Groves v Smith

Morrison J

megadodge wrote: »

I would disagree. I am really pissed off with myself in the prediction competition, as all week I was fancying Smith, but to be honest I chickened out in the end.

I think people were completely overreacting to his semi-final performance where he was kind of going through the motions with a late sub. A lot of sports people perform to the level of their opponents, so when they meet better opposition they perform better, as they are really up for it, totally zoned in, aware of the importance, etc. and by the same token, when taking on someone they don't deem a challenge they can be underwhelming.

Having watched Smith since the beginning of his career I always thought he had what it took. I really think he will be hard beaten for the next few years.... unless weight becomes an issue, which it could as he's bloody enormous for a super-middle.

He hasnt impressed me since the Mohoumadi fight to be honest. Been on a stretch of bang average performances. The Skoglund one was where I really turned off him. Just looked stiff and quite one paced. Thought it was probably to do with struggles at the weight tbh because he always seems to lull through rounds if he didn't get his opponent out early.

Seems it was less to do with the weight and more to do with fighting down to his level/concentration issues because he was bang up for it from the bell tonight. Would give serious credit to anyone who backed him at nearly even money with confidence though. I really didn't see that coming.

Morrison J

Johner wrote: »

I think people were definitely overrating Groves, it was hard to tell were Smith was at as his career seemed to have stalled a bit the last few years. He was beating nobodies and making it look hard work but I think he's one of those who will be better against better fighters. That size and reach advantage would be a nightmare for many.

Underrating Smith more than overrating Groves for me. Groves is a quality operator who has on the run of his career. Hope this loss doesn't define his career like the Froch losses did for so long. He deserves to go down as one of the better British fighters of this generation. Had a brilliant career and never shyed away from fighting the best.

carltonleon

And what about the main talking point of the whole night .... who on earth designed that trophy ?? It was absolutely horrendous and cheap looking ....

walshb

Smith could turn out to be the real deal, but I don’t think last night’s performance is the necessary indicator. I had said that it was Smith’s first real test, but Groves was so oddly passive and negative, that it is too soon to say that Smith had shown his real class. Same Smith for me. Composed, neat, technically sound...

But Groves really was no challenge. Looked like a man scared...

I think it’s kind of sad that these two men were fighting it out for the title of number 1 SMW on earth....if they are the best then to me it’s disappointing...

If the SMW division from 8-9-10 years ago was a 10/10, this crop and era is a 7...

weemcd

The man in red and black wrote: »

What did he say/do?

He challenged Eubank Jr to a straightener after the fight outside, bare knuckle style.

You had your chance and you blew it, no point saying anything different now. A fool.

normanoffside

The cards were split after 6 rounds:
57-57
59-55 to Groves
59-55 to Smith

Mad how the scores can be so different.

anthonyjmaher

Oh ffs, I thought this was on tonight. What am I gonna watch tonight, Ray f**king D'Arcy?

JJ was funny though. Pulls out of the fight with an injured shoulder, and when he doesn't like what Eubank says, he offers him a straightner in the car park. lol

weemcd

Seems fairly clear now McDonagh threw the fight in the 4th, lot of messages going around yesterday as others have said in this thread.

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

The cards were split after 6 rounds:
57-57
59-55 to Groves
59-55 to Smith

Mad how the scores can be so different.

It’s not mad. Same in amateurs. I have judged many 30/27 and another judge goes 30/27 the other way...

Some difficult to score rds last night...

Rjd2

weemcd wrote: »

Seems fairly clear now McDonagh threw the fight in the 4th, lot of messages going around yesterday as others have said in this thread.

Bookies have from what I seen settled in the third though, so something has gone wrong somewhere:pac:

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

It’s not mad. Same in amateurs. I have judged many 30/27 and another judge goes 30/27 the other way...

Some difficult to score rds last night...

I was only watching it on a Mobile on 3G but I thought Smith was completely in control.

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

I was only watching it on a Mobile on 3G but I thought Smith was completely in control.

Yes, the overall flow did seem to suggest that, but the rds were a little scrappy...

Smith was controlling the flow and ring better, but both were not really establishing a clear offense...it was a bit disjointed there, hence why maybe the scores were differing..

CatFromHue

anthonyjmaher wrote: »

Oh ffs, I thought this was on tonight. What am I gonna watch tonight, Ray f**king D'Arcy?

JJ was funny though. Pulls out of the fight with an injured shoulder, and when he doesn't like what Eubank says, he offers him a straightner in the car park. lol

he didn't show any shoulder issues during the fight.......

FTA69

I had Groves 5-1. Not because I thought Groves was dominating or anything but because the rounds were scrappy, his output was a bit higher and he was landing slightly more I thought. Fair enough Groves was buzzed a few times but a single straight right that jellies the legs for a second isn't scored higher than one that doesn't.

walshb

Well, quality and force/impact of punches can be judged differently...

So, a shot that wobbles/jellies the legs or hurts could well be scored more highly than one that doesn’t..

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Not a quit whatsoever.

I watched again. It was the dictionary definition of a quit job.

That is not me slagging him. Watch him. He is aware, lucid, and nods his disapproval to his corner. He had enough and quit. Was up then walking around.

Not saying he wasn’t hurt, but not to the point where he couldn’t beat the count and go back out.

He is not the first and won’t be the last fighter to quit. He’s human..he had reached his limit, but more so mentally.

mada82

I think it was the body shot that kept him down.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

I watched again. It was the dictionary definition of a quit job.

That is not me slagging him. Watch him. He is aware, lucid, and nods his disapproval to his corner. He had enough and quit. Was up then walking around.

Not saying he wasn’t hurt, but not to the point where he couldn’t beat the count and go back out.

He is not the first and won’t be the last fighter to quit. He’s human..he had reached his limit, but more so mentally.

Did you think Linares quit against Lomachenko too?

I don't see those as quits at all. Done by body shots so good that there's no coming back from them.

walshb

mada82 wrote: »

I think it was the body shot that kept him down.

No. It wasn’t. Watch it again. Body shot landed and not much reaction. Watch Groves when he is down. That is the key.

walshb

Morrison J wrote: »

Did you think Linares quit against Lomachenko too?

I don't see those as quits at all. Done by body shots so good that there's no coming back from them.

Linares looked more beat and in pain than Groves.

Groves was more mentally beaten. He quit...

Like me I said, it’s not a dig at the man..

Same with Brook...Spence beat the fight out of him. Brook quit..

Just that the Brook quit was after 10/11 hard rds..

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Linares looked more beat and in pain than Groves.

Groves was more mentally beaten. He quit...

Like me I said, it’s not a dig at the man..

Same with Brook...Spence beat the fight out of him. Brook quit..

Just that the Brook quit was after 10/11 hard rds..

Plus a broken eye socket from earlier in the fight.

There was a very obvious physical 'wince' by Groves when hit by that right to the body. He never saw it coming and I think it's pretty clear that that was the punch that finished him off.

Sprinter Sacre

I'd have to agree with walshy. Groves is usually made of very strong stuff, when he was in cuckoo land against Froch he still tried his damndest to get up and plead to continue whereas here he kind of just consciously stayed down. I think quit might be too strong a word but I definitely think he threw in the towel a little too early.

walshb

Sprinter, I was going to mention Froch 1..

He was in far worse shape and was pleading to go on..

The body shot is being used here. It was clean, but watch again, it did not cripple him. He went down after more shots post body shot. Didn’t look to me that the body shot was the one that kept him down..

He had enough and decided he didn’t want to get up to go back into battle..

Morrison J

Really don't think he was in worse shape in Froch 1. It's far easier to keep throwing back when buzzed to the head compared to hurt to the body.

I can't speak to how much it crippled him, only Groves can. Body shots aren't instant. Can take seconds till the hurt actually kicks in so saying he took more shots to the head after isn't really relevant.

walshb

He could have gotten up and continued...He consciously chose not to.

The body shot did not stop him rising to continue...

It was not like Paddy Barnes a few weeks back...

mada82

walshb wrote: »

He could have gotten up and continued...He consciously chose not to.

The body shot did not stop him rising to continue...

It was not like Paddy Barnes a few weeks back...

You don’t actually know that though. It’s your opinion and you are stating it as fact.

Normally body shots have a slightly delayed reaction. He was buzzed from the initial shot that sent him backwards and took a hard body shot and another clean head shot. When the body shot hit you can see the arms lower a little.

I think it’s just a case of clinical finishing from smith.

Groves definitely wasn’t at his best. Was that his first time giving up a big height and reach advantage?

walshb

Of course, only GG knows...

But from what I saw he chose to stay down..

And yes, it was clinical finishing from Smith.

The second the count completed up Groves got...

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

That happens all the time in boxing, it's not in anyway indicative of someone quitting. Likewise a boxer shaking their head after getting hit to the body.

Yes, it does happen. But it’s not the only reason I think GG quit..

I think he had enough, realized that he was being broken down and that Smith was stronger and more imposing than he...This, like getting up after the count also happens in boxing..

Sprinter Sacre

I don't know, if the body shot was so ripping you might have seen more pain on his face. Remember when the likes of Maidana and Gatti were pounded by body shots, it was written on their face. Groves had his head down, aware of things, nodding away to the ref and then shaking his head to say he'd enough. No real deep breaths or visible pain on his face tbh.

walshb

The rds may have been close to score due to some scrappiness, but Smith was imposing his physicality and strength on GG, and GG knew it, and felt it..he was hurting him, and simply overwhelmed him. I think GG knew this, was genuinely hurting, and felt that he was not going to turn it around, hence he quit rather than trying to fight on against something he felt or knew he couldn’t stop.