welfare state. No citizen needs to beg on the streets in this country. People choose to. Be it for whatever reason.
Do not be so naive thinking you are doing a justice. Giving those parasites money only encourages it. They harrase people, puke pee and everything else on our streets. They are a disgrace. If you promise to not to do drink drugs or fight you can go to a shelter. You can then register this with welfare and get payments. You can use said payments to clean up and look for a job.
Sounds like too much effort.
There are plenty of naive and gullible people on the streets to allow them all to work on the same street and live their lifestyle. For many of them, it’ll be spent on drink and drugs. So well done to everyone who gives them money, the local drug dealer is being kept in business. The off licenses love it too.0 -
Off licenses are too expensive, i often meet them in Dunnes as soon as they can start selling drink. You spot them straight away as they're only buying one can and stink of drinkSounds like too much effort.
There are plenty of naive and gullible people on the streets to allow them all to work on the same street and live their lifestyle. For many of them, it’ll be spent on drink and drugs. So well done to everyone who gives them money, the local drug dealer is being kept in business. The off licenses love it too.0 -
Did I once say they could become a millionaire Panda? Did I once day they were living it large. Nope, don't think I did.
Most of them definitely aren't desperate as people like you say. Nice clothes, phones, organized shifts, refusing food and asking for money.
The vast majority of them are preying on peoples good nature. As John said, people need to be stop being so gullible and stop giving them money. Then they'll seek help.
I can only speak of my own experience. I know two of the people who beg frequently on O'Connell Street. I worked with them for many years in a support capacity. One is an addict. He begs for money for drugs, this is obvious and he doesn't make much money. It is a desperately sad situation. He did try and get sober but his parents both died, had a series of knockbacks in life. We tried everything we could to support him. If he doesn't make money from begging he will steal money or anything he can get his hands on to feed his habit.
The other person I know had a serious accident and ended up with a psychiatric condition. He was self-employed at the time of his accident and was not entitled to social welfare. He got divorced from his wife,and ended up on the streets and started self-medicating with alcohol. I have no idea wether people give him money or not but it is not a life I would choose in any shape or form.
I know both these men and pass them frequently and have never seen them with luxury items. Tbh if I did see them buying a bottle of perfume from money they earned on the streets I wouldn't begrudge them that. Begging on the streets is an awful life and you only choose it if you're desperate.
I personally don't give money to people on the streets but I can appreciate why people do and I think it's an absolute myth that those that are begging are buying luxury items with all their profits. I don't know what the solution is to begging but going by this thread we certainly need to change our attitude to those living in much more unfortunate circumstances than we would ever wish for anyone.0 -
There will always be beggers so long as there are hapless gullible do-gooders to take advantage of.
There is every support out there for anyone in trouble.0 -
MFPM wrote:You're a charmer aren't you? A whole lot of 'They' going on in your post! It's all so simple stop the drink, give up the drugs have a shower get a job, life is a walk in the park! Grow up FFS.
Point to one part of my post that is incorrect.
You know maturity is being able to realise the issues with society and not just say "life sucks so let it be".
The fact is that there is organised begging on our streets. There are also those who are just looking for cash for drink and drugs. So why should i fund either? Where should i grow up and think differently?
Its funny how the naive ones are usually the ones who rarely ever go to the city center and see these issues in the first place.0 -
My parents live in a certain city center. I mean proper center of everything. Frequently they see these streeties peeing on the front wall or taking a crap in the garden. They once saw two having sex down the side of the house. They regularly find used needles on the front street. There is a primary school just around the corner.
But yea keep feeding this behaviour with excuses for these people.0 -
I remember seeing one of the more common beggars off his head in A+E.
One of these days, he won't even get to the A+E because he will die of an overdose. That will be square on the people who fund his habit. I find it fcuking crazy that people KNOW the money is going on drugs but give money anyway. They KNOW it is funding drugs trade and filling the pockets of drug dealers but give money anyway.
There isn't one person on the street that needs to be there. It's a choice.0 -
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The only issue I would raise FG is that in some cases it isnt a choice, they might have been kicked out of home. They dont want to go to the homeless shelter because of the drug abuse and harrassment in them. Or the homeless shelter is full.0
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Point to one part of my post that is incorrect.
You know maturity is being able to realise the issues with society and not just say "life sucks so let it be".
The fact is that there is organised begging on our streets. There are also those who are just looking for cash for drink and drugs. So why should i fund either? Where should i grow up and think differently?
Its funny how the naive ones are usually the ones who rarely ever go to the city center and see these issues in the first place.Point to one part of my post that is incorrect.
Where did I suggest anything you said was 'incorrect'. I drew attention to the generalised slurs you aimed at homeless people and the overly simplistic assessment of how people can fix their situations.You know maturity is being able to realise the issues with society and not just say "life sucks so let it be".
Maturity is also being able to analyse, discuss and evaluate the complexities of life for many different people without resorting to simplistic and self serving labels such as 'parasites' - in fact it's a decidedly immature method of discussion. Now can you indicate where I suggested or implied that 'life sucks so let it be'?The fact is that there is organised begging on our streets.
Indeed there may be orgainsed begging on the streets but I'd suggest that 1) those involved perhaps are beholden to criminal entities and 2) that 'organised' begging involves a relatively small percentage of the total number of those begging 3) it's a convenient straw-man argument for you to avoid dealing with the people in actual sh!t situations.There are also those who are just looking for cash for drink and drugs.
That may be true but I'd suggest if they need to beg for either then their situation is quite desperate, and utterly dysfunctional but why focus on actual issues when you can engage in bouts of sanctimonious outrage.So why should i fund either?
Remind me who's holding the gun to your head?Its funny how the naive ones are usually the ones who rarely ever go to the city center and see these issues in the first place.
I assume you're referring to me? On what basis do you suggest that I'm 'naive' - the fact I disagree with you? What makes you think you know anything of my presence in the city centre or my experience of it?0 -
My parents live in a certain city center. I mean proper center of everything. Frequently they see these streeties peeing on the front wall or taking a crap in the garden. They once saw two having sex down the side of the house. They regularly find used needles on the front street. There is a primary school just around the corner.
But yea keep feeding this behaviour with excuses for these people.
You persist with the generalities...0 -
I remember seeing one of the more common beggars off his head in A+E.
One of these days, he won't even get to the A+E because he will die of an overdose. That will be square on the people who fund his habit. I find it fcuking crazy that people KNOW the money is going on drugs but give money anyway. They KNOW it is funding drugs trade and filling the pockets of drug dealers but give money anyway.
There isn't one person on the street that needs to be there. It's a choice.I remember seeing one of the more common beggars off his head in A+E.
Take a trip to A+E most Saturday nights look at the people getting their stomachs pumped, or the other various alcohol and drug induced injuries remedied - are they all homeless?One of these days, he won't even get to the A+E because he will die of an overdose. That will be square on the people who fund his habit. I find it fcuking crazy that people KNOW the money is going on drugs but give money anyway.
If a solicitor working for a law firm snorts a few too many lines on pay day, is his boss responsible for giving him his wages?
If a guy drinks too much and crashes his car, is the bar man who served him responsible?
If you don't want to give someone begging money - here's a revolutionary thought..........Don't!There isn't one person on the street that needs to be there. It's a choice.
That's simply absurd. There are perhaps sufficient beds for people to use at night but many have no where to go during the day so they do 'need' to be on the street.
As for a choice, you've no idea of the back story of people, what they've been through or obstacles they've faced, perhaps they've had no real supports, perhaps their family was dysfunctional and social services in Ireland is extremely overburdened. Have you ever listened to some of the stories of how people ended up on the streets. To reduce it to choice is lazy, dishonest and frankly insulting.0 -
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Where did I suggest anything you said was 'incorrect'. I drew attention to the generalised slurs you aimed at homeless people and the overly simplistic assessment of how people can fix their situations.
Well your faux outrage suggests that you seem to disagree with me. If you disagree with me it means something I said is incorrect.
I may seem to have over simplified how people can fix their issues but guess what, it actually is that easy. Some people dont want help and prefer to play the victim.Maturity is also being able to analyse, discuss and evaluate the complexities of life for many different people without resorting to simplistic and self serving labels such as 'parasites' - in fact it's a decidedly immature method of discussion. Now can you indicate where I suggested or implied that 'life sucks so let it be'?
parasite
noun
plural noun: parasites
1.
an organism which lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.
Yea I think the word is apt. Now, do I understand why you think its a bit mean? Yes I do. I will refrain from using it from here on in if that makes you feel a little less agro.Indeed there may be orgainsed begging on the streets but I'd suggest that 1) those involved perhaps are beholden to criminal entities and 2) that 'organised' begging involves a relatively small percentage of the total number of those begging 3) it's a convenient straw-man argument for you to avoid dealing with the people in actual sh!t situations.
So what is your solution? keep giving them money? keep funding organised crime? keep encouraging the forcing of others to beg?
By the way it is nowhere near a small percentage. Look at Waterford and Cork as examples of organised begging being targeted by Gardai.That may be true but I'd suggest if they need to beg for either then their situation is quite desperate, and utterly dysfunctional but why focus on actual issues when you can engage in bouts of sanctimonious outrage.
Again giving them money does not "save them"Remind me who's holding the gun to your head?
When this gets worse it will be a beggarI assume you're referring to me? On what basis do you suggest that I'm 'naive' - the fact I disagree with you? What makes you think you know anything of my presence in the city centre or my experience of it?
Not just you. Thats nuts. Why would I hold you responsible for the vast amount of do gooders who encourage this behaviour? Your part of the issue but not teh issue.
I know of your presence because you seem to have absolutely no idea of how bad the issue is and it seems no idea that EVERYONE is entitled to 196 euro every single week!!!!! Nobody needs to beg and it should be illegal0 -
That's simply absurd. There are perhaps sufficient beds for people to use at night but many have no where to go during the day so they do 'need' to be on the street.
As for a choice, you've no idea of the back story of people, what they've been through or obstacles they've faced, perhaps they've had no real supports, perhaps their family was dysfunctional and social services in Ireland is extremely overburdened. Have you ever listened to some of the stories of how people ended up on the streets. To reduce it to choice is lazy, dishonest and frankly insulting.
Im sorry but you come off like you are very young. I really mean that in as little disrespect as possible. I admire your kindness. I truely do.
JSA and the housing list. Rent allowance. No reason for anyone to spend more than a week tops in a hostel. All you need is an address to sign on. Even a friends address. Anyone. Then you use your 196 euro to pay rent. There is cheap accom around if you look. In fact welfare will source that as well if needed. Then you clean up and get a job. If you need other supports such as Councillors, rehab etc it is all free and available to you.
I have listened to many stories and I am telling you it is all excuse! The absolute truth is many of them cant sign on because they cant stay in a shelter for long enough because they refuse to not drink, do drugs or be aggressive. Instead.0 -
Mr.H wrote:JSA and the housing list. Rent allowance. No reason for anyone to spend more than a week tops in a hostel. All you need is an address to sign on. Even a friends address. Anyone. Then you use your 196 euro to pay rent. There is cheap accom around if you look. In fact welfare will source that as well if needed. Then you clean up and get a job. If you need other supports such as Councillors, rehab etc it is all free and available to you.Mr.H wrote:I have listened to many stories and I am telling you it is all excuse! The absolute truth is many of them cant sign on because they cant stay in a shelter for long enough because they refuse to not drink, do drugs or be aggressive. Instead.
The average waiting period to secure social accomodation (for a single person with no dependants) is nine years. Rent allowance, again for a single person with no dependants, amounts to 375 euro per month. The cheapest private rental accomodation in Limerick costs 600 - 700 euro per month. People in full time jobs are becoming homeless because of a shortage of affordable housing. Those living on the streets who are long time drink or drug addicts also tend to suffer from chronic physical and psychological ailments and, given these circumstances, are unlikely ever to become viable candidates in the job market.0 -
chicorytip wrote: »The average waiting period to secure social accomodation (for a single person with no dependants) is nine years. Rent allowance, again for a single person with no dependants, amounts to 375 euro per month. The cheapest private rental accomodation in Limerick costs 600 - 700 euro per month. People in full time jobs are becoming homeless because of a shortage of affordable housing. Those living on the streets who are long time drink or drug addicts also tend to suffer from chronic physical and psychological ailments and, given these circumstances, are unlikely ever to become viable candidates in the job market.
While it is a lot of work to make them viable, I strongly disagree. I am not saying that someone in that position is ready to be the CEO of a corporation but I dont think its unrealistic to think that it is beyond reason that they could make an honest living.
Also while yes waiting times are long for housing, when it comes to these cases there is a completely separate list available. I am talking council housing obviously where it is at rent of a mere 20 quid a week (for a 2 bed house by the way) type situation. I have first hand knowledge of such a situation. They dont pay only 20 quid a week anymore as they are working full time. So now they pay about 75 a week. No dependants and single male.
I am in no way suggesting people dont need help. I am however saying that the help they need is not by enabling begging. I would love it if our tax money helped them by giving them help. I have no issue with that. Its just the begging is not something that should be tolerated.0 -
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chicorytip wrote: »The cheapest private rental accomodation in Limerick costs 600 - 700 euro per month. People in full time jobs are becoming homeless because of a shortage of affordable housing.
My girlfriends rent is 250 a month. City centre on-suite double room. She works part time
My own is 300 + bills, I work part time.
You are talking through your hole.0
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