French bus driver slaps teenager for disrespect

CountingR

CountingR wrote: »

Hiya think this is a good summary of how people feel.

However - it just doesn’t really make sense to me that people would think that you could solve a lifetime’s worth of bad disciplining by parents, by giving a child a smack across the face. If a child has been brought up with no proper boundaries, and it’s ingrained in them to be disrespectful etc., then unraveling that is going to be a lot more complicated than giving them a smack in the face. More likely they will just react really badly - and you’ll probably just create more violence at some point down the chain.

For example, what if that bus driver hit the 12 year old, and then on instinct the 12 year old and his friends all attacked the bus driver? And that’s a fairly credible scenario - I know a good few bus drivers, and I guarantee that most would not be getting out of their bus to approach a group of 12/13 year olds - because they know what would likely happen if they did. That’s the sad reality.

You can’t solve years of neglect with a slap to the face, no matter how much you feel like doing. You’ll likely just make the problem worse.

That’s not to say that everything you’ve said above isn’t a huge issue.. but we should probably be trying to look at how we improve parenting and discipline, and unravel those patterns of behaviour, rather than applauding when someone snaps, and lashes out in anger.

I just don’t get the cheers of support for the guy who lashes out - yet, it was at the 12 year old kid who is the product of a system, family and society that has created him - and no one seems interested in talking about how you change that system, the family and societal structures to alter this.

In summary - focus your rage on the machine, and those who engineered it, don’t focus your rage on the product that the machine produces!

EDIT: Just to add - empathy I completely get. We all understand that someone can snap and do this. However defence is a different kettle of fish altogether. And going further and suggesting this as a solution to something is just really simplistic - and is a waste of breath if you actually want things to change.

Hitman3000

mattser wrote:

Assualted ??. For someone who presents as an authority on the subject, is it too much to ask that you get your spelling in order ?

Despite everything said on this thread by numerous posters, my spelling is what riles you? You need to get a life buddy.

Graces7

CountingR wrote: »

Actually, it’s grand, I’m getting used to life ‘off the pedestal’ already. People have stopped thinking I’m a statue, which is a good thing (I guess). On the negative, women are giving me a lot less attention - as I’m not up on my pedestal anymore. I’ve kept the pedestal though. It’s under a tarpaulin in the shed. You never know when it might come in handy in the future. Could use it for painting the fence or something.

Anywho... look, what I meant is that the majority of people are arguing that a 12 year old child should have been hit and deserved it, and also some (and not an insignificant number) are calling him a scumbag, scrote, prick, and saying he deserved more. I’m not trying to say everyone said everything, but there’s a concerning number of people who are saying the above!

Anyway I apologise if I wasn’t clear - I’m attempting to feed a baby human most of the time while writing!

can you please turn that round? That is not what most of us are saying. We are at least partly exonerating the driver of the term "violent assault" due to the inappropriate provocation from the real villain of this episode. ie the lad whose life the driver had just saved

Ginger83

MadDog76 wrote: »

The driver has admitted he was wrong.

His employer has condemned his actions and begun disciplinary procedures.

The local Mayor and Frances Minster for Transport have condemned the driver's actions.

The boys Mother has made an official complaint to the Police.

There were dozens of eye witnesses to the incident as well as damning video evidence.

The video has gone viral and made headlines around the world, ie. the world is watching.....

He won't get away as lightly as you think.....

Driver gets a slap on wrists, mammy gets a cheque to keep her sweet and the offended public are satisfied with 'disciplinary procedures'.

Or the driver could have bumped the cheeky little f***er to teach him not to run in front of traffic.

OldMrBrennan83

Only seen this now. Fairly put manners on the little cúnt in a matter of seconds Was like a lamb after.

Not enough kids get a good wallop these days and most of them badly need it.

Ginger83

Patww79 wrote: »

Only seen this now. Fairly put manners on the little cúnt in a matter of seconds Was like a lamb after.

Not enough kids get a good wallop these days and most of them badly need it.

Wasn't the big man in front of his mates with a red face

ThunbergsAreGo

Such an overreaction (on the video)

Wasn't a powerful slap was a cop on one

CountingR

Graces7 wrote: »

can you please turn that round? That is not what most of us are saying. We are at least partly exonerating the driver of the term "violent assault" due to the inappropriate provocation from the real villain of this episode. ie the lad whose life the driver had just saved

Yep appreciate that, and not trying to tar everyone with same brush! Definitely lots of shades of grey on it, so totally accept that view. However, I think it’s fair to say that there is a majority of people who are defending the driver (to differing degrees), and are assigning responsibility (or differing portions of it) to the boy.

Now - here’s my problem. I empathize with the driver. I know the kind of kids we’re talking about, and what they’re like. They have no respect, they’re threatening etc. etc. So I understand that someone can snap - likely a chain of things that lead the driver to lash out in a way that he wouldn’t normally (and hasn’t before). So i understand that - it’s the explanation. We all get that.

However, while I can understand the cause, I still can’t defend him. I can’t defend him because I believe what he did was wrong - provocation or not. Now we can debate the morality of it - and agakn there will be lots of shades of grey on that - but certainly legally, and therefore societally, the driver was wrong. He made a decision to not just walk away, but to escalate the situation and slap the kid. That was his choice, aggravated or not. He did it out of anger, frustration, and really just heaped a whole lot more fuel on the fire.

As above, you’re not going to get a kid who (allegedly) has such little respect and care, to straighten up and fly right with a slap, so what’s the point? You’re just adding to the crap in the world.

Now the kids defence here would be that he’s just a kid - he’s immature, could be a product of a bad family, maybe came from an abusive home, maybe he’s in care and so on. Doesn’t excuse the kids actions, but describing a 12 year old as a ‘villain’ for stepping out in front of a bus and then giving the driver lip doesn’t make sense. Leave aside that you have no idea what happened - the driver could have broken a light for all we know! Point is that’s what a lot of teenagers do unfortunately.

However, the bus driver is a mature adult. He can’t rely on immaturity as a defence. Only anger and rage. And - let’s be fair - we’re all going to face these sorts of kids in our lives. Is the solution to the problem for us to act on impulse and hit them? If yes, then society descends into chaos. If no, then we have to accept that while the driver may have been provoked, he let himself down and made the wrong choice. He should receive the appropriate reprimand. He broke the law by choice, so unfortunately he’ll have to answer to that.

TheQuietFella

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teenage-boy-attacked-dublin-bus-driver-in-row-over-fare-and-then-passed-out-in-rage-blackout-37343152.html

And then you have this!

JupiterKid

iamwhoiam wrote: »

My thoughts on this and on your points is that I suspect many are simply sick to death of young people acting like this lad and no consequences at all being handed out . Personally speaking I do not agree with the drivers action but can understand provocation and frustration . Daily we hear about young lads( and girls too) running wild, causing damage , intimidating , taunting and nothing being done because they are " too young "

Only very recently I witnessed a group of boys aged about 12 or 13 standing behind a low wall along a road . I was in a traffic line and watched them .As a young woman or girl passed ( never a man or boy ) they would suddenly jump up with sticks and hit the girls while passing . My point is that even if I callled the Guards and they witnessed it nothing would actually happen to punish these lads . At one stage a middle aged man approached them and they laughed in his face and carried on .
That is only one episode of many such incidents seen and witnessed by people in this country and much much worse too . People in some parts of this country are being hounded out of houses by gangs of kids .

Daily I see small kids in a playground hitting others , pushing others and screaming like banshees if anyone dares ask them to be nice and kind . The parents stand by often and watch this enfold and see no reason to remove the offender from causing harm . And this continues into their youth

So it is understandable that frustrated people who see this in increasing incidences are really not going to get outraged at a man who in frustration lashed out .

You must agree that if we dont use the fist or slap as punishment then it must be replaced with an effective alternative ? Unfortunately for many young lads nothing replaced this and they carry on being disruptive and intimidating with no consequences or punishment . So now people are getting fed up of this behaviour and see a slap as a quick and maybe effective one to teach this kid to be less disrespectful and that he doesnt rule the world

Agree with this post 100%. I think many Western societies have gone too far the other way in recent years in terms of disciplining children. I don’t advocate hitting children, but the occasional slap or clip round the ear for bad behavior did no child any harm. There is a world of difference between a slap and a thump or using a belt or an object to hit a child which IMO is assault and is wrong. Many parents do not discipline their children at all and the results are there for all to see. They run riot and create havoc and know that because there are no consequences, they can get away with it.

I can completely understand why the bus driver slapped that boy. He deserved it. And I think the upshot of the fallout from this video will be an increase in support for the driver of the bus and a debate on the lack of parental discipline of children which sadly is so widespread.

NasserShammaz

TheQuietFella wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teenage-boy-attacked-dublin-bus-driver-in-row-over-fare-and-then-passed-out-in-rage-blackout-37343152.html

And then you have this!

FFS Pure scum. travelling with his mother no less . IBet not only the resources of the court have been wasted but ambulance service/social services etc...

He must be a dream to teach aswell in school but wait he has ADHD nothing to do with the complete lack of parenting. Scum Scum Scum

mattser

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Despite everything said on this thread by numerous posters, my spelling is what riles you? You need to get a life buddy.

Riled ? Amused would be much more accurate. As for getting a life, I would be concerned if I was spending too much time on the internet giving an opinion on everything.
Go take a long brisk walk in the fresh air, and you'll be grand.

BBFAN

What would posters have to say if this teenager was a girl?

OldMrBrennan83

BBFAN wrote: »

What would posters have to say if this teenager was a girl?

Not enough female kids get a clatter these days either, they're just as full of badness as male ones.

Also, #equality.

Graces7

CountingR wrote: »

Yep appreciate that, and not trying to tar everyone with same brush! Definitely lots of shades of grey on it, so totally accept that view. However, I think it’s fair to say that there is a majority of people who are defending the driver (to differing degrees), and are assigning responsibility (or differing portions of it) to the boy.

Now - here’s my problem. I empathize with the driver. I know the kind of kids we’re talking about, and what they’re like. They have no respect, they’re threatening etc. etc. So I understand that someone can snap - likely a chain of things that lead the driver to lash out in a way that he wouldn’t normally (and hasn’t before). So i understand that - it’s the explanation. We all get that.

However, while I can understand the cause, I still can’t defend him. I can’t defend him because I believe what he did was wrong - provocation or not. Now we can debate the morality of it - and agakn there will be lots of shades of grey on that - but certainly legally, and therefore societally, the driver was wrong. He made a decision to not just walk away, but to escalate the situation and slap the kid. That was his choice, aggravated or not. He did it out of anger, frustration, and really just heaped a whole lot more fuel on the fire.

As above, you’re not going to get a kid who (allegedly) has such little respect and care, to straighten up and fly right with a slap, so what’s the point? You’re just adding to the crap in the world.

Now the kids defence here would be that he’s just a kid - he’s immature, could be a product of a bad family, maybe came from an abusive home, maybe he’s in care and so on. Doesn’t excuse the kids actions, but describing a 12 year old as a ‘villain’ for stepping out in front of a bus and then giving the driver lip doesn’t make sense. Leave aside that you have no idea what happened - the driver could have broken a light for all we know! Point is that’s what a lot of teenagers do unfortunately.

However, the bus driver is a mature adult. He can’t rely on immaturity as a defence. Only anger and rage. And - let’s be fair - we’re all going to face these sorts of kids in our lives. Is the solution to the problem for us to act on impulse and hit them? If yes, then society descends into chaos. If no, then we have to accept that while the driver may have been provoked, he let himself down and made the wrong choice. He should receive the appropriate reprimand. He broke the law by choice, so unfortunately he’ll have to answer to that.

By choice in a situation like that? The man would have been traumatised. Almost killed someone....

Are YOU always calm and so selfcontrolled in an emergency?

He is a bus driver not a teacher or social worker.

Dakota Dan

naughtb4 wrote: »

Such an overreaction (on the video)

Wasn't a powerful slap was a cop on one

Except for a few posters on her who have upgraded it to violent assault to make it more dramatic.

Hitman3000

mattser wrote:

Riled ? Amused would be much more accurate. As for getting a life, I would be concerned if I was spending too much time on the internet giving an opinion on everything. Go take a long brisk walk in the fresh air, and you'll be grand.

Yet your only comment is to question my spelling ability. As for how long I spend on this forum you might like to explain how is it any of your concern or business for that matter. If my opinion or comments are a source of annoyance for you be mature and just put me on ignore you'll be happier and I don't have to respond to for want of a better word a 'busybody'.

Dakota Dan

TheQuietFella wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teenage-boy-attacked-dublin-bus-driver-in-row-over-fare-and-then-passed-out-in-rage-blackout-37343152.html

And then you have this!

I wonder what the do gooders on here would have to say about that?

CountingR

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]


By choice in a situation like that? The man would have been traumatised. Almost killed someone....

Are YOU always calm and so selfcontrolled in an emergency?

He is a bus driver not a teacher or social worker.

Yep, that’s a defence alright, but not a very credible one. I wouldn’t fancy my chances if I was bringing that to a judge - “Your honour I was so traumatized that I had absolutely no choice. I had no choice but to get out of the bus, follow him, and hit him.”

Of course a court is going to take into account the mitigating circumstances, and it should, and his penalty should be less than an unprovoked assault, but suggesting that he should be absolved of all responsibility makes no sense.

Yes he’s a bus driver but he’s also a grown man. He made a mistake. He did the wrong thing. There was a context to that, that needs to be considered. Unfortunately, though, he has to accept the appropriate reprimand. That’s just the way it is - and it’s a good thing, it keeps society functioning.

And just consider - 12 year olds like this will not get an easy run at life. If they’re walking out in front of buses they’ll probably get knocked down. If they act like they do, they’ll never get a decent job. They’ll live a half life because they’ve produced that way. So they’re probably f**ked really anyway - they won’t get away scot free... the slap doesn’t make a difference, the world will punish them for who they are in time regardless

Grayson

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]


By choice in a situation like that? The man would have been traumatised. Almost killed someone....

Are YOU always calm and so selfcontrolled in an emergency?

He is a bus driver not a teacher or social worker.

Laws are there for a reason. Your emotional state doesn't dictate whether you get off something. I'm sure there are plenty of men who beat their wives who felt angry at the time. We hold everyone to the same standards.
Yes, we can take it into consideration when it comes to sentencing. That is fair. We can look at the character of the accused, or at sentancing I guess you could say the guilty party, but that doesn't mean that the person shouldn't be charged and found guilty.

NasserShammaz

Dakota Dan wrote: »

I wonder what the do gooders on here would have to say about that?

Shush 1 Little house on the prairie is on

pickarooney

FingerDeKat wrote: »

even with paragraphs I'm not gonna rear that

What the **** did you quote it for?

per aspera ad astra

Look, I think we can all agree – each and every one of us, regardless of our opinions on the matter – that food... ...is great?

C'mon. Let's put this all behind us.

Food... ...is great. Hah?

Hmm?

TheBoyConor

wakka12 wrote:

Assaulting a child isn't okay, especially because he only slapped him because he's a child and knows he won't be able to fight back

I'd disagree with the unable to fight back part. There are plenty 12 year olds around Dublin and other cities who would stick a knife or screwdriver into you if you dared to challenge them on their behaviour.

And this big gang of feral teenagers in the video looked like the prime sort of gathering for such an act. Driver was very foolish to go in and challenge a group like that, for his own safety.
I would certainly never challenge group of teenagers in Dublin because you'd be asking to get stabbed or badly beaten.

A colleague of my ex's who is a primary teacher suffered a miscarriage after being kicked in the abdomen by a little prick of a child of about 10 years old.

BBFAN

Patww79 wrote: »

Not enough female kids get a clatter these days either, they're just as full of badness as male ones.

Also, #equality.

WOW is all I can say, that sends shivers down my spine.

Ginger83

BBFAN wrote: »

WOW is all I can say, that sends shivers down my spine.

What did, the accuracy?

Graces7

Grayson wrote: »

Laws are there for a reason. Your emotional state doesn't dictate whether you get off something. I'm sure there are plenty of men who beat their wives who felt angry at the time. We hold everyone to the same standards.
Yes, we can take it into consideration when it comes to sentencing. That is fair. We can look at the character of the accused, or at sentancing I guess you could say the guilty party, but that doesn't mean that the person shouldn't be charged and found guilty.

well as long as you charge the young person with endangering life, verbal abuse, threatening behaviour?

The kid got off lightly.

CountingR

Graces7 wrote: »

well as long as you charge the young person with endangering life, verbal abuse, threatening behaviour?

The kid got off lightly.

Hmmm.

Yes actually, when I was on the way to work the other day, I was coming out of the estate, and this kid stepped straight out in front of me without even looking. I called the guards straight away of course - and I suggested they come down and arrest the child straight away. “Charge him with endangering life”, I said. Of course the guards were there, sirens wailing, in less than 5 minutes. They had the kid straight in the car, and thanked me profusely for helping to take this menace off the streets.

There’s even talk of me getting a medal.

Okay, so this debate is officially dead if we’re meant to debate points like this. I’m out.

Hitman3000

Graces7 wrote:

well as long as you charge the young person with endangering life, verbal abuse, threatening behaviour?

Do you even read what you type before you post?

BBFAN

Ginger83 wrote: »

What did, the accuracy?

No the facts that scum thinks it's okay to slap a child in the face, male of people.

It's also important to note that, because an actual slap is so rare these days (and overly-punished), you can even see, as the bus driver approaches the large group of youths, the chap that did it, actually starts to confront the bus driver (until he is put in his place, of course).

I really can't see how this is a 23 page discussion. Bus driver was dead right and hopefully scummer learned a lesson.

Hitman3000

Deleted User wrote:

I really can't see how this is a 23 page discussion. Bus driver was dead right and hopefully scummer learned a lesson.

In fairness it's the driver who is going to learn a lesson. You can't assualt a child and think it has no consequences.

letsseehere14

I was driving out of Limerick city yesterday, just coming on to the Parkway roundabout. Probably the busiest roundabout in the city.
3 scuts on bikes ahead of the few cars in front of me enter the roundabout in the left lane. 1 of them cycling in a wheeley.
They don't yield, don't slow, but continue to cycle past the first exit still hugging the outside lane. Then proceed to cut across the second exit, a 2 lane dual carriageway down towards ul, around to the 3rd exit and off on the Childers road. All while 1 of them is pulling a wheeley!!! 2 cars had to slam on their brakes to avoid crushing them as they cut across the lanes. This was yesterday.
What these kind of kids need is disipline there and then and I guarantee if me of anyone else on that roundabout yesterday got the chance they'd have gotten a kick so hard from behind they'd be half way home before they landed. It would be disipline and it would have been deserved.
You can be sure those kids and the kids in the video don't get it at home. Because their parents probably don't care. You can be sure that a 'talking to' won't have any effect on them.
The bus driver did the right thing. Children of 12 are old enough to know right from wrong. They know what they're doing. They have this sense of entitlement and no consequence living that needs to be removed. Actions have consequences. That boy in the video needs to learn that. If the driver is fired that boy and gis friends will only be empowered and get worse.

Sunny Disposition

Driver goes a bit far, but only a bit, the kid should have consequences, it’s for his good too.
Driver needs to be brought in and spoken to, but definitely shouldn’t be fired.

Hitman3000

Sunny Disposition wrote:

Driver goes a bit far, but only a bit, the kid should have consequences, it’s for his good too. Driver needs to be brought in and spoken to, but definitely shouldn’t be fired.

The child got assualted for his actions, what more should happen to him.
The driver is only starting to be dealt with for his actions. Possible loss of job and the police knocking on his door. Do you think the assualt was worth all the trouble he has brought on himself ?

PistolsAtDawn

chuck eastwood wrote: »

No brainer really. You can't slap a child even if he is a little twat. A driver or anyone working with the public knows the professional and personal consequences for such actions. Sack and prosecute him. Social media and petitions have no place deciding if we should follow the basic rule of law

I got many a slap growing up in the 90s, never did me a bit of harm, thought me some manners and I deserved every last one I got

Sunny Disposition

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The child got assualted for his actions, what more should happen to him.
The driver is only starting to be dealt with for his actions. Possible loss of job and the police knocking on his door. Do you think the assualt was worth all the trouble he has brought on himself ?

No, like I said, he goes a bit too far.

Sunny Disposition

https://youtu.be/rwLXaS3rHAo
Here’s another clip of a young lad facing consequences he didn’t see coming. In this case I think the adult is fully in the right.

Sofiztikated

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

I got many a slap growing up in the 90s, never did me a bit of harm, thought me some manners and I deserved every last one I got

Funny, I didn't, but yet, I have manners, know right from wrong, and to be fair, I did some **** that tested my mother's and father's patience.

I know other lads that got wholloped when they did stupid ****. Funny enough, it was a regular enough thing, because they constantly did stupid ****.

It's almost as though young people, in the presence of other young people, do **** that is reckless and pushes boundaries, that you, as an adult already know is stupid. Almost as though they're learning?

Hitman3000

PistolsAtDawn wrote:

I got many a slap growing up in the 90s, never did me a bit of harm, thought me some manners and I deserved every last one I got

I got many a slap as a very young child in school for using my left hand to write with. Taught me nothing other than some adults are sadistic b*stards that like to hit kids. I still write with my left hand.

decky1

my only problem with this--- he should have closed his fist and followed with another. give this man a pay rise. great it's om video lets everyone see what their like, they come to our town every sunner and try to take over, walking out in front of cars no respect for people on footpaths etc. Nice one Mr Driver.

blade1

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Do you think the assualt was worth all the trouble he has brought on himself ?

No it wasn't.
Maybe if he knocked him down he'd have less trouble to deal with.

MadDog76

decky1 wrote: »

my only problem with this--- he should have closed his fist and followed with another. give this man a pay rise. great it's om video lets everyone see what their like, they come to our town every sunner and try to take over, walking out in front of cars no respect for people on footpaths etc. Nice one Mr Driver.

Ironically, the fact that it's on video means Mr Driver is well and truly f#cked...... and the next driver will think twice before getting out of his bus.

Lessons have been learned by this incident.....

OldMrBrennan83

BBFAN wrote: »

No the facts that scum thinks it's okay to slap a child in the face, male of people.

What does male of people mean?

PlaneSpeeking

Patww79 wrote: »

What does male of people mean?

About as much sense as the rest of their posts tbh.

judestynes

Hitman3000 wrote: »

In fairness it's the driver who is going to learn a lesson. You can't assualt a child and think it has no consequences.

in fairness the kid needs to learn a lesson too. you can't endanger passengers and other pedastrians and think it has no consequences.

marcbrophy

I think the most important question here is:

Since when is 12 years old, a teenager?

Mutant z

The boy put himself and others at risk by his own stupidity who would blame the driver for reacting the way he did. If the bus driver swerved to avoid him and went into into a pile of traffic imagine all the fatalities it could well have caused so a little clip around the ear is harmless by comparison.

Renegade Mechanic

marcbrophy wrote: »

I think the most important question here is:

Since when is 12 years old, a teenager?

Since a bitch-slap became "violent assault" :rolleyes:

Ginger83

MadDog76 wrote: »

Ironically, the fact that it's on video means Mr Driver is well and truly f#cked...... and the next driver will think twice before getting out of his bus.

Lessons have been learned by this incident.....

Like i sad earlier lets hope the next driver uses his bus instead of his hand....kid will learn a harsher lesson.