Sherlock - A game of Werewolf! FEEDBACK THREAD

Necro

Guffy wrote: »

Honestly did not think the Winnie play would work. Fair play neccro for pulling it off.

I thought of Andy whilst I was posting the reveal. Claiming a type of seer in an Andy game - couldn't get much better :pac::pac:

Bounty Hunter

My team mates played a stellar game while I was off in the wilderness and that aligned with the fact that on some level the Wolves were very lucky may have made it seem luck a tough game for the Village.

In an alternative universe game for example:

Mycroft could have derailed the munch on Sherlock or someone similar
Mrs Hudson could have overuled one of the lynches saved a villager and taken out a wolf
I (Abi/Irene) could have won the game with the village if they had caught the other wolves before I returned to our Den (took me 24hrs)
Similarily Wini counted as team Village with regards parity and if they had killed Orla would have died instantly
If Sherlock peeked Moriarty or Necro he would have learned the truth about their roles.
If the BG succesfully protected someone they could have gotten an extra bullet for her shared room husband.
The SK could have taken out a wolf instead of a villager
Shelock could have used his forseight and found out he was being targeted and revealed his role to the village and maybe gotten protected.
The person targeted for blackmailing could have ignored the blackmailing and shot anyone they wanted
Someone other than Necro could have gotten the dummy account and struggled to post high numbers in both accounts.

So many other variations could have occured, those ones are just some off the top of my head.

fixXxer

Can ye explain why Eurus showed up as an NRV?

Necro

fixxxer wrote: »

Can ye explain why Eurus showed up as an NRV?

Eurus was Orla.

Winifred was just a villager under her control.

fixXxer

Ah I getcha, so that's what Her speciality is reprogramming the human brain... meant.

So Eurus acts as a double parity count for the villains. meant that she would still peek as a wolf, but when the numbers came down to it, she's count as two wolves?

sKeith

Drumpot wrote: »

Was thinking about what BJ was saying about the sk. It is probbthe hardest role to play in many regards.

What if something like on day before the munch the Sk has to choose whether he wants to enact a power that makes him invisible for the day? He gets no kill on day 2 so everyday thinks he’s dead. He peaks good that day. Maybe he can even also send a note to somebody like moriarty.

Of course the note thing might not be the best bonus power cause he could send it to a wolf. Unless he gets to send a message to a random nrv. He writes the message and the mods choose a random nrv.

Then he’s back with a vengeance day 3 and everybody’s “wtf”!

Also is there any reason why it can’t be announced that there has been a sub? I thought clearing up Eva’s lynch error helped keep the game on point. Then we had all the wasted discussions on Eva. This element is just as much not s game mechanic (sub) as an error on the votes so I would of thought a simple note saying Eva has been subbed or something would allow people to continue on in game mode.

Another thing with subs which may not be a good idea but is there any benefit to the sub having a non used anon account? A subs posting style will change and when looking back on their posts it’s not easy to see the different players. If Eva and say Phil were the same character but different people at least we could address the Phil character who wouldn’t have to keep saying “that wasn’t me” and if we wanted more context to see if a relationship existed we could search “Eva” to see if she interacted a certain way with people.

Another thing is more a way of evening things out but I presume you do this on some level. It’s unfair on a team acing it but it’s if you want to be able to level things out a bit. If on day x a certain amount of goodies or baddies are dead you give bullets or bonus powers (like the bullet transfer from Watson).

I loved the puzzles. Anything that makes day 0 worthwhile is great. Is there anyway these could be incorporated into the OP, particulars for complicated roles? So each day villagers can try to figure out more specific dynamics of a persons power. If on day 4 or 5 you are finding out moriarty can send notes or somebody has two lives the village still has to work backwards to see how it fits in with whatever story they see...

On Subs.


Kylie WW is a wolf.


Fred has got a pm that he is kylie WW.
He hops in and is having fun, but he slips up and says something he shouldn't know. He has 'slipped'. Then he eats a bad fish and falls ill. He lets the mods know and the sub him out. They offer the position to wilma, who says, sure, i'd love to be a wolf. So wilma hops in and says, yo, i'm a sub, don't judge me on whatever was said before i joined. obviously, every player in the game don't car if they subbed or not, cause the role has not changed, if fred slipped, that means the role wilma stepped into is a bug dirty wolf, even if wilma is the sweetest talking person in the world, she can't reverse the slip, and rightly, she gets lynched as a big dirty wolf.




Don't judge the player behind the role (fred / wilma), judge the role (kylie WW) for everything it has said from the very beginning, even if subbed or not.

Necro

fixxxer wrote: »

Ah I getcha, so that's what Her speciality is reprogramming the human brain... meant.

So Eurus acts as a double parity count for the villains. meant that she would still peek as a wolf, but when the numbers came down to it, she's count as two wolves?

Yep, exactly. You'll see in the backroom my brainfart where I forgot to count properly and thought the game was won when Winnie was shot :o

I don't do math well, me

Drumpot

sKeith wrote: »

On Subs.


Kylie WW is a wolf.


Fred has got a pm that he is kylie WW.
He hops in and is having fun, but he slips up and says something he shouldn't know. He has 'slipped'. Then he eats a bad fish and falls ill. He lets the mods know and the sub him out. They offer the position to wilma, who says, sure, i'd love to be a wolf. So wilma hops in and says, yo, i'm a sub, don't judge me on whatever was said before i joined. obviously, every player in the game don't car if they subbed or not, cause the role has not changed, if fred slipped, that means the role wilma stepped into is a bug dirty wolf, even if wilma is the sweetest talking person in the world, she can't reverse the slip, and rightly, she gets lynched as a big dirty wolf.


Don't judge the player behind the role (fred / wilma), judge the role (kylie WW) for everything it has said from the very beginning, even if subbed or not.

Is there any downside then to Mods confirming the Sub so we don't waste time trying to work out if its BS (I am a sub, don't kill me!)?

Technically its not an intended game mechanic so while it can work for/against the sub, is there any downside to keeping this part a bit more simple ? "Kylie WW was subbed. This is not flavor".

Discussion then turns not to "do we believe sub", but focusing on all their behaviour as you said . .

duffman13

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Similarily Wini counted as team Village with regards parity and if they had killed Orla would have died instantly.

I agree with everything you said, game was fine in terms of balance, if Sherlock lives and Moriarty dies early it's a completely different game. With the above though, Wini is no danger to wolves, so if she dies at a certain point that is to their advantage.

Winny dying actually helped the wolves for parity purposes

Orla dying would have been a neutral result (1 wolf, 1 village dead for parity reasons)

It's pointless as we never got one wolf never mind the 5 required

Necro

Drumpot wrote: »

Is there any downside then to Mods confirming the Sub so we don't waste time trying to work out if its BS (I am a sub, don't kill me!)?

Technically its not an intended game mechanic so while it can work for/against the sub, is there any downside to keeping this part a bit more simple ? "Kylie WW was subbed. This is not flavor".

Discussion then turns not to "do we believe sub", but focusing on all their behaviour as you said . .

Personal preference is no, immediately the paranoia in the room turns on the sub in most cases, maybe prematurely ending the game for the sub.

'He was subbed, has to be a role or a wolf.'
'You're a low posting wolf.'
Etc, etc...

Personally I'd never admit to being a sub on thread, I'd deal with whatever hand that my predecessor in the account had left me. If I died as a result, it would be no bearing on how I played at all.

But that's only my opinion.

Bounty Hunter

Drumpot wrote: »

Is there any downside then to Mods confirming the Sub so we don't waste time trying to work out if its BS (I am a sub, don't kill me!)?

Technically its not an intended game mechanic so while it can work for/against the sub, is there any downside to keeping this part a bit more simple ? "Kylie WW was subbed. This is not flavor".

Discussion then turns not to "do we believe sub", but focusing on all their behaviour as you said . .

I'd be more inclined as a player to think (right or wrong) that a sub could be roled. i.e losing this player would affect the game too much so a sub is needed instead of a mod kill due to inactivity for example. So I could see why announcing a sub might not be beneficial to the person who agreed to step in.

Imagine if Sherlock or Moriarty were unable to post from day 1 onwards and informed the mods for example.

Necro

duffman13 wrote: »

I agree with everything you said, game was fine in terms of balance, if Sherlock lives and Moriarty dies early it's a completely different game. With the above though, Wini is no danger to wolves, so if she dies at a certain point that is to their advantage.

Winny dying actually helped the wolves for parity purposes

Orla dying would have been a neutral result (1 wolf, 1 village dead for parity reasons)

It's pointless as we never got one wolf never mind the 5 required

Technically if I had been killed you'd have killed two wolves. Parity would immediately drop from 6 to 4.

Baggly

Necrominus wrote:

Technically if I had been killed you'd have killed two wolves. Parity would immediately drop from 6 to 4.

The odds of that happening though are much lower because of the nature of the wini account. Showed as nrv, was expendable, wasn't in op, immune to seer and priest, its perfect cover....

mitsuko045

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Guys I don't mean to be super negative about the game. It was REALLY enjoyable and I loved loved loved the riddles on day 0. It completely changed the dynamics of the game start and gave the group something meaty to get stuck into rather than posting gifs for the first day.

Hear, hear to the riddles. Really great way to get everyone posting and interacting. Was loads of fun and gave day 0 a purpose without adding too much pressure.

Mollyb60 wrote: »

But. I HATE hidden roles in a game.

I'm of the opposite opinion. I think the hidden roles were great, especially for a game where there were no tasks. It was a great way to bring that element of surprise and "having a trick up your sleeve" that tasks would usually bring.

Drumpot wrote: »

Also is there any reason why it can’t be announced that there has been a sub?

Yeah, it would have been helpful if it was announced. I can't see how it would hurt the gameplay by confirming a sub. I feel like it was something the village got stuck on and the fact that it wasn't clarified by a mod made people more convinced that it was a wolfy ploy.


Also re: Mycroft being able to divert the wolves kill. I think it's a pretty cool ability that can really disrupt the wolves however, I'm not a fan of it with a bg in the game. Especially one who can earn stuff with successful saves. Now it didn't happen in this game (so my point is kinda moot) but consider this:

Scenario 1:

Bodyguard decides to protect someone who they think is a roled villager.

The wolves decide to munch the same villager.

Villager is saved by bodyguard

Wolves don't get a kill

Village gets an extra bullet for the save

Scenario 2

Bodyguard decides to protect someone who they think is a roled villager.

The wolves decide to munch the same villager

Mycroft also suspecting that villager to be roled diverts the kill.

A different villager dies

Wolves still get a kill

The village gets no bullet

I just think it would be incredibly frustrating to have the village lose out just because two roled villagers made a good judgment call.

Having said that, I had a butt tonne of fun. Fairplay to the wolves for playing an absolute blinder (special mention to Necro for essentially double jobbing and doing it so convincingly) and hats off to the mods for creating a really entertaining and surprising game. You had a huge task keeping track of so many moving parts and ye did a spectacular job.

sKeith

Drumpot wrote: »

Is there any downside then to Mods confirming the Sub so we don't waste time trying to work out if its BS (I am a sub, don't kill me!)?

Technically its not an intended game mechanic so while it can work for/against the sub, is there any downside to keeping this part a bit more simple ? "Kylie WW was subbed. This is not flavor".

Discussion then turns not to "do we believe sub", but focusing on all their behaviour as you said . .

Just completely ignore all sub talk. It should make no difference in how you evaluate a WW. So what if somebody else has subbed into the account, it doesn't change anything.

duffman13

Necrominus wrote: »

Technically if I had been killed you'd have killed two wolves. Parity would immediately drop from 6 to 4.

5 to 4 no? Wini was considered village for parity purposes or am I wring on that. Even then if its tight you lose a "villager" in Wini. Hard to deal with that in the hypothetical world I've created were the village didn't get annihilated

Necro

duffman13 wrote: »

5 to 4 no? Wini was considered village for parity purposes or am I wring on that. Even then if its tight you lose a "villager" in Wini. Hard to deal with that in the hypothetical world I've created were the village didn't get annihilated

Nah, Eurus was a double parity wolf so number of wolves left +1 - so 6 if all wolves still alive.

Orla gets killed, 4 wolves left and double parity gone, so from 6 down to 4.

Trust me, it confused the hell out of me for trying to do up numbers remaining as well :pac::pac:

Edit: But yes, if Orla died Winnie died, so a net gain of 1 for the village essentially.

Drumpot

sKeith wrote: »

Just completely ignore all sub talk. It should make no difference in how you evaluate a WW. So what if somebody else has subbed into the account, it doesn't change anything.

I am going to have to be more ruthless.

Its happened a few times where I felt a bit bad for the sub or the player having a meltdown like Necro . . I forget a lot of manipulation is fair game in this . . Game . .

Digital Solitude

sKeith wrote: »

Just completely ignore all sub talk. It should make no difference in how you evaluate a WW. So what if somebody else has subbed into the account, it doesn't change anything.

Agreed, subs shoukdnt announce themselves as subs either imo, just drop in and play.

Cant remember which game, might have been Marvel-DC but TB subbed in for someone on D2, and I ended up subbing in for TB on D4. I got lynched immediately for wolfish chat, nothing to do with the OG, TB and myself having different styles, and by God we did. I remember reading 'my' posts from the day before and it was pretty much all Chris Hemsworth, cut to me being my serious self the following day :pac:

andy125

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Agreed, subs shoukdnt announce themselves as subs either imo, just drop in and play.

Cant remember which game, might have been Marvel-DC but TB subbed in for someone on D2, and I ended up subbing in for TB on D4. I got lynched immediately for wolfish chat, nothing to do with the OG, TB and myself having different styles, and by God we did. I remember reading 'my' posts from the day before and it was pretty much all Chris Hemsworth, cut to me being my serious self the following day :pac:

Mystique wasn't it?

quickbeam

Put it like this maybe:

If Eurus is killed wolves are down 2 (as she counts for 2)
And Village is down 1 (because Winifred also dies)
Net result, wolves are down 1


Yeah, if subs are announced there is an automatic assumption that the role is important. I certainly thought Eva had a role, and Oisin didn't in this game. I was wrong, but more often than not in such a scenario I'd be right.

andy125

quickbeam wrote: »

Put it like this maybe:

If Eurus is killed wolves are down 2 (as she counts for 2)
And Village is down 1 (because Winifred also dies)
Net result, wolves are down 1


Yeah, if subs are announced there is an automatic assumption that the role is important. I certainly thought Eva had a role, and Oisin didn't in this game. I was wrong, but more often than not in such a scenario I'd be right.

Difference was eva pmed and saying they couldn't play where as oisin was killed for no posting and there was no subs left, as players don't know the reasons behind the subs they should not presume anything which i know is hard to do, so it most likely better to say nothing

Digital Solitude

I think in the case of players playing two accounts, both need to be on the same team.

In the last game it made perfect sense for Tigs to run both SK accounts and made for a head exploding moment when I found out.

Here though, there were essentially 6 wolves with Wini, and there is a very (abstract? Cant think of the word) line between Orla and Wini, despite one being a powered wolf and one a supposed NRV. She was a wolf who would only peek and priest check as good, and we didn't know she existed. If Orla had died D1, would Necro have gotten to play on as Wini the NRVWolf, who was essentially Orla out of the backroom with no reentry.

I just think both accounts were essentially the same role, and so both were power roles.

If it was the point of the role that Wini could carry on as out of room Orla, thats a good idea but the role should have been joint imo, if Orla dies Wini plays as NRV Irene, if Wini dies then Orla plays as NRV Irene.

Theres also the fact that if we killed Orla and all NRVs but Wini, she would be 100% cleared with absolutely no recourse and no reason to doubt her. All the benefits of great wolf play to get yourself cleared with none of the work.

Im not complaining, and I know it wouldn't have changed a thing this game but in a tighter game people might have felt hard done by.

*edit* Got Irene and Eurus mixed up , most of the above is irrelevant I think

The riddles were fantastic, did ye do them yourselves lads? Really think they should stick around, or give us something to fight over D1.

The combined seer was interesting, the option of 1 role or 3 being teamed gives the seer a lot more leeway and freedom in their suspicions and tactics, and is something I'd love to see the return of.

Despite the above I thought Irenes role was great too, a bit like an SK/Wolf in my mind, solo ops agent working for the bad guys. If Irene was the last wolf left could she have left the backroom and played as NRV Irene? Would this have effected kill orders or anything?

On thinking, I dont know how big a fan I am of drunk roles, be it a wolf/villager that doesnt peek or priest right or a seer or priest that doesnt get perfect info, I think I'D change it so they get the right info down the line.

Ive given myself an idea for a game, Drumpot I like your post above, you in?

Digital Solitude

andy125 wrote: »

Mystique wasn't it?

Pretty sure thats the one! Cant remember if I was her or on a team with her, I had forgotten I was a wolf that game.

I try ti forget when im a wolf im brutal at it

beakerjoe

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Pretty sure thats the one! Cant remember if I was her or on a team with her, I had forgotten I was a wolf that game.

I try ti forget when im a wolf im brutal at it

It was Mystique.

The joint baddy backrooms is something Id love to revisit. My fool seer made it all very interesting

Drumpot

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I think in the case of players playing two accounts, both need to be on the same team.

In the last game it made perfect sense for Tigs to run both SK accounts and made for a head exploding moment when I found out.

Here though, there were essentially 6 wolves with Wini, and there is a very (abstract? Cant think of the word) line between Orla and Wini, despite one being a powered wolf and one a supposed NRV. She was a wolf who would only peek and priest check as good, and we didn't know she existed. If Orla had died D1, would Necro have gotten to play on as Wini the NRVWolf, who was essentially Orla out of the backroom with no reentry.

I just think both accounts were essentially the same role, and so both were power roles.

If it was the point of the role that Wini could carry on as out of room Orla, thats a good idea but the role should have been joint imo, if Orla dies Wini plays as NRV Irene, if Wini dies then Orla plays as NRV Irene.

Theres also the fact that if we killed Orla and all NRVs but Wini, she would be 100% cleared with absolutely no recourse and no reason to doubt her. All the benefits of great wolf play to get yourself cleared with none of the work.

Im not complaining, and I know it wouldn't have changed a thing this game but in a tighter game people might have felt hard done by.

*edit* Got Irene and Eurus mixed up , most of the above is irrelevant I think

The riddles were fantastic, did ye do them yourselves lads? Really think they should stick around, or give us something to fight over D1.

The combined seer was interesting, the option of 1 role or 3 being teamed gives the seer a lot more leeway and freedom in their suspicions and tactics, and is something I'd love to see the return of.

Despite the above I thought Irenes role was great too, a bit like an SK/Wolf in my mind, solo ops agent working for the bad guys. If Irene was the last wolf left could she have left the backroom and played as NRV Irene? Would this have effected kill orders or anything?

On thinking, I dont know how big a fan I am of drunk roles, be it a wolf/villager that doesnt peek or priest

Ive given myself an idea for a game, Drumpot I like your post above, you in?

Do you mean am I in for modding/creating a game ? Yeh, i would be game...

andy125

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Pretty sure thats the one! Cant remember if I was her or on a team with her, I had forgotten I was a wolf that game.

I try ti forget when im a wolf im brutal at it

Yea you were mystique, as i was deadpool and calling you out on thread

Digital Solitude

beakerjoe wrote: »

It was Mystique.

The joint baddy backrooms is something Id love to revisit. My fool seer made it all very interesting

I was thinking that this game alright, whats the fool seer? A joint wolfchat with an NRV mole would be a cool one, obviously you'd need another wolf team or SK to give the NRV cover.

Maybe a Mason in the joint room

Digital Solitude

andy125 wrote: »

Yea you were mystique, as i was deadpool and calling you out on thread

Its all coming back to me...

'KNARF KNARF'

Man that was driving me up the wall, absolutely nothing I could do

Baggly

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I was thinking that this game alright, whats the fool seer? A joint wolfchat with an NRV mole would be a cool one, obviously you'd need another wolf team or SK to give the NRV cover.

Maybe a Mason in the joint room

That was good craic.

You guys had peeked Riona (i think) and were convinced she was village, yet we vetoed you killing her because she was actually on our wolf team.

#daddyslittlemonsterforeva