Passing out ego/behavior

ooter

Why is it that some people take great exception to being passed out in a run/race?
I've come across it over the years but what I experienced yesterday was bang out of order.
During the HM I was passing out a lot of people, I passed by one guy who appeared again on my shoulder shortly after and passed me out. I had zero interest in this guy (just chasing a time) and passed him out again and shortly after he appeared again on my shoulder (even closer this time) and passed me out again.
Next time I passed him out I intentionally went as wide as possible away from him and hoped he would get the message that I wasn't taking him on but when we got to the next right turn he intentionally cut straight across me from my right side, bang out of order. It was like a warning, "DON'T PASS ME OUT AGAIN!"
I knew I had a bit in the tank and was holding back a bit till the hill in the last mile but when that happened I just dropped the hammer and never seen him again.
Anyone else any experience of this behavior, if your ego can't allow you to be over taken in a race you really shouldn't be taking part?

MY BAD

ooter wrote: »

Why is it that some people take great exception to being passed out in a run/race?
I've come across it over the years but what I experienced yesterday was bang out of order.
During the HM I was passing out a lot of people, I passed by one guy who appeared again on my shoulder shortly after and passed me out. I had zero interest in this guy (just chasing a time) and passed him out again and shortly after he appeared again on my shoulder (even closer this time) and passed me out again.
Next time I passed him out I intentionally went as wide as possible away from him and hoped he would get the message that I wasn't taking him on but when we got to the next right turn he intentionally cut straight across me from my right side, bang out of order. I knew I had a bit in the tank and was holding back a bit till the hill in the last mile but when that happened I just dropped the hammer and never seen him again.
Anyone else any experience of this behavior, if your ego can't allow you to be over taken in a race you really shouldn't be taking part?

He was using you as something to push him on and help him in his race. Don't worry about him and race your own race.

Safiri

It's a race

ooter

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

He was using you as something to push him on and help him in his race. Don't worry about him and race your own race.

No problem at all with that but this wasn't the same, the course/road is plenty wide, by all means overtake, no need to intentionally cut right across someone on a bend. hard not to worry about someone when they do that.

TFBubendorfer

ooter wrote: »

No problem at all with that but this wasn't the same, the course/road is plenty wide, by all means overtake, no need to intentionally cut right across someone on a bend. hard not to worry about someone when they do that.

Someone cutting right in front of you in a bend will happen all the time. For the vast majority of incidents the runner simply misjudged the distance between him/her and you rather than any malicious intent. Especially late in a race when we're tired and the brain isn't firing on all cylinders any more.

Don't worry about it. It will happen again, don't let it get to you.

ooter

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Someone cutting right in front of you in a bend will happen all the time.

Absolutely, if it's on the inside, but not on the outside. I've never raced track before but I'd imagine if you intentionally stepped off the track to cut across someone on a bend and then step back on to pass you would be disqualified and rightly so?

Safiri

ooter wrote: »

Absolutely, if it's on the inside, but not on the outside. I've never raced track before but I'd imagine if you intentionally stepped off the track to cut across someone on a bend and then step back on to pass you would be disqualified and rightly so?

That's completely different as the DQ would be for course cutting. On the track, you might get an elbow for cutting someone off or someone trying to hold position and not a DQ. Fighting for position is an integral part of racing on the track. It can be irratating but the onus is on you to not let anyone take your position in the first place.

MY BAD

I doubt there was any malice ooter, some people just have no self awareness. Even if there was life is too short to dwell on things like that. Enjoy your race and try and forget about it is the way I look at things like that (even if you get a elbow in the ribs from a fellow runner:))

ooter

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

Even if there was life is too short to dwell on things like that. Enjoy your race and try and forget about it is the way I look at things like that (even if you get a elbow in the ribs from a fellow runner:))

Yeah you're right of course, suppose I was just trying to figure out his mentality.
Maybe I'm not describing the situation well, it was definitely more than just him attempting to pass me out.

twowheelsonly

So you're overtaking him and he shouldn't take it personally but he overtakes you and you do ???


Only joking BTW... I know what you're saying but better to let these things off and treat it as a race. No point in getting worked up over it, as others have said, he could just be using you for pacing or as a bit of competition and cutting across on a right or left hand turn as you described wouldn't be unusual.

pconn062

Safiri wrote: »

It's a race

+1

I would be pissed if someone passed me in a race, because.....it's a race. Don't know if ego really comes into it, pride maybe. I wouldn't cut someone off though, but I would try to get right back on their shoulder ASAP (if I can). With cutting you off it sounds like, unfortunately, you just met an asshole.

ooter

Maybe it's just me but I would only consider it a race if I've a realistic chance of winning it, which is a position I've never been in. They are mass participation events but in reality the only person you're racing is yourself, unless you're a club runner wearing a club singlet, which I'm not.
Mid pack in a HM on a wide open road/course was no place for carrying on the way this fella was.

pconn062

ooter wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I would only consider it a race if I've a realistic chance of winning it, which is a position I've never been in. They are mass participation events but in reality the only person you're racing is yourself, unless you're a club runner wearing a club singlet, which I'm not.
Mid pack in a HM on a wide open road/course was no place for carrying on the way this fella was.

Well you raced him, and you bet him. You said it yourself, you ran hard up a hill to get away from him, that's racing. Good racing.

Not really true to say that unless you are going to win the race, it's not racing. Most people don't run to win races, but racing the man/woman is just as important (IMO more important) than whatever the time is.

Hurrache

ooter wrote: »

Anyone else any experience of this behavior,

Like racing?

Djoucer

When did people start believing you only race a race if you have a chance of winning?

Bizarre mentality.

Go to any IMRA/XC race and arguably the most intense racing is between mid packers. That’s the beauty of running races. Regardless of your level, you can experience intense competition (and make up rivalries in your head.)

I get big races like the Dublin series would have a lot of people doing it for the craic. But it’s more craic if you race those around you.

Murph_D

Unless he stepped off the course to ‘cut you off’, it sounds like he was just running the racing line - maybe a little aggressively which was annoying but that annoyance can be a boost for you, and it was, as it seems to have motivated you to leave him in the dust.

Pink11

I get where you're coming from OP, I was annoyed quite a few times. I witnessed alot of weaving and cutting on Saturday it was ridiculous. Hadn't witnessed that level of it in a long time.

I'm a 5ft 1 female and shoved by a big tall guy! That was the worst of it for me.

And I'm not a very competitive person honestly. I only ever compete with myself!

DubOnHoliday

There’s nothing in that behavior unless it causes you to stop or take evasive action if it’s too close. It’s just racing. Unfortunately I couldn’t ignore the guy who just stopped in his tracks whilst running up the last hill. He just stopped and put his arms above his head out of breath, which is grand but get out of the racing line first.

Slow_Runner

I remember a recent 5k I was doing (not going for a pb but just using it as a sort of hard tempo run), kept passing a guy who would then pick up and pass me which did irk me a bit but thought "it's racing", at 4k mark I put the boot down and he still he tried to pass me so really put the boot down and thought I was clear when he just pipped me at the finish line (looking at the photos he was a good 10m behind me with 100m to go so he must have pulled out all the stops!!). At the time I was kinda annoyed (saw him at the next race and made a mental note not to get caught again - ended up with a pb that day ).
Was I wrong to be annoyed - no but it is racing, he used me to push himself and possibly got a pb out of it so fair play, I pushed myself the next race and got a pb (partially down to him) so all is good.
Having said that he did not cross over in front of me or impede me, I think in the OPs case the other runner was racing him (fair enough) however in doing so he impeded him (not fair and unsportsmanlike) .

loudymacloud

As most people here have said, its just racing and you bet the guy, despite the possible intentional cut off, so wouldnt have a second thought about it.

a while back i had a guy continuosly cut in front of me and block my path at a Parkrun, a Parkrun for gods sake. I thought it was hilarious.

Let him do it for 2/3km then powered past him in the last km, he was so pissed off at the finish line.

Some people just take it a little be too serious.

Saying that i would also get a bit peeved when someone passes me, but it only spurs you on a bit.

robinph

Taking the racing line around a corner is fine. But not if you are only half a stride ahead of the person behind you. If you have someone on your shoulder going around a corner and you are not properly infront of them, then squeezing them out of the way such that they have to brake and you should be expecting a slap.

I'd deliberately take the long way round corners at the start of mass races in order to avoid the mayhem of everyone tripping each other up. But later on in a race I do try and anticipate if the person on my shoulder is going to be a dick about the next corner or not, and if they are paying attention to the people beside them or not and will often be giving people a tap on the shoulder as they start encroaching on the space where my foot is about to land.

Same as with driving on the road though, never change lanes/ direction/ position without checking behind you first.

glacial_pace71

I wouldn't take it too personally. You mention that you were working your way up through the pack. Presumably this other person was also doing the same - though he'd appear to have tagged onto you as a pacing/racing target.

I started at the back of the first wave and overtook several hundred people over the course of the race. I overtook on the grass where viable, but there were chokepoints with spectators, barriers etc, so the only course of action was to weave in and out. After a few miles I began to recognise a few familiar singlets, running tops, leggings etc as about 8 or 9 people seems to be in and around my pace as they progressed through the throngs. Some would 'bulldoze' their way through quite rudely, which allowed me through in their slipstream, others do some sort of elaborate salsa-style sashaying around those in front, which would inevitably make me look clumsy in comparison when lumbering through.

In that regard your unwanted companion could have been part of a group of people of a similar pace to you, just working their way through the ranks. You might only have noticed him more on account of his limpeting onto your running line. It'd be best not to take it too personally, though it can be annoying in a half-marathon in comparison to a 10k or a 5 miler, as there's a lot more place-swapping to endure over the course of the event.

A year or two ago Sonia O'Sullivan wrote an article about the joys of cycling but found that some guys just took umbrage to being overtaken by a mere woman. Yes, an Olympian had to gently put manners on their fragile egos by overtaking them again, perhaps let them pass again on a hill or bend, and then overtake them again until it began to register that they're not at the races.

Chivito550

There's a reason it's called a race.

If you are only interested in a time trial then go run by yourself with the Garmin.

ooter

Djoucer wrote: »

I get big races like the Dublin series would have a lot of people doing it for the craic. But it’s more craic if you race those around you.

In big races you could race someone down the home straight and finish ahead of them only to discover later that the guy you "beat" ran a faster time than you, happened to me recently in the RnR 5k, a lad I know finished about 5 secs ahead of me and looked like the cat who got the cream, but I knew I had run faster than him and said nothing. He was all talk after the race but strangely quiet the following Monday in work.

Itziger

The amount of people here saying 'it's called racing'............ Sounds to me, if we believe the OP, that it's being a dick. You can race and race hard without cutting people at corners and clipping their heels and so on. It's not the bleedin' Olympics 1500 metres we're talking about. A little respect while running your best never killed anyone.

walshb

Who exactly are you racing in a HM with thousands of all types of runners?

You are racing nobody but yourself and the clock....

Elites and quality runners is a different story...

Hurrache

Itziger wrote: »

The amount of people here saying 'it's called racing'............ Sounds to me, if we believe the OP, that it's being a dick. You can race and race hard without cutting people at corners and clipping their heels and so on. It's not the bleedin' Olympics 1500 metres we're talking about. A little respect while running your best never killed anyone.

Nobody had their heels clipped, and so on, in this story.

rm75

ooter wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I would only consider it a race if I've a realistic chance of winning it, which is a position I've never been in. They are mass participation events but in reality the only person you're racing is yourself, unless you're a club runner wearing a club singlet, which I'm not.
Mid pack in a HM on a wide open road/course was no place for carrying on the way this fella was.

Dunno, i've had a fair few sprint finishes at the end of parkruns with people!
Similar in road races. Usually leads to a decent chat with my "opposition" when we finish. Might be working with someone in a longer race, but we will still try and beat each other in the finish.

bucketybuck

I've never cared about people passing me, I tend to be racing my own times so everything else is just the backdrop.

I do though always wonder about the people who pass me and then drop off again. Like, if you are faster then go ahead of me, if you are slower then don't, thats the whole concept, but why are you speeding up and then slowing down again? Why are you sprinting past me and then stopping to walk? And then doing it again and again?

Maybe its me that is wrong and I should embrace the run/walk strategy.

Burkie1203

ooter wrote: »

Why is it that some people take great exception to being passed out in a run/race?
I've come across it over the years but what I experienced yesterday was bang out of order.
During the HM I was passing out a lot of people, I passed by one guy who appeared again on my shoulder shortly after and passed me out. I had zero interest in this guy (just chasing a time) and passed him out again and shortly after he appeared again on my shoulder (even closer this time) and passed me out again.
Next time I passed him out I intentionally went as wide as possible away from him and hoped he would get the message that I wasn't taking him on but when we got to the next right turn he intentionally cut straight across me from my right side, bang out of order. It was like a warning, "DON'T PASS ME OUT AGAIN!"
I knew I had a bit in the tank and was holding back a bit till the hill in the last mile but when that happened I just dropped the hammer and never seen him again.
Anyone else any experience of this behavior, if your ego can't allow you to be over taken in a race you really shouldn't be taking part?

Its a case of another runner who cant pace themselves properly and end up gassing themselves very early.

tomwaits48

I'm more annoyed about the fella who stuttered right in front of me to take out his phone for a selfie. I hope he captured my glare with all the aggression I had intended. twat.

terminator74

walshb wrote: »

Who exactly are you racing in a HM with thousands of all types of runners?

You are racing nobody but yourself and the clock....

Elites and quality runners is a different story...

if you are not racing then what are you doing? its about pushing yourself to compete and get across the line before others. if you are in anyway serious about competing (whether for a time, position, team place or against yourself) you race. if you are not racing in a race you are just running. Otherwise don't get so het up about it. There are many athletes who compete in huge fields and still race

Burkie1203

tomwaits48 wrote: »

I'm more annoyed about the fella who stuttered right in front of me to take out his phone for a selfie. I hope he captured my glare with all the aggression I had intended. twat.

That went on a fair bit on first 1k of the rock n roll.

estariol

IMO the biggest behaviour giving rise to these type of issues is those runners who start in the wrong place for their ability. Especially if they are in groups, ends up frustrating faster runners and causing surges. Doesn't help when routes are over subscribed and selfish folk start as close to the front as possible regardless of their ability.

Noticed a lot of club singlets in the last couple of years running in groups of 4/5 causing blockages at pinch point not to even mention pacer groups. Making space has become a necessity and surges and weaving have become inevitable.

Pink11

estariol wrote: »

IMO the biggest behaviour giving rise to these type of issues is those runners who start in the wrong place for their ability. Especially if they are in groups, ends up frustrating faster runners and causing surges. Doesn't help when routes are over subscribed and selfish folk start as close to the front as possible regardless of their ability.

Noticed a lot of club singlets in the last couple of years running in groups of 4/5 causing blockages at pinch point not to even mention pacer groups. Making space has become a necessity and surges and weaving have become inevitable.

Big problem on Saturday again. People running slowly in lines of 4/5 blocking the WHOLE path chit chatting away between the 1.40 and 1.50 pacers. No offence to anyone but they are not running even close to that pacing. Rest of us were left running around them on uneven ground to get pass causing bottlenecks in tight areas.

Also people who are WALKING the whole thing seem to see no issue with starting near the front also!

IvoryTower

Id avoid those massive Dublin races, don't see the attraction at all

backofthepack

Pink11 wrote: »

Also people who are WALKING the whole thing seem to see no issue with starting near the front also!

I couldn't get over the amount of people stopping to walk in the middle of the pack,
by all means stop if you need to, but move to the side!

walshb

terminator74 wrote: »

if you are not racing then what are you doing? its about pushing yourself to compete and get across the line before others. if you are in anyway serious about competing (whether for a time, position, team place or against yourself) you race. if you are not racing in a race you are just running. Otherwise don't get so het up about it. There are many athletes who compete in huge fields and still race

I did not say you weren’t racing. I asked “who” are you racing?

These mass participation races, or runs see so many people running.

Apart from the elites, who usually all know each other, who are the rest of the nobodies racing? Other nobodies that they have no clue about?

You are racing yourself and your PB and the clock. The rest of the nobodies just happen to be close by doing the same thing. They can spur you on, pace you, or give you hope or encouragement, but make no mistake, you are not racing them. Nobody cares.

Trust me, I have run these races/events...it’s the course/clock you’re racing, not the thousands of complete strangers who know nothing about each other.

Itziger

walshb wrote: »

terminator74 wrote: »

if you are not racing then what are you doing? its about pushing yourself to compete and get across the line before others. if you are in anyway serious about competing (whether for a time, position, team place or against yourself) you race. if you are not racing in a race you are just running. Otherwise don't get so het up about it. There are many athletes who compete in huge fields and still race

I did not say you weren’t racing. I asked “who” are you racing?

These mass participation races, or runs see so many people running.

Apart from the elites, who usually all know each other, who are the rest of the nobodies racing? Other nobodies that they have no clue about?

You are racing yourself and your PB and the clock. The rest of the nobodies just happen to be close by doing the same thing. They can spur you on, pace you, or give you hope or encouragement, but make no mistake, you are not racing them. Nobody cares.

Trust me, I have run these races/events...it’s the course/clock you’re racing, not the thousands of complete strangers who know nothing about each other.

You always have to demean someone in your posts. 'Nobodies' versus 'nobodies' and 'nobody' cares. Trust me, you say, You're 'aving a laugh, m8!
I bet the vast majority of runners on here recognise others of a more or less similar ability in these races you speak of. They will have a good idea how a few are going in training and will spot fellas who've beaten 'em and who they have beaten. I would wager that during the race new challenges will emerge. You spot someone who looks to be going really well and think 'I'm going to try hang on to this guy for as long as possible'. Then there's the show off who you swear you'll beat. There's the 'fast' female who you'd love to finish ahead of. I could go on. Club mates, former club mates, training partners and so on and so on. So, no, you don't have to be up at the very top end to be able to race these events. 
Me, I know a good few who I spot at the 10k or Half marathon races I do most years. Then there's social media, you can see some runners' progress in training on that. Why wouldn't you care? 
Ultimately, of course the great public don't care. We know that; we're not stupid. It's not as if they care whether Travers beats Clohissey either mind

Hurrache

I've much more interest in seeing how mates race than the 'somebodies'.

Anyway, regulars here know that posts from that guy are best ignored.

walshb

Itziger wrote: »

You always have to demean someone in your posts. 'Nobodies' versus 'nobodies' and 'nobody' cares.

Maybe I was a little too direct/abrupt...I wasn’t trying to insult anyone.

But really, mass participation races/racing are kind of dumbed down versions of actual racing/races. That was more the point I was trying to convey..

Pink11

IvoryTower wrote: »

Id avoid those massive Dublin races, don't see the attraction at all

I made a conscious decision this year to attend some of the other races outside of Dublin and I was blown away every time. Only for the fact I had signed up to the half on Saturday back in January, I would have gone to Charleville instead.

(i'm a non dub living in dublin at the mo )

gucci

Djoucer wrote: »

When did people start believing you only race a race if you have a chance of winning?

Bizarre mentality.

Go to any IMRA/XC race and arguably the most intense racing is between mid packers. That’s the beauty of running races. Regardless of your level, you can experience intense competition (and make up rivalries in your head.)

I get big races like the Dublin series would have a lot of people doing it for the craic. But it’s more craic if you race those around you.

I havent read many more of the posts here, but this a million times over!
Especially a XC series where your pitting youself against the same people regularly. Theres few things more satisfying or killing than that last slog up a hill or whatever to finish off someone you have been toe to toe with!

FWIW i have never won a race, and more than likely never will, but the give and take mini battles or targets during a race is what keeps me going....the last thing i want to do is actually listen to whats going on inside my head, if i can focus on some lad 20m ahead and say "I'm gonna catch him" or "I'm not gonna let him get any further away" then thats what running in a race is to me!

tomwaits48 wrote: »

I'm more annoyed about the fella who stuttered right in front of me to take out his phone for a selfie. I hope he captured my glare with all the aggression I had intended. twat.

This is hilarous. WTF?