Antisocial Beahviour from a tenant: how best to manage it?

marcmc5

Just something I wanted advice on. I currently have a tenant in a rental property I have in a rent pressure zone. She moved into the property in 2011 with her two small children and is in receipt of rent allowance for the house.

There have been issues with this lady in the past with regards late rent etc and I have always found her to be quite confrontational. In fairness though I believed her to be a good tenant due to the fact that she looked after the property well so I suppose to my detriment i did take my eye of the ball and overlooked these small matters.

In the past few days I have had one of the neighbours contact me. It seems for quite some time the tenant has been engaging in antisocial behaviour. They and a number of tenants have had to make calls over a long period of time to the gardai with regard to late night parties, excessive noise/music to the early hours and dumping cigarette butts/joint butts etc in other neighbours gardens.

The man who contacted me mentioned that a partner who the tenant was involved with previously has moved back into the house a year ago and the issues have escalated since then. They believe this man to be dangerous and are afraid to confront him or the tenant. I believe the partner has slashed tyres of other residents cars, intimidated people and i believe one family have left the estate due to this disruption.

It has been my intention for some time to sell the property but this is complicated by the fact that the house is in a pyrite affected area. I have just begun the process of having the property tested but this process can be lengthy. I cant put the house on the market till I have a green cert and if the house tests positive for pyrite I have to join a lengthy waiting list to have repairs carried out. Even in the event of the house not having pyrite, because she has been resident in the house for more than 6/7 years I have to give her a very lengthy notice of termination of the tenancy (in excess of 6 mths)

I spoke to the PRTB about the best way to manage the issues around antisocial behaviour. They suggested I approach her to get her side of the story (which I intend to do even though I'm reluctant due to her and her partners volatile natures). They have breach of tenancy obligations letter that I can issue to her. Basically it gives her time to change her ways. When i asked them how much time I should give her they were very non committal and said that was for me to decide. If she does breach her obligations within the set time frame i can then terminate the tenancy in 28 days. If she breaches her obligations after the time frame I have to issue another breach letter and begin the process again giving her more time. I'm unsure what is an appropriate time frame for correcting matters around antisocial behaviour. Ideally Id like to be able to say if this sort of thing happens again your out on your ear but it appears I cant.

Sorry to be long winded but essentially I really want rid of this tenant as quickly as possible and at the same time assure I'm compliant with law (Shes always quoting her rights). Id also like to ensure the safety of myself my family and her neighbours. I'm in no doubt her and her partner are dangerous people. I really don't know if its best to try and have her removed for breaching the tenancy or go down the lengthy route of pyrite testing and selling the property which could mean I'm stuck with her for a while.

Id really appreciate advice from anyone in the know

Thanks

Wabbit Ears

Seems to me youve answered your own question. Serve the breach of tenancy obligations letter and inform her of the timelines if things dont improve. Have a clear list of whats to improve similar to what a buisness would have with a PIP (personal improvment plan). What needs improving should be listed, A time frame given to improve and a metric for sucess in improvement

Example: Not throwing cigarette butts in neighbours Garden: 1 week to comply: Metric is no complaints about this for the next 2 months.

If they dont then serve notice of eviction. Do everything by the book while also testing for pyrite as a Plan B option.

Ray Palmer

If her partner moved in and you were not aware and have been signing her rent allowance documents somebody has been doing something wrong. Either he was still on the RA when not living there or isn't declaring they are living together.
Check what you have been signing as you may very may have helped welfare fraud or doing it now.
If they threatened any of the neighbours you only have to give 7 days notice.

Caranica

Talk to the local Gardai, they might be able to give you some more insight and back up.

spaceHopper

Going back two years but where there was a safety issue you can give a tenant 7 days’ notice to vacate for antisocial there was a sample letter on the RTB’s website.
I’d approach the local community Garda, explain to them that you own the house, the neighbours contacted you and can they fill you in.
Ask the neighbours if they kept a diary of what happened, if they haven’t get them to start one.
Ask them to open a third party complaint against you with the RTB, tell them you won’t take it personally. See if you can use fast track phone mediation with RTB.
Serve notice to vacate due to antisocial behaviour give them 7 days expect them to drag their heels but hopefully they go.
You could offer an inducement to move without a fuss
If you put the house on the market, there is a good chance the council will buy it to house them or somebody like them. Also their children are established in the area so they will probably stay around.
If you can’t serve them notice to vacate lay down the law, boyfriend moves out and zero parties not even one at Christmas or kids birthday.

marcmc5

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If her partner moved in and you were not aware and have been signing her rent allowance documents somebody has been doing something wrong. Either he was still on the RA when not living there or isn't declaring they are living together.
Check what you have been signing as you may very may have helped welfare fraud or doing it now.
If they threatened any of the neighbours you only have to give 7 days notice.

Hi
I wasnt aware she had moved a partner into the property and have not been signing any documentation for her allowance in the last year as its not up for review just yet. I can make the welfare aware that i suspect she has a partner living there (and i was only made aware of this yesterday). I dont see how I could be seen to be assisting fraud.

marcmc5

Caranica wrote: »

Talk to the local Gardai, they might be able to give you some more insight and back up.

I have contacted the local Gardai this morning and unfortunately they would not give me any information stating that it was a confidentiality issue. I asked them to clarify had they been out to the house because at this point I only have one or two neighbours word for it. I believe them totally but i need to be certain in case she denies it. Unfortunately the guard wont verify if they were out or not.

marcmc5

spaceHopper wrote: »

Going back two years but where there was a safety issue you can give a tenant 7 days’ notice to vacate for antisocial there was a sample letter on the RTB’s website.
I’d approach the local community Garda, explain to them that you own the house, the neighbours contacted you and can they fill you in.
Ask the neighbours if they kept a diary of what happened, if they haven’t get them to start one.
Ask them to open a third party complaint against you with the RTB, tell them you won’t take it personally. See if you can use fast track phone mediation with RTB.
Serve notice to vacate due to antisocial behaviour give them 7 days expect them to drag their heels but hopefully they go.
You could offer an inducement to move without a fuss
If you put the house on the market, there is a good chance the council will buy it to house them or somebody like them. Also their children are established in the area so they will probably stay around.
If you can’t serve them notice to vacate lay down the law, boyfriend moves out and zero parties not even one at Christmas or kids birthday.

Thanks for your input. I have asked the neighbour to record all incidents of disruption and report back to me. Ive told him Ill keep his name out of it as the poor man is concerned for the safety of his family.
I hadnt thought about asking them to raise a third party complaint about me to the PRTB. ill certainly look into that
Thank you

marcmc5

marcmc5 wrote: »

I have contacted the local Gardai this morning and unfortunately they would not give me any information stating that it was a confidentiality issue. I asked them to clarify had they been out to the house because at this point I only have one or two neighbours word for it. I believe them totally but i need to be certain in case she denies it. Unfortunately the guard wont verify if they were out or not.

Gardai won't tell you anything over the phone. Calls are recorded and they'd be hung out to dry.

Call down to the station in person, or schedule an appointment to meet with the community Garda. If they ask what it's about, say it's about issues at X address, but don't say who you are in relation to it. In person, you''ll generally find Gardai are much more helpful. If they have been out to the house repeatedly, they'll want the tenants out just as much as you will, I'm sure.


As you said yourself already, don't mention the neighbour that rang you. Don't mention anything that could land them in it (ie; don't mention throwing cigarette butts into neighbouring gardens, as they'll know who made that complaint).

If I were you, I'd probably call to the tenants to hear their side of the story, and explain that 'a few residents' have gotten in touch. If she gets angry, volatile, etc. issue 7 days and in 7 days arrange with Gardai to perhaps come along and assist you?

Naturally, bring someone with you incase they get aggressive (they might get angry, but I'm extremely doubtful they'd actually physically touch you).

My biggest concern here, would be if they are scummers, they may well damage the house. And that is money that you'll never see back (hopefully you owe them a hefty deposit back, and to try to keep that they'll not harm the house).


You're unlikely to run into hassle with them coming after you, or your family, but I'd still be cautious of it all the same.


'Firm but fair' needs to be the approach here, with an emphasis on firm. This property belongs to you, not them. Stand your ground. Oftentimes scummers will back down a bit once they see you're not running from them.


In the off chance the tenants are from a certain ethnic minority, pass your number along to a few of the houses/residents around the house and get them to ring you in the off-chance anything happens. I'm not going to say this is true; but I have heard of a certain group of people getting kicked out of houses, but stripping the houses of everything before going. I mean everything. Smashing walls and ceilings to get to the copper pipes, taking doors, radiators etc. so it'd be good to have a few eyes and ears on the place that can alert you if anything were to happen.


Another reason I'd never be a landlord.

Ray Palmer

marcmc5 wrote: »

Hi
I wasnt aware she had moved a partner into the property and have not been signing any documentation for her allowance in the last year as its not up for review just yet. I can make the welfare aware that i suspect she has a partner living there (and i was only made aware of this yesterday). I dont see how I could be seen to be assisting fraud.

You seem to have said he was living there before so when you thought he had moved out did the forms say he was there or not? Once you find out the situation has changed from what you signed you should inform the welfare. However if you are trying to get them out you may want to hold on that. You can be pretty sure she is claiming lone parents

power pants

So we will all expect to see this person posting live feeds from Facebook about being a blameless victim against the big bad landlord when the day of eviction occurs