Travellers want a state apology

Loves_lorries

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

I work around the country a lot I could be in Kerry one week and Donegal the next. During the course of the job I would talk to a lot of farmers and i usually ask them what’s the area like, do you ever get any hassle etc. They all have the same stories about travellers. Most of them have had stuff robbed by the travellers or have had to run travellers off their land. They are basically the scourge of rural Ireland. They are constantly on the look out to rob portable machinery and tools that can be sold on quickly. Guards for the most part are useless in catching them. Travellers should be the ones apologising.

Rural crime is code for Traveller crime.

Padraig Mor

I'm reminded of Viz's apologies to UK gypsys:

_Brian

So they got recognition as an ethnic minority, now they want an apology.

How long until they mount a bleeding heart campaign looking for compensation ??

VinLieger

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

The number of anti-traveller threads on Boards is increasing week by week. I'm beginning to think the vast majority of Irish people have little or no sympathy for their predicament.

What predicament?

They choose to commit crimes that puts a disproportionate amount of their community in jail.

They choose to pull their kids from school at a very early age leaving them unequipped for the workforce in later life.

They choose to trash the houses they are given and live in squalor.

They choose to shun modern medicine and health advice leaving them with a life expectancy 15-20 years less than the rest of society and an infant mortality rate 4 times higher than the rest of society.

PlaneSpeeking

humberklog wrote: »

I know the writer of that article well. Many years ago when her natural mother was dying in hospital I brought her to visit to say goodbye. Rosalean was badly mistreated her whole life by the majority of her family and grew up under the watchful care of a wonderful foster lady. Every service in the country bent over backwards to give Rosalean the best of what it could.

During the visit her family got wind she was visiting her mother and charged into the hospital with the intention of attacking Rosalean. Rosalean wasn't great at using her electric chair so to make an escape I threw her over my shoulder and ran through the corridors, down a flight of stairs and into reception where thankfully there was security and Gardai.

It's really galling to read that article knowing just how much good decent people did (and do) for Rosalean all through her life and the abysmal treatment and abuse she received from her own family and the broader travelling society.

And yet- it's the "settled" community that need to give the apology.

Nearly 30 years on from that incident in the hospital she's still never said Thanks.

You are a hero. I know this is AH but seriously, no sarcasm there - I mean it. Well done.

_Brian

Being part of a society is a two way street, there needs to be give and take on both sides. Recent history shows us that travellers want a one way street where they live by their own rules but are fully accepted and supported by the wider community - that will never work

Plenty of lifestyles have been assigned to history, where are the black smiths, tin smiths, lock keepers, barge operators, steam thrashers gone to ?? The traveller lifestyle of tue 1940’s that was part of overall society and accepted has gone and is dead, what it’s been replaced with is a lifestyle of antisocial behaviour and criminal elements.

Wibbs

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I'm reminded of Viz's apologies to UK gypsys:

I remember the strip in Viz that this refers to. It's out there on the interwebs and hits a few nails on the head. It's also much more aimed at Irish or Irish ancestry Travellers than Romani Gypsies.

BrokenArrows

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Well, of course they are different. There isn't really any connection between Roma people and Romanians. I don't know why Irish people associate them.

Ok i looked into this and i was mistaken.

I had originally thought that Romani Gypsies had migrated into Romania from somewhere else and that was their main country of modern origin. However thats totally wrong.

Romania does have a large population of them (about 9% of the Romanian population) but a lot of other countries have significantly more.

BrokenArrows

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

"Somewhat similar to the Roma gipsys are different genetically than to Romanians."




Aren't the Roma mainly from the northern Indian region, not Romania?

Yes they are. I was mistaken.

Gimme A Pound

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

The number of anti-traveller threads on Boards is increasing week by week. I'm beginning to think the vast majority of Irish people have little or no sympathy for their predicament.

I am heartened by this positive development

It's clear that the first paragraph of this post is tongue in cheek - one only has to read the next sentence. Yet some folk seem to be choosing to read it as irony free.

Rubberchikken

Yeah they'll get it. Just as soon as everyone gets their property back.

Sephiroth_dude

When they realize an apology won't be coming they'll make a video demanding an apology, they'll get big man jo joyce to do it.

RobertKK

This person is a member of the council of State. So a person of influence...

https://twitter.com/ruairimckiernan/status/1044887717639868416?s=21

wexie

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

When they realize an apology won't be coming they'll make a video demanding an apology, they'll get big man jo joyce to do it.

I'd love to see Leo doing a Youtube reply to a callout

PlaneSpeeking

wexie wrote: »

I'd love to see Leo doing a Youtube reply to a callout

Biscuits all over screen now!

I'd pay to see that!!!

endacl

Im an ethnic minority!

selephonic

_Brian wrote: »

So they got recognition as an ethnic minority, now they want an apology.

How long until they mount a bleeding heart campaign looking for compensation ??

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/call-for-oireachtas-group-to-consider-reparations-for-travellers-1.3552956

Infini

In the most bluntest of term's the rest of society is not responsible for the travellers inability to cop the fúck on.

Eggs For Dinner

Avi Thundering Tearful wrote: »

It's clear that the first paragraph of this post is tongue in cheek - one only has to read the next sentence. Yet some folk seem to be choosing to read it as irony free.

Humour is very subjective. Anyone who knows me would be aware of my feelings about our mobile brethren

RobertKK

RobertKK wrote: »

The author of that article is on the National Women’s Council of Ireland.

https://twitter.com/nwci/status/1044502872107491328?s=21

Paveebeoir. Says it all really.

CrankyHaus

selephonic wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/call-for-oireachtas-group-to-consider-reparations-for-travellers-1.3552956

It's an attempt to make a wholesale copy of the USA's racial justice movement and transplant it into Ireland with travellers in the role of African-Americans. I recall Jesse Jackson visited a few years ago and made some statements about their shared struggle.

Whatever the merits of such a movement in the states it has very dubious applicability to Ireland. African Americans were transported to the US as slaves, Travellers continue to keep slaves and had their advocates attempting to defend the practice when there was a trial over it in the UK in recent years. The only similarity is that there's lots of money to be made by monetising grievance.

Paulzx

We should set up an agreement similar to the Belfast Agreement.

Lets call it the Pavee Agreement. As part of the process we'll set up an Independent International Commission on Decommissioning.


This will oversee the decommissioning of slash hooks, sulkey racers, hiace vans and the phrase "sup of milk for tha babi"

Any traveller that surrenders a stolen power tool, spool of copper wire(over 10meters) or stolen "dawg" will automaticalyl get a face to face state apology from former Taoiseach Enda Kenny. He said he would be only too delighted to carry out this task after his previous momentous declaration of travellers as an Ethnic Minority (he does however say that he's not going into a Halting site or to a funeral in case they haven't declared all the slash hooks)

Irish Guitarist

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

In America there's a profit to be made from prisoners as they makes goods for massive corporations. In Ireland there's absolutely no reason to send anyone to prison unless they really need to be kept away from the rest of the population. Even then it's rare they actually go to prison. You hear about scumbags with 80 or 90 convictions getting away with murder here all the time.

I wonder has someone from Pavee Point watched some documentary about blacks in America getting tougher prison sentences and made the ridiculous comparison to the prison system here.

A few years ago there was a story about the traveller I mentioned earlier in the local paper. It was online but unfortunately it's been removed. It made an interesting read. His lawyer described this rapist as 'naive' and went on about his tough upbringing. He ended up with a sentence of five months then returned to the halting site by the river where he continued to sexually assault women going for a walk in the evening. This fucker is laughing at the legal system. 'Naive' my bollocks.

We live in a country where Larry Murphy is walking free. We don't even imprison those who should be kept away from the population long enough. He should have been freed when he was old and incontinent and a danger to nothing more than a moth. Not let him out in his prime, built like the hulk.

Gimme A Pound

Deleted User wrote: »

We live in a country where Larry Murphy is walking free. We don't even imprison those who should be kept away from the population long enough. He should have been freed when he was old and incontinent and a danger to nothing more than a moth. Not let him out in his prime, built like the hulk.

I mean what dangerous psycho is gonna give the slightest **** about consequences with that state of affairs.

Sephiroth_dude

wexie wrote: »

I'd love to see Leo doing a Youtube reply to a callout

Joe joyce"Ya dirty ****e leo! give us our respect and apology! kathleens bike kathleens bike"

Leo then will do what Conor G did in that video a couple of posts back and pretend to start to give an apology and then tell em all to feck off .

ohnonotgmail

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Biscuits all over screen now!

I'd pay to see that!!!

I would pay good money to hear Leo say "****e in a bucket"

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

DEFTLEFTHAND

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

It's still a trade today.

You call the knacker if a large farm animal dies. They dispose of the carcass.

jim salter

VonZan wrote: »

Travellers; always the victims, never the cause. My heart bleeds for them.....

Just what we need, another bleeding heart

JohnMc1

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Joe joyce"Ya dirty ****e leo! give us our respect and apology! kathleens bike kathleens bike"

Leo then will do what Conor G did in that video a couple of posts back and pretend to start to give an apology and then tell em all to feck off .

Leo: "I would like to take this opportunity to apologize. To absolutely nobody. The Taoiseach does whatever the **** he wants."


I might develop a bit of respect for him if he finally grew a pair.

JohnMc1

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

I'm so glad we don't have a housing or medical crisis for him to worry about.:rolleyes:

Foxhound38

She's complaining about the fact that travellers are overrepresented in prisons - that's not discriminating against them if they are in there for committing crimes you silly bint.

"Ethnic culture boss" isn't a fcuking legal defence - although with our judiciary and lack of garda willingness to actually charge them it might as well be.

wexie

Foxhound38 wrote: »

She's complaining about the fact that travellers are overrepresented in prisons - that's not discriminating against them if they are in there for committing crimes you silly bint.

It would be if there was any evidence that the judicial system is more likely to convict them than regular aul Joe Blogs.

But certainly anecdotal evidence would suggest they are likely to get away with a lot more before they end up incarcerated if the reluctance of AGS to deal with them is anything to go by.

goose2005

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

Like "tinker", it's insulting because it implies that Travellers do economically useful work.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

Some muppet at that oireachtas committee looking to ban the word knacker, saying it's hate speech.

Go feck yourself. That word is an essential part of my Victorian English vocabulary. It's a superb little word.

Knacker. Knacker. Knacker.

It's a wonderful word. I'm keeping it. I'll use it every chance I get. Knackers.

How dare you accord the gypos some manner of responsibility. There's a knack to tinkering with pots and pans.

demanufactured

wexie wrote: »

They use Facebook and Whatsapp groups

They use the whutsapps and the DVDs on YouTube.

seamus

Loves_lorries wrote: »

Blacksmith's and horse shoers were also forced to abandon their lifestyle.

It's called the reality and necessity of change, you seem to think travellers should have had there nomadic existence subsidised even further.

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Loves_lorries

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Traveller culture has been funded to the rafters and championed to the rafters by various do gooder Liberal quangos down the years, we have had nothing but carrot now for decades and this approach has been a complete failure , time for stick to be used for the next twenty years.

It's going to happen eventually anyway, they are out of control when it comes to crime.

Gravelly

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Exactly what "work" are they being forced out of? Thievery?

Hoboo

seamus wrote: »

The difference is that nobody went around forcibly closing forges, forcing blacksmiths into jobs they didn't want and taking their kids away lest their kids learn to become blacksmiths.

The number of smiths naturally atrophied as the demand dropped.

No, we shouldn't be subsidising their way of life; if it doesn't work they should abandon it. But that doesn't mean we have to force it.

As the Irish should be all too aware, if you want to ignite cultural flames and cause a culture to become strong and proud, you suppress the fnck out of it.

Suppression? Will you go n ****e, lazy in school, lazy in work, want everything for nothing, spend their lives targeting and ripping vulnerable people off, stealing, breaking into property, attacking innocents, the list goes on.

Suppression my bo11ix!!

PlaneSpeeking

Gravelly wrote: »

Exactly what "work" are they being forced out of? Thievery?

They don't seem to be stifled in that area!

Wibbs

wexie wrote: »

It would be if there was any evidence that the judicial system is more likely to convict them than regular aul Joe Blogs.

But certainly anecdotal evidence would suggest they are likely to get away with a lot more before they end up incarcerated if the reluctance of AGS to deal with them is anything to go by.

I don't blame the Guards TBH Wex. Yes you have the odd muppet in the force and the putting their time in types like any other job, but having known a few down the years they're more frustrated than the average Joe with the judicial system. If you've spent months gathering evidence to charge someone, often someone who has many arrests and convictions under their belt and you bring them to court just to see them walk out with a slap on the wrist and a smile on their face you can understand their frustration.

We see headlines with a scumbag walking away with many previous convictions and we throw our arms up. Now imagine the Guards who have worked to get those convictions(knowing full well the scumbag has many more crimes they can't get him or her on) watching that up close, day after day, year after year. That goes for crime in general, Travellers add the extra spice of being even harder to pin down, never mind the "cultural sensitivity" stuff.

Take sulky racing on the roads. The Guards have to try and stop it safely. Not so easy when the types doing it are much less likely to cooperate. Then when they do stop it they're surrounded by dozens of decidedly unhelpful all the way up to openly aggressive men. So they charge a couple. What happens then? A fine, if that?

No, the rank and file Guards I don't blame. I do blame policy makers and the upper ends of the Irish legal system.

Neyite

Avi Thundering Tearful wrote: »

And why have traveller children been made to change out of their uniforms before leaving school? Why would a school enforce this? I'm inclined to believe it's because they don't want to be seen by members of their own community to be attending school.

In some UK schools in deprived areas teachers provide uniforms rescued from lost property for children who don't have any of their own, and launder them each week as well. I've read of teachers having boxes of cereal or spare underwear, socks or sanitary products in their cupboards for children coming from neglectful homes. That's so the children don't get picked on for being different or for being dirty and just get to be the same as everyone else.


So I'd say it's more likely coming from a place of kindness (and knowing that if the uniform went home it would soon get destroyed or not be seen again) rather than a place of snobbery from staff.

Gravelly

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't blame the Guards TBH Wex. Yes you have the odd muppet in the force and the putting their time in types like any other job, but having known a few down the years they're more frustrated than the average Joe with the judicial system. If you've spent months gathering evidence to charge someone, often someone who has many arrests and convictions under their belt and you bring them to court just to see them walk out with a slap on the wrist and a smile on their face you can understand their frustration.

We see headlines with a scumbag walking away with many previous convictions and we throw our arms up. Now imagine the Guards who have worked to get those convictions(knowing full well the scumbag has many more crimes they can't get him or her on) watching that up close, day after day, year after year. That goes for crime in general, Travellers add the extra spice of being even harder to pin down, never mind the "cultural sensitivity" stuff.

Take sulky racing on the roads. The Guards have to try and stop it safely. Not so easy when the types doing it are much less likely to cooperate. Then when they do stop it they're surrounded by dozens of decidedly unhelpful all the way up to openly aggressive men. So they charge a couple. What happens then? A fine, if that?

No, the rank and file Guards I don't blame. I do blame policy makers and the upper ends of the Irish legal system.

I'd agree - I've a good friend who is a guard in a town notorious for it's traveller population, and he is extremely frustrated by the system. He has repeatedly investigated crimes carried out by one particular traveller family, who have 3 generations of criminals currently active. He has caught members of this family numerous times (three of them over a dozen times each) and when the case is brought to court, they are given suspended sentences, or silly 3 or 4 month sentences, where they only serve a few weeks. He has had victims blame him, he has been assaulted by members of this family, and he knows of literally hundreds of crimes they have committed that they have gotten away with, yet he knows the next time he has one of them in court, they will walk again.

He said there is a solicitor who has a constant flow of this family on legal aid - as in, he has no week during the year in which he hasn't a case with one of them involved, and this solicitor laughs and jokes with the judge every time one of them are up in court - like it's a game to the two of them, where they both make a good living out of keeping these guys on the streets.

When it comes to criminals, and travellers especially, it is the law-abiding public that are discriminated against, and who deserve an apology and restitution.

badtoro

Throw on another referendum with the Presidential election, results should be good fun 😂

RobertKK

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/history-of-irish-traveller-community-to-be-added-to-school-curriculum-37361521.html

THE history and culture of the Irish Traveller community is to take its place on the school curriculum.

Education Minister Richard Bruton has asked the State curriculum advisory body to come up with recommendations about how it should be done.
The landmark move comes in the wake of the 2017 decision to recognise the ethnicity of the Traveller community.

I guess everyone is happy with that.

SEPT 23 1989

RobertKK wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/history-of-irish-traveller-community-to-be-added-to-school-curriculum-37361521.html



I guess everyone is happy with that.

I have said it before in a previous thread about this move

I will remove my child from class and educate them myself on this subject if this is brought in

Edgware

Well the Government want to abolish general history. The kids wont know about James Connolly or Daniel O Connell but will get the full rundown on Frog Ward and Fat Andy McDonagh

Franz Von Peppercorn

Edgware wrote: »

Well the Government want to abolish general history. The kids wont know about James Connolly or Daniel O Connell but will get the full rundown on Frog Ward and Fat Andy McDonagh

Really. When was that suggested?

Edgware

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Really. When was that suggested?

Check it out yourself as you have ****all else to do