Second hand diesel cars slow to sell

colm_mcm

KevinCavan wrote: »

Most of these “Jeepy/ crossover/people carrier” thingies are diesel I’d imagine. The ones that are all the rage.

The VW crossover that people want right now is the T-ROC, which is kinda Golf sized. That’s selling 90% petrol : 10% diesel.

For the Tiguan, the opposite figure applies, which stands to reason IMO given it’s a bigger car.

Dravokivich

KevinCavan wrote: »

How long will it be before some politician/ city councilor will get the “brainwave,” to ban older model diesel cars from Dublin city centre?

They'll be voting themselves out of office. People living in the city need cars too.

Del2005

TimeToShine wrote: »

You are spot on but the Coke/Diet Coke analogy isn't very apt here. The latter quite literally has zero calories meaning it doesn't contribute directly to obesity and there are no scientific studies that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that aspartame causes cancer. Regular coke, as we know, is full of sugar which is proven to cause a whole host of problems. I can say with 100% certainty that Diet and Zero are "healthier" than the regular version. In this case a more relevant analogy might be the whole fat/low fat/zero fat debacle.

Using that logic the reason why diesel was pushed as "green" was because it emitted less CO2 than petrol so was good for the environment. What people choose to ignore was that everything else out of a diesel was bad for the environment and people. So what are people ignoring about artificial sweeteners, like they ignored/hid with cigs and diesel before.

KevinCavan

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/news/environment/diesel-cars-finished-will-soon-disappear-ec-warns-motorists-36956238.html

Del2005

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Is there any chance of a diesel scrappsge scheme in the budget?

That would just show how big a scam environmental issues are. These cars are made and have a significant amount of energy and pollution already released. To scrap these and replace with a new car will be terrible for the environment, but since we don't make cars all the emissions to scrap and replace a perfectly good car won't affect us!

lawred2

KevinCavan wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/budget-to-hike-fuel-cigarettes-and-hotel-vat-rate-872915.html

Who is still in receipt of mortgage interest relief?

lawred2

KevinCavan wrote: »

Most of these “Jeepy/ crossover/people carrier” thingies are diesel I’d imagine. The ones that are all the rage.

Many of the 2017/2018 City SUVs are using turbo charged 1.2 econo petrols.

KevinCavan

I’m not against diesels myself. But I can see them falling out of favour if the government slaps huge car tax on them and if their resale values become poor. If the likes of Volvo and Toyota are phasing out Diesel engines, other car manufacturers will folllow. You also hear phrases like “dirty diesel,” being used in the media, which like it or not starts conjuring a bad image for diesel cars. With all the talk or reusable coffee cups, plastic in the oceans and conservation, I think it’s trendy to own an electric car or hybrid at the moment. As others have alluded to, the diesel cars in Ireland will have little impact on global pollution in reality.

lawred2

KevinCavan wrote: »

I’m not against diesels myself. But I can see them falling out of favour if the government slaps huge car tax on them and if their resale values become poor. If the likes of Volvo and Toyota are phasing out Diesel engines, other car manufacturers will folllow. You also hear phrases like “dirty diesel,” being used in the media, which like it or not starts conjuring a bad image for diesel cars. With all the talk or reusable coffee cups, plastic in the oceans and conservation, I think it’s trendy to own an electric car or hybrid at the moment. As others have alluded to, the diesel cars in Ireland will have little impact on global pollution in reality.

Electric or hybrid isn't trendy.. they serve a purpose. They are ideal for Urban use.

Diesels also have their place. Rural/high mileage commuters/heavy load pulling or carrying

The issue is that everything goes out with the bathwater.. it's either all bad or all good.

SteM

lawred2 wrote: »

Who is still in receipt of mortgage interest relief?

We are but it's down to such a small amount that I'd imagine that the government will save a paltry amount by scrapping it.

metricspaces

bazz26 wrote: »

If you live in Dublin and work in Dublin I cannot for the life of me think why you would have ever benefited from driving a diesel

Simple. MPG was lower than similar petrol car and road tax lower.

martco

yeah, it's become another factor for sure
I have a one owner pristine paperwork vw I'm trying to move, top top spec 7 seater with leather etc. private sale
3 grand now under book value! and I'm not even getting enquiries
Its been 5 years since I tried to sell a car (I used to turn cars every 6 months so I'm no thick have done this before) but the world has changed for sure. I'm guessing Diesel + PCP trickology + Brexit is to blame
I'm almost at a point of breaking the car for parts!?

Grab All Association

lawred2 wrote: »

Electric or hybrid isn't trendy.. they serve a purpose. They are ideal for Urban use.

Diesels also have their place. Rural/high mileage commuters/heavy load pulling or carrying

The issue is that everything goes out with the bathwater.. it's either all bad or all good.

I’d be semi rural. Live in a big enough village a few miles outside Thurles and the majority of miles travelled 7 days a week is local commutes and shopping Thurles-Nenagh-Limerick-Portlaoise Clonmel etc. Neighbours would do the same miles and journeys. It really doesn’t make sense for me or them to own a diesel.

Agriculture/pulling a horse box most days a week then maybe a diesel might save you a few euros a year though my brother in law does this with a 1.6ltr petrol 2001 Almera. He went from a diesel to petrol and says he doesn’t notice any difference.

The Bishop Basher

Grab All Association wrote: »

Agriculture/pulling a horse box most days a week then maybe a diesel might save you a few euros a year though my brother in law does this with a 1.6ltr petrol 2001 Almera. He went from a diesel to petrol and says he doesn’t notice any difference.

Sorry. I'm just not buying that.

How far does he pull the horse box.

To the end of the field ?

John_Rambo

colm_mcm wrote: »

PCP is 3 years, and the guaranteed minimum future value is just that. There’s no indication that they’ll only be worth that after 3 years - as opposed to say Nissan Leafs and BMW i3s....

Also, 42% of new VWs sold this year were petrol - up from 30% last year, so nearly a 50% increase.

Don’t let the facts get in the way.....

I’m not talking about people buying petrol cars. I’m talking about the ones buying diesel cars. That’s pretty clear in my post.

Whilst there’s lots of people moving to petrol and E, the fact remains that there’s still a cohort of die-hard diesel buyers that just can’t see the writing on the wall.

Do you honestly think 182 regular diesel hatchback, SUV and saloon cars will hold value like they have been in the last ten years in the oncoming three years?

(I have a diesel 4x4 and a small petrol hatch)

bazz26

metricspaces wrote: »

Simple. MPG was lower than similar petrol car and road tax lower.

How is mpg significantly lower on a diesel used around town in stop/start short journeys though? Anytime I have to drive my diesel car around town the mpg becomes piss poor. If all my driving was in town I certainly wouldn't benefit from driving a diesel car.

colm_mcm

lawred2 wrote: »

Electric or hybrid isn't trendy.. they serve a purpose. They are ideal for Urban use..

I dunno, they have a pretty right-on kind of image?

listermint

Grab All Association wrote: »

Never stopped buying petrol saloons. Everyone (even on here) suggested I get a diesel or dee shill as it’s pronounced here in the mid west to replace my aging 2.0 Mk4 Mondeo.
Got the Octavia RS 2.0TSI very cheap to tax and insure with 123RSA. Actually I was quoted higher on a diesel Passat. Think liberty quoted me over €2000 ffs. If there wasn’t so many idiots on the road 123 would’ve done TPFT for under €400. Paying just under €800 fully comp with them. Road tax is €390. Not the only person with a RS either around here. There’s at least 2 in Thurles town centre. White and blue. Absolutely delighted to see 1.8> petrols making a comeback. Ironically cars built by VW group.

I dont think that is remotely true. Why ? Because every thread in here when Diesel is raised numerous posters will always ask 'Do you need a Diesel' 'Are you doing the mileage for one'

I have yet to see a thread that this was not the case.

I dont think its factual to say that people here were pushing Diesels on you at all.

lawred2

colm_mcm wrote: »

I dunno, they have a pretty right-on kind of image?

trend and image aren't really the same thing

pah

martco wrote: »

yeah, it's become another factor for sure
I have a one owner pristine paperwork vw I'm trying to move, top top spec 7 seater with leather etc. private sale
3 grand now under book value! and I'm not even getting enquiries
Its been 5 years since I tried to sell a car (I used to turn cars every 6 months so I'm no thick have done this before) but the world has changed for sure. I'm guessing Diesel + PCP trickology + Brexit is to blame
I'm almost at a point of breaking the car for parts!?

Hey martco, what are your selling out of interest?

metricspaces

bazz26 wrote: »

How is mpg significantly lower on a diesel used around town in stop/start short journeys though? Anytime I have to drive my diesel car around town the mpg becomes piss poor. If all my driving was in town I certainly wouldn't benefit from driving a diesel car.

Does everyone in the country drive short journeys? (definition of short in km?)

Lord Nikon

Hayes Full Stenographer wrote: »

The pound may be weak, but the fact that you'll have to fork out for VAT and Import Duty as well as VRT will wipe out any of that benefit.

OMSP would have dropped in line for most diesels too though.

rizdub

martco wrote: »

yeah, it's become another factor for sure
I have a one owner pristine paperwork vw I'm trying to move, top top spec 7 seater with leather etc. private sale
3 grand now under book value! and I'm not even getting enquiries
Its been 5 years since I tried to sell a car (I used to turn cars every 6 months so I'm no thick have done this before) but the world has changed for sure. I'm guessing Diesel + PCP trickology + Brexit is to blame
I'm almost at a point of breaking the car for parts!?

can u post a link to your ad ?

Lord Nikon

My 3 litre diesel auto isn’t worth a toss for urban driving, motorway driving is what it was built for, and average 40mpg, and it’s 11 years old. As long as they are selling big engined diesels, I’ll be here to buy them. It’s the perfect time to be haggling when buying a diesel now, as everyone is trying to sell. Dealers trying to shift diesels, as the PCPs finish, and customers buying new hybrid/petrol econo boxes.

Grab All Association

Rennaws wrote: »

Sorry. I'm just not buying that.

How far does he pull the horse box.

To the end of the field ?

From one side of Thurles to the other and the horse show type things nationwide. Don’t know anything about horses but it’s an adult/large enough horse. Typical 1980s style white mid sized type box. Trust me that car can pull it. He even transported a Stanley 90 in that box and I know this because I sold it to him. Previous vehicle he had was a 2000 Nissan Primera diesel.

bazz26

metricspaces wrote: »

Does everyone in the country drive short journeys? (definition of short in km?)

I never suggested they did. As I said in my original post that you quoted, I cannot understand how someone living and working in the likes of Dublin would benefit from a diesel, unless they spend a fair chunk of their spare time driving outside the city.

bonkers67

bazz26 wrote: »

I never suggested they did. As I said in my original post that you quoted, I cannot understand how someone living and working in the likes of Dublin would benefit from a diesel, unless they spend a fair chunk of their spare time driving outside the city.

I drove a taxi in Dublin for a few years. It was a diesel. Mostly short runs. Never had a problem with the car and it saved me a fortune compared to using a petrol.

colm_mcm

KevinCavan wrote: »

I’m not against diesels myself. But I can see them falling out of favour if the government slaps huge car tax on them and if their resale values become poor. If the likes of Volvo and Toyota are phasing out Diesel engines, other car manufacturers will folllow. You also hear phrases like “dirty diesel,” being used in the media, which like it or not starts conjuring a bad image for diesel cars. With all the talk or reusable coffee cups, plastic in the oceans and conservation, I think it’s trendy to own an electric car or hybrid at the moment. As others have alluded to, the diesel cars in Ireland will have little impact on global pollution in reality.

lawred2 wrote: »

Electric or hybrid isn't trendy.. they serve a purpose. They are ideal for Urban use.

Diesels also have their place. Rural/high mileage commuters/heavy load pulling or carrying

The issue is that everything goes out with the bathwater.. it's either all bad or all good.

colm_mcm wrote: »

I dunno, they have a pretty right-on kind of image?

lawred2 wrote: »

trend and image aren't really the same thing

What did you mean when you said trendy?

bazz26

bonkers67 wrote: »

I drove a taxi in Dublin for a few years. It was a diesel. Mostly short runs. Never had a problem with the car and it saved me a fortune compared to using a petrol.

Traditionally taxis have been diesel but plenty switched to hybrids these days.

lawred2

colm_mcm wrote: »

What did you mean when you said trendy?

Trend. As in trend. Electric vehicles are here to stay. They are not 'trendy' and soon to be replaced by the next fad or trend. Image is irrelevant.

Wildly Boaring

Grab All Association wrote: »

From one side of Thurles to the other and the horse show type things nationwide. Don’t know anything about horses but it’s an adult/large enough horse. Typical 1980s style white mid sized type box. Trust me that car can pull it. He even transported a Stanley 90 in that box and I know this because I sold it to him. Previous vehicle he had was a 2000 Nissan Primera diesel.

Yeah and his almera is probably perfectly adequate for commuting too.

Some of us in like a nicer car for that too.

I'd far prefer a diesel auto with a few horses under the bonnet for towing a horse box. Instead of tootling along holding up the whole country probably with one arm out the window and a complete inability to look in his mirrors.

BTW electric cars not worth a ****e for towing. In fact not sure a manufacturer will even put a hitch on them. Talking to a colleague few weeks ago who had to pull from deal on a Leaf after local Nissan dealer wouldn't put a hitch on it

KevinCavan

colm_mcm wrote: »

What did you mean when you said trendy?

I meant you are more likely to get a high five from a hipster if you pull up in an electric car.:-)

traco

I drive a diesel - I do 50k kms per year and I drive them into the ground as in approx 500k kms on each one I've had. I also have a petrol (fun). Current one has 275k kms and wondering if it will see me out until full EV can meet my needs or if I will need one more diesel before transition. Its a large 2.0TDi that averages around 55mpg or around 5 l/100km - thats city, M50 car park, country roads and motorway.

I do not get the cost of maintaining a diesel argument - they are cheaper than petrols to service.
Oil is oil, same with oil, air and fuel filters. Brakes = same, suspension = same. The only difference is the spark plugs and coil packs and diesel don't have them so the service cost makes no sense to me. I've yet to replace a clutch on any car. DPF, and one egr valve (€250). Lots of tyres, brake pads and shocks but they're all consumables and equal on any car irrespective of what fuel they use.

Someone buying one to run to the local shops / school run makes zero sense but thats not the fault of the diesel, they should have researched things properly. To be fair none on teh aforementioned suit that application but sadly our department of transport doesn't allow for NEVs.

If your commute suits, EV or petrol all the way. Hybrids however I remain to be convinced, they just seem complicated with no advantage one way or the other and I will be curious to see what happens with them and VRT rates in January with the new testing regs.

It all seems sensationalist to me - buy the right tool for the job, each one makes total sense in the right application. Sadly though it seems the majority of the buyers can't do any real research or analysis and just go with trends.

So to summarize - buy the right car for your needs and forget the blanket statements because one size does not fit all.

traco

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

BTW electric cars not worth a ****e for towing. In fact not sure a manufacturer will even put a hitch on them. Talking to a colleague few weeks ago who had to pull from deal on a Leaf after local Nissan dealer wouldn't put a hitch on it

Only two rated for half decent towing - the Tesla Model X and the new Mercedes electric SUV whatever it is. I don't know about the Tesla but the Merc is rated to tow 1750kg so OK if a car alternative but only 50% of a proper tow vehicle would be but at least they demonstrate a move towards towing as a need. Sadly though neither are remotely affordable.

colm_mcm

KevinCavan wrote: »

I meant you are more likely to get a high five from a hipster if you pull up in an electric car.:-)

That’s what I though you meant

Paranoid Mandroid

Jasus it's hard to know what's right. I drive a 407 2 litre diesel, 75kms per day, mostly motorway from celbridge to cherrywood but outside of rush hours. Must say the comfort of a large engine is worth the few bob extra. Diesel or petrol ?

colm_mcm

Paranoid Mandroid wrote: »

Jasus it's hard to know what's right. I drive a 407 2 litre diesel, 75kms per day, mostly motorway from celbridge to cherrywood but outside of rush hours. Must say the comfort of a large engine is worth the few bob extra. Diesel or petrol ?

Drive it on.

metricspaces

bazz26 wrote: »

I never suggested they did. As I said in my original post that you quoted, I cannot understand how someone living and working in the likes of Dublin would benefit from a diesel, unless they spend a fair chunk of their spare time driving outside the city.

You are revising your statement to limit it to "the city" now? Quite clearly your original post mentioned Dublin which is a county:

bazz26 wrote: »

If you live in Dublin and work in Dublin I cannot for the life of me think why you would have ever benefited from driving a diesel

So here you are saying people who live and work in Dublin could not, and do not, drive sufficient distances that make a diesel more economical than a petrol?

I think if you look at the size of Dublin and the distance one must drive in order for a diesel to be more economical it will be clear to you why people buy diesel.

Quite clearly you are posting based on a personal opinion that is not based on any facts.

Del2005

Grab All Association wrote: »

From one side of Thurles to the other and the horse show type things nationwide. Don’t know anything about horses but it’s an adult/large enough horse. Typical 1980s style white mid sized type box. Trust me that car can pull it. He even transported a Stanley 90 in that box and I know this because I sold it to him. Previous vehicle he had was a 2000 Nissan Primera diesel.

Any car can pull a heavy trailer, it's if it's rated to tow it is the question and a full size horse box would be over most cars tow limits.

bazz26

metricspaces wrote: »

You are revising your statement to limit it to "the city" now? Quite clearly your original post mentioned Dublin which is a county:



So here you are saying people who live and work in Dublin could not, and do not, drive sufficient distances that make a diesel more economical than a petrol?

I think if you look at the size of Dublin and the distance one must drive in order for a diesel to be more economical it will be clear to you why people buy diesel.

Quite clearly you are posting based on a personal opinion that is not based on any facts.

Bit of a strawman argument. You knew exactly what I was getting at but you have decided to be pedantic around geography.

Anyway I couldn't be arsed, I'm out. #threadunsubscribe

SozBbz

I think the point of people independantly assessing their own needs before buying is important. Why would you trust a car dealer? They'll just sell whatever they're taregted against.

I do think diesel is going to drop off a cliff, but there will be a core cohort of diesel drivers for whom it makes sense to remain on diesel who will probably get some good deals second hand. In return they may face higher running costs due to taxes.

I do think its the end of the line for people buying diesel for no reason. I've bought 3 cars from new since 2010, all petrol. Everytime, had people ask me why I didnt buy diesel "because everyone knows diesel is better". I live in the suburbs. I drive around town and to local shops etc. I have the ocasional long journey, but not that often. I average no more than 15k per annum.

My car right now is a VW TRoc with a 1.5 TSI engine. 150 BHP. Dealer (family friend) told me that he's been out the door with people buying the 1L petrol, and his dealership is in the midlands. In fact, all 181 T Rocs that you see are petrols, VW only introduced a diesel option for 182. Tide is turning.

Amouar

I recently bought my first car to be used mostly on weekends for family trips (Taking public transport to go to work during the week).

The weekend trips are mostly on the motorway and are on average 100 km round trip therefore I choose to buy a Diesel. This means that the annual mileage will be less than 10k km per year but I think that a Diesel car is still fine as it's mostly on long journeys.

The car is a 2013 Diesel therefore the fact that the car is only used on weekend shouldn't be a problem based on the reseacrches I did before buying it.

metricspaces

bazz26 wrote: »

You knew exactly what I was getting at but you have decided to be pedantic around geography.

I read quite clearly what you wrote - that it made no sense for people who live and work in Dublin to buy a diesel. Clearly you are incorrect and tried to rewrite history to make it sound less incorrect.

People cannot read your mind as to "what you were getting at". If you meant something different than you wrote then rather than throw your toys out of the pram simply articulate yourself better.

As traco pointed out "buy the right tool for the job". For certain people living and working in Dublin a diesel is most definitely the right tool.

CrankyHaus

There is value in going against public opinion.

A few years ago fuel was a lot cheaper than now while diesel was king. Second hand petrols could be picked up cheap and cost less to run.

Now at the same time as fuel is up, and set to rise both internationally and domestically with Paschal's much heralded carbon tax hikes, diesels have lost their lustre and can be bought at a good price.

If you're doing the mileage to justify a diesel car then you'll probably get poor resale value on any car after a few years because most Irish people won't look at anything over 100,000 miles. So it's a good time to buy diesel if you do the driving to justify one. It was never really a good time to buy one if you didn't.

KevinCavan

https://m.independent.ie/business/budget/diesel-coal-and-cigarettes-everything-we-know-about-budget-2019-so-far-37375162.html

martco

pah wrote: »

Hey martco, what are your selling out of interest?

2010 Touran 2.0TDI (facelift, has the bkd engine & bigger turbo, its a brute & nippy tank)

If it was a golf I'd hold onto it forever, 7 seater just makes no sense for my family scenario anymore. still not a single bite on the car and it's near Grade A as you'll see for a family motor, amazing to me nobody is interested.

one other move would be to keep it & turn it into a sleeper/project car - have read about ABT Touran's in Germany lowered on 19's (not sure mrs would permit tho)

pah

martco wrote: »

2010 Touran 2.0TDI (facelift, has the bkd engine & bigger turbo, its a brute & nippy tank)

If it was a golf I'd hold onto it forever, 7 seater just makes no sense for my family scenario anymore. still not a single bite on the car and it's near Grade A as you'll see for a family motor, amazing to me nobody is interested.

one other move would be to keep it & turn it into a sleeper/project car - have read about ABT Touran's in Germany lowered on 19's (not sure mrs would permit tho)

Is it the motortax VS the 1.6 alternatives? Great looking car in fairness. Have you tried putting on donedeal?

JJJJNR

CrankyHaus wrote: »

There is value in going against public opinion.

A few years ago fuel was a lot cheaper than now while diesel was king. Second hand petrols could be picked up cheap and cost less to run.

Now at the same time as fuel is up, and set to rise both internationally and domestically with Paschal's much heralded carbon tax hikes, diesels have lost their lustre and can be bought at a good price.

If you're doing the mileage to justify a diesel car then you'll probably get poor resale value on any car after a few years because most Irish people won't look at anything over 100,000 miles. So it's a good time to buy diesel if you do the driving to justify one. It was never really a good time to buy one if you didn't.

Amen bro! You just need to look at the bangernomics thread to see where the real value is, picked up a 07 octavia estate Tdi for 850! it even had a new clutch. its amazing what a bit of scaremongering does to the market. Yet theres no mention of a beef tax! which is by far more detrimental to the environment. I'm waiting for a 335d to hit bangernomics money next year...! :cool:

MayoSalmon

I live in Dublin and I drive Diesel. I will continue to do so until the pocket suggests otherwise.

W123-80's

bazz26 wrote: »

What's really sheepish is the ejits who go out and buy what large corporations, the media and public opinion plant in their minds as what they should buy. 10 years ago it was diesels, now it's hybrids and EVs, sheep need to be guided either way on how they spend their money. Why didn't people shun diesels 5 or 6 years ago? Because diesel wasn't a dirty word back then, all that has changed is public opinion, along with large corporations whose main objective is to sell vehicles and governments whose main objective is generating tax revenue from people who buy and own vehicles.

It's a bit like Coke Zero or Diet Coke versus regular Coke. A lot of people drink Coke Zero/Diet Coke because they think it's better than regular Coke, no sugar and all that. The reality is that Coke Zero/Diet Coke has additives in it to make it taste nice which are probably as bad if not worse than the sugar in regular Coke. Thing is though the sheep feel better and made think they are doing the right thing because it's sugar free.

Nail on the head Bazz