Where are the Nutters?

Nitrogan

Where are our Brexiters and Trumpists?

I don’t agree with Sinn Fein, People Before Profit and the Anti-something somethings but I’m glad they’re out in the open. They can express their grievances publicly and can be challenged. They cause a lot of disruption but it’s how a democracy should work.

I worry there are people with extreme views at the other end of the spectrum we can’t hear and challenge openly.

I feel right wing on this forum though in some other countries my views would be considered socialist. I know there are a lot of people out there in our society who are intolerant on issues like abortion, LGBT rights, immigration, workers rights and health care which I support, so if I’m right wing here where are the nutters?

..in AH on boards probably but could Steve Bannon organise them into political force?

Do we think we’re immune to the sickness that has hit our two closest partners?

MadYaker

There is an irexit party as far as I know but I don't think it's really caught on here. That sort of toxic nationalism that Trump and Brexit capitalised on doesn't really exist here thankfully.

retalivity

Those freeman lunatics

dxhound2005

I also support health care.

Hotblack Desiato

Renua

Nitrogan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I also support health care.

It's an unsustainable ponzi scheme at current levels but that's another discussion.

Nitrogan

Nitrogan wrote: »

Where are our Brexiters and Trumpists?

I don’t agree with Sinn Fein, People Before Profit and the Anti-something somethings but I’m glad they’re out in the open. They can express their grievances publicly and can be challenged. They cause a lot of disruption but it’s how a democracy should work.

I worry there are people with extreme views at the other end of the spectrum we can’t hear and challenge openly.

I feel right wing on this forum though in some other countries my views would be considered socialist. I know there are a lot of people out there in our society who are intolerant on issues like abortion, LGBT rights, immigration, workers rights and health care which I support, so if I’m right wing here where are the nutters?

..in AH on boards probably but could Steve Bannon organise them into political force?

Do we think we’re immune to the sickness that has hit our two closest partners?

They're out canvassing for Gemma.

20Cent

The Iona institute.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Gemma O'Doherty is one

JohnnyFlash

Direct Democracy Ireland, UnitedPeople, Gemma O’Doherty supporters, freeman of the land lunatics, flouride campaigners, dissident republican groups, anarchist groups, loony lefties. . They are all active and spend their days giving out on Facebook and The Journal.ie. Entertaining to observe the madness.

Chris_Heilong

I think the UK are doing the right thing with Brexit, they were never really all about the EU thing anyway and remember how they were all so proud an empire not too long ago, so there is a bit of arrogance involved also but they messed up working on a deal however, they want total self rule and control over many issues like immigration. They never even went with the Euro currency.

Ireland on the other hand works well in the EU for the moment but I really dont like when Ireland votes on something regardless of if it is right or wrong the EU can tell us they dont like our vote and to do it again, things like this and the fact the non-elected EU officials can create laws which effect us in our country seems very wrong.

With Trump the thing that gets to me is the absolute hysteria involved when talking about him IMO we need more balance, more than half the bad things I hear about him are not even true or at least half truths and I dont even like him but please at least base your criticism on fact and not feelings or propaganda you heard on the democrats supporter US based news outlets who push these fake narratives. You have to look at the good and the bad.

The nutters seem to be the people shouting for open borders and pushing for forced diversity in some cases even pushing for violence under the guise of righteousness as far as I can see.

The Crowman

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I think the UK are doing the right thing with Brexit, they were never really all about the EU thing anyway and remember how they were all so proud an empire not too long ago, so there is a bit of arrogance involved also but they messed up working on a deal however, they want total self rule and control over many issues like immigration. They never even went with the Euro currency.

Ireland on the other hand works well in the EU for the moment but I really dont like when Ireland votes on something regardless of if it is right or wrong the EU can tell us they dont like our vote and to do it again, things like this and the fact the non-elected EU officials can create laws which effect us in our country seems very wrong.

With Trump the thing that gets to me is the absolute hysteria involved when talking about him IMO we need more balance, more than half the bad things I hear about him are not even true or at least half truths and I dont even like him but please at least base your criticism on fact and not feelings or propaganda you heard on the democrats supporter US based news outlets who push these fake narratives. You have to look at the good and the bad.

The nutters seem to be the people shouting for open borders and pushing for forced diversity in some cases even pushing for violence under the guise of righteousness as far as I can see.

Could you enlighten us as to what "fake narratives" about Trump are being pushed?

McMurphy

The Crowman wrote: »

Could you enlighten us as to what "fake narratives" about Trump are being pushed?

That's his real hair.:cool:

MadYaker

The Crowman wrote: »

Could you enlighten us as to what "fake narratives" about Trump are being pushed?

He has great respect for women and definitely didn't ask the Russians for help to win the election.

Hector Bellend

Nitrogan wrote: »

Where are our Brexiters and Trumpists?

I don’t agree with Sinn Fein, People Before Profit and the Anti-something somethings but I’m glad they’re out in the open. They can express their grievances publicly and can be challenged. They cause a lot of disruption but it’s how a democracy should work.

I worry there are people with extreme views at the other end of the spectrum we can’t hear and challenge openly.

I feel right wing on this forum though in some other countries my views would be considered socialist. I know there are a lot of people out there in our society who are intolerant on issues like abortion, LGBT rights, immigration, workers rights and health care which I support, so if I’m right wing here where are the nutters?

..in AH on boards probably but could Steve Bannon organise them into political force?

Do we think we’re immune to the sickness that has hit our two closest partners?

Why are people who hold opposing political views to you called nutters?

People are not necessarily intolerant if they disagree with you as long as they have a valid reason for voting the way they do? And even of they dont, why do they have to justify themselves to you?

Chris_Heilong

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

the fact the non-elected EU officials can create laws which effect us in our country seems very wrong.
.

Like what exactly?

Chris_Heilong

I am not here to defend Trump as I said I am not his supporter and just have an issue with the hysteria, so I will keep this brief but some of the things people are saying are usually, two examples I can think of are:

He is a racist. Dont just say it, prove it.

He calls immigrants 'animals' Remember this was a thing for a while and CNN, Sky and NBC were reporting Trump calling immigrants animals,
https://news.sky.com/video/square-video-trump-animals-001mp4-11375404
But when you watch the full clip online he clearly said MS-13 gang members were Animals and not all immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Heilong View Post
the fact the non-elected EU officials can create laws which effect us in our country seems very wrong.
.
Like what exactly?

Any EU regulation from how curved a Banana is to the GDPR. These are all things which effect us, introduced by people we did not vote for.

Nitrogan

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Why are people who hold opposing political views to you called nutters?

People are not necessarily intolerant if they disagree with you as long as they have a valid reason for voting the way they do? And even of they dont, why do they have to justify themselves to you?

I'm intolerant of nutters. They're welcome to argue their case with me.

Gravelly

Perhaps the "nutters" are those who assign mental illness to anyone who doesn't agree with their political views?

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

Perhaps the "nutters" are those who assign mental illness to anyone who doesn't agree with their political views?

They might be mentally ill, but if so they should seek professional help and get a better diagnosis than a guy on the internet who points out flaws in their logic.

In a socially responsible society do we have an obligation to report people like that to the appropriate services?

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

They might be mentally ill, but if so they should seek professional help and get a better diagnosis than a guy on the internet who points out flaws in their logic.

In a socially responsible society do we have an obligation to report people like that to the appropriate services?

Or perhaps we should realise that maybe the wisdom and intelligence we assign to ourselves, thinking that our opinion is the only correct one, is possibly wrong?

Capt'n Midnight

In the UK 59% of MP's have safe seats, barring a landslide shift in support they are guaranteed of being re-elected if they go through the motions.

We have PR and multi seat constituencies. So you can actually vote for the person you'd want rather than be forced to vote for whoever is most likely to win against the candidate you hate. This means that when Nutters stand for election here their first preference vote can't be explained away by the flaws of First Past The Post.

Our governments, like most on the continent, are by consensus rather than the UK/US flip flop system. Historically independents get into government on a regular basis so Nutters could get their say. On the other hand there are more ways to form a govt so you don't need to include the total Nutters.

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

Or perhaps we should realise that maybe the wisdom and intelligence we assign to ourselves, thinking that our opinion is the only correct one, is possibly wrong?

Do what ever you feel like then?

I don't like that idea.

Donald Trump

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I am not here to defend Trump as I said I am not his supporter and just have an issue with the hysteria, so I will keep this brief but some of the things people are saying are usually, two examples I can think of are:

He is a racist. Dont just say it, prove it.

He calls immigrants 'animals' Remember this was a thing for a while and CNN, Sky and NBC were reporting Trump calling immigrants animals,
https://news.sky.com/video/square-video-trump-animals-001mp4-11375404
But when you watch the full clip online he clearly said MS-13 gang members were Animals and not all immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Heilong View Post
the fact the non-elected EU officials can create laws which effect us in our country seems very wrong.
.
Like what exactly?

Any EU regulation from how curved a Banana is to the GDPR. These are all things which effect us, introduced by people we did not vote for.

Is that you Mr. Kurd?

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

Do what ever you feel like then?

I don't like that idea.

You don't like the idea of doing what you feel like?

And you think those with different opinions to you are nutters.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Capt'n Midnight

Alternative answer.

Look at the Presidential election. Migeldy is unlikely to loose.

Sinn Fein are using this election as practice and publicity. Posters up everywhere already.
They may even get election expenses back.


As for the rest of them , they don't even have those excuses ...

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

You don't like the idea of doing what you feel like?

And you think those with different opinions to you are nutters.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Yes

People who do what they like without consideration for others usually end in prison thankfully.

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

Yes

People who do what they like without consideration for others usually end in prison thankfully.

They jail people for being inconsiderate now? :eek:

(Not that you post has anything whatsoever to do with the post you responded to! You posts seem to be in response to the voices in your head rather than what is posted).

Nitrogan

We're a democracy so if you don't like the rules you can try to change them.

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

They jail people for being inconsiderate now? :eek:

I'd be in trouble if that were true.

What's your issue?

Just raging against the machine or have a gripe with modern lefty society?

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Direct Democracy Ireland, UnitedPeople, Gemma O’Doherty supporters, freeman of the land lunatics, flouride campaigners, dissident republican groups, anarchist groups, loony lefties. . They are all active and spend their days giving out on Facebook and The Journal.ie. Entertaining to observe the madness.

Nearly all on the left. There’s no public support for far right wing groups. Yet boards is fairly right wing.

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

I'd be in trouble if that were true.

What's your issue?

Just raging against the machine or have a gripe with modern lefty society?

What gives you the idea I'm either? Perhaps I simply think that it isn't good for society if those who question the popular view are dismissed as nutters?

Gravelly

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Nearly all on the left. There’s no public support for far right wing groups. Yet boards is fairly right wing.

Note the difference you cite yourself.

There is a common tactic by the left to label anyone who isn't completely in line with whatever this week's viewpoint is as "far right" when in fact, they are usually centrist, or centre-right.

Note the common tactic (very noticeable here on boards) of accusing anyone with any concerns whatsoever about mass immigration etc as being nazis, bigots etc. etc. etc.

looksee

Ah, an AH thread tossing around wild generalisations on all sides. I'll leave ye to it.

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

What gives you the idea I'm either? Perhaps I simply think that it isn't good for society if those who question the popular view are dismissed as nutters?

Depends what questions they put though doesn't it?

Give us an example of something.

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

Depends what questions they put though doesn't it?

Give us an example of something.

Why should I, you are the one that started a thread labelling anyone who doesn't have the same political views as you as nutters. Perhaps you should expand on why, in a democracy, anybody who doesn't agree with you is mentally ill.

Dick Swiveller

Basically, anyone who doesn't follow fashionable opinion is consider (a) a nutter or (b) an extremist. Most political parties are stuffed full of people who hold fashionable opinions, so it's very hard for an independent minded person to ever get a chance of being elected - save on the odd occasion.

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

Why should I, you are the one that started a thread labelling anyone who doesn't have the same political views as you as nutters. Perhaps you should expand on why, in a democracy, anybody who doesn't agree with you is mentally ill.

'Romanians are welfare scroungers who cost us money'.

I've heard that in many forms, and I'd describe anyone who said it as a nutter.

Maybe not mentally ill, perhaps just a bad person or not very smart.

So yes then.

jjpep

I think there are three main reason's why extreme views in politics haven't taken hold here:

1. Standard of education. We have a pretty decent education system which covers a lot of different subjects. Most people who go through our education system have at least some knowledge of history and critical thinking.

2. History of immigration. Many Irish people have lived in other countries and have experienced different cultures first hand.

3. The north. The majority of people in the country lived through the troubles and while only few of us ever were directly affected, we've seen up close the human cost of political extremism.

Loves_lorries

20Cent wrote: »

The Iona institute.

Iona are a Catholic activist outfit, there is no evidence they are right wing on economic matters.

dxhound2005

looksee wrote: »

Ah, an AH thread tossing around wild generalisations on all sides. I'll leave ye to it.

The Irish are very good at that.

Hector Bellend

Nitrogan wrote: »

I'm intolerant of nutters. They're welcome to argue their case with me.

If youre intolerant of them why would you want to argue with them?

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

'Romanians are welfare scroungers who cost us money'.

I've heard that in many forms, and I'd describe anyone who said it as a nutter.

Maybe not mentally ill, perhaps just a bad person or not very smart.

So yes then.

That’s a very dishonest post. Your OP listed, among many others, “Brexiters and Trumpists” as nutters. Plenty of people who support either or both have perfectly acceptable political views. The majority of those who voted in the UK brexit referendum voted for Brexit. Now you are pretending you were referring to people with extreme views about Romanians.
Have you changed your position, or are you using “Romanian dole scroungers” as a strawman to cover for your realisation that your OP was silly?

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

That’s a very dishonest post. Your OP listed, among many others, “Brexiters and Trumpists” as nutters. Plenty of people who support either or both have perfectly acceptable political views. The majority of those who voted in the UK brexit referendum voted for Brexit. Now you are pretending you were referring to people with extreme views about Romanians.
Have you changed your position, or are you using “Romanian dole scroungers” as a strawman to cover for your realisation that your OP was silly?

I haven't described you as a nutter have I?

What views are you sensitive about?

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

I haven't described you as a nutter have I?

What views are you sensitive about?

Another dishonest post.

Are you going to defend your OP or are you admitting it was silly?

Nitrogan

Gravelly wrote: »

Another dishonest post.

Are you going to defend your OP or are you admitting it was silly?

Raging against the machine.

If you come up with a controversial opinion we'll have a chat.

Triangle

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Why are people who hold opposing political views to you called nutters?

People are not necessarily intolerant if they disagree with you as long as they have a valid reason for voting the way they do? And even of they dont, why do they have to justify themselves to you?

Someone once said that housing should not be an economic commodity. This is a nut idea in my opinion.
Felt like buying them a ticket to Cuba to show them what happens in states like that. But who am I to judge.....

Gravelly

Nitrogan wrote: »

Raging against the machine.

If you come up with a controversial opinion we'll have a chat.

Again with the dishonesty. To deflect from your inability to come up with an argument in defence of you OP, you try to make it about me.
Very poor stuff indeed. Your opinions are worthless if you can make no effort to defend them.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Gravelly wrote: »

Note the difference you cite yourself.

There is a common tactic by the left to label anyone who isn't completely in line with whatever this week's viewpoint is as "far right" when in fact, they are usually centrist, or centre-right.

Note the common tactic (very noticeable here on boards) of accusing anyone with any concerns whatsoever about mass immigration etc as being nazis, bigots etc. etc. etc.

I’m partly an immigration skeptic myself, but my point still stands - boards is to the right of most public ideology in Ireland.

Gravelly

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’m partly an immigration skeptic myself, but my point still stands - boards is to the right of most public ideology in Ireland.

I didn't actually mean that towards yourself - I meant on boards in general.
I think the balance of opinion on Boards (which is similar to most online fora in Ireland) reflects true public opinion very well, it is just that this opinion is not represented by mainstream media, therefore doesn't get heard.

Yer Da sells Avon

Loves_lorries wrote: »

Iona are a Catholic activist outfit, there is no evidence they are right wing on economic matters.

Their founder (David Quinn) is right-wing on economic matters, and also on immigration - tried to blame immigrants for the housing crisis this week. Big fan of Israel too, which is always a good litmus test for wingnuttery.