Travellers want a state apology

work

Melendez wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are a martyr to the cause, and everybody appreciates your great effort.[/quote]
Yes your efforts are appreciated as without good mods boards is dead. I think it is poor form however to level cynical remarks at mods. Just state any grievance and move on don't be a funny fool.

All Seeing Eye

Melendez wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can’t be racist to travellers as they are white Irish with twisted DNA. Definition of racism “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior“.

Greyfox

I've never had a nice experience with a traveller. If I walked into a travellers site to ask for directions I would be met with hostility. Travellers have caused people not to like them by deciding they want to be separate from the rest of society as they have created a situation where most settled people don't get a chance meet any nice travellers.

Nitrogan

They're parasites.

If everyone lived like Travellers we'd be eating one another within months.

At some point you have to call their 'culture' out for what it is. They could not survive without handouts from normal society.

Graces7

Nitrogan wrote: »

They're parasites.

If everyone lived like Travellers we'd be eating one another within months.

At some point you have to call their 'culture' out for what it is. They could not survive without handouts from normal society.

Not could disabled folk, pensioners..

suicide_circus

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Not could disabled folk, pensioners..

being old or disabled is not a culture

Gravelly

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Not could disabled folk, pensioners..

Disabled folk and pensioners don't have an overwhelming record of destroying what's given to them, attacking those that help them, living like gangsters, and supplementing what they get with crime though.

Vincent Vega

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

You can’t be racist to travellers as they are white Irish with twisted DNA. Definition of racism “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior“.

Seems that there are a lot of people here that are really keen on splitting hairs over whether they are the right kind of intolerant or not to be considered racist.

Numerous attempts being made to justify this on here and other Traveller related threads.

If not racist, I'd like to think these same people would have the self awareness, and be proud enough in how and what they think about a whole class of people, to at the very least identify as bigots.

Loves_lorries

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

That's a good idea & sounds like a good place to start. I think your always going to have your nutters who just wont accept certain people no matter how good a person is & law abiding they are. I mean you've still got Loyalists up North who would rather put a bullet in a Catholics head than sit down & have a cup of tea with them just because of the religion they were born into. Still got a lot of racist nutters in the American south who think Obama was a Communist-Nazi spy who was going to steal their guns.

Up until a few decades ago the Irish were discriminated against in Britain really badly, the Guildford Four & Birmingham Six being classic examples of that anti-Irish sentimente & what unregulated hatred & intolerance can do. And they were hated coming of the coffin ships & settling in America in the 19th century.

I just think it's sad that a people who have experienced so much discrimination & intolerance are ready on cue to dish out the same ignorant drivel to the easiest targets themselves.

The Irish in the UK were discriminated against for being Irish, not for anything else. Same with African Americans in the USA, because they were black, not because of anything they did!

Travellers are involved in crime and anti social behaviour on a vast scale, never mind the complete disregard for education, health or tax compliancy.

It's reductive ****e (posing as high minded intellectualism) of the highest order to write off the majority on this thread and in the country as a whole as simply being racists, reductive and arrogant, you help no one with that false narative.

Nitrogan

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Not could disabled folk, pensioners..

Really?

Is that as good a defence you can make for a lifestyle choice dressed up as culture?:rolleyes:

Loves_lorries

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Seems that there are a lot of people here that are really keen on splitting hairs over whether they are the right kind of intolerant or not to be considered racist.

Numerous attempts being made to justify this on here and other Traveller related threads.

If not racist, I'd like to think these same people would have the self awareness, and be proud enough in how and what they think about a whole class of people, to at the very least identify as bigots.

People like you who expect nothing from travellers but expect the rest of us to keep quiet no matter what travellers do are the real bigots.

The tyrany of low expectations.

Galwayguy35

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

I noticed this myself, not the "knacker" thing, but you see people can say things about travellers that they couldn't say about other groups of people on boards & not get warnings or bans.

That's a load of bollox, I've seen threads closed down and people given warnings and bans on traveller threads.

In fact they are probably one of the most protected group on this site.

CinemaGuy45

High minded low brow drivel what total nonsense.
A long post with zero content.:D

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

whether they live off the taxes of working people or not is irrelevant to whether they are open to criticism or not. if they are open to criticism then it's because of actions.

It's far from irrelevant actually, they can't complain about lack of opportunities when they don't even stay in school long enough to do the exams needed to get jobs and yet most of them are quite happy to sit on their holes all day and draw welfare which comes from peoples taxes.

Same with housing they don't have to put any effort into getting a house, it's handed to them and they treat the area around it like a tip until the council eventually have to clean it up for them.

Vincent Vega

Loves_lorries wrote: »

People like you who expect nothing from travellers but expect the rest of us to keep quiet no matter what travellers do are the real bigots.

The tyrany of low expectations.

What.

I'm referring specifically to people who have this always generalised, unwaveringly bigoted view of what in their mind is the 'Traveller' or 'Travellers' that they use to dismiss, disregard, ridicule and denigrate a people as a whole.

And hold the idea that all and anyone who identify as such are both somehow responsible and culpable for the actions of some others who also do.

I fully accept that there are major issues prevalent within the community, but at the same time not exclusively so. Sure, why not go after all Lithuanians for these supposed Lithuanian crime gangs running amok at the moment? Should they not also be held fully accountable for the crimes of their kind?

I simply don't believe that the hateful response from the settled community can go anyway towards resolving these problems, only worsening them.

What we may really be looking at here are a people who perhaps to some degree have had a hand in digging themselves into an inescapable hole over time, cut themselves off, and as generations pass the problems associated with that are effectively snowballing.

From working within the community I can assure you that there is an awful lot of unspoken suffering.
People carrying the burden of generations upon generations of untreated mental illness, undealt with trauma from physical and emotional abuse, both past and ongoing.
It's also mixed up with a tough sense of pride, so seeking and accepting help is far too uncommon, though progress is being made.

And then there's being made to feel like a fúcking pariah for even existing in the world outside as a 'Traveller' due to the actions of others that are far beyond your control.

Basically, what I'm getting at is to suggest that if people genuinely wish to see an overall improvement between settled and Traveller relations, it may be first of all helpful to try to see them as HUMAN BEINGS.

I would never attempt to excuse some of the cruelty, abuse and what I personally would consider sociopathic behaviour I have seen from certain members of the community.
However, I'd like to feel that these problems do originate from somewhere, can be related to and understood, worked with and over time resolved.

No amount of ridicule, hatred or vitriol is ever going to achieve that, it needs to be met with compassion.

CinemaGuy45

Vincent Vega wrote: »

What.

I'm referring specifically to people who have this always generalised, unwaveringly bigoted view of what in their mind is the 'Traveller' or 'Travellers' that they use to dismiss, disregard, ridicule and denigrate a people as a whole.

And hold the idea that all and anyone who identify as such are both somehow responsible and culpable for the actions of some others who also do.

I fully accept that there are major issues prevalent within the community, but at the same time not exclusively so. Sure, why not go after all Lithuanians for these supposed Lithuanian crime gangs running amok at the moment? Should they not also be held fully accountable for the crimes of their kind?

I simply don't believe that the hateful response from the settled community can go anyway towards resolving these problems, only worsening them.

What we may really be looking at here are a people who perhaps to some degree have had a hand in digging themselves into an inescapable hole over time, cut themselves off, and as generations pass the problems associated with that are effectively snowballing.

From working within the community I can assure you that there is an awful lot of unspoken suffering.
People carrying the burden of generations upon generations of untreated mental illness, undealt with trauma from physical and emotional abuse, both past and ongoing.
It's also mixed up with a tough sense of pride, so seeking and accepting help is far too uncommon, though progress is being made.

And then there's being made to feel like a fúcking pariah for even existing in the world outside as a 'Traveller' due to the actions of others that are far beyond your control.

Basically, what I'm getting at is to suggest that if people genuinely wish to see an overall improvement between settled and Traveller relations, it may be first of all helpful to try to see them as HUMAN BEINGS.

I would never attempt to excuse some of the cruelty, abuse and what I personally would consider sociopathic behaviour I have seen from certain members of the community.
However, I'd like to feel that these problems do originate from somewhere, can be related to and understood, worked with and over time resolved.

No amount of ridicule, hatred or vitriol is ever going to achieve that, it needs to be met with compassion.

Again I am calling rubbish on your post.

Statistics are everything I am many others have never had a positive interaction with these people.
I would never want to live near them nor have any dealings with them.
Yet people of your ilk for all your words calling the rest of us hateful will not live beside them either.

When will I start seeing halting sites in Foxrock and Donnybrook?
I will admit I do hate these people and I call them every name.
But I do not rob steal beat up old people kill animals evade every tax throw rubbish everywhere fight piss and **** all over the place.

Most importantly I practice what I preach maybe people like you will have a right to address people like me when you practice what you preach.

I won't be holding my breath however.

iamwhoiam

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Again I am calling rubbish on your post.

Statistics are everything I am many others have never had a positive interaction with these people.
I would never want to live near them nor have any dealings with them.
Yet people of your ilk for all your words calling the rest of us hateful will not live beside them either.

When will I start seeing halting sites in Foxrock and Donnybrook?
I will admit I do hate these people and I call them every name.
But I do not rob steal beat up old people kill animals evade every tax throw rubbish everywhere fight piss and **** all over the place.

Most importantly I practice what I preach maybe people like you will have a right to address people like me when you practice what you preach.

I won't be holding my breath however.

A member of my family live on the same road as a settled traveller family . They are quiet , clean , generous and friendly
Their children attend the local school and are spotless and well mannered .
Do they deserve your disdain ? Do the children deserve your hate ? Do you feel good about yourself hating them ?

On a personal level I nursed many many traveller children . The vast majority of their mothers ( i say mothers because we seldom saw their fathers ) were grateful and mannerly and appreciate a kind word and treating them as human beings

CinemaGuy45

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A member of my family live on the same road as a settled traveller family . They are quiet , clean , generous and friendly
Their children attend the local school and are spotless and well mannered .
Do they deserve your disdain ? Do the children deserve your hate ? Do you feel good about yourself hating them ?

On a personal level I nursed many many traveller children . The vast majority of their mothers ( i say mothers because we seldom saw their fathers ) were grateful and mannerly and appreciate a kind word and treating them as human beings

Good job at sidestepping my points.

Feelings don't trump facts.
Avoiding these people does not make me feel good or bad but it does make me feel must safer.

Would you like to live next to a halting site?

iamwhoiam

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Good job at sidestepping my points.

Feelings don't trump facts.
Avoiding these people does not make me feel good or bad but it does make me feel must safer.

Would you like to live next to a halting site?

I think you are the one side stepping . Then your hate for them was not confined to those who commit crime or live on halting sites . It was across the board
But I will not get into an argument on this theme because of my experience on another thread .

Vincent Vega

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Again I am calling rubbish on your post.

Statistics are everything I am many others have never had a positive interaction with these people.
I would never want to live near them nor have any dealings with them.
Yet people of your ilk for all your words calling the rest of us hateful will not live beside them either.

When will I start seeing halting sites in Foxrock and Donnybrook?
I will admit I do hate these people and I call them every name.
But I do not rob steal beat up old people kill animals evade every tax throw rubbish everywhere fight piss and **** all over the place.

Most importantly I practice what I preach maybe people like you will have a right to address people like me when you practice what you preach.

I won't be holding my breath however.

Cmon now.

You must admit that it is both fairly narrowminded and yes, bigoted, to base your judgement of an entire group of people with as many individual differences as they have similarities on your dealings with a particular few who have come to your attention for whatever reason.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that individuals are not necessarily representative of the whole?
I would never suggest it was unacceptable to hate or distrust specific Travellers who also happen to be shítty human beings. That's a pretty natural and sensible response.

Like I said in the post you quoted, and from which you most likely cherry picked the things that annoyed you to call rubbish on, disregarding the rest, I also find the behaviour you mentioned to be appalling.

I just honestly can't see why it would be reasonable to hold Travellers in their entirety accountable for those actions and not the specific individuals or specific groups involved.

CinemaGuy45

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But I will not get into an argument on this theme because of my experience on another thread .

I have formed my views based on experience too.
So we will leave it at that.

You never answered my question would you live next to a halting site?
But then we all know the answer to that.

CinemaGuy45

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Cmon now.

You must admit that it is both fairly narrowminded and yes, bigoted, to base your judgement of an entire group of people with as many individual differences as they have similarities on your dealings with a particular few who have come to your attention for whatever reason.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that individuals are not necessarily representative of the whole?
I would never suggest it was unacceptable to hate or distrust specific Travellers who also happen to be shítty human beings. That's a pretty natural and sensible response.

Like I said in the post you quoted, and from which you most likely cherry picked the things that annoyed you to call rubbish on, disregarding the rest, I also find the behaviour you mentioned to be appalling.

I just honestly can't see why it would be reasonable to hold Travellers in their entirety accountable for those actions and not the specific individuals or specific groups involved.

So a hotel not taking a wedding booking is holding all Travellers accountable for the actions of a few?
Sure there is only a 90% chance of massive damage and trouble.
What a hateful bunch those hotel owners are.:rolleyes:

I have made my point GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR.:D

iamwhoiam

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

I have formed my views based on experience too.
So we will leave it at that.

You never answered my question would you live next to a halting site?
But then we all know the answer to that.

No I wouldn't but doesn't mean I tar them all with the same brush . I also wouldn't live beside a drug dealer but I dont believe his whole wider family are also bad

CinemaGuy45

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No I wouldn't but doesn't mean I tar them all with the same brush . I also wouldn't live beside a drug dealer but I dont believe his whole wider family are also bad

I will give you credit you did answer my question.:)
Like you I do not want an argument so on this subject I will agree to disagree.

Gimme A Pound

I know there are decent travellers and would be as respectful to them on an individual basis if they were to me, but when they are so close-knit and choosing to be on the margins and so much horrendous stuff is accepted in their communities, it's difficult not to be wary of groups and I would keep well away.

Nitrogan

How long does a lifestyle choice take to become a recognised and protected culture?

There are generations of non-traveller families on welfare already, when do they get permission not to look for work as part of their tradition?

Vincent Vega

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

So a hotel not taking a wedding booking is holding all Travellers accountable for the actions of a few?
Sure there is only a 90% chance of massive damage and trouble.
What a hateful bunch those hotel owners are.:rolleyes:

I have made my point GOOD DAY TO YOU SIR.:D

Well yeah, it is really.

I see it as being pretty sad that people can't even seem to empathise with this sort of situation.

Can you not imagine how desperate and embarrassing it must feel for a person genuinely just wanting to celebrate with their loved ones and not being able to get a booking anywhere because of their surname or accent?

Seeing as you seem to like your stats, what if it was found people from a specific area of Dublin, or from a certain social class, nationality were statistically found to cause more problems than those from another.

Would it be reasonable to then refuse all bookings from that area/class/nationality based on this?

Gravelly

I hear stories on here about lovely, kind, generous, hard-working, law-abiding travellers all the time.
I've never seen one, nor has anybody I know in real life, so, like unicorns, leprechauns, and angels, I'll respect anybodies right to tell stories about them, and even believe in them, but until I actually see one with my own eyes, or even see evidence that one exists, I'll assume they are the wishful thinking of naive innocents.

Wibbs

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Seeing as you seem to like your stats, what if it was found people from a specific area of Dublin, or from a certain social class, nationality were statistically found to cause more problems than those from another.

Would it be reasonable to then refuse all bookings from that area/class/nationality based on this?

If the risks were as consistently high of something kicking off? Then quite frankly yes. It would be prudent.

Gunmonkey

Wibbs wrote: »

If the risks were as consistently high of something kicking off? Then quite frankly yes. It would be prudent.

Dont bother, his argument is a childish strawman!

No doubt we will get a response of "ugh then if those groups you refused were black then you're a racist and support Trump and probably love Hitler" and blahblahblahblah.......

Vincent Vega

Gravelly wrote: »

I hear stories on here about lovely, kind, generous, hard-working, law-abiding travellers all the time.
I've never seen one, nor has anybody I know in real life, so, like unicorns, leprechauns, and angels, I'll respect anybodies right to tell stories about them, and even believe in them, but until I actually see one with my own eyes, or even see evidence that one exists, I'll assume they are the wishful thinking of naive innocents.

You generally have to give people the time of day, set your prejudices aside and actually get to know them before you'd experience the first three.
The fourth would require them to actually receive equal opportunity employment. Even still, I have worked with a number of Travellers working hard to better their community.
And the last I've known quite a few

iamwhoiam

Gravelly wrote: »

I hear stories on here about lovely, kind, generous, hard-working, law-abiding travellers all the time.
I've never seen one, nor has anybody I know in real life, so, like unicorns, leprechauns, and angels, I'll respect anybodies right to tell stories about them, and even believe in them, but until I actually see one with my own eyes, or even see evidence that one exists, I'll assume they are the wishful thinking of naive innocents.

I would never be so rude as to presume a post of yours was a figment of your imagination . Then any post on any subject you have no experience of could be a figment of that posters imagination ?

Gravelly

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would never be so rude as to presume a post of yours was a figment of your imagination . Then any post on any subject you have no experience of could be a figment of that posters imagination ?

If I said I'd seen a rainbow-coloured unicorn, you would assume that rainbow-coloured unicorns not only exist, but are quite common, and anybody who doesn't believe in rainbow-coloured unicorns are wrong?

iamwhoiam

Gravelly wrote: »

If I said I'd seen a rainbow-coloured unicorn, you would assume that rainbow-coloured unicorns not only exist, but are quite common, and anybody who doesn't believe in rainbow-coloured unicorns are wrong?

Not even close to my point .But whatever

Gravelly

Vincent Vega wrote: »

You generally have to give people the time of day, set your prejudices aside and actually get to know them before you'd experience the first three.
The fourth would require them to actually receive equal opportunity employment. Even still, I have worked with a number of Travellers working hard to better their community.
And the last I've known quite a few

Not at all. The vast majority of people I come across, from all walks of life, every day, base their behaviour on their own moral code rather than waiting for me to get to know them before they decide whether they will act civilised, or like savages.

Gravelly

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Not even close to my point .But whatever

Read your post again, you seem to have either misunderstood it, or are afraid to address criticisms of it.

Loves_lorries

Vincent Vega wrote: »

What.

I'm referring specifically to people who have this always generalised, unwaveringly bigoted view of what in their mind is the 'Traveller' or 'Travellers' that they use to dismiss, disregard, ridicule and denigrate a people as a whole.

And hold the idea that all and anyone who identify as such are both somehow responsible and culpable for the actions of some others who also do.

I fully accept that there are major issues prevalent within the community, but at the same time not exclusively so. Sure, why not go after all Lithuanians for these supposed Lithuanian crime gangs running amok at the moment? Should they not also be held fully accountable for the crimes of their kind?

I simply don't believe that the hateful response from the settled community can go anyway towards resolving these problems, only worsening them.

What we may really be looking at here are a people who perhaps to some degree have had a hand in digging themselves into an inescapable hole over time, cut themselves off, and as generations pass the problems associated with that are effectively snowballing.

From working within the community I can assure you that there is an awful lot of unspoken suffering.
People carrying the burden of generations upon generations of untreated mental illness, undealt with trauma from physical and emotional abuse, both past and ongoing.
It's also mixed up with a tough sense of pride, so seeking and accepting help is far too uncommon, though progress is being made.

And then there's being made to feel like a fúcking pariah for even existing in the world outside as a 'Traveller' due to the actions of others that are far beyond your control.

Basically, what I'm getting at is to suggest that if people genuinely wish to see an overall improvement between settled and Traveller relations, it may be first of all helpful to try to see them as HUMAN BEINGS.

I would never attempt to excuse some of the cruelty, abuse and what I personally would consider sociopathic behaviour I have seen from certain members of the community.
However, I'd like to feel that these problems do originate from somewhere, can be related to and understood, worked with and over time resolved.

No amount of ridicule, hatred or vitriol is ever going to achieve that, it needs to be met with compassion.

Agreed about the pride thing, traveller culture is an honour culture.

Vincent Vega

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Dont bother, his argument is a childish strawman!

No doubt we will get a response of "ugh then if those groups you refused were black then you're a racist and support Trump and probably love Hitler" and blahblahblahblah.......

Nah.

And I haven't been in any way histrionic in how I've commented on this topic so far.

If a specific Traveller family had trouble with a specific venue it's more than understandable that they should be refused in the future.

Punishing others for their actions isn't.

Gravelly

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Nah.

And I haven't been in any way histrionic in how I've commented on this topic so far.

If a specific Traveller family had trouble with a specific venue it's more than understandable that they should be refused in the future.

Punishing others for their actions isn't.

Out of curiosity, do you think all the hotels and bars that refuse to take bookings for travellers weddings do so out of some weird prejudice against taking money from travellers, or out of the knowledge that the damage to their premises, and the risk to their staff is too high based on decades of experience?

CinemaGuy45

Gravelly wrote: »

Out of curiosity, do you think all the hotels and bars that refuse to take bookings for travellers weddings do so out of some weird prejudice against taking money from travellers, or out of the knowledge that the damage to their premises, and the risk to their staff is too high based on decades of experience?

Nah all those hotel owners are just nasty racist bigots that love Hitler.
I took this photo yesterday I suppose your going to infare I am lying too.

Vincent Vega

Gravelly wrote: »

Out of curiosity, do you think all the hotels and bars that refuse to take bookings for travellers weddings do so out of some weird prejudice against taking money from travellers, or out of the knowledge that the damage to their premises, and the risk to their staff is too high based on decades of experience?

Well like I said, I feel like it should come down to whether or not there is any history between the specific family and the specific establishment.

A refusal on the basis of 'look, your family was here before and you caused trouble, so no' seems more than reasonable.

I don't believe its in any way fair to assume that because the O'Briens from Donegal caused trouble that the Maughans from Kerry will necessarily do so also.
These could be entirely different types of people.

That said, I wouldn't claim that I don't at least understand the apprehension from the owners POV given the general consensus regarding Travellers.

Gravelly

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Well like I said, I feel like it should come down to whether or not there is any history between the specific family and the specific establishment.

A refusal on the basis of 'look, your family was here before and you caused trouble, so no' seems more than reasonable.

I don't believe its in any way fair to assume that because the O'Briens from Donegal caused trouble that the Maughans from Kerry will necessarily do so also.
These could be entirely different types of people.

That said, I wouldn't claim that I don't at least understand the apprehension from the owners POV given the general consensus regarding Travellers.

The thing is, all travellers of the same "clan" will attend the wedding of a member of that clan. This is one of the reasons that there is trouble at so many traveller functions - in many cases, it's the same groups of people all the time.
Unless you can extract a guarantee (which wouldn't be enforceable) that "XX family and YY family and ZZ family will not attend the wedding" then your are almost certainly going to have trouble. This is the same reason there is trouble at traveller funerals, christenings etc.

CinemaGuy45

Vincent Vega wrote: »

That said, I wouldn't claim that I don't at least understand the apprehension from the owners POV given the general consensus regarding Travellers.

Signs of progress bravo.:D
And what group do you think are to blame for this?

CinemaGuy45

Loves_lorries

Gravelly wrote: »

The thing is, all travellers of the same "clan" will attend the wedding of a member of that clan. This is one of the reasons that there is trouble at so many traveller functions - in many cases, it's the same groups of people all the time.
Unless you can extract a guarantee (which wouldn't be enforceable) that "XX family and YY family and ZZ family will not attend the wedding" then your are almost certainly going to have trouble. This is the same reason there is trouble at traveller funerals, christenings etc.

If a traveller goes to accident and emergency for as much as a dislocated finger, the entire extended family shows up within an hour.

A wedding is a gathering fifty times that and the chaos in hospital waiting rooms is pretty evident when Johnny ward gets an ingrown toenail.

Vincent Vega

Gravelly wrote: »

The thing is, all travellers of the same "clan" will attend the wedding of a member of that clan. This is one of the reasons that there is trouble at so many traveller functions - in many cases, it's the same groups of people all the time.
Unless you can extract a guarantee (which wouldn't be enforceable) that "XX family and YY family and ZZ family will not attend the wedding" then your are almost certainly going to have trouble. This is the same reason there is trouble at traveller funerals, christenings etc.

I can't disagree with much of what you're saying here really, other than trouble being a given

I still don't feel like outright across the board refusal is the answer but I do admit it's a tricky one.

Whether having some sort of intermediary to deal with and negotiate bookings and offer assurances/make agreements with venues, and build up some sort of a trust relationship could be a possible option to explore, I'm unsure.

I certainly wouldn't claim to have the answers to these issues, but I just don't think the current situation is one that either Travellers or potential venues particularly enjoy having to deal with.

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Signs of progress bravo.:D
And what group do you think are to blame for this?

I've no trouble acknowledging the difficulty in these situations.

Consensus is formed by a lot of factors unrelated to direct experience with Travellers, so I wouldn't attempt to pinpoint blame.

Eggs For Dinner

Arkham City wrote: »

Is it possible to see the names of who voted? I'd love to know who are the 23 clowns who voted yes.

Only 22 are unknown 😎

wexie

Vincent Vega wrote: »

I still don't feel like outright across the board refusal is the answer but I do admit it's a tricky one.

Whether having some sort of intermediary to deal with and negotiate bookings and offer assurances/make agreements with venues, and build up some sort of a trust relationship could be a possible option to explore, I'm unsure.

I think the problem with that would be that while there are certainly traveller's out there that would be of good will and would behave at a family event, it takes only a few to cause problems.

You say you know some travellers, so I suppose you would be happy to vouch for them right?

Would you be happy to vouch for the fact if they had their wedding at X venue there wouldn't be any trouble? At all?

Cause the intermediary wouldn't be just vouching for the ones they know, they'd have to vouch for all the guests, and they'd have to vouch for all the guests....with alcohol taken....

I don't know what the solution is either by the way. Perhaps we could get Pavee point to put their money where their mouth is and be this intermediary.

In an honest way, if the event goes off without a hitch and without trouble they get to publicize it as much as they want as an example of how we should give travellers a chance, but if it doesn't then they reimburse the venue for any costs and also publicly condemn and address whatever behaviour caused the issues?

Liamario

Sorry, just saw this. State apology, for what?! HAHAHAHAHa

CeilingFly

I was dropping into a local Aldi today.

Saw a white a4 strewn across the pedestrian crossing beside the entrance "parked"

Said to the wife - has to be a Traveller only such scum would park without a care to the obstruction they'd cause other. She laughed and said I just had an issue with them and it was probably someone collecting someone.

I had a €5 bet with her.

We waited a few minutes.

I won my bet.