How can Brick & Mortar shops compete with Online Shopping?

Andy From Sligo

McGaggs wrote: »

Websites on the EU are already supposed to add the vat rate of whatever country they deliver to. You'll notice the price changes on Amazon when you change between your real address and your parcel motel address.

didnt realise that - I thought you paid the appropriat VAT rate from the country you are ordering from .

If you popped over the border to ARGOS or Currys store in NI and you will pay 20% - cross the border in ROI and you will pay the extra 3% - I thought thats how it worked online too?

so when you order online from say amazon and they charge you the correct 23% ... does that 23% make its way to the Irish government?

Andy From Sligo

enricoh wrote: »

I think any business with a turnover of less than say 100k shouldn't have to pay rates.
I was in Roscommon and Leitrim for a few days recently and some of the towns we're ghost towns. The council should be giving the shop owners a grant instead of taking rates.
On the outskirts of one of the towns here was a heap of exercise equipment installed at huge expense no doubt in a park where two alcos were the only ones using it as a bench! Great use of the rates!

i like your way of thinking!

Andy From Sligo

Pod123 wrote: »

Sometimes it’s hard to beat on line shopping if both are out at work.

Priced a ladder in the local hard ware store and then priced same on line. Bought on line cheaper and delivered to door for less. Local hardware store was dearer and I would have to collect.

I think it was better when the big retail outlets were closed on Sunday it gave the smaller shops a chance and people still survived.

Perhaps it’s the way forward and the youth like it know the wife and daughter do.

i dont particuarly think that a good idea them shutting on sunday -be a step backwards, and some of these places that open up on Sundays have more customers than in the weekdays. - Plus if they closed sundays , would people use the smaller local shops .. or just order the stuff they need online still?

Andy From Sligo

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They're the ones that give Andy From Sligo his free coffee refills for no reason

where ? - I'd like to find them now these days! - you'd be lucky!

Steve F

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Why are shops open when most people are working?

I could never figure that out. I've worked in many places and bar the lunchtime rush, you don't see the same type of shopper on the weekdays that you see at the weekend.

Even if shops opened 11 to 7, at least people would have a chance to pick something up after work, instead of thinking "oh its Monday, I'll have to wait till Thursday to buy that thing when the shop is open late, but if I buy online I'll have it by Wednesday... "

There's a place nearby that sells coal cheap. They're open 9-5 Monday to Friday.

I'd love to but coal from them, but I'd have to take time off work to pick it up

Shift work?? 9-5 is not as common as it was....

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

The J Stands for Jay

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

didnt realise that - I thought you paid the appropriat VAT rate from the country you are ordering from .

If you popped over the border to ARGOS or Currys store in NI and you will pay 20% - cross the border in ROI and you will pay the extra 3% - I thought thats how it worked online too?

so when you order online from say amazon and they charge you the correct 23% ... does that 23% make its way to the Irish government?

EU regulations. The point of sale determines the vat. Online, the point of sale is based on the location of the buyer. Irish delivery address on a website in the EU will mean Irish VAT rate, paid to Irish government.

Andy From Sligo

McGaggs wrote: »

EU regulations. The point of sale determines the vat. Online, the point of sale is based on the location of the buyer. Irish delivery address on a website in the EU will mean Irish VAT rate, paid to Irish government.

ah right - i think i get it ... now onto the subject of something like Parcel Motel and the like (which is what I use quite regularly) - you are giving a Northern ireland address .. and I am pretty sure I only pay 20% when I order stuff off ebay and amazon and other online sites with my supplied NI PM address - the irish government must be missing out in that way?

EDIT: just to let peeps know I dont use PM just because I dont want to support the Irish government with VAT rates .. its mainly because a lot of companies still dont deliver to a ROI address but if they do they charge astronomical price for delivery/shipping

Mountainsandh

CeilingFly wrote: »

What the OP and many others are forgetting is that people LIKE shopping.

Normal stores will never go away because they can offer an experience an online store can never offer.

If you exclude anything travel related, online shopping represents about 7-8% of the retail market. In the UK which is the world leader in online shopping (yep bigger than USA) it is about 12%.

It is estimated that the UK will rise to 16-18% in the next few years and Ireland will be at about 12%.


In the eighties, catalogue shopping accounted for close to 8% of retail sales in the UK, so whilst online is higher, its not the game changer people think it is.

Retail does need to change, but that's a natural evolution. Have a look at Lifestyle Sports in Cork (their new store), that simply cannot be replicated online.

So whilst radio did not kill newspapers and TV did not kill radio, online will not kill retail stores.

Many will need to adapt, but they will.

Ah. Here it is, the "experience" word

I don't think customers care as much for the experience as retailers (or specialized designers, perhaps ?) like to think.

You do have a point though, some people enjoy the shopping experience, and it will remain to an extent. But I think the balance will tilt further than what you think.

For youngsters and older people I think there is this element of social outing that they value, for working generations it's just a lot of time wasted.

The J Stands for Jay

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

ah right - i think i get it ... now onto the subject of something like Parcel Motel and the like (which is what I use quite regularly) - you are giving a Northern ireland address .. and I am pretty sure I only pay 20% when I order stuff off ebay and amazon and other online sites with my supplied NI PM address - the irish government must be missing out in that way?

EDIT: just to let peeps know I dont use PM just because I dont want to support the Irish government with VAT rates .. its mainly because a lot of companies still dont deliver to a ROI address but if they do they charge astronomical price for delivery/shipping

Yeah, it's the delivery address that determines where the VAT goes. PM deliveries from Amazon go to fund Teresa May's 'technological border' and other such shenanigans.

Nitrogan

I've done a load of online shopping recently but I went to bricks and mortar shops where possible to see the goods first.

I'm sure that's not a unique pattern. Traditional shops will maybe have more of a future as show rooms for online outlets.

Andy From Sligo

McGaggs wrote: »

Yeah, it's the delivery address that determines where the VAT goes. PM deliveries from Amazon go to fund Teresa May's 'technological border' and other such shenanigans.

ah well sure they helped bail us out the least we can give em back is a bittin' of VAT

Andy From Sligo

what about the cheek of the "i go to my local shop, pick it up , press the buttons, have a little play of it - take a note of the model number ..... and then go home an order it online" brigade LOL - thats nasty that is

Nitrogan

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

what about the cheek of the "i go to my local shop, pick it up , press the buttons, have a little play of it - take a note of the model number ..... and then go home an order it online" brigade LOL - thats nasty that is

Why?

Greyfox

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

..it was 5 to 6 and we were being rude and ushering the customers out our deparment manager would be right down on us like a ton of bricks ...was bloody grateful for the job and valued customers because they were paying our wages

There's nothing rude about telling customers the store it about to close, staff may need to catch a bus right after closing time. your boss was paying your wages not customers and most bosses don't appreciate staff that work after there finish time. Yes sometimes staff are poor at there job but many times it's the customer who is unreasonable. In any case buying online is a far more pleasant experience as its so simple these days and you've more rights when you buy online

Andy From Sligo

Nitrogan wrote: »

Why?

um .. because I should think that the bricks & mortar shops would be hoping you would be buying it from them seeing as they have built the store , provided lighting and heating and letting you touch and play with their merchandise ... but not buy it from them and go home and buy off another trader / online ... but then again on the other side of the coin I suppose people could still pick it up and check it out and then go a few doors down, find it cheaper and buy it from another shop ... thats the other side to it . - good job it is not a "if you touch it - you buy it!" policy

Nitrogan

One of the draw backs to online shopping, from a retailers perspective is the lack of POS impulse buys. People search for what they want and buy only that. If an online store ties in with a bricks and mortar shop there is an opportunity to display the product with accessories and push them as part of store visit discount for buying online later.

Greyfox

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

...but not buy it from them and go home and buy off another trader / online ...

You should buy it in the store if there's only a very small difference but if there's a significant difference in price surely only a very silly person would buy it in the store.

Andy From Sligo

Greyfox wrote: »

....staff may need to catch a bus right after closing time.

not the customer's issue / problem - customers should not have to even entertain the workings of a staff's working day and whether they can get a bus home or not - shop staff have got to be more flexible .. I agree dot take the pee if your a customer, dont doodle around after closing time without no intention of buying something thats bad. genuine customers though could want to by an item and you might find you have taken more money from that 1 customer at 5.57pm than you have all day!! - its possible .

The customers are not the bloody enemy .. and it is true if they dont shop there, the staff eventually dont get paid .. who's business give the boss the money to pay the staff???

If shop staff want a job/regime where they can leave on the dot of 5pm/6pm to get that bus home dont work in a shop job ... work in an office or factory or something

Andy From Sligo

Greyfox wrote: »

You should buy it in the store if there's only a very small difference but if there's a significant difference in price surely only a very silly person would buy it in the store.

what is a "significant difference" ? - I have known people go to another shop to save 50c/€1 - its like in the old days I used to know people who drove up to belleek and enniskillen to save a few bob on items .. or even fuel ... not realising how much they spent on petrol and wear and tear on the car to get there

Mountainsandh

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

what is a "significant difference" ? - I have known people go to another shop to save 50c/€1 - its like in the old days I used to know people who drove up to belleek and enniskillen to save a few bob on items .. or even fuel ... not realising how much they spent on petrol and wear and tear on the car to get there

True.
But then again, sometimes the difference is really in you face obvious.

In the small town I would shop in, I was looking at Regatta jackets, "only 70 euros".

I can get them on Ebay for 55 euros shipping included, and that's a lightning strike fast search I did just for a quick example there. 15 euros difference is enough for me to choose online.

Andy From Sligo

Nitrogan wrote: »

One of the draw backs to online shopping, from a retailers perspective is the lack of POS impulse buys. People search for what they want and buy only that. If an online store ties in with a bricks and mortar shop there is an opportunity to display the product with accessories and push them as part of store visit discount for buying online later.

a good online store will do exactly the same ... pop up a few ads of some really special offers in your face with a good price and with a load of people it could end up as a impulse buy from that site

Andy From Sligo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

True.
But then again, sometimes the difference is really in you face obvious.

In the small town I would shop in, I was looking at Regatta jackets, "only 70 euros".

I can get them on Ebay for 55 euros shipping included, and that's a lightning strike fast search I did just for a quick example there. 15 euros difference is enough for me to choose online.

oh yes indeed .. why wouldnt ye - as long as you could wait for the delivery and dont need it straight away.

in the future (when drones are the norm) I can see you ordering something online and simply not waiting for days for your delivery to come but by end of that same day to your doorstep (even in Ireland )

Greyfox

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

not the customer's issue / problem..shop staff have got to be more flexible ..

If shop staff want a job/regime where they can leave on the dot of 5pm/6pm to get that bus home dont work in a shop job ... work in an office or factory or something

Well the customer is putting the staff member in a position where there been forced to work for free so the staff member is entitled to rush the customer without been rude. Why should staff be more flexible when they are not gaining anything from staying back? They should stay the extra 10 mins if they will get the time back another day but shop managers don't allow for this. They shouldnt need to get another job as nobody should be expected to work after there finish time.

Greyfox

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

what is a "significant difference" ? - I have known people go to another shop to save 50c/€1 - its like in the old days I used to know people who drove up to belleek and enniskillen to save a few bob on items .. or even fuel ... not realising how much they spent on petrol and wear and tear on the car to get there

Yep, I've seen this happen too, people can be very tight with there money. I'd only go online for a min €5 difference. I think the days of loyalty to a store are long gone, price is all customers care about.

Andy From Sligo

Greyfox wrote: »

Well the customer is putting the staff member in a position where there been forced to work for free so the staff member is entitled to rush the customer without been rude. Why should staff be more flexible when they are not gaining anything from staying back? They should stay the extra 10 mins if they will get the time back another day but shop managers don't allow for this. They shouldnt need to get another job as nobody should be expected to work after there finish time.

the flexibility in it is that it wouldnt be every night this happens (well it didnt with me) most of the time the customer will know its time to make their way to the till and then the odd time we would the odd customer that was a few minutes passed 6 who were there . i dontb think it ever entered my head that "I was working for free" but then again on the whole I pretty much well liked my job and the pay was OK , not brilliant but not min wage either - the only ones that really really wanted to get away on time and moaned really was these 2 old blokes who wanted to get home for their tea, not the issue of working for free - and they were near to pensionable age just working out there last couple of years and although knowlageble and trained up the younger staff just were stuck in their old ways I think

I used to be offered 1 hour lunch breaks as well thats what I was entitled to - but even then a lot of the time I ate my packed lunch and if I were bored I would just go back down and work on the counter - god i make it sound like I was the model member of staff ... but no, that was just what I was like . as I say most of the time i liked my job on the whole (course there were days I didnt we all go through that) but some of the shop workers of today just dont look like they want to be there most of the time and look like they would rather work somewhere else a lot of the time .... well thats fine they know where the door is - leaves a vacant space for someone who really would love to work in a shop! ....

Mountainsandh

Greyfox wrote: »

. They shouldnt need to get another job as nobody should be expected to work after there finish time.

Not sure about that. Plenty of jobs where you're expected to be there earlier than your start time, and some occasional bit after your finish time.

_Brian

Footfall is one thing. Rural towns don’t have the footfall any more, larger towns and cities have a variety of shops because they have the numbers passing to sustain the overheads.

Cost. The goods in the shops have passed through so many hands each getting a small cut of tue final price, I can go online and cut out at least half the steps along the way and so get goods so much cheaper. Shops are facing serious overheads which add cost to the bottom line.

Andy From Sligo

_Brian wrote: »

Footfall is one thing. Rural towns don’t have the footfall any more, larger towns and cities have a variety of shops because they have the numbers passing to sustain the overheads....

and then I think to myself rural towns havent got the footfall and the population ... because they havent got the larger stores and good shopping centres

its like a chicken and egg situation ....

Do you not build big stores and shopping centres because you havent got the footfall or population ... or do you take a huge gamble and build the shops and stores and hope that the footfall improves and more people move into the area cause the shops are there?

_Brian

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

and then I think to myself rural towns havent got the footfall and the population ... because they havent got the larger stores and good shopping centres

its like a chicken and egg situation ....

Do you not build big stores and shopping centres because you havent got the footfall or population ... or do you take a huge gamble and build the shops and stores and hope that the footfall improves and more people move into the area cause the shops are there?

The model of the bustling rural town is dead. There isn’t the employed population locally any more, we’re following the model Europe did and our population is becoming urbanised and condensed areound cities.