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The future of public transport for Cork City Centre

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    #32
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,564 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    flexcon wrote: »
    A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

    They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

    not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

    And yet you'll still have the usual suspects on here screaming at car drivers that they should be using our wonderful public transport network instead.....


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    #33
    opus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭opus


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    fair play to the 'big US company' for providing this and tough shít for Bus Eireann.

    EMC & VMware have been doing this for years to/from Ballincollig & Ovens. It might be up to three buses now to cater for demand.


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    #34
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    fair play to the 'big US company' for providing this and tough shít for Bus Eireann.

    It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.


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    #35
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.
    Ask the taxpayers in the big US company if they feel it's tough shít on them.
    I worked there once, suffered the terrible service; happy for the workers/tax-payers that they may now get a reliable service.


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    #36
    Captainsatnav
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Captainsatnav


    Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »
    I'm in Belfast at the moment, and just noticed their brand new Glider buses - similar to Bus Rapid Transit, very high quality and always on time. Seriously impressed.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Rapid_Transport

    http://www.translink.co.uk/also-on-our-site/Glider/

    I wonder can we expect something similar for Cork in the near future?

    Belfast, as a city in similar size and population to Cork, has incredibly efficient and user-friendly public transport.

    The cost of the underground subway for Dublin could instead be used to improve what we already have - buses, light rail, heavy rail. It is incredibly frustrating to see so much money being spent on this project for just a few stations and again, just Dublin.

    Cork's public transport needs a serious overhaul.

    Ah Belfast has a population of about 800k I believe...


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    #37
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Captainsatnav wrote: »
    Ah Belfast has a population of about 800k I believe...

    It does in it's bollox, the urban area is about 450k, the Cork urban area is less than half the size at 210k


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    #38
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Ask the taxpayers in the big US company if they feel it's tough shít on them.
    I worked there once, suffered the terrible service; happy for the workers/tax-payers that they may now get a reliable service.

    I'm sure they are delighted but you've missed the point of the post.


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    #39
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Comparing Cork and Belfast is not a worthwhile exercise. Belfast and Cork have had vastly different histories over the past 50 years, and also into the next few. No company in their right mind would invest in Belfast at present.


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    #40
    run_Forrest_run
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    It's a PSO route so the tough shít is ultimately on the the taxpayer if fare paying revenue declines.

    so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.


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    #41
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.

    Scrap the bus to Knocka? Interesting thought.


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    #42
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    I'm sure they are delighted but you've missed the point of the post.
    No I didn't. You did.


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    #43
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    No I didn't. You did.

    No. You definitely did. :pac:


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    #44
    thejuggler
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭thejuggler


    Brings back memories of Charlie Wolf's late night talkshow in the early years of RedFM where he used to play what he dubbed the 'knocknaheeny bus song' on a daily basis - essentially a recording of the wheels on the bus with a lot of added breaking glass sound effects. Wasn't there a period where the 202 was suspended after 7pm for fear of vandalism?


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    #45
    run_Forrest_run
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    thejuggler wrote: »
    Brings back memories of Charlie Wolf's late night talkshow in the early years of RedFM where he used to play what he dubbed the 'knocknaheeny bus song' on a daily basis - essentially a recording of the wheels on the bus with a lot of added breaking glass sound effects. Wasn't there a period where the 202 was suspended after 7pm for fear of vandalism?

    yep, that was a few years ago but yep, it happened, and rightfully so.


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    #46
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    flexcon wrote: »
    A family member works for a big US company on the northside.

    They were told yesterday that they are getting their own private Bus route since the 202 bus was so unreliable and chaotic. I actually remember him saying this to myself last year, so it's been going on a while it seems.

    not sure on the details how that would work, but if that company has its employees choosing the private bus over the 202 - then you'd think that could be a huge loss on annual leap card revenue.

    As someone who has used the 202 daily for the last 2+ years, I can totally back this up. Its an absolute joke of a service, its supposed to be every 10 minutes but it wouldn't be uncommon for a 40 minute wait on a weekday morning.
    Its over subscribed, its always packed to the brim going both ways.

    Not only is there the big multinational on the North Side, but at the other end of the route you have Abtran, Voxpro, City Gate and Mahon Point.

    In the middle you have all the people commuting to work in the city center, as well as all the secondary school kids and colleges.

    Its pretty much non functional at the moment. Even a two minute delay at any point is critical. It cannot be relied upon and I'm routinely late for work because of it.


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    #47
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    Listen they can't even get some of the hopeless bitter drivers to turn on the Real Time information tracker in the current buses they are driving, forget these shiny plans and reports and just get the basics working and then we can see where things stand.

    Public transport in Cork: A joke of a system, nothing will change until you change the mindset of the unions and the workers.


    given the unions don't make any decisians or run the company, then they have nothing to do with how an individual driver behaves. if anyone is concerned by a driver's behaviour, then report it to the company and follow it up.
    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    To change the mindset you have to convince the commuting public that they can rely on public transport and then they will begin to leave their cars at home.

    If people have repeatedly been left stranded waiting for a bus, making them late for work etc then don't expect them to easily change their mindset.

    or just implement a congestion charge and force them out of their cars. lots and lots of cars is no longer sustainible or cost effective to cater for.
    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    well not that I'm accusing anyone of anything illegal but you may be on to something there, I'm sure part of their payment tied in with their contract of employment is handling money etc and the responsibility that goes with it. Now take that role away and they may not be in a stronger position for wage increases etc. I'd say the unions mightn't like it.

    handling money has nothing to do with wage increases. if they want wage increases they have plenty of ways to leverage them, handling cash isn't one. given the non-handling of cash would be much much safer for drivers then the union most certainly isn't going to oppose the removal of that role.
    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    so scrap this PSO then, clearly Bus Eireann aren't doing their job.

    that would leave people without a service altogether, which would achieve absolutely nothing apart from putting more cars on the road. improving the service, employing management down there who will actually manage, is the better value option.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #48
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    What a pile of crap. Perhaps you need to re-read my post? Public transport sucks because it is essentially a social welfare payment to lazy, antisocial bus / train drivers. These people bear a serious grudge against their customers and, I have little doubt, delight in causing disruption to commuters. Make the service reliable and people will use it - why would they not? The problem currently is that it cannot be relied upon in any fashion. You may blame cars on the road for this as much as you like - and it is no doubt one cause - but the elephant in the room is the drivers, who will not provide a proper service no matter how much money is thrown at them.

    FYI I had a taxsaver ticket two separate years and still resorted to driving much of the time as public transport was so useless - and it's gotten a hell of a lot worse since then, especially the buses.

    it is neither, essentially or definitely, a "social welfare payment to lazy, antisocial bus / train drivers" . and unless you know every single train or bus driver, your comments about them are nothing more then generalised, inaccurate, and ill informed rants. are there bad drivers, absolutely. are they all the same, no they aren't.
    if the drivers are not providing the service, then perhapse if enough complain so that the management are left with no option but to actually do their job, then perhapse people will get somewhere.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #49
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    end of the road wrote: »
    if the drivers are not providing the service, then perhapse if enough complain so that the management are left with no option but to actually do their job, then perhapse people will get somewhere.
    Management are as protected as the drivers.
    Unfortunately Bus Eireann is not implemented to put the customer first.


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    #50
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Management are as protected as the drivers.
    Unfortunately Bus Eireann is not implemented to put the customer first.

    bus eireann (CIE at the time) was implemented to operate a basic public transport service, and grudgingly at that. the politicians weren't interested in that system being of good quality, just as long as it existed.
    if bus eireann management are protected, then they will be the only ones protected in that company, and you will need to (depending on what political party you vote for) reconsider that vote.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #51
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    end of the road wrote: »
    bus eireann (CIE at the time) was implemented to operate a basic public transport service, and grudgingly at that. the politicians weren't interested in that system being of good quality, just as long as it existed.
    if bus eireann management are protected, then they will be the only ones protected in that company, and you will need to (depending on what political party you vote for) reconsider that vote.
    Which party have plans to transform Bus Eireann, changing the system from top down? And which party will live up to their waffle when promising it?
    Management are protected, as are the drivers; the Unions see to that.


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    #52
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Which party have plans to transform Bus Eireann, changing the system from top down? And which party will live up to their waffle when promising it?
    Management are protected, as are the drivers; the Unions see to that.

    the drivers aren't protected. the only thing the unions see to is dealing with terms and conditions and insuring the company abides by all relevant employment and other legislation. the union cannot protect anyone from disciplinary or any other action where that action is justifiable and there is the evidence required to justify it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #53
    run_Forrest_run
    Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    end of the road your ideas are admirable but it will be a cold day in hell before things improve in that joke of a company for as long as they are propped up by the taxpayer, why? Because there is zero accountability.


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    #54
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    run_Forrest_run wrote: »
    end of the road your ideas are admirable but it will be a cold day in hell before things improve in that joke of a company for as long as they are propped up by the taxpayer, why? Because there is zero accountability.


    being propped up by the tax payer has nothing to do with it as whoever would operate the routes will be the same in a round about way as they will be given money to operate them. bus eireann PSO exists for the most part on a mix of fares income and subsidy which is necessary given most of their routes don't have the populations to be profitible. eventually though it will quite likely be a fixed fee paid but fares income going to the NTA, who the users of the bus service in cork should also be complaining to because they have a huge part in this given they are the regulator.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #55
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    end of the road wrote: »
    being propped up by the tax payer has nothing to do with it as whoever would operate the routes will be the same in a round about way as they will be given money to operate them. bus eireann PSO exists for the most part on a mix of fares income and subsidy which is necessary given most of their routes don't have the populations to be profitible. eventually though it will quite likely be a fixed fee paid but fares income going to the NTA, who the users of the bus service in cork should also be complaining to because they have a huge part in this given they are the regulator.

    Anytime I have contacted the NTA regarding poor or non-existent service in Cork, they have given me a completely cop-out reply, basically 'not our problem'.


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    #56
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »
    Anytime I have contacted the NTA regarding poor or non-existent service in Cork, they have given me a completely cop-out reply, basically 'not our problem'.


    i'm not surprised at that. however you need to keep doing it. giving up lets them away. same with all other users. keep contacting bus eireann, NTA and anyone else relevant.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Because filling the road with even more cars is clearly better.

    No, actually being able to arrive at your destination is clearly better


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    #58
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    end of the road wrote: »
    the drivers aren't protected
    Yes they are.


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    #59
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Public transport fares annual review going up from 1st December. For Cork that means standard bus fare going up from €2.30 to €2.40 for cash, a 10c increase. Leap Card going from €1.61 to €1.68, a 7c rise.


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    #60
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,564 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Ah lads, who told EOTR about the Cork forum?!.......


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    #61
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,092 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Yes they are.


    no they aren't. you don't have to except that fact but fact it is
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Ah lads, who told EOTR about the Cork forum?!.......

    i have a little nack to sniff out for people making anti-union/anti- public transport worker and all other similar ill-informed generalisations, wherever they may be. no part of boards is safe. after all, you wouldn't like it, as neither would i, if people made the same generalisations about us and all other workers in our respective jobs. so fair is fair.
    in fact such generalisations not only help nobody, but they take away from the actual issue and that is the reliability of the service.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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